Ike's Matchups

[KiTsuNe_23]

Any advice on the DK MU? His long arms are killing me...

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Juggle him. Big bodies like DK are perfect to juggle with Nair, and DK doesn't really have great options to get back onto the ground. Don't get grabbed. DK has hella grab combos and you don't wanna mess with that. Most of his moves have high ending lag except Nair and dash attack (and some others) so JC QD into wavedahes to bait out slower attacks, then try and get that grab and start the juggle. Finally, you gotta edgeguard DK. DK is very susceptible to meteors/spikes from most characters. If the DK goes medium height just about at the ledge then go for that short hop Dair, or something like Ftilt/Fair (be very careful when challenging DK's upB from the sides though, his arms are intangible so it requires precise timing to hit DK out of upB). If the DK goes low and tries to sweetspot then go for a walk off Dair, and if he tries to go above the stage and hit you, counter is actually quite safe, as DKs path with upB is quite predictable a few moments after he starts the move. Good luck.

 

[KiTsuNe_23]

Sweet, this helps a lot. It was kinda what I was already thinking, glad to know i'm not crazy.

 

[Leirkov]

Any advice on the Ness matchup? Respecting the space of PK Fire and Fair makes approaching very hard for me. I don't have a problem with most combos, I guess it's more of how to play neutral vs a PK Fire happy Ness.

 

[Chef2]

Any advice on the Ness matchup? Respecting the space of PK Fire and Fair makes approaching very hard for me. I don't have a problem with most combos, I guess it's more of how to play neutral vs a PK Fire happy Ness.

My old roommate played a pk fire spammy ness, but Ike actually has an amazing tool for shutting ness down. For grounded pk fires, you can sh over the pk fire while charging QD, then fast fall and get a free approach. This honestly had completely shut him down. I just chill at a range that makes him want to throw out pk fires, then SH->QD->fast fall and follow up. Tune yourself to instantly short hop when you hear the loud 'P' of PK fire and punish the little guy. Ike's too manly to say anything close to "pee" and ness' only other moves that say that are pk thunder (which he won't use on stage) and pk flash (whatever he says when green thing comes out, and you can punish this the same way as fire anyways).

If your a little slow, you can save time by just unleashing the QD as soon as your at Ike's apex. Even at the top of Ike's shorthop you'll still hit ness with the QD attack. Doesn't have to be right at the top either, pk travels low and Ike's shorthop is pretty high.

For aerial pk fires, it depends how deep he goes. If he's trying to space it, short hop and then nair or fair. If he's close enough, nair is quicker and more guaranteed. If he's far, smack him with fair on the way down. If for some reason he's flying right on your head to pk fire, it's better to just dash under him, then turn around and punish him on landing lag with a grab or QD.

Last note: it's inevitable your gonna get hit with some pk fires. If shielded (which you shouldn't be vs ness anyways but it happens) I roll out and hope the fire active frames don't line up with the 1-3 (not sure exactly) frames Ike's hurt box is out before rolling. If your not shielded, I find ness likes to go for grabs, so smash di out just before you think he'll grab. Best case scenario he whiffs a dash grab and you grab him back. Hope this helps!

 

[Leirkov]

My old roommate played a pk fire spammy ness, but Ike actually has an amazing tool for shutting ness down. For grounded pk fires, you can sh over the pk fire while charging QD, then fast fall and get a free approach. This honestly had completely shut him down. I just chill at a range that makes him want to throw out pk fires, then SH->QD->fast fall and follow up. Tune yourself to instantly short hop when you hear the loud 'P' of PK fire and punish the little guy. Ike's too manly to say anything close to "pee" and ness' only other moves that say that are pk thunder (which he won't use on stage) and pk flash (whatever he says when green thing comes out, and you can punish this the same way as fire anyways).

If your a little slow, you can save time by just unleashing the QD as soon as your at Ike's apex. Even at the top of Ike's shorthop you'll still hit ness with the QD attack. Doesn't have to be right at the top either, pk travels low and Ike's shorthop is pretty high.

For aerial pk fires, it depends how deep he goes. If he's trying to space it, short hop and then nair or fair. If he's close enough, nair is quicker and more guaranteed. If he's far, smack him with fair on the way down. If for some reason he's flying right on your head to pk fire, it's better to just dash under him, then turn around and punish him on landing lag with a grab or QD.

Last note: it's inevitable your gonna get hit with some pk fires. If shielded (which you shouldn't be vs ness anyways but it happens) I roll out and hope the fire active frames don't line up with the 1-3 (not sure exactly) frames Ike's hurt box is out before rolling. If your not shielded, I find ness likes to go for grabs, so smash di out just before you think he'll grab. Best case scenario he whiffs a dash grab and you grab him back. Hope this helps!

Oh yeah, I totally know my friend's playstyle (the Ness in question), he basically sits in shield and shield grabs people, but when he approaches a lot of his spacing is PK Fire or Fair. Once I go in on him, I can get 80% in a combo and get him in an edgeguarding situation. It's mainly the neutral. So I guess QD baits are the best option? QD -> WD back to bait and then go in would probably work.

 

[Chef2]

Oh yeah, I totally know my friend's playstyle (the Ness in question), he basically sits in shield and shield grabs people, but when he approaches a lot of his spacing is PK Fire or Fair. Once I go in on him, I can get 80% in a combo and get him in an edgeguarding situation. It's mainly the neutral. So I guess QD baits are the best option? QD -> WD back to bait and then go in would probably work.

I wouldn't do QD baits if he spams pk fire. If you QD then Wavedash as he decides to pk fire, you'll probably get hit by it as your committed to the QD Wavedash for about the same time as a pk fire. I prefer to just dash dance (mix it up by just standing still or walking slowly, it's surprisingly intimidating and ness has no quick ranged punish to worry about) at the edge of pk fire range (about 1/3 of battlefield). Don't be close enough so he can quickly fair you though. Ness isn't that fast and lacks a quick approach from a distance. Play patient, played spaced and wait for the pk fire, then short hop and QD into his face.

When he's fed up with getting punished for pk fire spam and switches to fair approaches, ftilt seemed to punish fair pretty nicely as it's not too hard to predict. Wavedash back is alright, but with DJC he can follow up pretty fast. I'm not sure if ness can link anything after fair safely when he hits shield, so I think you can just roll away. Getting some space between you and ness is the key.

I also found bigger platform stages work best. Platforms let you poke and mess up his aerial pk fires.

Edit: QD is still good, i just found wave dashing out was often met with a pk fire during cool down. Jumping out of QD is a lot safer and can even punish nicely if you hop over a pk fire.

 

[nullife]

Any advice for Link? For some reason I have a hard time against him.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Any advice for Link? For some reason I have a hard time against him.

Wait for 3.5

Then try hitting him with the sword, see what that does

 

[nullife]

Wait for 3.5

Then try hitting him with the sword, see what that does

I'm sorry I'm not entirely sure what you're insinuating.
I think I might of missed something.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I'm sorry I'm not entirely sure what you're insinuating.
I think I might of missed something.

What you're missing is that any MU advice I could give you now will be obsolete in hours.

Especially considering that Link has confirmed recovery nerfs at the bare minimum, probably more than that.

 

[Chef2]

Any advice for Link? For some reason I have a hard time against him.

Like Lord said it's gonna change, but I doubt drastically.

Small tip is you can short hop over a flat thrown boomerang instead of full hopping. Leaves you less open to punish. And although rang is faster and harder to read than ness pk fire, if you happen to be in the air when Link throws a rang, charge QD, fast fall as it travels under you, punish.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Peach is still even but going off the edge is now terrifying.

Meta Knight is even or slightly in our favor now I believe, our juggles on him are real, though I believe his dair punishes our non-sweetspot Aethers hardcore now. Like straight-into-Ikezone hardcore. Would need more testing but a manageable MU became easier to hold positional advantage in and we don't get tech chased to Infinity and Beyond.

Dedede is now legitimately painful. His Waddle-dashing is slower, okie. We lost recovery options, however minor (and one major) against a character that can out-space us and eats our recovery alive. If Dedede didn't have a winning MU before he does now. 60-40.

Fox is easier. We may even be better at this MU than Marth and Roy now. Roy has a lot of Marth tech chasing, frame traps as well our bair, Marth's CG and his own amazing combo game, but we recover much easier and can go a lot deeper to swat Fox away. Plus Fox can't CP us to a bigger stage and gain a sizeable advantage like he can with Marth. Time to suck it up and practice the CG folks, because if there's a Fox-slayer in this game now it's us. (Er and MK. Maybe Mewtwo. And shut up, but we're up there.)

Mario's Dthrow is less punishing now, he has to be smarter with Fireball spacing or we can QD/QD-aerial under/over it and he's the perfect weight/fallspeed/range disadvantage for harcode juggle and QD shenanigans. I honestly thought we barely lost this one even back in 3.0. Now I'm certain we win.

Flaco's dair got tighter. He's still annoying but we can laugh at him. And yeah fine, I'll admit we're probably even, we just have to be careful with QD and approaches and blah blah Flaco MU stuff.

Fighting Ganondorf is now a lot more fun. We have one of the most predictable recoveries for sword-taunt disrespect, but then so does he. 50-50 disrespect taunt MU GOGOGO

Lucas still eats us alive but kill confirms are harder for him and he won't make it back from Pluto if we manage to hit him that far (and we do). Easier to edgeguard, no magnet out of Down-B. Time to stop complaining and perfect tether edgeguarding folks. Closer to a spacy MU now and I think we outspace him harder because fair-nerf. Be smart about dealing with PKF and we're gold. Juggles are real here too.

Diddy HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ONE BANANA YES HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA still not gonna be an exactly easy MU though. Nanners limit our best mobility option by simply existing, Diddy has an extra projectile on top of that and can still wreck us if he invades our space. We have to work not to let that happen. WD out of QD is a viable tactic in this MU now and we all needs must work on our item games; plus I think Diddy really fears our fair now. Still gets outspaced, still gets juggled and has less things to crimp out stage presence with now. When all is said and done I think this one's even at worst.

Sheik is too cool to lose to us. We lost recovery and range on QD. She soft counter now, and if you though she already was (I think I do too) she counters us just a little bit harder now. Edging close to 60-40 Sheik.

Link still chokes out our mobility better than most, but we can actually punish him for poor spacing now and he lost tether mixups. Even to 55-45 Link, no longer too bad and I never thought it was awful to begin with, just hard to get him dead.

Wolf's blasters are faster. ... F***

I think we can fight Mewtwos and Pits now. I don't think these MUs got too much easier though. Mewtwo can actually be edge-guarded, as can Pit. Mewtwo also got a range nerf which can only favor us. I'm not gonna say "Even" or "We slightly lose" ... Like I'm getting those feelings, but honestly IDK. We'll see.

... Is it just me or is edge-guarding DK easier somehow?

Oh hai Marth.

That's all for now.

 

[nullife]

Thanks for that post Lordling.
As far as Link goes, could you tell me what specific changes make him more punishable for poor spacing?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Throwing Boomerang like a dumbass, mostly. Link actually has to be careful to stuff out our movement, same as Mario in 3.5 actually. Less safe boomerang means he gets punished for not using it at the proper spacing and there are even ranges where we can punish him with QD -> Nair while deflecting rang. Rang is basically no longer the neutral-destroying anti-Ike (I would argue this was never debilitating of course, provided we weren't zipping around with QD like idiots) and Link, much like Ike, gets wrecked once we breach the distance he wants keep us at.

Bombs tricks can still be harrowing though, but I think there was a trajectory nerf? QD -> WD back and just a good fakeout and bait game in general is crucial in this MU, but on the whole more rewarding in 3.5.

Link also had a large hitbox on Up-B removed, inaddition to Up-B being a worse recovery option, which we can actually go out to distances where Link will need to bomb jump and fair him out of the whole thing. Link hates recovering against us now almost as much as we should hate recovering against him (I feel like dropping a bomb on Aether was underutilized, if we get sent away from the stage we're BONED.)

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Why in the world is dumb-(synonym for donkey) censored

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

YO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F6BnKgHkgM&list=UUwdVytA5FmjUEUBbc28h9QA
Gallo (Mario) v/s DJ Nintendo (Ike)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljl-lAjxgH0&list=UUwdVytA5FmjUEUBbc28h9QA
Frozen (Mewtwo/ZSS) v/s DJ Nintendo (Ike)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSM6azaYywM&list=UUwdVytA5FmjUEUBbc28h9QA
Frozen (Mewtwo) v/s Gallo (Mario)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpkQyfDQUu0&list=UUwdVytA5FmjUEUBbc28h9QA
Ninjalink (Link/Diddy) v/s DJ Nintendo (Ike)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUsHwLdZyEg&list=UUwdVytA5FmjUEUBbc28h9QA
Gurukid (Wario) v/s Frozen (Mewtwo)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71v1L4uTfXo&list=UUwdVytA5FmjUEUBbc28h9QA
Gallo (Mario) v/s Ninjalink (Link/Marth)

Saving you some trouble @KayB

3.5 Ike footage already. Amazing 3.5 Ike footage. DJ Nintendo showing just how well Ike can play bait-punish. Barely any QD tech, but what he does used is applied really frickin' well.

Also footage proving me right about a lot of MUs lol. Check out DJ's ridiculous juggles on Mario. Link and Diddy both look a lot more manageable and holy crap DJ made Frozen switch off Mewtwo

I could cry

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Based DJ Nintendo making Frozen switch off Mewtwoooooooooooomg

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Based DJ Nintendo making Frozen switch off Mewtwoooooooooooomg

DJ v/s Gallo tho ... Gallo is an amazing player who makes 3.5 Mario look unchanged. But holy crap did I feel sorry for Mario v/s Ike. That Nair -> DJ -> Nair is something I need to incorporate and we should all strongly consider switching C-Stick to attack for the super tight platform drop Nairs that DJ was doing. (I am assuming here that we mortals don't have DJ's fingerspeed).

Ridiculous part this was all stuff we could do in 3.02 lol. I will continue to say 3.02 Mario loses to Ike, especially on like GHZ, Warioware and Yoshi's.

 

[Chef2]

Dang, DJ Nintendo's movement is so good. I like how he combines it with his great patience and only attacks when he sees a punish or a safely spaced attack. Good to see him using some QD in neutral too, albeit he does it rarely, but I'm thinking maybe that's a good thing.

I tend to do a lot QD shenanigans in neutral which, upon reflection, is probably because it used to scare people into playing really defensive vs ike. But as people get more comfortable vs ike, QD loses it's intimidation factor and often throws you into a bad spot if your doing it too much.

I think I'm gonna rework my neutral to use a lot less QD and focus more on gaining center stage through platform movement, dashing and wave lands. Once I have my position I'll continue to move around and look for windows to land safely spaced attacks. Small tourney tomorrow gonna give this a shot and see if I place better!

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I tend to do a lot QD shenanigans in neutral

Stop.

Not only is it a bad habit, but this more than anything else makes you shut down when you play someone with projectiles, or someone who knows the proper response to an Ike charging QD when they can do something about it. QD is a punish. QD helps with juggles, edgeguards and combos. QD is not a good approach, just something to close distance with when the other person has foolishly committed to something. QD closes gaps, it does not create openings.

 

[Chef2]

Stop.

Not only is it a bad habit, but this more than anything else makes you shut down when you play someone with projectiles, or someone who knows the proper response to an Ike charging QD when they can do something about it. QD is a punish. QD helps with juggles, edgeguards and combos. QD is not a good approach, just something to close distance with when the other person has foolishly committed to something. QD closes gaps, it does not create openings.

100% agree now. Looks flashy but that doesn't get the W haha. Definitely gonna practice tonight without QD and test out my neutral at the weekly tomorrow. Hope to see some improvements!

 

[SimaMatt]

what do I do against Ivysaur?

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

I used to main Ivysaur, so I think I have some worthy input here. Ivysaur outranges Ike, but our mobility is far superior. Your objective in neutral is to stay mobile and use fake outs (QD to WD, dash dance, WD) to bait out Ivysaur's far reaching but slow moves such as Fair, grab, and Dtilt, then proceed to punish with something like a QD grab. Razor Leaf is a great projectile, but it has a very slow rate of fire, so you don't really need to worry about it shutting you down hard. Try to stay at that medium range so you can threaten/punish Ivysaur if she attempts a Razor Leaf but you won't get hit by a sudden long range move like Dtilt.

Ivysaur has a good weight and fall speed for Ike to combo. BnB stuff like Fthrow/Bthrow to Fair/Bair work well, and at earlier percents you should be using Uthrow and Nair to juggle like always.

Now for the toughest part of the matchup. Recovering versus an Ivysaur as Ike is extremely difficult. Ivysaur stomps all over projected recoveries, and QD is an extremely projected recovery. Try to mix things up as much as you can. Whenever possible, go low for an Aether instead of recovering with QD. If you're sent far and high, instead of going for the ledge, try to go high with QD. Just avoid that Bair!!

On the other hand, with 3.5 nerfs, edgeguarding Ivysaur should theoretically be easy (although I haven't vs'd an Ivysaur yet in 3.5). Think of it as the same as edgeguarding Falcon. Just get on that ledge, and wait for Ivysaur to tether it. Once she hops up, get up yourself and smack her with Dsmash. Repeat.

This went longer than I intended, but it should help. Good luck!

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Ledgejump Bair is a better punish for tethers. Bair's hitbox covers the fade-back option (where they come up but don't land on stage, instead drifting back offstage and Up-B'ing to make you give up ledge for a punish attempt). Less strict to time, covers every option including fastfall onto stage (since they can't shield for a bit, but can come out landing lag and shield as you try to go for the DSmash). Just get the timing down and go for it the moment you see them reel in. We could accidentally hit them with the forward hitbox instead of the back but good timing should allow us to nail them with the backwards bair sweetspot on reaction to reel-in, which is a super hard punish esp. if they've exhausted DJs and other recovery resources.

 

[MLGF]

Well... QD in the neutral, what a fun topic.

I'm still for QD in the neutral, but I use it sparingly in fakeouts mixed with a lot of Dash Dances and such, as QD alone is a **** neutral, and avoid it against projectile based characters.
As for DJ nintendo's lack of QD, he's the most nair happy Ike I've ever seen, it's the one piece of advise he gave me at Guts. Clearly, it works. He seems far less prone to use QD then any other Ike I've seen however, but he just plays so smart. Gotta find that middle ground if you ask me, but eh.

 

[grandpappy]

^I have been known to do a B-reversed QD out of a DD to throw people off, and I think that's really good. Like Dash away from foe>QD>B-reverse that *****>fly towards foe>do stuff to them. If they were running at you or something else dumb you can catch them off guard and it's hilarious.

But I'm just a jerk and my friends are bad.

 

[SimaMatt]

This went longer than I intended, but it should help. Good luck!

No worries, I really enjoy these kind of long, detailed posts since I don't get many chances to play smash. Plus I imagine it will help others if they have trouble with the Match up. Thanks a lot!

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Well... QD in the neutral, what a fun topic.

I'm still for QD in the neutral, but I use it sparingly in fakeouts mixed with a lot of Dash Dances and such, as QD alone is a **** neutral, and avoid it against projectile based characters.
As for DJ nintendo's lack of QD, he's the most nair happy Ike I've ever seen, it's the one piece of advise he gave me at Guts. Clearly, it works. He seems far less prone to use QD then any other Ike I've seen however, but he just plays so smart. Gotta find that middle ground if you ask me, but eh.

I mean QD has its place in neutral. The main thing here is to recognize that it doesn't give Ike a free approach and learn when the best time to QD is, and what option to use out of QD when you do. (This is something I think DJ doesn't exploit enough.)

Space, bait, punish. Use all of Ike's tools for this, whether it be his fair, his Ftilt, his aerial mobility and platform movement, his DD, and even QD. When appropriate.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

^I have been known to do a B-reversed QD out of a DD to throw people off, and I think that's really good. Like Dash away from foe>QD>B-reverse that *****>fly towards foe>do stuff to them. If they were running at you or something else dumb you can catch them off guard and it's hilarious.

But I'm just a jerk and my friends are bad.

Yeah I do the same thing! B-reverse QD in neutral is an underused mixup that can catch a lot of people off guard. It's another great movement option Ike has on the ground to fakeout the opponent.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Hey guys, when juggling fastfallers, after a Nair, is it better to get a sweetspot Utilt or grab? I almost always go for the grab (when I can get it of course) but I was watching this video and saw that JuSt almost always goes for a Utilt when I would've gone for the grab instead. Which option, if any, is better?

 

[grandpappy]

My opinion is: if you can grab, always grab.

 

[LonVoen]

Okay, so, uh. Totally an ike main here. I have a.. friend who plays Zelda (side note: has anyone noticed how awesome zelda players are? and how much they can bench? I mean, damn) who is having some trouble beating me. What do I, er, does he do to beat MY Ike? Ike outranges Zelda hard and her paltry dash speed makes punishes difficult. How safe is ike's stuff on shield because it feels real safe D:

If you needed verification that I am a true blue Ike main, I will tell you my favorite thing about him and surely that will convince you: It's his sword. His sword is my favorite thing.

tldr: how do i beat ike **** that guy his sword is like huge


On a serious, on topic note: QD vs Zelda in neutral is ugly, don't do it. I can jab, dash attack, fsmash, nayru's love, ftilt etc. A short hop nayru lets me space out QD with large horizontal hitboxes and puts you into a tech situation. The most you'll want to do is QD for momentum and space a fair on my shield or a QDWD bait. Scare me into shielding when I see that and then go for QD grabs -> cool-looking Ike things.
If zelda places a small din at regular height you can QD -> short hop over it. Hell, if you see Zelda start to place a din and you can do a grounded QD you can probably make her regret it real bad, real fast.

 

[MLGF]

Tell him to bait out your moves better, as successful baiting lets Ike get wicked punishes on Zelda. Really all there is to it.

 

[LonVoen]

What does Zelda do to fight Ike well though?

 

[MLGF]

I dunno, I've never lost to my friend's Zelda. It's a reeeeeaaaaalllll easy matchup for Ike TBH.
I'd say the smartest thing you can do is to be patient, Ike has a lot of tools that can punish you for making simple mistakes and Zelda isn't able to Pressure Ike well enough for Ike to ever be in a terrible position. Simply not falling for any of his approach options and respecting his space would be helpful. Outside of that, it's a real uphill battle.

 

[LonVoen]

Oof. Whelp, it is what it is. Thanks for the info ! :D

 

[Leirkov]

So, went to tournament today. Want to ask about a few matchups.

Ike vs. Luigi
Ike vs. Marth

Both of these characters were my losses. I tore through every other match with relative ease.

Beginning with the Marth matchup, I got forward throw chain grabbed a lot. This also led to dtilt/fsmash ledge gimps with relative ease. I didn't really know what to do, obviously DIing in doesn't work but Marth can also regrab on reaction. Is that a guaranteed chain throw for Marth? I figured out quickly that uair can juggle quite easily and also kill early. As much as I like getting bairs / shield stab crossup bair/nairs I had a hard time not getting grab comboed. I could deal with mostly everything else - uair/utilt combos I can DI rather well. But the neutral and avoiding the Marth's goal in the matchup to not be grabbed is where I struggle.

The Luigi matchup was weird. I destroyed his first two stocks then he brought it back quickly. Both of us are very mobile and can bait easily in neutral, but I feel as if Luigi's moves are very safe and he's naturally slippery so it's harder for Ike to get in. But uair juggle works so well and Ike's aerial pressure vs Luigi is very good.

I feel like it's my neutral game that suffers in a lot of matchups. Based on the above is that enough to try and feel out the issue I have in these matchups?

 

[Moy]

So, went to tournament today. Want to ask about a few matchups.

Ike vs. Luigi
Ike vs. Marth

Both of these characters were my losses. I tore through every other match with relative ease.

Beginning with the Marth matchup, I got forward throw chain grabbed a lot. This also led to dtilt/fsmash ledge gimps with relative ease. I didn't really know what to do, obviously DIing in doesn't work but Marth can also regrab on reaction. Is that a guaranteed chain throw for Marth? I figured out quickly that uair can juggle quite easily and also kill early. As much as I like getting bairs / shield stab crossup bair/nairs I had a hard time not getting grab comboed. I could deal with mostly everything else - uair/utilt combos I can DI rather well. But the neutral and avoiding the Marth's goal in the matchup to not be grabbed is where I struggle.

The Luigi matchup was weird. I destroyed his first two stocks then he brought it back quickly. Both of us are very mobile and can bait easily in neutral, but I feel as if Luigi's moves are very safe and he's naturally slippery so it's harder for Ike to get in. But uair juggle works so well and Ike's aerial pressure vs Luigi is very good.

I feel like it's my neutral game that suffers in a lot of matchups. Based on the above is that enough to try and feel out the issue I have in these matchups?

For Marth, in my experience I've found that DI'ing fthrow down and away is good since you can buffer roll to put distance between you and him and reset neutral. It also works well offstage since you can usually avoid dtilt and fsmash followups by waiting a split second and grabbing ledge, where Ike has more options to get back on stage. I've also heard that DI'ing up and in is also effective, since I believe it would put you behind Marth's head, but I haven't really tested this or tried it out in tournament recently.

Luigi is definitely weird. I've learned that most Luigi players love approaching with down B, which leads to combos and a bad position for you. We all know that Nair is an amazing move, so I use Nair a lot to try to stuff his down Bs and follow up with utilts or more aerials like you said.

I feel like because Ike gets so much off of Nair, baiting out moves and punishing with grabs (sometimes as a result of QD movement) and racking on percent from throws is really efficient - once characters can no longer CC Nair, approaching becomes much easier, again using QD mobility and his great aerial movement.

Did you capitalize on edgeguards? I know that edgeguarding Luigi can be kind of tricky, which is one of the reasons why I sometimes drops games to my friends who play him. Marth also needs to be dead when he's offstage.

On another note, does anyone know how to edgeguard Squirtle? I lost a set to a Squirtle yesterday and was having trouble dealing with his up B.

 

[SlimStealthy]

Tips against Ness? I cant avoid all his cheesy crap, eventually i get hit by PK fire and into a janky combo D: