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Ike's Matchups

Leirkov

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Mar 18, 2014
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Tips against Ness? I cant avoid all his cheesy crap, eventually i get hit by PK fire and into a janky combo D:
Friend mains Ness and is pretty good, challenging top local players (including a regional/national level Ness) with his play. I can tell you this from experience as he's been my #1 practice partner so far.

1) PK Fire = shield, jump, spotdodge, roll away, etc. Avoid it. Don't get hit by it. But also understand how close Ness is to you. Sometimes you can use PK Fire's pillar to buffer a roll (now that there's more delay between hits) and bait him into grabbing you so you can reset the situation.

2) If he uses PK Fire, there's a long commitment to it (20+ active frames) so punish if you dodge it.

3) Throws are your friend. Throws at low % on Ness lead to nair/uair juggles easily. Ness will die to uair fairly early. Fthrow-fair is still bread and butter as well.

4) Get Ness offstage. If he's a habitual player, PK Thunder reads are easy. You can either gimp the projectile by being directly above Ness, if he likes to sweetspot the ledge, you can charge a Forward Smash/Fair. If he up-b's out of position like a spacey, just go out and whack him with literally anything. Even Counter is effective vs Ness if he tries to go directly on stage.

5) Small stages like Yoshis and Warioware (that normally favor you) also favor Ness. Beware of his tight spacing and adjust accordingly. I personally like FD and PS2 the most against Ness.
 

SlimStealthy

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Friend mains Ness and is pretty good, challenging top local players (including a regional/national level Ness) with his play. I can tell you this from experience as he's been my #1 practice partner so far.

1) PK Fire = shield, jump, spotdodge, roll away, etc. Avoid it. Don't get hit by it. But also understand how close Ness is to you. Sometimes you can use PK Fire's pillar to buffer a roll (now that there's more delay between hits) and bait him into grabbing you so you can reset the situation.

2) If he uses PK Fire, there's a long commitment to it (20+ active frames) so punish if you dodge it.

3) Throws are your friend. Throws at low % on Ness lead to nair/uair juggles easily. Ness will die to uair fairly early. Fthrow-fair is still bread and butter as well.

4) Get Ness offstage. If he's a habitual player, PK Thunder reads are easy. You can either gimp the projectile by being directly above Ness, if he likes to sweetspot the ledge, you can charge a Forward Smash/Fair. If he up-b's out of position like a spacey, just go out and whack him with literally anything. Even Counter is effective vs Ness if he tries to go directly on stage.

5) Small stages like Yoshis and Warioware (that normally favor you) also favor Ness. Beware of his tight spacing and adjust accordingly. I personally like FD and PS2 the most against Ness.
Thanks for the info. PK fire is just just so low-risk high-reward it seems. I avoid most of them but they kinda just spam it till it hits me. and it seems like ness also has an easy time mashing nairs/dairs out of my combos.
 

King of Hoboz

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If that's the case, you're not spacing well. You can combo Ness/Peach and other characters who can mash Nairs by Nair-Planing them.

Just hit with the tip of nairs and continue doing that as you carry them off stage.
 

SlimStealthy

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If that's the case, you're not spacing well. You can combo Ness/Peach and other characters who can mash Nairs by Nair-Planing them.

Just hit with the tip of nairs and continue doing that as you carry them off stage.
Ah, ive been aiming to hit with the hilt for my nairs, which is probably costing me enough frames so that i get hit out of my combos. Thanks.
 

Slaudial

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Ah, ive been aiming to hit with the hilt for my nairs, which is probably costing me enough frames so that i get hit out of my combos. Thanks.
yeah ness/peach nairs shouldn't be hitting you like that with the size of your ike's sword. Doesn't even half to be a straight up combo obviously. Just space them out.
 

MLGF

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So, went to tournament today. Want to ask about a few matchups.

Ike vs. Luigi
Ike vs. Marth

Both of these characters were my losses. I tore through every other match with relative ease.

Beginning with the Marth matchup, I got forward throw chain grabbed a lot. This also led to dtilt/fsmash ledge gimps with relative ease. I didn't really know what to do, obviously DIing in doesn't work but Marth can also regrab on reaction. Is that a guaranteed chain throw for Marth? I figured out quickly that uair can juggle quite easily and also kill early. As much as I like getting bairs / shield stab crossup bair/nairs I had a hard time not getting grab comboed. I could deal with mostly everything else - uair/utilt combos I can DI rather well. But the neutral and avoiding the Marth's goal in the matchup to not be grabbed is where I struggle.

The Luigi matchup was weird. I destroyed his first two stocks then he brought it back quickly. Both of us are very mobile and can bait easily in neutral, but I feel as if Luigi's moves are very safe and he's naturally slippery so it's harder for Ike to get in. But uair juggle works so well and Ike's aerial pressure vs Luigi is very good.
I feel like it's my neutral game that suffers in a lot of matchups. Based on the above is that enough to try and feel out the issue I have in these matchups?
http://www.twitch.tv/gameunderground/c/5713043

This as my first Luigi game ever so I made a few mistakes myself (Luigi's really floaty so constantly going to QD chaingrabs offstage was a bad call. Shoulda just went to QD attack or Reverse Bair instead of constantly going for it, don't follow that). I went Ike game one here, then went Marth when I realized he wasn't a threat :p.
Take a look at how I punish him and use my range to get Luigi in constant bad positions, and that I never let go of Luigi once I get in.

As for Marth... I'd say both you and Marth have to really respect each others range, a lot. It's a lot about positioning and never losing an advantageous position. I don't recommend QD AT ALL in neutral (even though it's fun), because Marth can and should be able to punish whatever option you choose with a F-Smash. Not even the relatively safe QD Wavedash is smart, just play Marth's game better, it's not the hardest thing TBH. QD to pressure and read it really great and Marth can't play against it. So just get in 'dare.
 
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WhinoTheRhino

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On another note, does anyone know how to edgeguard Squirtle? I lost a set to a Squirtle yesterday and was having trouble dealing with his up B.
This is a somewhat late reply, but Squirtle's recovery is one of the few times Eruption is useful. Eruption is relatively easy to time against Squirtle's up B and Eruption's armour will power right through and hit Squirtle straight into the air, and will kill relatively reliably as well due to Squirtle's low weight.
 

Chef2

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Thanks for the info. PK fire is just just so low-risk high-reward it seems. I avoid most of them but they kinda just spam it till it hits me. and it seems like ness also has an easy time mashing nairs/dairs out of my combos.
Mentioned this earlier but I consistently beat a great ness player at the monthly almost purely by staying just outside of ness' dash attack/SH fair range and hoping he chucks out a PK fire. When he tosses out the inevitable PK fire I do one of two things:
1) if I reacted quickly enough, I'll SH over the pk fire, fast fall and unleash a grounded QD, usually into a grab
2)if I was a little slow on the trigger, I'll SH, but NOT fastfall. Instead I'll just aerial QD over the PK fire and smack him with an aerial QD attack. It doesn't usually lend a follow up unless he reacted slow, but it's a free punish. If you aerial QD at the apex of shorthop, you'll still hit ness with the QD attack.

Tl;dr Focus on staying about a battlefield platform away from ness, then be quick on SH QD's to punish pk fires.

Granted the guy doesn't PK fire me anymore so I'm back to basic ike stuff but it's still a great game plan against people that don't know you so well.
 

Leirkov

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Tips for 3.5 Sonic?
Avoid homing attack. Range was buffed so it's very good. spaced aggression out with aerials, nair/fair. Dtilt > Bair also works as a finisher on Sonic.

Let Sonic be aggressive on you and retaliate when the moment arises. Sonic is pretty easy to combo as Ike.
 

Chef2

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Tips for 3.5 Sonic?
Maybe it's just me but I find sonic one of Ikes trickier match ups. Granted there's only one sonic I regularly play against but I find it tricky cause:
1) Sonic has a great bait and punish game. Ike gets baited and punished easier than most. Strong, lingering hitboxes counter sonics approaches (fox/Falco nairs and bairs, luigi nair, etc) and although ike is strong his attacks have few active frames.
2)Sonic has a get out of jail free up-B from Ike's combos, similar to game and watch. The spring, if timed, can gimp aether.
3) Sonic also gets grabs fairly easily if he mixes up spin dashing with running JC grabs. They come fast as sonic runs almost twice as fast as falcon. He gets a lot of conversions off throws too. Uthrow->aerial, dthrow->tech chase, fthrow/bthrow->aerial gimp off stage at low %.

I find in our favour is
1) Even with up-B, we can still combo sonic hard
2) As always, edge guarding. It only takes one fair on a homing attack or up b to gimp sonic. His up b really lingers before grabbing ledge and has no hitbox to cover sonic, abuse that.
3) Sonic has some of the shortest range in the game considering he curls into a ball for a lot of attacks. Ike has huge range. However, Sonic ftilt is quick with good range but he can't convert.
4) QD beats spin dash. This was one of the only times I used the QD auto attack, but that's gone so you just have to time it. He can jump the QD and punish though.
5) Sonic lacks kill power, ike is heavy with solid recovery.

I think a big thing here is to not get frustrated. You will get baited and punished.

A few extras, your up air beats anything he does coming down, including dair, try to fish for that if he's knocked high or used up b to escape. If he is using homing attack to approach, which I think is bad, just shield it then nair OoS. Get centre stage and corner him. Sonic working with 3/4 of a stage is much worse than only having half a stage or less. Small stages are your friend!
 

X0dus

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Thank you guys so much. I have had this block against this Sonic player for months and I finally beat him.
 

TheGravyTrain

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1) PK Fire = shield, jump, spotdodge, roll away, etc. Avoid it. Don't get hit by it. But also understand how close Ness is to you. Sometimes you can use PK Fire's pillar to buffer a roll (now that there's more delay between hits) and bait him into grabbing you so you can reset the situation.

The part about the delay between hits is incorrect. There is less delay between the hits, just a a shorter duration overall.
 

X0dus

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So I don't think I've ever beaten a good falcon. Advice? I just don't know how to deal with his movement and pressure.
You want to do your best to keep him out so do things like Nair and constantly try to outspace him and play keep away, he is also really easy to juggle so down throw, up-throw, Nair juggles, etc is pretty effective and try your best to keep him off stage because when he is recovering, use forward tilt aimed downward or neutral B and try to learn where he sweetspots because if he isn't perfect with his sweetspots, it is a free kill for Ike and even if he is, you can just grab the ledge and its a free kill. Walk-off Fair is also really effective against him.

And so I don't double post, what do you guys think about Falco vs. Ike? I don't know much about the match-up. It seems like it would be bad and I have a pocket Marth just in case, but if it is actually about even, then I will just stick to Ike.
 
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Chef2

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You want to do your best to keep him out so do things like Nair and constantly try to outspace him and play keep away, he is also really easy to juggle so down throw, up-throw, Nair juggles, etc is pretty effective and try your best to keep him off stage because when he is recovering, use forward tilt aimed downward or neutral B and try to learn where he sweetspots because if he isn't perfect with his sweetspots, it is a free kill for Ike and even if he is, you can just grab the ledge and its a free kill. Walk-off Fair is also really effective against him.

And so I don't double post, what do you guys think about Falco vs. Ike? I don't know much about the match-up. It seems like it would be bad and I have a pocket Marth just in case, but if it is actually about even, then I will just stick to Ike.
I find Falco rough. Possibly Ike's worst matchup? Especially a laser campy Falco forcing you to approach. I find Ike's long jump squat, high shorthop and slow jump make it difficult to maneuver around the lasers unless you have some convenient platforms. Ike being tall really compliments falcos vertical combo game. One hit and your getting smacked around the stage. Falco I play vs. likes his dsmash, it sends ike into that tough recovery spot even at like 80%.

On the flip side you have zero to death chain grabs and almost free edge guards, but with the stage list and ban meta your game 1 is probably gonna be on a platform stage.

Both characters combo eachother hard but Falco has such an easy time in neutral I just think it's bad for ike. I personally switch to my secondary wolf for this one.
 

X0dus

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Falco I play vs. likes his dsmash, it sends ike into that tough recovery spot even at like 80%.

On the flip side you have zero to death chain grabs and almost free edge guards, but with the stage list and ban meta your game 1 is probably gonna be on a platform stage.
I kind of expected D-Smash to work well. I assume the most you can do is DI towards the wall and tech it if you are lucky. And is there a video of the zero to death chain grab or could you tell me what the combo is? I have trouble chain grabbing Falco compared to Fox.
 

Moy

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I kind of expected D-Smash to work well. I assume the most you can do is DI towards the wall and tech it if you are lucky. And is there a video of the zero to death chain grab or could you tell me what the combo is? I have trouble chain grabbing Falco compared to Fox.
I think the chaingrab on Falco lasts until about 45%, maybe a little longer since Falco falls faster than Fox. For me, the biggest thing about it is knowing exactly when you can act out of uthrow in order to land the regrab. I'll mess up the cg on Falcon because of this, due to him being heavier than the spacies.
 

King of Hoboz

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Should check Metroid vs Sethlon in the video thread for that, Winner's Semi and Loser's Final.

From the couple Roys I've fought, the semi-fast faller status makes him a perfect punching bag for a few zero-deaths. He's probably the easiest character to go off stage and keep off. Though, I haven't played enough good Roys to come up with anything other than that :/ Well, that and Dash Dance + CC + D-Tilt is a very dangerous thing to go up against and should be avoided as much as you can (namely the CC+D-Tilt).
 

Hinichii.ez.™

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Didn't get the chance to see those vids, but I'm understanding this better. Shield drop nairs are really helpful when he puts you on a platform. And zero to deaths aren't uncommon. What are the most commonly agreed on bad/hard MU? I assume fox and maybe falco are there. Perhaps diddy, but who else?
 

Chef2

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I kind of expected D-Smash to work well. I assume the most you can do is DI towards the wall and tech it if you are lucky. And is there a video of the zero to death chain grab or could you tell me what the combo is? I have trouble chain grabbing Falco compared to Fox.
Well the zero to death chain grab isn't really zero to death without juggling afterwards. Like Moy said, you chain grab to about 45% then uthrow. Unless you're at the edge, your gonna need a little more damage, so after the uthrow, you should be able to nair/uair Falco 1-2 times before hitting him with Bair or fair (again, depends on how much damage you need to launch him off stage from where your at).

When deciding between nair or uair, I nair first as the timing is a little tight to toss out the slower uair. After the nair I look to uair. It does more damage, so more hitstun, and sends more vertically as long as you don't get the tip. Nair second works fine too but if you wanna optimize try for a uair. Two juggles should put Falco around 80% so now he's ready to get faired or baired off stage.

You need the open space of fd, green hill, smashville, maybe even yoshis island to do this though. Platforms give Falco a chance to tech. You can cover smaller platforms with uair or nair (or if your feeling hype fsmash covers platforms pretty well) or jump and waveland onto the platform and look to regrab.
 

Soylent

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Any tips for dealing with Yoshi? I'm not sure how to properly edgeguard him and his crouch canceled down smashes are terrifying.

I'm pretty new to the game competitively so any general tips on dealing with aggressive levels of crouch canceling as Ike are also appreciated.
 

X0dus

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What are the most commonly agreed on bad/hard MU? I assume fox and maybe falco are there. Perhaps diddy, but who else?
On mid levels of play, its horrible for Fox but on high levels of play, there is a lot of debate. From talking to DJNintendo and my friends who play Fox, that Ike counterpicks Fox, like hard counterpicks him but I've heard from Medz, Metroid, and (I just asked him this weekend) Mew2king that its about even to slightly in Foxs favor but they also say that Fox and Ike pretty much destroy each other.
I don't know about Falco because on paper, it seems bad but I don't have enough experience, not many go Falco against my Ike, and all Falco matches I ever had were kind of mixed. DJNintendo believes Ike obliterates all spacies so take that as you will.
3.5 Diddy way more tolerable. I would say its even to slightly in Ike's advantage.
I hear Samus is a horrible match-up but there are barely any Samus players in my area so I can't say.
I think DDD is probably Ike's worst match-up.
I think Game and Watch is kind of bad because he escapes all of Ike's stuff but he also dies super early and the G&W players I've met say I'm like the only one who can kill them early, so it might not be as bad as I think it is.
Some people (Mostly Reddit) say Shiek, I don't think so, DJNintendo says its in Ike's favor and most Shieks I've met hate the match-up and thinks its really bad for her.
Sonic is kind of hard, but that's probably just me.
That's all the ones I can think of.
 

King of Hoboz

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Didn't get the chance to see those vids, but I'm understanding this better. Shield drop nairs are really helpful when he puts you on a platform. And zero to deaths aren't uncommon. What are the most commonly agreed on bad/hard MU? I assume fox and maybe falco are there. Perhaps diddy, but who else?
Yeah, going to parrot some of what X0dus said, between all the spacies, Fox is actually the hardest one. I think Ike struggles the most against anyone who far and away out-mobilizes him. Moving around Falco is surprisingly easy and gimping is rather easy, and Wolf can be stuffed more readily.

My list of harder match-ups:
Sonic- In 3.02, I would play Sonics who were worse than me, but would surprisingly have a harder time with my Ike than I would if I sandbagged with Bowser. Not sure how to explain it, but his mobility might just be the hardest one to predict or place hitboxes out fast enough against.
Fox- Has the most deadly punish game out of these I think, but yeah, Ike can 0-death him in a fashion similar to Marth, and I personally find it easier with platform support.
Captain Falcon (?) - Not sure how to explain it, but this character gives me a lot of trouble when I'm not playing totally on point.
Shiek (?) - I only say this cause I've never felt like I've done super well against a Shiek, though the Shiek's I have played either A) Ridiculously good or B) Play a very particular defensive game that I for some reason just can't wrap my head around without punching myself in the face and talking to myself openly.

In the cases of Samus and GnW, I find them annoying, but I'm incline to think I struggle some against them because of my personal playstyle.

In the case of DDD, I played Heusyees (I am butchering that name), we spent game 1 not able to kill the other because we didn't understand immediately how to edgeguard the other and ****, why is DDD surviving everything! It was close regardless. Game 2, destroyed, he figured that a Waddle covering the deep recovery paired with an aerial beats almost all of Ike's options off stage.
Yeah, I could see how this is an awful match-up- but you should probably ask Metroid first.

Overall though, I don't think Ike really struggles too much against anyone in the cast with the right polish. Anyone he does, he gives them an equally hard time against.
 

Moy

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I'll definitely agree that D3 has the upper hand on Ike. Watching Ripple play Metroid at SMYM at 2am when everyone was dead tired looked like a struggle. The last D3 I played almost beat me despite my confidence against him.

Knowing Metroid, he might say a lot of matchups are even. At least, he has a history of doing that.

And Ike definitely has the advantage against Samus, especially with the tether changes in 3.5. @ pooch182 pooch182 can explain it well.
 

pooch182

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Speaking from the perspective of a Samus main with reasonable knowledge about Ike, I would like to express my personal distaste for this match up. Ike is just far too well suited to deal with the spacing that Samus needs to thrive.

Basically, you've got a massive sword. Samus has a history of disliking those, especially with her recent nerfs to Zair which basically removed any sort of outspacing against the FE characters. That big sword you've got, that thing kicks like a mule. Any time Samus gets hit, she may as well have kissed the front of a semi-truck plowing down the freeway at 90MPH. Samus has a history of disliking getting hit that hard (**** you, Ganon). You've got an incredible grab game and enough aerial range to follow up on throws all the way to mid-percents. That's a huge deal. Honestly, you've got no idea how big that is in any MU against Samus. If you can confirm off of a throw, you're gonna be having a great time.

Samus is inherently campy, and she likes her space. Ike is inherently rude and butts into peoples personal space. He does so through the use of his quick draw. Quick draw approaches are very scary to deal with. You've got the option to grab me if I shield, hit me if I'm landing or throwing out a move, bait stuff out of me and then WD back or in place and then punish, etc. Not to mention the tech chase game is godlike.

Issues that I see Ike having against Samus. If you don't have good platform movement and you don't inherently understand how to combat missile play, you're gonna struggle a lot. You've got to play with a lot of wavelands and you need to understand that you can approach through missiles with neutral air and close the gap. Sometimes, you can abuse the hitlag of a missile and just forward air through it and wreck Samus' ****. If you quickdraw stupidly, or are heavily reliant on it (that's pretty much like 80% of Ike mains, tbh), Samus can just lay bombs and really force you to do stuff that you don't want to be doing in the neutral game. Beware the crawl attack, btw, because that's got decent range and has actual follow ups. I'm pretty sure Ike can grab Samus out of crawl, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem once you familiarize yourself with it.

As far as tether mechanics in 3.5 go, Ike should be a pretty happy ranger with how his interactions play out with Samus at the ledge. Step 1: hit the Samus. : : Step 2: grab the ledge. : : Step 3: patiently wait and laugh as the feeble Samus struggles to get back to the stage : : Step 4: either drop ledge and bair, or just wait for the forced get up and punish the 50 frames of end lag.
But seriously, you've still got a huge sword, don't be afraid to exercise that things range and try to mess us up late in our recovery. Nair through a bomb and hit us, and all we can do is DI up and try again, if we don't die off the side blast zone.

Edge guarding Ike is relatively easy for Samus (but still scary af), because we can just up-tilt, DAFT, or backwards crawl to ledge hog while outranging or just avoiding that dumb UpB. Obviously, you should try to sweetspot the ledge to avoid getting hit, but pulling out a wall jump and going a bit high can catch us off guard and get you onto stage.

Also, we like to ban GHZ. Ike should be taking us to small stages. Aim for GHZ and WW before going to YS, because we can missile cancel on YS (also on WW, but WW is still better for Ike). Avoid DL, FoD, FD, and kind of smashville. The last two on there depend on the type of Samus. A lot of times, Samus can force you to waste your jumps with well placed missiles and charge shots, and then close the gap and start up a string. If you're playing against a dumb Samus who doesn't appreciate the zoning potential of missiles, and just spams MC, you can take them to a flat stage and have an incredible time pushing in their feces.
 

Chef2

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I'm no top level player, so I believe them when they say Falco isn't that bad, but god do I hate Falco. I have no idea what to do vs a laser centric Falco who only attacks off of laser confirms.

Seriously, this laser happy Falco I see at weeklies/monthlies always stomps me as Ike. Yes I get some big combos off and edge guards are easy, but I get worked in the neutral. He's good at jumping away and resetting if I'm in his space, then sets up camp again hopping back and forth and everywhere in between with lasers. Once I'm at kill percent laser ->dsmash is so good. Yes I can smash di down and tech but I don't get that everytime and Falco will just look to do it again.

Also, anytime I smack him at low % he CC->dtilts me. Is that supposed to work as well it does? If I space a fair he can't do it but it works off nair no matter the range. He can Wavedash in and shine/grab me after the fair too. Which makes me resort to looking for grabs, and I don't find it all that easy to maneuver around his lasers and get the grab.

Any advice vs this style of Falco? I play against others who do dair/nair approaches and are generally more aggressive and they aren't bad but this style is a brick wall for me (as ike anyways, I can beat him with wolf).
 

Hinichii.ez.™

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Try going to platform heavy stages and abusing them. It will be harder to get pinned down by lasers that way.

When he shines your shield, try to shield Di.

You may want to consider prefect shields.

That falco prob should be cc>shining but eh
I don't think cc dtilt is great till later %'s could be wrong here
 
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Chef2

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He does CC shine but if he isn't close enough he uses dtilt, doesn't take much % to pop ike up. Although it is weird cause he could just as easily dash/Wavedash and shine after the CC. Must just like dtilt. He is good with his follow ups from it though. If I di away he follows up with another laser->shine/dtilt/utilt/whatever and no di or di in it's soft nair into something or just dair or even shine. I dunno dtilt seems legit.

I feel like my best stage is ps2, which is usually banned. A high middle platform like on battlefield or dreamland allow Falco to easily escape to safety. Although platforms allow ike to maneuver better, they also really compliment falcos combo game, kinda a double edged sword. PS2 gives me some chain grabbing and some maneuvering without that pesky top platform, but I still haven't beaten him on ps2.

I'll have to just practice some more. My power shielding is nothing great so I should tighten that up. But even when I get power shields it's hard for me to get follow ups afterwards. Falco usually just takes the 1-3%, I get a little closer, and then keeps lasering away until he gets a confirm or jumps away to camp again. For characters who should explosively wreck each other, our games can last 5min+.

Thanks for the advice though! :)
 

pooch182

Smash Journeyman
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Dude, watch some high quality Ganon play and study the movement in the MU against Falco. You should be able to apply a lot of ideas to Ike, and it could help you get over this little mental block.
 

Hinichii.ez.™

insincere personality
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hinichii
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b/c you dont have many places to escape the lasers on ps2
 

Chef2

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
137
So I watched some ganon and ike play vs Falco. Good 3.5 vid of Boss (Falco) vs Junebug (ganon). First game was on smashville and Boss really didn't fire that many lasers, and definitely didn't camp that hard. He used lasers more so to approach. The few times he did camp a bit ganon was completely choked out and could hardly jump. Boss won.

Second game was on battlefield and Junebug used the lower platforms to maneuver around the lasers like waveland->jump->float->Bair. The main difference between boss and the Falco I play (two guys in one) is that boss wouldn't reset the neutral once ganon maneuvered around. He'd challenge ganon or dash back to now be stuck at the ledge. What Two Guys In One does is just hop to the top platform as I get into his space, then waveland off with a b reversed laser or whatever. Boss did this a few times and it worked out much better than the dash backs or challenges.

Still, Boss is nowhere near as campy as the Falco I play and I can't find a video with a similar style of Falco to see how to beat it. At least not as ike. You guys make it sound like it's as easy as "use platforms to avoid lasers and gg" but that rarely gets me a confirm. He knows I'm coming, he knows when I'm coming in off a platform with a nair or fair or whatever and how to jump away/shield/run/roll and just repeat until he gets some solid laser confirms.
 
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pooch182

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If he runs to top platform, assume solid stage control and wait. It sounds like you're playing too aggro in situations that require patience.
 

Chef2

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
137
I'll only get a vid if I happen to get on the cam at the tourney, don't ever play the guy in friendlies. Weekly tonight though so hopefully it happens!

If he goes to top platform I usually wait below but not underneath so he can't dair. Sometimes I mix this up by trying to smack him with nair or uair through the platform, doesn't usually work he just hops away but I think you gotta try mix ups sometimes instead of letting him think up top is a 100% safe zone.

I guess it boils down to just getting in on this guy. He is never gonna approach cause of his lasers, so it forces me too, and he reacts by hopping away or comboing off a laser confirm. Doing stuff like (let's say were on battlefield) jump->waveland(low platform)->jump->waveland(top platform)->falling spaced nair or fair doesn't hit much. Put in whatever variation of this approach you want it's frustratingly useless.

I think I'm gonna practice my power shields and try just walking him down and power shielding lasers. I suppose if I could do this and get him in range of Ragnell I could anticipate him jumping away and maybe nair him? Or get a grab or ftilt with a close enough enough power shield.
 

Quaza

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 21, 2014
Messages
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I think fox is much harder than falco. His shield pressure is harder to deal with and his punishes vs Ike are ridiculous. Falco you just have to out maneuver which isn't too hard. You have to keep pressure on falco. Get in his face. Punish any bad rolls. Keep him in the air.
I had trouble with samus in 3.02 but haven't played Ike vs her in 3.5. Will try it out soon.
Sheik destroys me. I talked to Hat and Swag Apocalypse about the matchup and they both agreed that the matchup heavily favors sheik. Like 65:35. Personally, I think it is his worst matchup.
I also have a lot of GnW experience and I don't think that matchup is very difficult. Ike dominates the neutral and punishes extremely hard. If you stay onstage you win.
 

Chef2

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
137
So I didn't play the guy in tourney but I got him to do some friendlies and saved the footage. Unfortunately all of it glitches out after like 5 seconds so it's useless.

I actually had my best games vs him simply walking towards him when he set up laser camp. I powershielded maybe 1/3 the lasers, and getting in his face while grounded let me punish his full hops or rolls. Worked a lot better than fancy platform movement.

Hopefully play him next time in tourney see if I get a win!
 

X0dus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
107
What should I do against Zero Suit Samus? And do you know who has the better match-up between Ike and Marth (EDIT: Vs. ZSS)?
 
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