I'm sorry to say this but

[Takeover1806]

I personally think Oli beats snake.

As a top snake player, I am not saying this out of ignorance or due to frustration.
I'm saying this off my experiences against Oli.
I've thought of as the mu as 50/50 for the longest but now starting to think if both characters play the mu perfectly, snake cannot do nothing.
I feel that the only reason I beat Ps is because he made some horrible mistakes oli gets punished for hard. But when he's on his game idk how snake does it, he literally has 0 options, gets combo'd, can't camp, and potentially dies earlier than usual.

To all the snake players, I personally recommend finding a secondary because I'm with Ally on how the mu is. The only character that can limits snake options.


How do you guys feel?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I originally thought it was even.

Then I played L_Cancel several times and got two stocked consistently.

Then I studied the MU for a LONG time.

Then I played more Olimars.

Then I raged.

Then I determined this MU is in Olimar's favor undoubtedly. I'm tore between 45-55 and 40-60 in terms of ratios. But ratios don't really matter.

Yeah Oli beats us.

 

[L_Cancel]

I still feel like the MU is even. o:

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

And there he goes with the trolling again!

 

[Underload]

I won't issue my final opinion until I play some good Olimars, get mad, then learn the matchup and play them again.

 

[napZzz]

oli is a solid counter to snake, I'll stand by that no matter what

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Falco is a solid counter to Olimar.

 

[etecoon]

olimar is not the only character that can limit snake's options, he does potentially do it better than anyone though and I think this MU is at least 6:4 in his favor

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I won't issue my final opinion until I play some good Olimars, get mad, then learn the matchup and play them again.

That's how you do it

Falco is a solid counter to Olimar.

I've started using Falco for this MU also. I need to play L again but so far I like this MUCH better than Snake. We can actually camp.

olimar is not the only character that can limit snake's options, he does potentially do it better than anyone though and I think this MU is at least 6:4 in his favor

I don't think its any worse than 40-60 but I think we can all agree Olimar wins this one.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think Snake beats Oli 6/4

 

[OnlyUseMeNades]

I think its just about even. However, I have yet to play good Olimars. So I remain biased.

What makes you guys say he can control all of Snake's options?

 

[napZzz]

I think Snake beats Oli 6/4

I think you're a troll

 

[Takeover1806]

Well the main reason I think people thought it was 50:50 before because us snakes never really lost to any olimar really. Tbh though, they were a lack of great olimars before and none of the olimar players really made a dent in brawl until Brood came. Plus there were wayyyyy more **** snakes than olimars players by far so we could never really measure the mu accurately. Now that Olimar's are learning how to utilize his moveset better and learned more of there mu's, olimar players are just getting better in general. That's why we see Brood placing 2nd at a national and Rich Brown 2nd at MLG.

Personally I don't think olimar not as good as a character but he does super well against snake. I use to say PS is the only olimar that can even beat me but now olimars are starting to adapt new strategies.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Personally I don't think olimar not as good as a character but he does super well against snake.

Caution English Nazee Approaches!
Double negative ;P

 

[Bizkit047]

The only real problem I seem to have in this matchup is getting around fsmash spam for some reason. I can get around grab spam easily, but that fsmash spam limits all my approaches to where I have to hope I can approach with cooked nades. Other than that, I dunno my opinion on this matchup goes back and forth. The only Olimars I seem to lose to are Rich Brown/Dabuz/Logic. IcyLight I'm pretty consistent against, and have beaten others like Denti/L-Cancel/Cook (was in friendlies).

Hard to say, but I have a lot of experience in this matchup but I find that I have to "remember" how to do the matchup or I get *****, cuz Snake can't make many mistakes. Fsmash spam is all I really have trouble with though. I notice when I have huge leads on Olimars that they close the lead really fast by spamming it lmao. Other than that it's probably evenish to 55:45 Olimar if the Olimar's drop the scrub mentality of a dthrow = a stock.

 

[Takeover1806]

@ Xeylode There were way more errors in that post than that. lmao

@ Bizkit usually snakes get surprised by f-smash if they dash toward olimar without being fully prepared.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Does any of our attacks that works well enough to beat out pikmin in a grab or smash? I never really tried countering them by timing an attack, but when trying it with marth, Dtilt > grab attempts. Snake is no swordsman, but does any well timed attack work beat out those pikmin?

 

[Takeover1806]

Does any of our attacks that works well enough to beat out pikmin in a grab or smash? I never really tried countering them by timing an attack, but when trying it with marth, Dtilt > grab attempts. Snake is no swordsman, but does any well timed attack work beat out those pikmin?

If an olimar f-smash's, snake has to up-tilt on the same frame oli does f-smash to beat it.
Other than that snakes moves are too slow to beat his smash attacks.

But you can f-tilt pressure olimar because oli's grab have no grab armor frames.
So you can hit Olimar while he is grabbing you.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

^The above statement is so true. We really need to play around with that more. You CAN stop Olimar grabs.

Also I hate using U-Tilt to kill Pikmin in this MU because I want it to kill as early as possible. Of course the problem is that its our best move for getting latched Pikmin off you. Though at times its not really a big deal with Pikmin are latched on you if you're able to exploit an opening.

Unless they're white. Kill whitey

 

[UltimateRazer]

No no no no no no. I've skimmed through this thread and disagree. I actually think it is 55:45 snake. And yes ive fought plenty of Olimars including top ones like logic and rich and have beaten them. Snake does have options to camp and get inside olimar. Just jab the pikmin and boom they die even when on your body. I do agree with bizkit and think the hardest part is when you try to get in and they fsmash spam. Just know what to do and it can be 55:45 snake.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think Snake beats Oli 6/4

I think you're a troll

...

No no no no no no. I've skimmed through this thread and disagree. I actually think it is 55:45 snake. And yes ive fought plenty of Olimars including top ones like logic and rich and have beaten them. Snake does have options to camp and get inside olimar. Just jab the pikmin and boom they die even when on your body. I do agree with bizkit and think the hardest part is when you try to get in and they fsmash spam. Just know what to do and it can be 55:45 snake.

Nappy thinks you're a troll

 

[AllyKnight]

No no no no no no. I've skimmed through this thread and disagree. I actually think it is 55:45 snake. And yes ive fought plenty of Olimars including top ones like logic and rich and have beaten them. Snake does have options to camp and get inside olimar. Just jab the pikmin and boom they die even when on your body. I do agree with bizkit and think the hardest part is when you try to get in and they fsmash spam. Just know what to do and it can be 55:45 snake.

Jab doesn't kill em all the time, sometimes it misses, so the white pikman might get some extra +2 hits.

Pikmen have HP, a purple one won't die, unless I'm incorrect. I still think its 55-45 Oli atleast.

 

[UltimateRazer]

Jab doesn't kill em all the time, sometimes it misses, so the white pikman might get some extra +2 hits.

Pikmen have HP, a purple one won't die, unless I'm incorrect. I still think its 55-45 Oli atleast.

I was really trying to aim for use jab when they throw them at you. Stops them before they hit. Purples are different since they are fat. True it doesn't hit all the time. Second option would be utilt which gets a large hit box. If not then they hit it on the right spot which then you shield. That alone doesn't define it to be 55-45 oli though

 

[Attila_]

About a year ago, I had a few training sessions with brood. He ***** my snake really badly, but my ics (secondary) could take the odd game off him. Even though my snake is waaaaay better than my ics, I genuinely felt that I couldn't do anything as snake. You can't camp, you can't approach from the ground. So you're supposed to... Ummm... Approach from the air? Lololol

Oli remains snakes worst mu IMO; the only one of our actual bad mus that makes matters worse by outcamping us.

 

[False]

Lolimars **** us.. They shut down all our options and we're forced to approach them.

Just pick up a secondary..

 

[UltimateRazer]

Lolimars **** us.. They shut down all our options and we're forced to approach them.

Just pick up a secondary..

No, they don't.

 

[Kuraudo]

Use Sonic.

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

Pikmen have HP, a purple one won't die, unless I'm incorrect.

I believe the purple ones have like 14 or 15 HPs. They have it listed in the olimar guide somewhere. With olimar you kinda have to treat every pikman like a fox laser and just run through them. You need to pay attention to where the purple one is in their line up. If your opponent doesn't have one press your attack hard.

 

[Takeover1806]

No no no no no no. I've skimmed through this thread and disagree. I actually think it is 55:45 snake. And yes ive fought plenty of Olimars including top ones like logic and rich and have beaten them. Snake does have options to camp and get inside olimar. Just jab the pikmin and boom they die even when on your body. I do agree with bizkit and think the hardest part is when you try to get in and they fsmash spam. Just know what to do and it can be 55:45 snake.

I mean keep doing what you do if you know how to beat olimar.


I mean I've beaten PS a couple a times and I beat other olimars. Olimar is one of the mu's I know most but I think I could get way better at the mu. But I still feel fighting rich brown, dabuz, and PS is just a big gamble. I agree with you that there are options to get inside oli but that is dependent on how well you read Oli and pressure them. But Oli has too many options where if snake makes simple mistakes, you get combo'd, rack up damage fast, he controls the ground when he spaces everything right, and can kill you with stupid stuff.

IDK but I would rather make it easier on myself using a secondary that isn't as stressful.
Believe me in tournament, that mu is more stressful than any other mu.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

It's like an endless barrage of Skittles being thrown at you. Terrible.

 

[UltimateRazer]

Takeover - I guess we are at a disagreement. Also, I've heard you have been stepping it up with snake. Good stuff, any vids??

It's like an endless barrage of Skittles being thrown at you. Terrible.

Yes, that you can punch and they vanish.

 

[Dabuz]

your snake, hit olimar 3 times, edge-guard him properly. Use troll-face

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

you're snake, hit olimar 3 times, edge-guard him properly. Use troll-face

fixed and it's possible but your down b is really good

 

[Takeover1806]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=292464

Meh doin alright gotta alot to improve.

But back to topic, I guess we do disagree.

Dabuz it's that easy.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Once again the Snake boards get another one of my 1k milestone posts.

3k posts yay-uh

And Olimar is gay. That's all I have left to contribute to this thread.

 

[Bizkit047]

Yup, a lot of Snakes don't know how to deal with pikmin throw and just end up eating tons of damage. I usually jab the pikmin off if they latch on. If it's a white that's latched to your back, you can just shield all the hits. Just be prepared for Olimar to take advantage of that. Purple ones are annoying, though. It's a pain to get in if there are a few purples, since they also blow up nades doing lots of damage to yourself if you're not careful.

 

[etecoon]

your snake, hit olimar 3 times, edge-guard him properly. Use troll-face

snake


...

edge guard


...
















****

I just lost the game

 

[MoNrA.1]

Marth is my pocket :3

 

[Wilmenz]

When he starts to Fsmash spam, run to the spam, PS it and Ftilt

 

[ScAtt77]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=289213