Guide Intro To Samus + Character Match-Up's

[AIDS]

Whoa.

I'm sure the guide was pretty good for its time, but honestly, it's 2008 metagame, in the end.

A lot of the advice is outdated.

Some of it is out dated, but a lot is still accurate also. I will start to make changes soon, but I need to get involved in smash at the extent I used too.
The advanced techniques apply all the same, the only thing that maybe should be changed are the match ups.

I am also keeping bragging rights at the fact this is the only 5 star Samus thread, that shows some sort of success, plus it is a sticky! =)

 

[Corigames]

I wanted to throw out a few questions to see what the general populace thinks about these scenarios:
A)
Sheik has just grabbed the edge while you are on the stage close enough that an up tilt could hit her when the invincibility wears off. How would you position yourself in anticipation of her attempt to get up from the edge?
B)
When playing against Falco, it has become evident that, no matter how quickly you FF the screw attack, that Falco can hit you with an illusion which can lead into tech chasing or comboing. Is anyone else encountering this, or is it an AZ only thing?
C)
You sit down to play and the other person chooses Peach. What do you do?

Though I'm playing now more than I have before in the past few years, I want to put a finger to the pulse of the Samus community and see what you guys think on some of this.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

A. Yes. Regardless of what she does on the ledge you will be able to hit her. If she ledgehops and tries to fair, f-smash that ****.

B. Never happened to be, but **** falco.

C. Cry a little inside

 

[Pi]

just go marth lol

 

[zDuck]

I wanted to throw out a few questions to see what the general populace thinks about these scenarios:
A)
Sheik has just grabbed the edge while you are on the stage close enough that an up tilt could hit her when the invincibility wears off. How would you position yourself in anticipation of her attempt to get up from the edge?
B)
When playing against Falco, it has become evident that, no matter how quickly you FF the screw attack, that Falco can hit you with an illusion which can lead into tech chasing or comboing. Is anyone else encountering this, or is it an AZ only thing?
C)
You sit down to play and the other person chooses Peach. What do you do?

Though I'm playing now more than I have before in the past few years, I want to put a finger to the pulse of the Samus community and see what you guys think on some of this.

A) back up in anticipation for shino stall + waveland onto stage , i don't think any sheik would just hang on the ledge and wait

B) don't up-B unless you know for sure that there is gonna be a platform there for you, screw attack on FD sucks *** against falco

C) get ready to shoot a lot of projectiles

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

I wanted to throw out a few questions to see what the general populace thinks about these scenarios:
A)
Sheik has just grabbed the edge while you are on the stage close enough that an up tilt could hit her when the invincibility wears off. How would you position yourself in anticipation of her attempt to get up from the edge?
B)
When playing against Falco, it has become evident that, no matter how quickly you FF the screw attack, that Falco can hit you with an illusion which can lead into tech chasing or comboing. Is anyone else encountering this, or is it an AZ only thing?
C)
You sit down to play and the other person chooses Peach. What do you do?

Though I'm playing now more than I have before in the past few years, I want to put a finger to the pulse of the Samus community and see what you guys think on some of this.

A - I don't think there's a definite answer to this, it's a mix-up game and I would choose based on what I knew about the player. Aggressive? Run up -> wd back utilt or ftilt in anticipation of a ledge hop fair, or run up to the very edge -> shield and then nair out of shield after the (hopefully high/rising) fair can also work. Old school proclivities? Hang out on the ground and mess with my position, then try to react to the ledge stand/getup attack/roll. Techy-defensive? Predict their ledgewavedash into shield (they're expecting a now-poorly-spaced attack from you for a free shield grab) and just grab them, preferably pivoted.

B - Platforms. Land on them sometimes, fall through them sometimes, try to ledgecancel always.

C - Ban FD or Dreamland 64, watch as they ban the one I didn't, and exchange a brief, knowing laugh. Or, if I feel like some intimidation factor/name dropping, talk about how the only Peach I'll play willingly on those stages is Mike G.

 

[Pi]

why FD? i usually like FD vs. peach
not more than BF/stadium
but it's never struck me as something tough to deal with

 

[zDuck]

I love FD vs. peach, I usually take off yoshi's first and then watch where we go

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Stop changing your name. 3 =/= Pi
And I just feel like Peach inherently has more options/mixups on flat ground, but doesn't gain anywhere near as many from platforms as Samus does. Plus platforms give you some cover from the arch of a turnip throw.

But I say that, then watch my most recent set vs a good Peach (KOS-MOS), and realize that my win/#games record by stage was:
YS - 1/4
BF - 1/2
FoD - 2/3
DK64 - 0/2
PS - 1/1
FD - 2/2

So the two flatter stages that I tend to avoid (Stadium, FD) I won on every time, whereas on my standby 3-platform stages (Yoshi's, Battlefield, Fountain) I lost more than half the time... Hmmm. Oh well, doing inexplicable things that are actually bad for me isn't exactly out of character for me.

 

[Pluplue]

lol pi

knihT, Superwavedash, 3, Rocklee, Pi.

just pick a name goddammit

 

[Pi]

pi's a good name :D

jack FD takes away your ability to waveland unnecessarily on platforms so that's prolly why you did better lol

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

....your face is unnecessary.

 

[Pluplue]

YOUR face is unnecessary

 

[Pi]

whoa guys calm down, no need to get violent

 

[Corigames]

Samus
10Samus

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

YOUR face is unnecessary

Unnecessarily pretty, maybe.

 

[Violence]

A. My favorite thing to do is to run up to the edge of ledgehop forward air range, wd back, then dash forward to that exact distance and wd back again, repeat. It does a good job of covering options and applying pressure. If they stay on the edge too long, I find that I can take one more step forward, dash cancel dsmash and hit them off the ledge.

But then again, I'm trash at that matchup.

B. Holy **** why are you on FD vs Falco!?!?!?!?!?

"And you don't even have to ask twice, ban that **** next time, if you want some advice."

C. I would ban DL, hope to go FD, and remind myself to charge my shot to apply pressure.

 

[Corigames]

Just because a stage has platforms doesn't mean you'll UpB from a place that can use them every time or most times without getting punished...

 

[Pi]

you can if u camp those positions on the stage lol

 

[bubbaking]

C - Ban FD or Dreamland 64, watch as they ban the one I didn't, and exchange a brief, knowing laugh. Or, if I feel like some intimidation factor/name dropping, talk about how the only Peach I'll play willingly on those stages is Mike G.

To be honest, I even prefer Dreamland 64 over FD. I feel like Samus being the 3rd heaviest character in the game gives her more room for error on this stage than what Peach has. Not to mention, I don't have to worry too much about uair killing me thru the low platforms. Even if Samus can't recover high every time, there's enough space off stage for Samus to decently mix up her recovery and make it back w/ minimal damage.

I love FD vs. peach, I usually take off yoshi's first and then watch where we go

Nah man, I see Yoshi's as one of Samus's staple stages. I may have just picked that up from watching HugS counterpick it in a couple of his matches, but I truly believe that Samus has a much easier time comboing and killing Peach on Yoshi's than Peach has killing Samus (3rd heaviest character) and Peach doesn't really kill up the top so I'm good there.

Just because a stage has platforms doesn't mean you'll UpB from a place that can use them every time or most times without getting punished...

Well, actually, against Peach you kinda can. Her dj is THAT bad at chasing vertically. It's kinda like Samus trying to chase someone horizontally...but worse, much worse. For a Peach to punish Samus's upB, she'd probably have to upB herself....now what would the point of that be?

 

[Sinji]

What does samus have to worry about against fox?

 

[Moooose]

losing the match

 

[Corigames]

Nair/Bair spam. Get hit once, get hit 5 more times.
Shine -> Upsmash
When recovering, he'll try to shine your grapple

Aside form that, what moose said.

 

[bubbaking]

Wow, you guys have no faith in Samus. It's only a 6:4 MU! Not a major disadvantage, IMO. (-_-) Anyway, Samus has to watch out for everything Corey said. Also, Fox's shield pressure is a big deal for any character, even Samus. I say that because yes, Samus can upB through pretty much anything Fox tries to trap her with barring the shine, but if you miss or screw up, it could very well mean a free usmash or uair from Fox, which in many cases equates to death. One last thing is that their dash attack can combo into uair at mid to high %'s if you aren't expecting it.

Edit: Not exactly sure about the dash attack>uair combo, but if someone could add confirmation, it would help w/ my own experience.

 

[Pi]

^i don't think anyone was saying it was a major disadvantage lol

 

[bubbaking]

losing the match

You're right. Maybe I was hasty and this wasn't saying that Samus is at a major disadvantage. However, worrying about losing can cause it to happen, according to what psychology classes have taught us.

 

[Corigames]

I think it's more along the line of:
Fox really shouldn't win, just don't lose : D

 

[bubbaking]

Lolz, I see. Hey, can anyone give tips on how to fight the Samus vs. Doc MU? Surprisingly, I have more trouble w/ this than with Ganon and Jiggs. :-s

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Doc is such an annoying MU.

When he is on the ledge their invincible waveland can be a pain in the ***. I noticed that getting real close, WD back grab stops it for the most part...

 

[Corigames]

Use tilts like Marth would his sword against Doc. Try playing against someone as doc and don't let them do anything by constantly U and F tiling Up, straight, and low and get a feel for it. Watch out for his bair, his Fair, and Fsmash since all of those are strong attacks. If he shoots pills off the edge while you are dieing off the bottom, you can rising grapple into them and then up B (Normally the UpB goes through it and you don't get as much height).
Peach, Y.L/Link, IC's, Sheik, etc players sometimes like to throw stuff at you while you are dieing, if you think you are going to die anyway, try to rising grapple into it and UpB afterward and just see how high you can get.
You shouldn't be afraid of the cape as far as your projectiles go, you just need to aware that he can use it, the reflecting part is almost immediate even if the animation doesn't have the cape moving yet, and last for a long time after he's swung it. It's best to use your projectiles minimally anyway, since your hand-to-hand is strong in this one.

 

[bubbaking]

I see. Yes, I kinda figured that tilts would work. My biggest probs were that the Marios (yes, I fight both Mario and Doc) would crouch cancel my stuff and return w/ dsmash. >.< Also, they would spam cape a lot and even if it didn't reflect projectiles, it would screw me over, especially when I shielded or CC'd. How about Mario? Does the MU against him change any from that against Doc?

 

[Corigames]

I think Doc's cape hits lower than regular Mario's and, therefore, can punish non-sweetspots harder but can get hit in the face easier. Doc's Nair does more damage and knockback the longer it's out. If you tilt him, you should be out of Dsmash range and if he WD forward into it you should be able to light shield to stop from getting hit by that, the dash attack, or an fsmash.

 

[bubbaking]

So basically, Doc is a bigger threat. Thanks for the help!

 

[vadgama]

I played a Peach recently. Their dSmash hit me while I was on the ground and she was on a platform 0_o. Anytime I get too close she does d-smash. It seems like I can space an f-tilt where she can't reach me with her dSmash but most of the time I find myself constantly keeping my distance with spacing tilts and if she gets too close I up-B. Is there anything else I can do against her d-Smash? Sometimes I can shield through it.

Do you think I could probably light shield through it and do some sort of follow up?

 

[Violence]

shffl dair

 

[Corigames]

Extenduuuuuuuuuuuuur

 

[Violence]

u tilt

 

[GunPunch]

grab? sometimes it works to grab spammers/predicable players

 

[vadgama]

shffl dair

If I shffl over a peach that's doing her dSmash I feel like I'm going to get hit by it still.

Extenduuuuuuuuuuuuur

grab? sometimes it works to grab spammers/predicable players

Extendur/Grab might work, but he only does it when I'm close enough for him to hit me. I could try faking him out with wavedashes and dash dances but I think the better bet would be to space f-tilts. I'm not to sure if u-tilt has the range or is fast enough to hit him with. It seems like f-tilt barely has the range to hit him and not take damage while he's doing the dsmash.

 

[Violence]

Ok... well you don't have to fast fall then, you can just like... sh dair, and if you're still scared, shff nair won't trade.