Intensive training

[MugiwaraYonkou]

Hello

I´m not sure if this is the right place to post this but here i come.

Where i live, Smash scene is the biggest one there is (talking about fighting games) however this scene has been ruled by a group of guys (i would refer them as...the group or something).

This group is formed by some pretty good players, but their attitude is kind of nasty, they laugh at "noobs", and they do that kind of stuff (i find this kinda hard to explain, english isn´t my native lenguage). They´re good players but bad people.

But there´s more in their lack of sportmanship, let´s say there´s a toruney, in semi finals a pair of guys from the group must fight each other, meanwhile in the other fight, a Olimar player won. So these guys in the group let their best Marth player, so he can counterpick against such Olimar.

They´ve won plenty of tourneys that way.

I would like to become a really good player, i think it would be harder for them to cheat this way, if there are more good player outside their group. So, why do i bring this problem here to a Ness forum?

Well, i main Ness, and maybe it would be easier to become "pretty good" if i tried maining some Top tier character, like Olimar, Diddy, or something alike, but i really love Ness, i love playing him so i want to be able to win against the group...but not without Ness.

I hope i´ve made my point clear so...basically i´m here looking for someone to train me, i´m actually working on learning all the AT´s and i´m reading everything on the forums but i think i lack some experience or something.

Thank you for reading, and sorry if i posted in the wrong place.

 

[Eagleye893]

Hello

I´m not sure if this is the right place to post this but here i come.

Where i live, Smash scene is the biggest one there is (talking about fighting games) however this scene has been ruled by a group of guys (i would refer them as...the group or something).

This group is formed by some pretty good players, but their attitude is kind of nasty, they laugh at "noobs", and they do that kind of stuff (i find this kinda hard to explain, english isn´t my native lenguage). They´re good players but bad people.

But there´s more in their lack of sportmanship, let´s say there´s a toruney, in semi finals a pair of guys from the group must fight each other, meanwhile in the other fight, a Olimar player won. So these guys in the group let their best Marth player, so he can counterpick against such Olimar.

They´ve won plenty of tourneys that way.

I would like to become a really good player, i think it would be harder for them to cheat this way, if there are more good player outside their group. So, why do i bring this problem here to a Ness forum?

Well, i main Ness, and maybe it would be easier to become "pretty good" if i tried maining some Top tier character, like Olimar, Diddy, or something alike, but i really love Ness, i love playing him so i want to be able to win against the group...but not without Ness.

I hope i´ve made my point clear so...basically i´m here looking for someone to train me, i´m actually working on learning all the AT´s and i´m reading everything on the forums but i think i lack some experience or something.

Thank you for reading, and sorry if i posted in the wrong place.

Hello there! Welcome to SmashBoards and more specifically the ness boards!

I essentially quit a long time ago, but I know a bit about this kind of stuff and some crazy stupid things that ness can do that you might want to take note of.


First of all, I've gotta ask you: are one of the people from this group hosting the tournaments that you're attending, or is it someone else running it? If it's someone else, I would highly suggest telling them about that form of bracket rigging that they're doing so that they can prevent it from happening in the future. Getting to know a bunch of people in your local smash community well will prove very helpful if you want to become less ridiculed, and the best place to start is the TO's

Second, the idea about you wanting to learn more about Ness. Just to give you a warning, Ness takes a while to get used to a bunch of his moveset and there are quite a few relatively good counters to him (D3, DK, Falco, Marth, MK, etc.) that you will need to know how to beat. For that, I recommend looking around for the matchup discussions on each of the characters in other threads and learning what the strengths and weaknesses are for you.
Learning all the ATs and mechanics of the game, just generally committing it to memory so you know what it is and who can do what, is the first step towards being able to out-play your opponents, because a bunch of ATs can span across several different characters. For example, when going up against a Diddy, he'll use a bunch of crazy throwing skills and MOST of them you can do the same (also, Ness DJC throw bananas). Being able to perform all the basic wide-spread ATs without needing to try too hard is the first step.
Knowing what other characters are capable of is an absolute necessity if you want to start doing well in this game, and for this reason alone I HIGHLY suggest picking up a secondary. In looking to master more characters than just ness in your gameplay, you add to your repertoire of knowing the mind of a [x-character]-main and what their goals are during a game.
Next is knowing Ness and his moveset. People play Ness differently. I play him in a weird way and it's difficult to describe, but I tend to poke at shields and the opponent in many different ways as quickly as possible while maneuvering around safe areas. With this, I use a couple of different moves which, if used properly, are SUPER safe:

DAir can be auto-canceled on the ground if you land it just after the hitting frames are finished, so learn how to time the landing and you can do some crazy DAir landing shenanigans. At early percents, if you connect a solid DAir that pops them up, you can follow with UAir or NAir almost all the time. If you spike them into the ground and they don't tech, you can do a Jab Lock, which is another key thing you need to know about Ness.
PK Fire can have it's later aerial lag canceled if you input an aerial, jump or air-dodge at a certain time. With this, I poke at my opponent with a Full-Hopped PK Fire and either land with an airdodge or do some crazy aerial shenanigans depending on whether or not the pillar of fire starts or if they shielded it.
Dash Attack is a crazy move that can poke from a distance if you know the spacing for the second and third hits. I use this so much just because it puts the enemy above you to the front, setting up for some reads to let you punish them well.
DashGrab is crazy. If you use your dash grab immediately as you start a dash, you carry so far and OMG! THIS THING IS AWESOME! Dash-Grabs are my main method of punish just because ness' throws all do around the same damage and his BThrow is the main kill move that people fear. Establishing Dash-Grab dominance and ability early in the game will make them fear your grab and allow for an ease into relatively passive play, which ness can fare better at.
And last but not least are the moves I know are broken:
UAir is way too good. Ness' head is huge and hits everything in the universe.
Dtilt is too pro. so fast and can cause trips, which leads to grabs if you have the proper reaction time.
PSI Magnet is broken. Wind box too strong! Also you can use it to move around and stop yourself from falling to give more time to plan what you're doing.


That's just a bit of what I know, but you can check out the Ness Guides that Ref and EB360 made here from a while back and pick up on some of their ideas. I don't know where the threads are, but there should be a sticky with a listing of all the big important threads.

Hope you enjoy playing Ness!

 

[Jamwa]

ALSO!
Don't forget PKT2 mindgames, they are the best, and a properly landed PKT2 will kill at 50-60%.

Some AT's that aren't used much, and aren't necessary but can be helpful are:
PKjump
footstall>DJ>wavebounced PKF
footstall>DJ>nair
don't try too hard to learn these, I can't even do them. Solid play and mindgames is the core of what you need to know.

a good way for us to help you is if you post a video of you playing. many people will be happy to provide some constructive criticism

 

[Eagleye893]

ALSO!
Don't forget PKT2 mindgames, they are the best, and a properly landed PKT2 will kill at 50-60%.

Some AT's that aren't used much, and aren't necessary but can be helpful are:
PKjump
footstall>DJ>wavebounced PKF
footstall>DJ>nair
don't try too hard to learn these, I can't even do them. Solid play and mindgames is the core of what you need to know.

a good way for us to help you is if you post a video of you playing. many people will be happy to provide some constructive criticism

PK Jump isn't as bad as either of the latter two, just takes a tiny bit of messing around with controls.

Either switch one of the bumpers (L/R) to jump or do some other crazy shenanigans

 

[Neon Ness]

I agree with what Eagle touched on in the beginning of his post. It sounds like you need to do more than just get good with Ness to solve this. If the person(s) hosting the tourney know about this sort of thing and just don't care, you might want to start hosting some yourself and building up a community apart from those other players.

And since it sounds like you're committed to using Ness only:

Solid play and mindgames is the core of what you need to know.

This is really important, I'd probably not even worry about any ATs right at the start, learn those later. Reading the forums can be a huge help and you can definitely ask us for advice, but ultimately, none of us can train you with our keyboards as well as you can train yourself. You'll have to get experience by just going to those tourneys. Go and lose, and lose again, and figure out why you're losing. If the people at the tournament won't help you figure out your mistakes, post a video in the video thread and we will. If they won't record the matches, start saving up for a capture device of your own and bring your own console. Ultimately it comes down to how badly you want to be that superstar who uses Ness.

If I were you I would try to see if there were any people who had the same thoughts as you, you said your scene is pretty big. If you can form a group to start attending the tournaments regularly you should be able to dethrone them with enough practice. I'd still consider hosting separate tournaments or at least smashfests though, they don't sound all that fun to play against from what you wrote.

 

[MugiwaraYonkou]

Thank you everyone.

My scene isn´t that big, there are around two or three toruneys every year, the last one hosted 36 participants and i went to 5th place. (Maybe i sounded like i´m pretty newish, but i´ve won two little toruneys myself, even winning against one guy from the group).

There are two different organizers, the first one always deny entry to the group, arging they´re so good no one else would win if they enter and thus less people will be interested in participate. The second organizer is "new", and it was his idea the last tournament, wich was pretty good, until semi finals, in wich two guys from the group had to fight.

When the battle was about to end, i heard the organizer said "I will give the victory to P2" (P2 just to not give names). In the game P1 won, but the organizers accused P2 of letting P1 won on porpuse. In the end all the participants watched the replay several times, and we concluded P1 won by his own. In the Loser brackets final, were this P1 person, and another one from the group, P1 won.

The next day the third person confessed he had let P1 won in porpuse, because he wouldn´t be able to win against the winner´s bracket winner (a friend of mine). In the end P1 won the toruney, but the organizer lose their right to accuse them on cheating because he accused them when it was not true.

(Oh my god, sorry for killing the english, is kind of hard for me to explain all this situation)

As i said, a friend of mine was finalist, he is pretty good, and learned trough online playing, that´s why i came here kinda looking for that. And we are alredy forming this group (although we are 3 people for now) to try and make our Brawl community a fun and enjoyable one. Maybe i´m kind of dramatic, but i think for that to happen, i must make myself a better player first.

 

[Screk]

Well in my opinion that little group sucks and need to be slapped with a tuna fish. Anyways to get better is exactly what Neon said. Go to tournaments win or lose but learn from the experience. Don't worry about that group just focus on being the best you can be. If you want to learn how to handle certain char's that group uses just watch Shaky or FOW's replays on youtube to see what they do in situations you might find hard to beat. In the end the way to get better is solely on you but we can help you with the process =P

 

[P.I.E.]

Training mode, and ABOVE ALL if no one's mentioned this, you should stop playing at the point where you're not having fun. Have the attitude of being a bit relaxed, and you may be able to focus more and stay calm. I know it sounds absurd to say taking it easy will help you focus more, but I believe that our best kinds of instincts as gamers come out when we're having fun and relaxing like if you play someone you know you're better than, you get a bit more bold, or not as scared. or if you play people you're comfortable with, things come out easier because you're not stressed. Everytime I stress myself or try to get super serious or focused, I find myself performing even worse than before. It's good to watch others experienced players and to accept tips, but don't emulate them because it's important to find your own style. Incorporating techniques you see into that style is fine, but don't lose yours completelty. If you master playing on instinct (bear with me) and know when you should stay back and think for a second, then you'll do fine. I'm still learning though, so I still haven't learned it all yet ^^'

Have fun, but at the same time keep the fire that drives you to beat them, because having a rival is crucial to improvement IMO. People are motivated to train harder and bring out their best, but once again often get stressed in the process. Good luck!

 

[yoshi8984]

Pie is right, stay calm, as that would allow you to focus more during matches. If you're stressed, it'll make you do even worse. It's ok to watch videos, but don't completely copy them. Do whatever works for you; don't listen what to others say. Most importantly, have fun. Hope this helps!

 

[MugiwaraYonkou]

Thank you again

I´ve been playing in training mode, and i often play with my friends but it´s rare for me to not win against them (no intention to be arrogant) so i don´t think that really helps me a lot.

About being relaxed i´ve noticed that happens to me as well,

Someone mentioned something about me sharing videos with the forum, but i don´t have any idea on how to do that. Is there any thread or tutorial on how to upload videos to youtube or something?

 

[Removed By Request]

It's easy. Make an account and hit the "Upload" button on the top of the homepage.

 

[mobilisq]

if you dont have any way to record your replays, visit this thread

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233863