Important Threads + Q&A

[Rizen]

Honestly, Link's move-set isn't that good and doesn't have much to work in it's favor.

fixed.
Bombs are no question the best projectile Link has, after them boomerang then arrows is what most people would say. Some people have learned to be incredibly good with arrows.
The main reasons why people who favor the boomerang do are:
Boomerang vs arrows
Good hitstun/almost non-existent hitstun even when charged.

Can be angled up (covering Link's blind spot, sort of), down, floor bounced./go a very short set distance unless charged and or SHed.

Stays on screen for a long time/doesn't

Starts locks by tripping effect/doesn't ...you can start locks but must cause the wobble trip motion some other way first.

Wind effect supports spacing and leads to occasional [FONT=&quot]surprise gimps[/FONT]/no returning properties.

When reflected Link will be pulled a little (which he can cancel with an attack) but with no hitstun or damage/worst projectile vs reflectors and space animals can sit in their reflector until Link releases the charging arrow for an guaranteed hit.

Wind clears away 'items' like Snake's grenades/Link, TL bombs etc. And destroys Snake's Dsmash mines/ loose to thrown items' priority, slower than throwing an item too.

The wind effect will push at the end of it outward motion. This is a really under rated trait that I've used many times for [FONT=&quot]gimps[/FONT]/arrows reset recoveries.
__________________________________________
Choosing one projectile over another doesn't work anyway because Link need to [FONT=&quot]combine different ones to have good results[/FONT]. His projectiles are spaced to work together.

Spoiler

This is from something I researched some time ago:
"Direct spacing notes:
Boomerang throws that are tilted, ground bounced, and strait have the same horizontal range. Tilted throws go the farthest because of horizontal and vertical distance.
[...]
Smashed boomerang reach (top to bottom) up angled, down bounced, forward throw:

Inputting angles that are in between the notches on the hole around the control stick will result in shallower throw angles. The steepness of slopes in stages will influence the bounce as long as a strait vertical barrier isn’t hit. The boomerang will travel down as far as it can travel up from the plane where Link throws it if nothing gets in the way (not shown).
[...]
Galeboomerang: Attack with far, wide, direct and indirect potential every time you use this. Returning the gale pulls opponents and will follow Link’s vertical position returning. Usually the boomerang is thrown above, or dodged by the opponent to setup pulling strategies. At the last part of the forward reach opponents will be pushed by the gale, tilting rather than smashing will shorten the boomerang’s range. Pushing opponents who are freefalling or without remaining jumps can lead to stage guarding KOs.
The push range starts-ends (measured horizontally): Tilted- 2/5-1/2 the length of Final Destination, Smashed- 1/2-2/3."

This is cool; Link's projectiles were coordinated to space with each other. After some testing I found an easy way to judge where the wind starts: (Also quoted from a guide I made long ago)

"Direct uncharged arrow and bomb spacing:

(Distance of) 1 quickdraw, 2 SH arrow, 3 jumped arrow, 4 weak bomb toss, 5 Forward bomb throw, 6 SH/jumped Forward bomb throw."
Easy way to space the wind:
The horizontal distance where the wind starts (thrown strait, ground bounced, angled up or down, from air or on the ground, it doesn't matter) is:
Tilted: 1 (where an uncharged arrow and weak bomb toss land)
Smashed: 2 (where a short hop uncharged arrow lands)
Any Link who knows how to spam can easily judge the proper distance!

Phantom boomerangs have the same wind-start spacing but will continue forward after the attack hits too. (Useless info).
The exception to the horizontal distance rule is: when the boomerang hits a slope traveling forwards the distance will be measured at the new angle's direction. Slopes making overhangs like on the bottom of BF, FD and most stages automatically start the only wind return phase.

But if I had to say which is better it's bombs>>>>boomerang>>arrows.

 

[Luigisama]

If link is holding a bomb and gets hit by mk's nado can Link z drop the bomb and stop the nado?

 

[Dyclone]

It's a better idea to use invincibomb... if you could use Z-drop, you may as well jump or something.
It won't work either way as long as Link is kept in 'nado well.

 

[Rizen]

On the rare occasions Link can DI out of the tornado he can do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7tIIDzlab8
It's good to watch the whole movie to see how that works.

 

[Capuchon]

I have another question :

in defense, what is the moves of link should use ? Many times, i use the boomerang but the animation is too slow and the opponent have the time for hit link, so i don't know which move Link should use when the opponent must approach ...

(I maybe do some mistakes in english, sorry =/)

 

[Rizen]

I have another question :

in defense, what is the moves of link should use ? Many times, i use the boomerang but the animation is too slow and the opponent have the time for hit link, so i don't know which move Link should use when the opponent must approach ...

(I maybe do some mistakes in english, sorry =/)

It's situational.
Long range camping Link should SH bombs, boomerang and partially charged arrows.

Mid range arrows become less important and Link should add Zairs and hop around a lot.

Short range Link starts to use traps like jumping over the opponent and throwing a bomb down>FF Nair or Dair. SH Zair and jab right as you land so the opponent can't rush in as easily. Spaced Bairs and Fairs>land and attack can be good if the opponent is too close to Zair. FF Nairs are great because they have good priority, long lasting attack all around Link's legs and torso and landing cancel into a ground attack. Grabs are better used in defense, after Link shields his tether grab can still grab the opponent even with shield push back. But if you are sure the opponent is ground rushing and can't jump or dodge grabs can be okay.

If there are platforms use them to moving camp and throw Link's boomerang at angles and throw bombs down or drop them as traps. FF Nair is great from platforms too. If you start Dair from high enough it will cancel before Link lands. You can often start Bair or Fair from a platform, jump FF it and hit with the second hit before you land. Utilt is a good move after you land because it is fast and covers a large area above and to the sides of Link.
This replay has examples of spacing at all distances:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCXCSAxOcY8

Remember that several attacks will eat boomerangs and arrows. VS those characters use more bombs and Zair. Bombs, Zair and Dair have great priority that will beat or at least stop every melee style attack they connect with except armor frames/invulnerability/counters/shields.
VS characters who can stop bombs, like Yoshi's eggs, other explosives (Snake), red pikmin (Olimar), rely on faster attacks like arrows/Boomerang/Zair more.

I hope that helped.

 

[Capuchon]

Thanks for your answer Rizen =).

But, i have some difficulty for put % with Link, do you have any tips for that ? Thanks =).

 

[Rizen]

Thanks for your answer Rizen =).

But, i have some difficulty for put % with Link, do you have any tips for that ? Thanks =).

I don't understand what your question is. Do you mean how should Link deal damage to the opponent, what damage%s to try to KO after, or how much damage% Link's attacks do?
Or something else?

 

[Capuchon]

I don't understand what your question is. Do you mean how should Link deal damage ?

Yep, that's right. A good way for deal damage to the opponent.

 

[Rizen]

Dealing Damage

Yep, that's right. A good way for deal damage to the opponent.

It depends on the character and player.
Most of Link's damage comes from spacing well and using the right attack for the right spacing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mtYW-saxShM#t=9s
There is no simple answer; master which moves are best in what situations and play fast without reckless spacing. Know the opponent's attacks and grab range too.

Link does have several minor tactics for dealing damage:

Spoiler

*If Link can out-spam an opponent he should take advantage of that until the opponent approaches. Spamming projectiles from a safe distance means free damage. This doesn't work if the opponent can fight well at long range too.
*Zair is relatively safe, works against most characters and deals 10% if both hits connect. Link can chain a few Zairs together with good spacing.
*Link can throw his boomerang, bomb, or fire an arrow for a ledge-stall mindgame. A little free damage if you read the opponent well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bV8q-qj7_Ac#t=130s
*At very low%s Link's Fsmash will connect with both hits for about 30%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ybfpZYC32eA#t=61s
*Jab canceling can deal extra damage. Be careful not to press your luck because good players can escape faster. Faster characters can interrupt it more easily too.
*Platform camping. Link can throw his bombs in different ways/directions, his boomerang can be angled, arrows curve down as the fly, Link's projectile game works at angles and he spams better on platforms than most opponents. Link has a long reaching sword that can platform poke, he can throw or drop bombs strait up or down and their explosions hit under platforms, Link's fast fall Nair works well in platform camping and Dair can start high enough to cancel before the landing lag.
Link has an easier time dealing damage with platforms and uneven terrain; this is a large reason why Brinstar is a good stage for him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jFjvJWqrTI
(notice Marth has a 69% lead but I platform camp and take the lead without taking any damage) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DlGW18baCsc#t=100s
*Sniping landings. If timed right and spaced safely Link has a guaranteed charged arrow or bomb hit as the opponent lands. Bombs are easier to time because their big explotions but you must be closer; arrows can hit from any distance and are good for punishing across-the-stage recoveries. Be careful of reflectors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cd5GYvHEQlE#t=71s
*For some reason jumping>throwing a bomb down>FF Nair is usually safe and works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_QvrPS80bD8#t=21s
*Locks. (make an opponent fall with a 'wobble' landing, which can be done with the boomerang, a bomb>footstool>FF Nair, by shield pushing an opponent off a platform. Other was too. Then hit them with a weak attack, Link's arrow or jab, to start a lock) Arrow lock: boomerang>immediately fire an arrow, the opponent will have a forced standup (they can't roll dodge or attack) which gives Link a free hit, usually Fsmash or Dair.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0dc7PgH3Tz8#t=224s
Jab lock: make them trip and quickly jab, the opponent will wobble again and Link can jab again to continue the lock (only his first jab works). Link has to be precise and slightly walk forward then jab each time to make the lock go to the stage edge, then charge an Fsmash. The timing's hard. An easier but shorter way is to setup the lock>jab>crouch>jab>crouch(so you don't use jab2) until the opponent is out of jab range then charge an Fsmash.
Footstool bombing: footstool a grounded opponent while holding a bomb>throw the bomb down for a guaranteed hit>follow up by footstooling them again>Dair, Dair will probably hit at low to mid %s, Nair has the best chance of hitting, or footstool>jab lock.
Locks are great to use to land KO moves and they're free damage even if you can't finish the opponent. Use them when you get the chance. Locks can be tecked and are hard to successfully start.
*Out of Shield grabs: Tether grabs like Link's do have 1 advantage: they're long enough to grab opponents out of attack ending lag even with shield push.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9BnpUYwoqxM#t=6s
If the opponent has enough damage, pummel them before throwing. Link has a guaranteed ground grab release (air isn't guaranteed)>Dsmash/jab/dash attack on Ness and Lucas. All Link's throws do 7% but Bthrow has the least ending lag and Uthrow can KO at 160-200+%.

'Hope that helps

 

[Rayboy]

The opponent will have a forced standup (they can't roll dodge or attack) which gives Link a free hit, usually Fsmash or Dair.

Oh lord thanks! Finally someone who answered my question, why everyone don't attack/roll after the boomerang. I began thinking about do this as well...
Good tricks (wow i do nearly all of them )

 

[-LzR-]

Just use Gale Boomerang. It's apparently broken and doesn't only work on wifi.

 

[BryE]

Just use Gale Boomerang. It's apparently broken and doesn't only work on wifi.

lol Are you still at this?

 

[Rizen]

Has anyone actually tried to throw a real boomerang *being stereotypical, Rizen thinks of Scabe and Foxy*? They're extremely hard to make return and don't pick up items either! They're thrown in an unusual way and the best I've done is have one go out and turn sharply then skid into the ground. It didn't even cut the grass! Link is very talented with his.

 

[BryE]

Has anyone actually tried to throw a real boomerang *being stereotypical, Rizen thinks of Scabe and Foxy*? They're extremely hard to make return and don't pick up items either! They're thrown in an unusual way and the best I've done is have one go out and turn sharply then skid into the ground. It didn't even cut the grass! Link is very talented with his.

I've tried before. And it never worked properly. lol

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Lol, actually, yes I have, and they are amazing. It's really hard to find a proper one though. (By 'proper' I mean 'actually-has-the-potential-to-return') Basically, even if you bought one that said it was the real deal, it probably isn't. I was only able to try a friend of a friends' one once. Their flight path is nothing like anything you'll see in any Link game.

 

[Huggles828]

IIRC they were actually used to hunt birds by having several guys throw them, slowly forcing flocks of birds into large nets. I also know that a left-handed boomerang is different from a right-handed boomerang (and no you can't just flip it around). They also really will chase you around if you run away from it after throwing it. Cool stuff.

 

[Capuchon]

Bair and Fair have the best hitbox in air right ?

 

[Rizen]

Bair and Fair have the best hitbox in air right ?

It depends on the situation.
NAir:

Frame 6: Hitbox out: 10 damage.
Nair is fast, has enough priority to beat most projectiles, hits all around Link's lower body and landing cancels. The best combo breaker and FF attack.
FAir:

Frame 13: Hitbox out: 9 damage, 2 frame duration.
Frame 25: Hitbox out: 12 damage, 2 frame duration.
Fair has big disjointed hitbubbles in front of Link and hits 2 times which can punish dodges. The 2nd hit is powerful and a good alternative to ground sideways KO moves. Also landing cancels.

BAir:

Frame 5: Hitbox out: 4 damage, 4 frame duration.
Frame 17: Hitbox out: 7 damage, 6 frame duration.
Bair is Link's fastest starting move and has about the same range and disjoint as Fair. It's weaker but each hitbubble has longer duration than Fair and Bair is much faster and landing cancels. Great for spacing; Bair, Zair and Nair are the aerials Link will use the most.

UAir:

Frame 10: Hitbox out: 15 damage, Angle = 80.
--At this point if you land you suffer UAir landing animation.
Frame 13: Hitboxes reduced to 13 damage.
Frame 40: End hitboxes.
Frame 46: Autocancel.
Frame 59: IASA
Uair (now my font's white for some reason) attack lasts 30 frames and will beat almost every down aerial and down special in the game because the great disjoint. It outlasts airdodges too. The downside is it only hits above Link and will have landing lag until frame 46 so Link can't SH it. I think Link can full jump Uair and avoid the lag but I'm not sure.

DAir:

Frame 13: Hitbox out: 22 damage.
--After one frame, damage reduced to 18
Frame 64: End hitboxes, Autocancel,
Frame 79: IASA
Dair has a little disjoint and lasts too long for Link to double jump and land without the long landing lag. The plus side is it easily beats airdodges with 51 frames strait of attack. It's Link's most powerful move by far. Slow fall Dair will bounce after hitting or hitting shields allowing a 2nd weaker hit. It's priority is great. Dair will bounce off charged Samus beam shots and full power auraballs. It beats or at least clashes with almost every UpSpecial making Dair great for intercepting. Dair beats MK's shuttle loop. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3b7vnz8eyMA#t=232s

ZAir:
Instant: Start searching for a ledge to tether.
Frame 5: Stop searching for a ledge to tether.

Frame 10: Hitbox out: 4 damage + extra to shields.
Frame 16: End Hitboxes.

Frame 22: Hitbox out: 6 damage + extra to shields.
Frame 24: End Hitboxes.
Zair's Link's best spacing aerial because its long, 2hit, good priority disjointed reach and it landing cancels. Zair deals 10% damage if both hits connect and never stales. The downsides are it has a small hitbubble that only his in front of Link and doesn't protect his body and has no real KO potential.

So Link's aerials are situational. I can't say one has better hitbubbles.
'hope that helps

 

[Huggles828]

Pretty much. Each aerial is different and Link doesn't have a single amazing aerial that trumps all others so you just have to gauge the situation and use the aerial you feel is best.

Some other notes:

Uair DOES autocancel if you fullhop it but you have to use uair immediately after jumping.

Dair will autocancel if you fullhop it and bounce off an enemy's shield. It has transcendent priority iirc (like MK's attacks). I find it usually trades with MK's shuttle loop, so as long as you make sure to watch for it and DI correctly Link will usually win this trade. Obviously be careful with this attack since it's laggy and is begging for a punish if you miss.

Nair's hitbox is surprisingly large, particularly underneath and behind Link (it hits out past his knee on his nonkicking foot and his sword). This can throw opponents for a loop, I recommend learning where it will hit (plus it's a good move for Link anyway).

I like fastfalling fair to get the second hit in. It's kinda awkward and can startle opponents. Learn the timing of when the two hits land, since the second hit has lots of kill potential.

LEARN BAIR's PROPERTIES. Bair is a great move. If you fastfall it so that you only get the first kick in it truly combos into a jab (which can lead to other stuff) or utilt on every character except Bowser. I think it truly combos into dsmash on certain characters too.

 

[Rizen]

Dair will autocancel if you fullhop it and bounce off an enemy's shield. It has transcendent priority iirc (like MK's attacks). I find it usually trades with MK's shuttle loop, so as long as you make sure to watch for it and DI correctly Link will usually win this trade.

A small note: Technically transcendent priority means the attack will only interact with hurtboxes and never with other hitbubbles. Dair doesn't have transcendent but that's good since it's disjoint is small but it eats tons of range attacks. Dair just has super high priority. One of my favorites is SHing at Mario's SH fireball spam and going through the fireballs for a kill. Dair can beat MK's UpB, make sure MK doesn't hit the exposed spot on Link's back; the hitbubble are slightly off center to protect Link's front.

(this is a small note for me lol)

 

[Capuchon]

Dair can beat MK's UpB, make sure MK doesn't hit the exposed spot on Link's back;

I've already done that on a MK, he was "OMG O.O !!1!!" xD but it's really risky =/.

 

[-LzR-]

Anything beats MKs upB, even nair.

 

[Rayboy]

Just another question:
Do you know any KO-combos? I mean others than Jab-Cancel to Utilt, Fsmash etc.
They should work on ~160 %, but nearly all attacks push the oppenent too far away, besides boomerang, jab and first kick of bair (arrows have to much lag too follow up).

 

[escro]

if you're asking for a "win button", that kind of thing doesnt really exist in brawl, let alone with Link.
we have to rely on slowly building up damage via our projectiles and careful spacing before we even consider trying to kill.

 

[Rizen]

Just another question:
Do you know any KO-combos? I mean others than Jab-Cancel to Utilt, Fsmash etc.
They should work on ~160 %, but nearly all attacks push the oppenent too far away, besides boomerang, jab and first kick of bair (arrows have to much lag too follow up).

What escro said. Link has a few combos but not many he can rely on:

Link has several attack chains but few true combos. Brawls has few true combos.
IIRC Link's are: Arrow/jab lock>finisher, bombstool>finisher, aerial bomb down throw>Nair and Dair with the right positioning, bomb up throw>grab>Uthrow into the bomb, situational boomerang wind return combos, grab-release dash attack/jab/Dsmash on Ness/Lucas, Fsmash1>Fsmash2 at very low %s. Well spaced projectile spam can combo into other projectiles is the first hits. Throw a bomb into kirby/DDD/Wario's mouth during their suck/bite and they'll be stunned a shot time but long enough to get a free hit in.

Zair>followup, Jab cancels, at low %s Utilt>Utilt or Usmash often work but aren't true combos because DI.

The locks in red are Link's best KO setups.

 

[Capuchon]

Arrow > Smash ? It really work ?

 

[Rizen]

Arrow > Smash ? It really work ?

No, I meant an arrow lock.
"Locks. (make an opponent fall with a 'wobble' landing, which can be done with the boomerang, a bomb>footstool>FF Nair, by shield pushing an opponent off a platform. Other ways too. Then hit them with a weak attack, Link's arrow or jab, to start a lock) Arrow lock: boomerang>immediately fire an arrow, the opponent will have a forced standup (they can't roll dodge or attack) which gives Link a free hit, usually Fsmash or Dair.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...PgH3Tz8#t=224s "

 

[Capuchon]

I didn't notice that, indeed, sorry.

 

[_Saint_]

Just like Rizen said. I'm no good at bomb footstool lock, but I use arrow lock to finish people off at high percents and keep my spacing. Just nail them with a boomerang and then lock them with an arrow. The most common I've seen is Arrow Lock > Spin Attack... but what also works if you're too far away to run over is to Arrow Lock > DACUS... You gotta make sure you don't DACUS too long or too short though, and make sure you charge it up enough for full KO potential...just make sure you don't charge it too long that they can block or dodge your attack.

 

[Capuchon]

Many stages have plateform, so, in general, just throw a bombe and read the opponent with Uair, Fair, or even Dair work. however, it's really hard to stay in the plateform without get a hit, i've don't find a good way for camp in the plateform, if anyone know, tell me.

 

[Rayboy]

Yeah thanks!
The bomb-> Dair combo is often luck cause i don't know in what direction the oppenent flys.
And because i don't have many (one Ike exectly) human players, the level 9-KI always techs a boomerang hit...
And the bombfootstool... yeah i have much to learn here

 

[Capuchon]

The bomb-> Dair combo is often luck cause i don't know in what direction the oppenent flys.

It depends, if the bomb fell to right, the opponent will goes to left, vice versa.

the level 9-KI always techs a boomerang hit...

Even if he tech the boomerang, i think we can do a grab or something, but i'm not sure, if someone can tell me if we can, thanks.

 

[_Saint_]

I would play against Level 7s rather than Level 9s if you need to practice on CPUs... The reason being that the tech skill and timing of the Level 9s is way too perfect to be human. That doesn't mean they are better than human players or that it's impossible for human players to play like that, it is just the timing of the 9s is something that you would never actually play against. Granted some of the top players have extremely good timing, but the level of the 9s is just not possible for a normal player.

 

[Rizen]

Many stages have plateform, so, in general, just throw a bombe and read the opponent with Uair, Fair, or even Dair work. however, it's really hard to stay in the plateform without get a hit, i've don't find a good way for camp in the plateform, if anyone know, tell me.

Platform camping?
Use all 3 projectiles (especially bombs), FF Nair is good too. In general spam using different angles and bomb throws/drops as much as possible while hopping to different platforms. Move around quickly but try to land on the next platform quickly and be careful with your double jump. Use normal fighting tactics as needed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxvPxetn2As
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dxCq8RccGU
(salty about the 3:04 SD)

Yeah thanks!
And because i don't have many (one Ike exectly) human players, the level 9-KI always techs a boomerang hit...
And the bombfootstool... yeah i have much to learn here

Wifi can be a good alternative.

Lol, CPUs are god tier at teching.
A good way to practice jablocks is to choose a big character for your opponent in training, go to FD, set the CPU to control with a tiny amount of damage and stand near>boomerang>jab>practice lock (I am not very good at jab locks lol). But if the CPU is on 'stand' they will tech everything.

 

[_Saint_]

Lol what do you think the best way to practice bomb footstools would be? That's something I need to learn.

 

[Huggles828]

Lol what do you think the best way to practice bomb footstools would be? That's something I need to learn.

Practice

For srs though, Practice Mode would be a pretty good way. Once you've hit them with the bomb, the only thing your opponent could control is DI. The rest is you making sure you get the footstool and following it up. You could try it at different %s to gauge how fast they fly or maybe set them to jump or something. After that it's learning how to apply it in a match and identifying when to use it.

When I jab lock I try to count in my head to a rhythm. "1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 1 and 2..." just learn the timing. Unlike CPR where the timing is easy (ironically, your compressions should be to the beat of "Another One Bites the Dust" ) I have yet to find a good song or tune to associate with jab locks.

 

[_Saint_]

Practice
Unlike CPR where the timing is easy (ironically, your compressions should be to the beat of "Another One Bites the Dust" ) I have yet to find a good song or tune to associate with jab locks.

lmao...!!! I'm CPR certified and I've never heard or thought of that one before... but yeah I just did in my head and you're right... GENIUS

 

[Rizen]

Lol what do you think the best way to practice bomb footstools would be? That's something I need to learn.

(Read video description)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90gqoqtaajo
Made specially for you.

 

[_Saint_]

Lol that's cool Rizen... But I was actually talking about the technique where you jump over the enemy, throw a bomb down at them, footstool, then FF Nair... Is that called something different lol? Never tried this technique before though! I'll keep it in mind for an OoS move if I'm holding a bomb.