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Inferno's Decarde, The Bowser Video & Critique Thread

Zigsta

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Swei, here's my thoughts on your Falco matches:

-You have a really bad habit of always using your double jump before your Bowser Bomb. If you wanna drop down, then just Bowser Bomb. Anytime you used your double jump around the height of the topmost platform on BF, you Bowser Bombed.

-Good use of upsmash after the dsmash. Those two smashes are kinda janky at low percents in that you can squeeze them in for "combos" sometimes. Good catch.

-You're definitely playing the MU wrong. I can't tell if you're scared of approaching or just don't know how to approach--at times you stand back (I'm assuming because you don't wanna get CG'd), but then you jump in and SH dair only to get CG'd. Don't approach Falco until you're past CG percent. If there's a platform, camp it and see what he does. If he tries to upair or bair you, Fortress him. Smart Falcos will bait the Fortress, FYI. If there's no platform, just take the lasers. Slowly move forward a bit so you're a safe distance away from the ledge yet out of Falco's DACUS range. Approaching before Bowser's past the CG percent is suicide because a good Falco WILL take your stock after that CG.

-Don't forget we can GR>dtilt Falco for a kill, and we have a AR CG.

-Don't sit in your shield. You want that baby as full as possible so you don't get poked. The worst thing you can do against a lasering Falco is to just stop in the middle of the stage and shield. It gives Falco complete control over the situation.

-You airdodge a lot. I wanna see more Jab out of you! Jab him and see what he does.

-Game 2's exactly what I'm talking about. You approached and got wrecked.

-After you took Falco's first stock in game 2, you ran to the platform even though you had 120ish%. That's just not smart. Falco WANTS you in the air at those percents because he can kill you much easier in the air than on the ground. Don't just so easily expose Bowser's blindspot.

-You also suffer from the "oh crap I just took a lotta damage I gotta attack back" syndrome. See how at the end of game 2 you got juggled and then you threw out a poorly space fair that ended up just getting you damaged even more? Bowser's fat. Really, really fat. Don't worry about getting juggled or how much damage you've taken. He can take a lot of hits. Just focus on getting back down safely.

-Your uptilt's are too obvious. I like to use them as an upsmash mixup. Once I condition them to the upsmash, I wait for a shielddrop so I can uptilt. Another cool trick on Falco (and Fox) is to edgeguard with your back to them and uptilt their side B when they come on the stage. You'd be surprised how many Falcos actually fall for that, and I've done that to top Falcos.

-Stop spotdodging with Bowser! Agfugbfgbfbgbgjiefjei!!


I hope all this helps. Lemme know if you have any more questions. :)



Dre:

-Don't fair your opponent at low percents onstage. You're asking to get punished.

-You need to be a LOT more grounded against Wolf. Almost ALL his KO situations revolve around putting Bowser in the air OR reacting to how Bowser falls back to the ground. Powershield his gun, play boring, and jab the living SNOT out of him. You WILL take a lot of damage early on, but Wolf has way more trouble killing Bowser if you stay grounded.

-Don't forget we have GR>dtilt.

-You also suffer from the "gotta return damage" syndrome. If you get blaster'd mid-jump, you often try to SH fair Wolf only to get blaster'd again. Chill out! Blaster doesn't do that much damage and is just an annoyance for the King of the Koopas.

-If someone is on a platform above you, 9 times out of ten, Klaw/upsmash/uptilt is way better than nair. Nair's just a WTF mixup.


Not a whole lot there, but if you play more grounded, you'll honestly find this MU a lot easier.


I know both of you guys have more videos than that up, but my arms are tired, and I need a break from typing on this ATROCIOUS laptop.
 

Dre89

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Thanks for the critique. If someone is on a platform above I normally usmash, I have no idea why I was nairing.
 

MrEh

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Spot dodging with Bowser is generally a bad idea, like Zigsta said.

Even if you do successfully dodge something, you're not likely to recover fast enough to do a sufficient punish.
Bowser does not have the luxury of being able to do this, since his spot dodge is so terrible. If I THINK my opponent is going to swing at me, I'm gonna UpB. Regardless if my opponent blocks it or not, at least it has better odds or working then a spot dodge.

This is especially true if you think your opponent is trying to fall on you. Did they swing? Then UpB beats them most of the time. Did they airdodge? Then UpB will beat them flat out.
 

Dre89

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Ok thanks. What about airdodging? FF airdodge to upb or utilt are 2 things I like to do, probably too much though.

:phone:
 

Zigsta

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It's not a bad mixup from time to time, but characters have attacks that'll beat that if you're predictable. That's why I don't like the set between Acid and Leon--it's gotten a lot of newer Bowsers thinking airdodge is good when Leon didn't even attempt a single pivot grab.

:phone:
 

Zigsta

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Tap jump just boils down to whatever you're most comfortable with. I play with it on because I use tap jump for ledgehops.

:phone:
 

Dre89

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I've tried both but I find it too hard to upb oos properly with it off. It's much easier with it on, and upb oos is so important to Bowser's meta that it's worth dealing with the troubles of having it on.

:phone:
 

DarkdeathEvilman

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If any of you senior members have time, I was wondering if you might be able to review and critique these videos of my Bowser in a few tourney and MM sets in my playlist here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/HakaiOG/videos

I don't have as much tournament/competitive play experience as the guys I fought against, so forgive me if you don't like what you see!

But again, I understand you guys are busy, and also that Bowser isn't used much in tourneys and the game is dying in general, so I hope I don't impose on you guys by asking for help!
 

Zigsta

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Heya Dark, no need to be so proper! I'll gladly get to some of your videos within the week. Any in particular you'd like me to critique?

:phone:
 

DarkdeathEvilman

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Thanks! I was thinking my matches against Metaknight in particular. I have a lot of trouble dealing with his crap lol

And in general Im curious as to what you think of my bowser's playstyle. Good? Bad? Scrubby? haha
 

Zigsta

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You betcha. I'll check out your MK vids and pay close attention to your playstyle.

:phone:
 

Dre89

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what troubles are there with having tap jump on, exactly?
I tend to jump accidently because I'm not used to using it.

I never used it on other chars because I don't find it useful for anything other than usmash or upb oos.

:phone:
 

MrEh

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Ok thanks. What about airdodging? FF airdodge to upb or utilt are 2 things I like to do, probably too much though.

:phone:
Airdodging is always fine if used in certain situations, since unlike a spot dodge, the air dodge animation can be canceled by landing on something. So you might be able to punish something.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

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I tend to jump accidently because I'm not used to using it.

I never used it on other chars because I don't find it useful for anything other than usmash or upb oos.

:phone:
I don't see why some people find the use of Tap Jump strange. If you came from 64 and/or Melee you'd see it's the most normal thing there is. I myself find X/Y jumping strange. The only advantage to it is being able to use the U-Tilt consistently. I miss out on it. :(
 

Dre89

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Well prior to brawl I hadn't played 64 or Melee in like 5 years, so that's where my problem came from.
 

B!squick

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;/

This is new:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzetEQD9Ylo&feature=youtu.be

Anyone is free to cririque this.
Good so far... DSmash fails yet again. That move is full of so much suck... Why did you throw him? O.o ... I'll just assume you were buffing for a DTilt and DThrowed on accident... Too much spot dodge... Bad DI on that first stock... Shocked DSmash killed, but I guess it was fresh so, yeah... Ha, DownB kill... You DO know it's a good idea to let the opponent break from your grab, right?...

Well that was actually pretty good. Spacing was kinda bad and you were using spot dodge like it was going out of style, but it was still pretty good.
 
D

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D-Smash is my commonly used punishing/KO move. :D But yeah, I understand it's full of suck. In higher levels of competetive play, people know how to SDI out of it. :/ ANYWAY, thanks for the critique as always.

I am fully aware of the AR/GR shenanigans, but I didn't use them on that match on accident. :/ GR to D-Tilt doesn't seem to work on this player also, so I might just go with the regrab/chaingrab.

I was playing ok that night. You'll see my videos against an Olimar player later. Lots of GR shenanigans in them.

EDIT: Is punishing MK's failed dash grab attempt with a D-smash a good idea?
 

Uncle

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If MK fails at his dashgrab, you should punish him quickly with a tilt, klaw, or grab of your own (which should then lead to a regrab, tilt, or Klaw :cool:). DSmash is only good to punish players who are lacking in SDI, like you mentioned. Bowser Bomb is another situationally useful punish, because if they didn't see it coming, then they won't be able to escape the second hit. If you really want to kill an MK at high % who messes up his grab attempt, though, then save a fresh tilt or even a fresh Klaw for that, because they're more reliable.
 

Z'zgashi

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My go to option for quick punishes like that is to grab, cuz then it gives me a guaranteed follow up or damage, plus the time to decide what exactly I should do. Generally, unless going for something else specific (like a KO you know you can get), I feel like Bowser's best option in situations like that is usually grab, especially due to his GR options. I feel like most of my damage I get when I do get a punish, outside of hard reads, comes from my grab punishes. Bowser's Grab imo is one of the most rewarding grabs in the game, and it stays that way throughout the whole match.

Also, while I did say grab was my go to option, you shouldnt always use it, you should use other options like jab, klaw, ftilt, etc as well. Like I said, grab is my favorite punish due to the follow ups, options, and giving me time to survey the situation, and imo thats why it's your best punish option.
 

Cassius.

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Everyone is different, so I'll say that my go-to move is Klaw (yeah yeah big surprise.)

Apparently it's weird because apparently I'll like...zone out while Bowser is in the Klaw animation and think of other **** to do after it's done. I make weird faces lol

if you can consistently net grabs for punishes though, go for it, that's an absolutely amazing thing like z'z said.
 
D

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I like this Bowser:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVwdVvJLF-E

It's from a Finnish player who used to be the best there, he mains DDD but probably uses Bowser as a secondary. IMO, that's a good Bowser. I like it. I like how he isn't pure Klaw and Jab cancels to other moves often.
 

Cassius.

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Well for one thing he had a really huge weakness that I'm surprised the Lucario player didn't pick up on. Everytime he (the Bowser) was sent into the air he would airdodge down. Lucario could have gotten huge punishes off of that or even a couple of grabs.

For a secondary I guess that's kinda good. He may not be "pure" klaw but that move surely would have saved him in multiple situations in that one match. It would have saved him a lot of trouble, epsecially in the Lucario matchup which is pretty straightforward. lol

and I really do not like his repeated use of falling FAir. If he had used that to condition the opponent to shield and then used klaw more often or something, that'd be great....but, he didn't.

wait, that was from august 2010. nevermind.
 
D

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Well, our metagame hasn't changed much since 2010. It's roughly 2 years.
In other news, I am beggining to mix-up my close-combat game more by mixing up things like that player did. I use jab and F-Tilt much more and a little bit less Klaw.
 

Flayl

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Well, our metagame hasn't changed much since 2010. It's roughly 2 years.
In other news, I am beggining to mix-up my close-combat game more by mixing up things like that player did. I use jab and F-Tilt much more and a little bit less Klaw.
Glad to know the good advice I wrote in my thread was ignored.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

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Of course not. I've been looking at it. That's where I am getting advice on mix-ups. 8P
Dude, it's on my Favorites list. 8[
 

Zigsta

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So did you figure anything out yet? :D
You need to play a lot more grounded, especially against MK. You have a bad habit of fishing for Klaws--if they're out of your ftilt range, you jump and Klaw.

You should never jump when MK's on the ledge. That's asking to get Nadoed or Shuttle Looped. Stay grounded and patient.

You need to throw in jab cancels as mixups. Bowser needs them to add a (small) element of unpredictability and speed to his game.

Your Klawhopping's decent (albeit overused), but at times I felt like you were Klawhopping just to Klawhop, and you didn't seem to have a "plan." I like to feel out my opponent and see how they react to KHing in place and moving forwards/backwards. Sometimes I kinda hit a groove and get a feel for the battle more. It's hard to explain, but after a lot of playing, you'll feel when KHing is right.

If you use your double jump high up and fall straight down against MK, you're gonna get Nadoed. Bowser's airdodge sucks. Try to fall to the side--don't airdodge in place of the trajectory you're falling--or throw out dair or Bowser Bomb. Both beat Nado off the top if it's early enough in the attack and you're coming from the right angle. You'll almost always find Nado beats our AD, so you might as well try an attack.

Needs more fsmash!! For real, most rookie Bowsers don't use this enough/think it's a bad move/save it for KOs. It's an amazing spacing tool, beats airdodges, and is super handy. Start throwing it out more often and get a feel for it.

:phone:
 

Dre89

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I'm surprised by your fsmash advice. Do you use it to space because he leans back?

:phone:
 

Zigsta

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Yes. The leanback actually dodges a lot of attacks and serves as a counterattack as well. I've landed counterattack fsmashes on TONS of top players. Off the top of my head: Marth's fsmash, Link's ledgehopped nair, MK's dtilt and ftilt, and Snake's ftilt.

:phone:
 

Cassius.

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zss's dsmash, dedede's grab and ftilt and kirby's fsmash (i got super lucky/bad spacing lol) to name some more
 
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