Important -- Using your pummel to freshen moves: Thanks SuSa!

[PND]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=240662
Percentile list of how many pummels you can get depending on the opponent's percent.

Copied:
0%: 18th frame - 0 pummels
10%: 36th frame = 1 pummel
20%: 54th frame = 1 pummel
30%: 72nd frame = 2 pummels
40%: 90th frame = 3 pummels
50%: 108nd frame = 4 pummels
60%: 126th frame = 4 pummels
70%: 144th frame = 5 pummels

So if you grab your opponent near killing percent, you can get 5 pummels off. I'm not sure if this testing is done with button mashing or what, but 5 moves is MORE than enough to freshen your fair for killing. I often use pummels to freshen up moves for Snake, but never thought of applying it to Jiggs -- where fresh moves matter WAY more -- due to her slow pummel. If this testing does indeed factor in button mashing to break, then congrats. Fresh moves are no longer an issue. Spam your fair, kiddos, we got this.

Here's it color coded to help with memorization (mnemonic devices FTW)

0%-10% - 0 Pummels
10%-20% - 1 Pummel
30% - 2 Pummels
40% - 3 Pummels
50%-60% - 4 Pummels
70%+ - 5 Pummels

Thanks SuSa for that thread!

 

[SuSa]

I think my formula is wrong, I sure as hell hope not though.... waiting for someone to confirm.

For some reason I feel it's wrong and I think my tester meant -4 frames per input and the soonest you can break out WHENEVER is frame 18, but he hasn't said anything yet... (This would make only people with faster pummels then 18 frames have a guarenteed pummel if your opponent was insanely fast with inputs)

:/ I hope it's right though......


Also you need to wait a certain amount of time between each pummel (IIRC: 7 frames) for it to count as a move in the stale move list thingie.. otherwise it all counts as 1... (stupid, I know...)

 

[PND]

Hope so too

Any testing I can help out with?

 

[SuSa]

For anyone interested I believe the formula is:

90 + 1.8 frames per % (Only counting every 5%'s will it change) - 4 frames per input with 1 input every frame / 28 (Jiggz pummel speed) = Amount of guarenteed pummels

1.8 may be 1.6, I forget... <_< and the part I'm unsure about is the - 4 frames per input with every 1 input every frame....

Anyways, your like the only board to care so far... so thank you =]

 

[PND]

Well I don't think stale moves really hurts any other characters as much as it hurts us.

So thank you for this.

Even if these numbers change, having the percents where pummels are guaranteed will be monumental in improving our kill game.

 

[SummonerAU]

Is the formula for the amount of time spent in the grab 90 + 1.8d - 4b where d is damage and b is buttons inputted? If so, wouldn't it be written as (90 + 1.8d - 4b)/ Pummel speed = Total number of pummels? As it is now, it could be interpreted as 90 + 1.8d - (4b/pummel speed). The latter not really making sense imo.

You wouldn't happen to know how brawl interprets cstick rotation would you? I'm currently in the process of writing up a guide for Wiimote + Nunchuck and I'm trying to see how the dpad works and shake smash in regards to button inputs and if they are different to Gamecube cstick rotation

 

[PND]

The cstick has to return to neutral before being counted as an input IIRC

 

[TheStig]

are those percentages that you can start pummeling at?

 

[SummonerAU]

The cstick has to return to neutral before being counted as an input IIRC

If this is true, then what I've been expecting, comparison wise, has to be completely changed. Is it also true for SDI? (I remember something like that being written somewhere).

@Susa: You may wish to investigate how many character's grabs have a small period between grab and throw (such as Link's clawshot). I know I've mashed out of a Link grab before the claw even pulled me into Link. I'm thinking this may influence the pummel data (Toon Link, Link, Samus, ZSS, Olimar, Ivysaur, Lucas and Yoshi are all the character that I think this could influence).

 

[Noobicidal]

Call me crazy, but I'm missing the breaking news story; none of you guys have pummeled to refresh moves before this..? Jiggs has a freakin' unbelievable grab game, and not pummeling until now is just silly...

 

[r3d d09]

Call me crazy, but I'm missing the breaking news story; none of you guys have pummeled to refresh moves before this..? Jiggs has a freakin' unbelievable grab game, and not pummeling until now is just silly...

So true. Coming from a D3 main and a partial IC main. Now maining Jiggs is lovely because I love her grab game.

on the thread topic. I will actually try some in game data, see how this works and if it does go correctly with the information that you've give the puff community.

 

[Thinkaman]

I am shocked that you didn't already do this PND; I've been doing this religiously since I leanred Ness and his exceptionally fast pummel.

In fact, it is so critical to Jigglypuff's high-level game that pummel speed was one of the first things we buffed in Balanced Brawl.

Also, those %s are way too low. At standard pummel speed, you could not be able to get a pummel in before throw at less than 30% minimum agaisnt a good human. Don't go for 2 unless they have 70%, don't go for 3 unless it's 130% or so. Listen to the opponent's controller, and pummel more accordingly to the silence.

 

[PND]

Yeah, I never really pummeled. I thought it was too slow to be useful, so I'd always keep a mental checklist of every move I had used up until that point. I'd alter my playstyle to always keep fair fresh.

But I play a very gay 'puff now, pummeling wasn't of the utmost concern as I'd win by percent lead and timeouts, not kills

And like I said, I do it with Snake and my other characters

 

[*JuriHan*]

i think those are wrong... 5 at 70% sounds too high

 

[Noobicidal]

But I play a very gay 'puff now, pummeling wasn't of the utmost concern as I'd win by percent lead and timeouts, not kills

I can play a retardedly gay Puff as well, and pummeling helps to waste time AND give a percent lead.

Still, lol@nopummels.

 

[TheStig]

personally, i don't think these numbers are right

at 70% you can do 2 maybe 3 pummels but definately not 5.

 

[Noobicidal]

They're not right.

 

[SuSa]

Correct, they aren't. Formula was wrong. :/