DKKountry
Smash Ace
btw you do realize your making the same points as I did just one page before you right?
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Infinites: Why, exactly, are they allowed?
- Thread starter Patsie
- Start date
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Just Playing!
Inui
Banned via Warnings
They're bannable by our principles, I guess. We don't believe they have a place in a competitive game.
We ban any infinite.
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
Did not even read past the first post.
All I can say is...
Don't get grabbed. It's easy to do in Brawl.
All I can say is...
Don't get grabbed. It's easy to do in Brawl.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
lol, what? Haven't you ever played good players? Like, real top players?
Dragonboy2k4
Smash Ace
"Slaps you a high five"Horyahhh! All 35 can compete!
At least here..
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
I caaaaaan't! I'm a mod only for atlantic south, the only mod powers I have here are the ability to give infractions to people.
And that's why I've never heard of you and the tournaments you host?
Sorry to be so harsh there, but any tournament that bans infinites just cause they infinite apparently haven't read any of this thread, and they also are making a big leap before looking. You also should realize in a tournament community, where playing to win is the way to go, you don't ban something on "principle." Pretty much every competitive fighter has infinites and they are accepted as part of the scene. We've outlined exactly why they are accepted. We've debated and shown evidence to support that the infinites do not break the game, therefore they do not take away from the game.
All you have to stand on is the fact that you have a lot of scrub support.
It's funny how those very same people... you know the real top players... they don't think infinites should be banned, and they honestly can get around most grab opportunities that could lead to an infinite.
@Dragonboy
If you remove the infinites Snake, Meta, and ROB would still dominate. Actually, a lot of the best characters don't have true infinites, and if they do they are typically very situational.
DKKountry
Smash Ace
My thoughts exactly, and a great place to end this discussion. Now let's go find a mod who can lock this discussion and ice cream is on me!
Inui
Banned via Warnings
Pay more attention to the world around you, Mookie.
http://allisbrawl.com/profile.aspx?id=4424
I'm a top Brawl player and a certified host.
They take actual skill in other games, as well as certain conditions. In Marvel, they took super meter and technical skill. In Brawl...it takes connecting a grab and then repeating, lololol.
Last I checked, Mew2King agreed with us that they're ********.
clowsui
Smash Legend
Yeah but did he ever say it needed to be banned?
Also Inui
I'm arrogant and cocky and not nice to people I don't like, and that includes most people
You were decently nice to me :o You just contradicted your profile!
edit: yeah, thread stalking XD I do this to other people, just I don't post in the threads that they're looking at because those threads are boring.
Also Inui
I'm arrogant and cocky and not nice to people I don't like, and that includes most people
You were decently nice to me :o You just contradicted your profile!
edit: yeah, thread stalking XD I do this to other people, just I don't post in the threads that they're looking at because those threads are boring.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
Mew2King agreed that walk-off/wall infinites had to be banned, and that the Dedede standing infinite is pretty unfair.
You've yet to give me a reason to dislike you.
clowsui
Smash Legend
Hmm
I assume SBR is debating...OS said to me two nights ago that they're close to releasing the ruleset. He's been posting it on the forums too, so I guess it's a week or two away.
I assume SBR is debating...OS said to me two nights ago that they're close to releasing the ruleset. He's been posting it on the forums too, so I guess it's a week or two away.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
lol, like I'm supposed to care about their ruleset. There's a plethora of untalented, unknowledgable people in there, and a large amount of talented and knowledgable people not in there.
Well, I like Emblem Lord a lot, at least.
Well, I like Emblem Lord a lot, at least.
Aw, now you hurt my feelings.
Also, they're guidelines, not a solid ruleset, so people are fully allowed to take what they like and make their own judgments on what they really don't like or don't think would be good for their tournament scene.
Also, they're guidelines, not a solid ruleset, so people are fully allowed to take what they like and make their own judgments on what they really don't like or don't think would be good for their tournament scene.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
lol, Ankoku ftw, too, as well as a few others. I'm just biased towards Marcel because he invented my main.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
i agree with sadaharu and PoT is awesome
the only infinite that should be banned is D3s
and i dont understand why difficulty of a move would not have a bearing on whether it gets banned
the only infinite that should be banned is D3s
and i dont understand why difficulty of a move would not have a bearing on whether it gets banned
If the D3 infinite wasn't banned, you could CP any of the five with him after CPing a stage with a wall and you'd win instantly. However, IC's infinite grab hasn't yet even really surfaced in NJ. I've never seen ICs even used in a tourney match. And this is largely due to the difficulty of execution. If it was easier, and could be an autowin for people who otherwise lacked skill, then it would be banned. However, those who can win with the IC grabs can often win without them, which isn't the case with D3.
In other words: If somebody who doesn't know the character can win with the character by using the infinite and nothing else, it takes the skill out of the game and breaks the idea of the tourney match, which is to measure skill.
D3 infinite? I can do that, and my D3's garbage
IC Infinites? I wish. I can do one of the finite ones, that's it.
VagrantLest
Smash Cadet
Ease of use should mean very little toward whether something is banned because in the highest level of play(the one that matters and everyone is striving for) players are assumed to be capable of anything their character can do. Technical skill is only a factor in low and mid level play.
You're a moron, and clearly didn't read my post.
I could be the best friggen Mario player in the world, but some scrub who knows how to press Z over and over again can beat my character if I get grabbed once. That make it easier for you to understand?
Random scrubs do not win with Ice Climber grabs. Random scrubs can win with D3 grabs.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Indeed and on that note I got infinited by a DDD on delfino plaza (his counter pick)
yeah 0-85% FTL. Yes I did lose afterwards T_T
yeah 0-85% FTL. Yes I did lose afterwards T_T
CStrife187
Smash Journeyman
Didn't CBK just 2-0 Zelgadis in tournament though? I could swear those are two top brawl players, and the DK beat the DDD 2-0. Check the tournament videos section for the vids. This should be pretty conclusive evidence that the infinite is not broken.
:edit:
note that earlier in the tournament CBK went falco against zel's DDD to avoid the chaingrab. He lost as falco, but won as DK. This should make it pretty clear that not only is DK capable of beating DDD, but top players stand a better chance going with their main that counterpicking out of fear.
now, please stop complaining and go win tournaments if it's so broken
Here are the vids.
CBK(DK) vs Zelgadis(DDD)
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mnzu5-tRBI
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY5deubEfZ8
:edit:
note that earlier in the tournament CBK went falco against zel's DDD to avoid the chaingrab. He lost as falco, but won as DK. This should make it pretty clear that not only is DK capable of beating DDD, but top players stand a better chance going with their main that counterpicking out of fear.
now, please stop complaining and go win tournaments if it's so broken
Here are the vids.
CBK(DK) vs Zelgadis(DDD)
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mnzu5-tRBI
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY5deubEfZ8
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Show me some non-local tournament results.
For starters, OF COURSE the standing infinites are unfair, and honestly I'm actually going to use them in tournaments to show that they are a bit broken; however, I'm not so much of an *** to think that my opinion is the right opinion and I'll let my pears judge the final decision after thorough debate.
Also, M2K whines ALL THE TIME about how the characters he doesn't play are broken when he usually plays the best characters. This is one of the few times where he actually talks about the brokenness of his own character. All in all, M2K is a bad example.
List some of these untalented, unknowledeable people. Humor me.
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
Did you mean peers?
I'm sorry that spelling mistake was too good.
If this gets responded to Mookie's going to mention that his decision's lay solely on the beliefs of a fruit bowl. XD
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Dangz, you got me. That image is win though. Pears are my favorite fruit. They kick *** and make all my decisions.
ALiAsVee
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2008
- Messages
- 739
DDD can't infinite chaingrab luigi...
Yes he can. But Luigi is funny in that while DeDeDe can infinite him, he can't chaingrab him for some reason (as in downthrow, let him fly off a little and then chase after him).
He can chaingrab the other 4, though. In fact, DeDeDe's chaingrab on Bowser is not a standing infinite or even an infinite at all because he has to move forward inbetween each and every grab (meaning it can end when he runs out of stage and he can trip).
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
I thought it was a walking step forward and you can't trip when walking?
I don't know. I'm not a D3 player.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
Okay, but "non-local" is going to have to be "large tournaments that had NY/PA people at them as well" since Brawl hasn't had national things yet.
Naw, that's gay.
Only you can. At any time when moving forward on the ground and quite possibly even when not moving forward, you can trip. You can trip while doing over B (trust me, I main Zelda). Now I'm pretty sure than when I hit to the side and then B, I'm not initiating a run and then side B:ing.
I checked out the second video. Dedede misses many grab oppurtunities. I think there were two he screwed up on the initial grab, and one he released one at like 42%. So if he would have hit one of those he probably could have won. Is screwing up that many times for a Dedede main typical?
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
Ah. I didn't know the tripping while walking thing. I play Sonic. I don't walk. Ever.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
The only place with good Dededes is Atlantic North.
They don't mess up.
Onoly, once again, it's not that unfair then, is it? If DK can win if DeDeDe just screws up the infinite a few times, then DeDeDe is clearly not winning by such a huge margin it's totally unfair 100-0 and he can never win a million years, now is it?
Also, a missed grab opportunity =/= The player's fault. Don't go about spamming grabs. Good Sheiks didn't do that in Melee... because that is bad. If you just spam grabs, people will quickly figure you out and punsih you almost each and every single time. So you need to mix it up and do other things.
A "missed grab opportunity" could just be a mixup.
Rapid_Assassin
Smash Master
Why don't you show me a video of yourself so I can point out all the times you screwed up?
Or a video of yourself winning against the same player with the same character, using nothing but the infinite to prove your point.Screwing up is typical of anyone. If someone screwed up, it doesn't mean that the infinite doesn't exist. It's only an infinite if the player doesn't mess it up.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Dangz. Well, you got me there. I just got blasted.
Anyways, now that is out of the way, what exactly is your stance? Are you just against the standing infinites or are you against them + the IC infinites? If it's just the standing stuff, then I could understand. The IC's though, not so much. This thread has gotten so convoluted and heated that I honestly am not sure who is arguing what at this point.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
Standing infinites are gay.
ICs stuff takes skill and is more situational and getting the grab in the first place is harder.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Ok, that's what I wanted to know. I was under the impression that you hated all infinites from some of the things you said earlier in the thread.
CStrife187
Smash Journeyman
Yuna, you can only trip when dashing. When you trip while using your over B it's because you hit over slightly before hitting B and trip. you can't trip while walking, hence why walking is the new wavedash.
ftl
Smash Journeyman
Just an interesting note, I don't know whether it's been mentioned yet because I haven't read all of this thread. I've been looking at the DK forums, and according to them, the ICs are a WAY harder matchup than D3. Despite the ICs chaingrab being 'less broken', more difficult, and the ICs being otherwise worse... the ICs are listed at a difficulty of Over9000, whereas D3 is a 10. It's not considered a completely unwinnable matchup, though it is a really really hard one.
Gelsamel
Smash Cadet
Disclaimer: I've Only Read the First Two Pages.
The way I see it is that an "infinite" should be just considered as an instant kill skill. Infinites should be treated simply like that, if an infinite is possible then an instant kill is possible.
It should be banned for the same reason that Smash Balls are banned!
Sure, DDD's infinite only works on 5 people, so he can only do it some of the time. But I can only use the Final Smash some of the time - but when I DO get it as Marth, or someone else, they're DEAD.
Just like banning stages with hazards and items, infinites and instant kill attacks remove a huge amount of skill and strategy from the game, and both should be dealt with in the same manner.
The way I see it is that an "infinite" should be just considered as an instant kill skill. Infinites should be treated simply like that, if an infinite is possible then an instant kill is possible.
It should be banned for the same reason that Smash Balls are banned!
Sure, DDD's infinite only works on 5 people, so he can only do it some of the time. But I can only use the Final Smash some of the time - but when I DO get it as Marth, or someone else, they're DEAD.
Just like banning stages with hazards and items, infinites and instant kill attacks remove a huge amount of skill and strategy from the game, and both should be dealt with in the same manner.
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