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Important Threads + Q&A

#HBC | Ryker

Netplay Monstrosity
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So MK has recently been banned in AL. Outside of him and my main (Falco), Link is probably my best character. He's the character I feel I synched with the best in Brawl, he's just not good. But anyway, I play Link at a level high enough that I'm considering playing him against both Pikachu and Ice Climbers, of which my region has enough that I'm bound to run into them before long. He's got a better match-up than Falco in both match-ups and I feel comfortable with him, so I think I'm gonna give him the green light.

So I would ask, what the things I HAVE to know about both match-ups in order to win.
 

Rizen

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So MK has recently been banned in AL. Outside of him and my main (Falco), Link is probably my best character. He's the character I feel I synched with the best in Brawl, he's just not good. But anyway, I play Link at a level high enough that I'm considering playing him against both Pikachu and Ice Climbers, of which my region has enough that I'm bound to run into them before long. He's got a better match-up than Falco in both match-ups and I feel comfortable with him, so I think I'm gonna give him the green light.

So I would ask, what the things I HAVE to know about both match-ups in order to win.
PLATFORMS!!!
Both characters can give Link h*** if they grab him; platform camping is your best option by far. Brinstar is a great CP vs both of them. They'll probably ban it, BF is a good CP too. Avoid SV and FD for starters, even YI is better vs those characters.
Don't use laggy moves, play it safe.
Bombs are your best friends, use the a lot. Bombs out prioritize thunder jolts and blizzard (I think icebergs too).
Spam from higher ground and jumps/SHs.
ICs have a 6 frame difference in when they raise their shield.
If Pika launches you up don't momentum cancel if you won't die. He will thunder you; watch which direction he's coming from and DI the opposite way.
You can out spam them with effort so don't approach unless you have to.
Good luck :)
 

Huggles828

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Link has a better MU than Falco against IC's? Wow. I didn't realize it was that tough a MU for Falco.

Both are hard MUs for Link but are on the border of winnable for him.

IC's you have to play as campy as possible; if they're gonna play a character who can 0>death everyone don't feel bad about spamming your brains out, haha. Link really doesn't have enough mobility to escape them on levels like FD. BF is okay. Go to levels that make CGs harder and have lots of platforms like Brinstar or even RC. IC's have trouble PSing projectiles since there's 2 of them, so use that to your advantage. Zair's nice. They kinda beat up Link, but Link can separate them easier than lots of other characters. I would try to play as safe as I can rather than risking things with laggier moves. I'd put it at -3 on FD, SV, etc. for Link, -1 if you can get a good level.

Pikachu is really tough too. He has a CG on Link for like 25 damage or something. You're in a better position if you can keep Pikachu on his toes and trying to spam you than if he tries to close in. The biggest problem is he's fast and small at the same time. Legan has a set against King I'd recommend watching.
Legan (Link) vs. King (Pikachu) 1
Legan (Link) vs. King (Pikachu) 2
Legan (Link) vs. King (Pikachu) 3
Space well against Pikachu and keep away from him. If you get launched up try to DI so that you have at least some horizontal momentum to make it harder for him to thunder you since Link's air speed is pretty sluggish. It's a pretty solid -2 I'd say.

I like that MK is being banned, haha. I think it gives the game more depth. You don't ever go to GA tournies, do you, Ryker?
 

Capuchon

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I have a question : I want to know all the possibilities that Link can have offstage with the boomerang, i find it interesting =3.
 

Rizen

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I have a question : I want to know all the possibilities that Link can have offstage with the boomerang, i find it interesting =3.
Do you mean when Link is offstage recovering or when his throwing it to stop a recovering opponent?
 

Capuchon

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Prevent the enemy from returning on the stage, yeah.

And sorry for my english, i'm from belgium, so, he is not perfect.
 

Rizen

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No problem :)
There's 'gale guarding' where you jump off stage and throw the boomerang against the stage so it bounces off and the wind continues to pull the opponent away:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=--xoQvml-UI#t=278s

Phantom Boomerang:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=--xoQvml-UI#t=295s
(This almost never actually helps)

You can simply hit with it and follow up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VXqxn9jQDz4#t=283s

The wind effect will carry sideB recovery moves farther and up a little:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HBoCcNRCH1g#t=110s
This can work with any sideB move that gives forwards momentum (like Marth's dancing Blade).

The end of the boomerang's outward animation will use the wind to push opponents. When this is spaced right it can gimp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HBoCcNRCH1g#t=110s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rbKy7rGzXWs#t=169s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9I8UHIOgpr0#t=116s
Even if the boomerang's attack is canceled by a move, the wind part will not be. This can stop any recovery but it isn't reliable.
 

BryE

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No problem :)
There's 'gale guarding' where you jump off stage and throw the boomerang against the stage so it bounces off and the wind continues to pull the opponent away:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=--xoQvml-UI#t=278s

Phantom Boomerang:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=--xoQvml-UI#t=295s
(This almost never actually helps)

You can simply hit with it and follow up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VXqxn9jQDz4#t=283s

The wind effect will carry sideB recovery moves farther and up a little:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HBoCcNRCH1g#t=110s
This can work with any sideB move that gives forwards momentum (like Marth's dancing Blade).

The end of the boomerang's outward animation will use the wind to push opponents. When this is spaced right it can gimp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HBoCcNRCH1g#t=110s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rbKy7rGzXWs#t=169s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9I8UHIOgpr0#t=116s
Even if the boomerang's attack is canceled by a move, the wind part will not be. This can stop any recovery but it isn't reliable.
I'm definitely going to look at these vids later. (Can't look at them right now since I'm using a computer on my college campus, so no flash player)
 

Capuchon

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Thanks a lot, i have some idea with the boomerang. I'll make a video for that =P.
 

Rizen

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^You are welcome :)
Question. How do you buffer an uptilt out of spotdodge? I use tap jump so i can only use uptilt when buffered. But i can only seem to upair even if i try to buffer the uptilt.

On a related note, is it possible to un-buffer or de-buffer?
For example, to buffer an attack you would input another direction during startup, but would doing another direction right after the second one cancel the buffer? Is there a set time window to do this?

:phone:
I don't recommend tap jump for Link.
Spot dodge by shielding and tapping 'C'down, then angle the control stick up (not tap) and press 'A'.


It's possible in ways to cancel buffers. The most common is DAC (Dash Attack Cancel) aka DACUS (DAC Up Smash). If you dash attack with 'C' down and roll your thumb up at an angle and press 'A' with the right timing the dash attack will be canceled but its sliding will continue as you Usmash. Link has bomb throwing ATs that use a very similar process.
You can also immediately spot dodge (with no shield start lag) by dashing and rolling the control stick down at an angle and pressing shield; this cancels the shield and the spot dodge slides the distance of a shield dash.
Another trick is Link's 'invincibomb'- when you are holding a bomb in the air press shield and attack together and Link will drop the bomb (or any throwing item) with an airdodge animation because the air dodge canceled the item drop.
Similarly, if an item is thrown at you in the air, you can instantly throw it by pressing shield (airdodge) and 'C' in a direction at the same time- there is no airdodge or catching animation because the throw cancels it.

Aside from several ATs, you can't simply cancel a buffered move. The canceled moves have to work together somehow, it's just how the game 'thinks'. That's why there is no DAC Dsmash.
 

Dyclone

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I've been wondering; where is Link at his strongest? At an angle? Mid range? I feel like I need somewhere to go and focus on when I get the chance.
 

BryE

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I've been wondering; where is Link at his strongest? At an angle? Mid range? I feel like I need somewhere to go and focus on when I get the chance.
I always felt that Link performs at his best at mid range spacing, possibly far range if you place your projectiles carefully. Close range can be horrible for him since he's always being outmatched by faster moves from other characters. Which is one of the reasons why he is so low on the tier list.

In my opinion, I just believe that Link is good at spacing and setting up for "combos" and racking damage with his projectiles. His Gale Boomerang can also work wonders if you know how to use it correctly. He also works well when it comes too footstool to jab lock stuff.
 

Rizen

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I've been wondering; where is Link at his strongest? At an angle? Mid range? I feel like I need somewhere to go and focus on when I get the chance.
In general it's what BryE said. That and hitting from the tip of his attacks (except Usmash and Spin attack).
Link should keep moving and spamming with lots of SHs but land quickly after. Bombs are good traps when dropped. Platforms really help Link camp and move because his terrible mobility but he has several landing canceling moves, curved/angled range attacks, bombs, falls fast, and his jumps/double jumps are a height that land on most platforms after their peak.
It also depends on the opponent, of course. In most cases Link should slightly retreat as he moves then find a platform or try some mindgame to crossover. Link has the best spot dodge in the game but no good options OoS :glare:. His airdodge is really good too but his rolls are bad.

We can be 'in your face' aggressive vs Samus.
 

Dyclone

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So as long as I can avoid CQC I'm fine?
Also, I have another question how do I make the most out of having an opponent on a platform above me?
 

BryE

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So as long as I can avoid CQC I'm fine?
Also, I have another question how do I make the most out of having an opponent on a platform above me?
Basically the main thing that you can do is just Utilt and Usmash. You can easily poke at their shield and attack at their feet.

You could throw bombs towards them if they are on a higher platform (Battlefield basically). A fullhop Bair or Fair could be an option as well. idk if shorthop would reach the opponent.
Uair wouldn't be considered a good option because the landing lag could leave you vulnerable to drop down aerial attacks from your opponent. At least I believe so.
 

Dyclone

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IMO, Utilt/smash are too laggy and punishable but they seem like they could work. I test SH and it depends on the move being used with Bair's 2nd hit going above and 1st hit just hitting at the height of BF's lowest platform. And both hits of SH Fair hit well over the platform. Actually all of his aerials hit above the platform. OK, Fair and Bair sound good
 

Beat11

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I find that short hop Bair out of shield helps a lot since it's safe on most shields. Plus, you have many options from a shielded Bair. You can jump, footstool, arrowcancel, Nair all before you even land. Bair pretty solid IMO.
 

Capuchon

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Perfect spacing with Link should be hard, no ? Personally, i space with Fair, Zair, jab (first hit) and boomerang, cause is range is good, i think.
 

BryE

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I find that short hop Bair out of shield helps a lot since it's safe on most shields. Plus, you have many options from a shielded Bair. You can jump, footstool, arrowcancel, Nair all before you even land. Bair pretty solid IMO.
Bair is quite solid honestly. In fact, I often use a SH Bair OoS since I think it's such a safe move.
Also, I didn't know you could footstool out of Bair. Does this work at lower percentages or something?

Perfect spacing with Link should be hard, no ? Personally, i space with Fair, Zair, jab (first hit) and boomerang, cause is range is good, i think.
Spacing with Fair, Zair, Jab, and Boomerang are definitely good options. Make sure you throw in some bombs into the mix as well.
Also, I'm not sure if this is a good idea, but perhaps you could approach with Bair since it comes out fast. This is just a suggestion so don't take my words too seriously.
 

Dyclone

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I find that short hop Bair out of shield helps a lot since it's safe on most shields. Plus, you have many options from a shielded Bair. You can jump, footstool, arrowcancel, Nair all before you even land. Bair pretty solid IMO.
which is what I said before :) (something like that) . At the same time, It is low and hits short characters. I like using short hop Bair on shield as a way to retreat
 

Capuchon

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Zoned with the projectiles, i think, can facilitate the anticipation, and the spacing, btw, the sword of link is good for spacing, and do not use it would be stupid.

Again, sorry for my english, i try xD.
 

BryE

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which is what I said before :) (something like that) . At the same time, It is low and hits short characters. I like using short hop Bair on shield as a way to retreat
SH Bair is just great in general. :D I'd like to believe that it's one of Link's best moves!

Zoned with the projectiles, i think, can facilitate the anticipation, and the spacing, btw, the sword of link is good for spacing, and do not use it would be stupid.

Again, sorry for my english, i try xD.
Yeah, If I ever met a Link player who didn't use his sword, I would have to slap them. lol
Also, your English is fairly good! It's nice to know that you are practicing it. Especially since English is one of the hardest languages to learn. So you shouldn't feel bad.
 

Dyclone

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Yeah, If I ever met a Link player who didn't use his sword, I would have to slap them. lol
Also, your English is fairly good! It's nice to know that you are practicing it. Especially since English is one of the hardest languages to learn. So you shouldn't feel bad.
Without his sword, he only has 5 moves, 4 throws and has to rely on his tether to survive. I'd like to see someone win a match like that against a good player

SH Bair is just great in general. :D I'd like to believe that it's one of Link's best moves!
Nah, I think Zair and bombs are a lot better, but Bair should be up there imo.
 

BryE

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Without his sword, he only has 5 moves, 4 throws and has to rely on his tether to survive. I'd like to see someone win a match like that against a good player
They would have to play reeeeeeeeeeeeaally safe and smart.
 

escro

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question about bombstooling.
every time i down throw the bomb and IF it hits them, i can never INTENTIONALLY footstool them. is there a trick to this? like fast falling or whatever?
 

Rizen

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SH Bair is just great in general. :D I'd like to believe that it's one of Link's best moves!
What's nice about Bair is it has big hitbubbles that are faster and last longer than Fair. All of Link's standard attacks will eat or cancel with weak-medium priority range attacks. Like fireballs, turnips, etc. As long as the range attack doesn't have 'piercing' priority (space animal/ROB lasers, sheik's needles, bananas) or explodes (bombs of course, Yoshi's eggs, etc) Link can attack the range attacks to stop them. So Bair's great if someone like Mario is SHing fireballs, you can Bair right through them.
Without his sword, he only has 5 moves, 4 throws and has to rely on his tether to survive. I'd like to see someone win a match like that against a good player
A player called 'Pulse' had a sword-free challenge some time ago. IDK if anything came of it; that just reminded me.
question about bombstooling.
every time i down throw the bomb and IF it hits them, i can never INTENTIONALLY footstool them. is there a trick to this? like fast falling or whatever?
I thought it was when you are near an opponent or OoS right next to them, you mashed jump and angled the control stick towards them to footstool them for a quick escape. Then, if you have a bomb, you can throw it down and have a guaranteed hit and combo that into Dair or Nair at low and mid %s.
 

Capuchon

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BryE said:
Yeah, If I ever met a Link player who didn't use his sword, I would have to slap them. lol
I wanted to say is that, many Link player use his sword, but not necessarily for spacing, you see ?

In general, I have the impression that, the link mainers, rests more on his Zair than anything else.
 

Beat11

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Bair is quite solid honestly. In fact, I often use a SH Bair OoS since I think it's such a safe move.
Also, I didn't know you could footstool out of Bair. Does this work at lower percentages or something?



Spacing with Fair, Zair, Jab, and Boomerang are definitely good options. Make sure you throw in some bombs into the mix as well.
Also, I'm not sure if this is a good idea, but perhaps you could approach with Bair since it comes out fast. This is just a suggestion so don't take my words too seriously.
You can't combo a footstool from a Bair. What i meant was that if they shield both hits and try to retaliate, you can footstool them before they can do anything along with the other options. I was saying that Bair is great because of it's range, speed compared to his other moves and the amount of options you have from a shielded one is great, especially with a bomb in hand.
 

escro

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the other day i was playing and i managed to do a fair whilst holding a bomb
i was getting ragdolled by my opponent so i dunno what exactly i did but later when i tried again i couldnt replicate it. i dont know.
anyone know how to do aerials whilst holding bombs?

and im not talking about ZACing, where you drop the bomb then aerial. im pretty sure i didnt drop the bomb at all.
 

Rizen

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^ my guess is that the opponent hit you which caused Link to drop the bomb right before you did the Fair, which caught the bomb.
Sometimes being hit will make Link drop his bomb but it's very unlikely and I don't know exactly why either.
 

Rizen

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Not for Link unfortunately. There is 'chaining aerials' where Link drops his bomb then catches it with Uair/Bair/Fair then if he does the same aerial before landing he will preform it without throwing his bomb. IIRC, it doesn't work with Dair or Nair but I'm not sure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttSV7kTakKs

Peach can hold her turnip (or any throwing item) and use her aerial attacks while she floats but that doesn't help Link.
 

escro

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oh i see.
that chaining aerial thing was something like what i wanted to expect...
doubt it'll have too many practical applications tho..
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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There's always the option of finding the correct information in my thread...

Chaining
How to Perform: Catch a bomb in midair with Bair, Dair or Uair then instantly use any other aerial.
Effect: Bair, Dair and Uair are special in that if you catch a bomb with them and try to do another aerial, Link won't throw the bomb. This means that you can chain aerials together while holding a bomb without throwing the bomb.
Note: You can do as many Bair's, Dair's and Uair's as you like then finish with any aerial, but if you try to do another aerial after Nair or Fair, Link will throw the bomb, breaking the chain. Something to keep in mind; If you catch the Bomb with Bair, Dair or Uair and you want to instantly throw the Bomb at your opponent, then there is a way that you can break the chain. After catching the Bomb with Bair Dair or Uair, simply throw the Bomb with the Instant Bomb Throw which you can find a little further down the list. This allows you to break the chain and throw the Bomb instead of using another aerial.
 

BryE

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I honestly didn't know anything about "Chaining" until you guys talked about it now.
I don't know if that will be useful to me with my style of gameplay for Link.

Also, I almost managed to gimp one of my friends in a friendly match several weeks ago. It was in the beginning of the match. I nearly dropped the controller out of laughter. xD

Chaser (Link) vs Dr. Yogi (Mario)
 

escro

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sorry foxy, ive read your thread. yes all of it. but i havent MEMORISED it all so yea...
edit: also that thread is more for discussing new at's raher than asking about old ones for ppl like me who arent aware of them etc.

also new question....
does tap jump on make a difference to dacusing? i can only get it around 2 or 3 times out of ten on a good day atm, but that's only if i take tap jump off. i know tap jump is bad for link but i havent committed to no tap jump yet.
with in on though, i can successfully do dacus maybe 1 in 15 tries.
sigh
 

BryE

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also new question....
does tap jump on make a difference to dacusing? i can only get it around 2 or 3 times out of ten on a good day atm, but that's only if i take tap jump off. i know tap jump is bad for link but i havent committed to no tap jump yet.
with in on though, i can successfully do dacus maybe 1 in 15 tries.
sigh
Um, it shouldn't. Or at least as far as I know it shouldn't. I keep tap jump on in certain situations so yeah. However I can DACUS without any problem with tap jump set to on.
 
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