HdTyvek
Smash Journeyman
fox is worse than melee, better than brawl. i think he will be an ok character once he gets torn apart and figured out what is good
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Is Fox's reign over?
- Thread starter HdTyvek
- Start date
Rhus
We're going top speed!
If he's better than Brawl he will end up being high-mid or High tier. Brawl Fox was really, really solid. People just whine about Fox even they know nothing about him.
RPK
Smash Lord
The only characters that were holding Fox back in Brawl were Pikachu and ICs with their CGs. CGs are gone now :3 Also, Im glad to hear that Fox's upsmash got reverted back to what it was in Brawl.
Ryu Myuutsu
Smash Champion
I can live with that.
HdTyvek
Smash Journeyman
Falco is pretty much the same deal, people cant decide if he is good or bad, alot of nerfs to what he was like before, but some other things are strong.
M@v
Subarashii!
If he's better than brawl, you got no worries. He was still a high tier in brawl (albeit a low-end high tier), but was still viable outside 2 or 3 really, REALLY dumb matchups.
Ravestickman
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2014
- Messages
- 73
- NNID
- Ravestickman
So, Fox HAS been nerfed? Great, I mained him in brawl :/ Looks like it's time to use megaman ((I kind of intended on using Megaman anyway)) or DHD in the next game.... I hope Fox hasn't been nerfed as bad as people say he is.
Ravestickman
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2014
- Messages
- 73
- NNID
- Ravestickman
You have no idea how happy that makes me to read that.
Super Fighting Robot
Smash Cadet
One of us One of us
M@v
Subarashii!
Once I get my hands on the game I should be able to tell you fairly quickly his pros and cons relative to his brawl self. Melee self he won't be that good; I can tell you that right now without touching the game.
HdTyvek
Smash Journeyman
RPK
Smash Lord
Hey M@v!!! :3
NeonBurrito
Smash Ace
ALRIGHT
My information in my previous post was from the E3 demo, so don't take it word for word. Anyway, MIOM did a little overview on a majority of the characters, and here's their overview of Fox. The article is a really good read, so I recommend checking it out.
Good aerials. Nair seems to have little knockback and has very little lag on it. Fair is easier to get multiple hitboxes, with more hitstun, damage and lag on it. Dair has more hitstun and virtually no landing lag as well. Bair has a different animation but feels the same. Uair also feels the same as well.
Tilts are good. Ftilt is fast and is great for poking. Utilt combos into anything really, not much cooldown lag and it has good hitstun for combo potential. Dtilt feels different, but it doesn’t look that way. Still good to set up combos and may possibly have a tripping effect to it as well. Dash attack is still quick and his jabs are incredible, great for interrupting momentum and a good way to start a combo.
Fox’s grabs have changed a little bit. Dthrow was set knockback now and bounces them off of the floor which makes for good combo follow ups with fair and nair. Uthrow seems to send them higher as well. Fthrow and bthrow feel unchanged.
His smash attacks are also pretty strong. Dsmash is a bit slow now but it still has damage and knockback. Fsmash is a bit faster now as well and and isnt as risky to use. Usmash feels the same as Brawl as well.
His special moves feel similar to Brawl. Upb feels the same in regards to distance and hitstun. The shine is a bit faster than Brawl, but has the same properties other than some landing lag at the end. Sideb has changed a bit, it goes a little bit short now but you can SD with it if you are grounded. Some landing lag on it also. Lasers are still good, easy to spam and not too much lag on them.
Overall, Fox is really good. Very fast in the air, very fast on the ground. He has a superior combo game and can be played with multiple styles. Only thing is that it’s not as easy to get kills with him now due to the new ledge mechanics, but he still can do a lot of work.
Tilts are good. Ftilt is fast and is great for poking. Utilt combos into anything really, not much cooldown lag and it has good hitstun for combo potential. Dtilt feels different, but it doesn’t look that way. Still good to set up combos and may possibly have a tripping effect to it as well. Dash attack is still quick and his jabs are incredible, great for interrupting momentum and a good way to start a combo.
Fox’s grabs have changed a little bit. Dthrow was set knockback now and bounces them off of the floor which makes for good combo follow ups with fair and nair. Uthrow seems to send them higher as well. Fthrow and bthrow feel unchanged.
His smash attacks are also pretty strong. Dsmash is a bit slow now but it still has damage and knockback. Fsmash is a bit faster now as well and and isnt as risky to use. Usmash feels the same as Brawl as well.
His special moves feel similar to Brawl. Upb feels the same in regards to distance and hitstun. The shine is a bit faster than Brawl, but has the same properties other than some landing lag at the end. Sideb has changed a bit, it goes a little bit short now but you can SD with it if you are grounded. Some landing lag on it also. Lasers are still good, easy to spam and not too much lag on them.
Overall, Fox is really good. Very fast in the air, very fast on the ground. He has a superior combo game and can be played with multiple styles. Only thing is that it’s not as easy to get kills with him now due to the new ledge mechanics, but he still can do a lot of work.
So, the TL;DR rundown:
Aerials - good, have more landing lag / damage / stun, but not too much
Tilts - really good, they have combo ability, hitstun, and speed
Grabs - better than brawl, more knockback + combo ability
Smashes - better and worse, d-smash is slower, f-smash is faster
Specials - really Brawl-like
Verdict - Fox is fast, has a great combo game and can be played differently, but can't kill as easily due to new ledge mechanics.
It seems like Fox has gotten buffed, and where he got nerfed, it's just his play style not adjusting to Sm4sh. The thing is, learning a new way to use characters isn't impossible, but having a weak character isn't as easy.
So, Fox is pretty good in Sm4sh.
> >
Last edited:
HdTyvek
Smash Journeyman
this is great, thanks for this!ALRIGHT
My information in my previous post was from the E3 demo, so don't take it word for word. Anyway, MIOM did a little overview on a majority of the characters, and here's their overview of Fox. The article is a really good read, so I recommend checking it out.
Good aerials. Nair seems to have little knockback and has very little lag on it. Fair is easier to get multiple hitboxes, with more hitstun, damage and lag on it. Dair has more hitstun and virtually no landing lag as well. Bair has a different animation but feels the same. Uair also feels the same as well.
Tilts are good. Ftilt is fast and is great for poking. Utilt combos into anything really, not much cooldown lag and it has good hitstun for combo potential. Dtilt feels different, but it doesn’t look that way. Still good to set up combos and may possibly have a tripping effect to it as well. Dash attack is still quick and his jabs are incredible, great for interrupting momentum and a good way to start a combo.
Fox’s grabs have changed a little bit. Dthrow was set knockback now and bounces them off of the floor which makes for good combo follow ups with fair and nair. Uthrow seems to send them higher as well. Fthrow and bthrow feel unchanged.
His smash attacks are also pretty strong. Dsmash is a bit slow now but it still has damage and knockback. Fsmash is a bit faster now as well and and isnt as risky to use. Usmash feels the same as Brawl as well.
His special moves feel similar to Brawl. Upb feels the same in regards to distance and hitstun. The shine is a bit faster than Brawl, but has the same properties other than some landing lag at the end. Sideb has changed a bit, it goes a little bit short now but you can SD with it if you are grounded. Some landing lag on it also. Lasers are still good, easy to spam and not too much lag on them.
Overall, Fox is really good. Very fast in the air, very fast on the ground. He has a superior combo game and can be played with multiple styles. Only thing is that it’s not as easy to get kills with him now due to the new ledge mechanics, but he still can do a lot of work.
So, the TL;DR rundown:
Aerials - good, have more landing lag / damage / stun, but not too much
Tilts - really good, they have combo ability, hitstun, and speed
Grabs - better than brawl, more knockback + combo ability
Smashes - better and worse, d-smash is slower, f-smash is faster
Specials - really Brawl-like
Verdict - Fox is fast, has a great combo game and can be played differently, but can't kill as easily due to new ledge mechanics.
It seems like Fox has gotten buffed, and where he got nerfed, it's just his play style not adjusting to Sm4sh. The thing is, learning a new way to use characters isn't impossible, but having a weak character isn't as easy.
So, Fox is pretty good in Sm4sh.
Roxas215
Smash Lord
He was no where near top tier in brawl. I actually think he's gonna be better in this game then he was in brawl due to better combos and better recovery. Yes his projectile was nerfed but so was alot of vets(Peach,Diddy,Mario,Link etc) All of them either have projectile nerfs or lag out of sh projectile so Fox isn't the only one here)
Fox looks ALOT better then falco at the moment.
Fox looks ALOT better then falco at the moment.
RPK
Smash Lord
Actually if it wasnt for ICs and Pikachu Fox would top tier character in brawl.
Ravestickman
Smash Cadet
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- NNID
- Ravestickman
M@v
Subarashii!
Fox arguably has a buff on lasers though because he can have stun lasers now via custom movesets.
Last edited:
Ravestickman
Smash Cadet
- Joined
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- Ravestickman
Roxas215
Smash Lord
Gerpington
Smash Journeyman
This is very true, but fox's custom moves are particularly note worthy, in my opinion.
HdTyvek
Smash Journeyman
guess it comes down to if custom moves are allowed in tournaments
Gerpington
Smash Journeyman
Basically. I personally don't see why they can't be, but I guess only time will tell.
HdTyvek
Smash Journeyman
alot of things are troubling the TO's, but things can always change as time goes on, just like how the west coast used to use items during early melee tournaments
Gerpington
Smash Journeyman
Oh dear....yeah I don't think anyone is really upset with the items being banned, but custom moves aren't as random it just makes a character slightly less predictable...which isn't exactly a bad thing. It adds depth. Depth is usually good.
Roxas215
Smash Lord
The main complaint is the grind it takes to unlock them all. It's day 5 and i still dont think any of the streamers has all 500+ moves yet. Not to mention there doesn't seem to be any set way to unlock certain moves. So if your like me where you only plan on playing 2-3 characters yet you have to deal with unlocking worthless custom moves your never going to use it gets time consuimg
And we still have no idea at all how custom moves will be unlocked on the wii u version either. I think there is very few people against custom moves themselves. But to expect everyone to grind it out for all 500+ moves is really delusional.
And we still have no idea at all how custom moves will be unlocked on the wii u version either. I think there is very few people against custom moves themselves. But to expect everyone to grind it out for all 500+ moves is really delusional.
Gerpington
Smash Journeyman
I do agree with this complaint, but I saw in one of the topics the idea that custom moves be allowed on the 3ds and not allowed when played on the wiiu version. That way if players want to use them they have to unlock them for themselves and everything is set and ready to go when the matches start (since you should already have the set up you use loaded up and selectable on the character select.
Roxas215
Smash Lord
If custom moves are allowed then they should deftinley be allowed on the wii u. 3DS version will be the far inferior version once the wii u version drop just based of the horrid 3ds controls.
Gerpington
Smash Journeyman
Then I guess we'll have to see. And it was a given it was going to be the better version. It is on a console after all. I don't really mind the 3ds version controls though (judging from the demo)
Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
M@v
Subarashii!
You can always just use a master save file on an SD card at a tourney with everything unlocked on the wii u version so you have access to all the moves.
Gerpington
Smash Journeyman
M@v
Subarashii!
ITs moreso for the early stages; after the games out a bit you put a rule in place saying to make sure you're setup has all custom stages on it, or it can't be used. Its a reasonable expectation for users to have the moves unlocked after x amount of time.
HdTyvek
Smash Journeyman
-JD-
Smash Rookie
the metagame is too undeveloped at this time to judge. Sure, a few of his moves have been nerfed but like everyone else on the roster he's received a huge buff to recovery and is no longer destroyed by chaingrabs. Not saying he's going to be top tier but it seems most of his flaws from Brawl have been ironed out, not to mention fsmash seems to be slightly buffed.
Gerpington
Smash Journeyman
As long as top tier isn't all space animals and swords I'll be happy.
HdTyvek
Smash Journeyman
Im interested to see where the meta game go's as time goes on. also excited to see where all the characters land on tier lists.