Ike's Matchups

[steelguttey]

Spoiler: Ike

Good Stages:

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 83%

Matchup Ratio: 3-7

Tips:

I would jsay the Ike MU is almost unwinnable. His range and disjoints can knock aside the Pikmin you throw and he can kill you at like 15%! Ike murders floaties and Olimar especially is almost free and soooo easy to combo. Quick Draw lets him follow you if you try to rjun away so forget about managing Pikmin. The only reason I say almost unwinnable is because Ike's attacks are slow so you can punish sometimes. If you somehow get a juggle, he can get out pretty easy with a nair orwhatever which is why Battlefield type stage woould be a lil better but you still trade. Yoshi's Story would let Ike finish your5 stocks in 10 secs and Dreamland would let Ike always be in hitstun so Battlefield and PS2 are your second best bet aside from swi4ching. jsmwmzkmao derp I don car aboot wammar lol

IMO, this is his fourth worst matchup. (Order being Marth, Roy, Fox, Ike. My personal feelings).

His attacks are fast enough and reach far enough to keep Olimar out with good spacing, and his QD keeps his combos going. Ike is also pretty good at edge guarding in general because F-Air and B-Air are insanely strong, and he can go really low and still make it back. If you're ever tethering the stage he literally only has to drop off the stage and N-Air and it covers everything, including waiting so he whiffs, so long as he times it right, and the timing isn't strict.

Olimar has some pretty good combos on Ike though, and your pivot grab is pretty effective against his QD stuff, either making him jump earlier or catching him if he doesn't. Ike also isn't free of holes on stage, his worst trait is his neutral game. Try to bait Ike into attacking because most everything he has is easily punishable.

Pikmin Throw is nice in this matchup because if Ike attacks to get Pikmin off of him then he puts himself at a disadvantage. Also if you have Purple then praise R.N. Jesus because Purple really helps in the neutral game because it's a real projectile.

The Ike match-up is hard, but it is by no means unwinnable. Fox and Marth match-ups are definitely worse (I'd honestly put this match-up at 55-45 for Ike, 60-40 at absolute worst). I play quite a bit against a very solid Ike in our region and at first I struggled a lot with the match-up but that's because I approached it incorrectly at first. He has the largest sword in the game, so his disjoints are overall massive and completely dominate yours. He can easily outspace you when you're within a certain range, and his immense power means he can kill you very early.

This match-up needs to be played quite defensively and campy as Ike's neutral game isn't great. Try to force the approach from him as he only really has two notable approach options (though his main one breaks into multiple other options). If he tries to dash attack, shield on reaction and punish. If you see him trying to do anything QD related, opt for a pivot grab or if he's jumped and is above you go for a USmash and begin juggling him. As B.W. said Side B is very good in this match-up as it's your main tool to force the approach. If you can get right on him then you can start applying pressure as Ike's defensive game isn't great (though be wary of NAir oos).

Also I forgot to mention stages.

You want medium stages. Choosing anything small let's Ike absolutely smother you with N-Air, B-Air and F-Tilt, but choosing anything big lets him survive longer, which is bad because Ike can kill you easy on any stage thanks to his amazing kill power. And he's also amazing at edgeguarding, as previously stated.

Medium stages let you have enough space against Ike to see what QD shenanigans might be happening, and the walls aren't too far out so your combos have a better chance of killing Ike outright, rather than having to edgeguard him, which can be difficult to do.

olimar vs ike yo

 

[FoxBlaze71]

Cool, thanks for the info. I feel sorry for you Olitard mains in PM, life is rough.

 

[steelguttey]

Cool, thanks for the info. I feel sorry for you Olitard mains in PM, life is rough.

he isnt that bad he just hates big people with big swords with tiny self esteems

 

[grandpappy]

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog maaaan.

 

[FoxBlaze71]

he isnt that bad he just hates big people with big swords with tiny self esteems

Ike doesn't have tiny self-esteem, he just has tiny sympathy, which is why he'll drive Captain Omar into the dirt every single time.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

What do you guys think of the pikachu matchup? I played a pikachu in friendlies at my last tourney this past weekend, and I was just getting destroyed. The sad thing was that other players that I could beat relatively easily were doing better against this pikachu than I was, making me think the MU just sucks. How do I play it?

 

[Y-L]

What do you guys think of the pikachu matchup? I played a pikachu in friendlies at my last tourney this past weekend, and I was just getting destroyed. The sad thing was that other players that I could beat relatively easily were doing better against this pikachu than I was, making me think the MU just sucks. How do I play it?

I would suggest youtubing ally vs anther as they are both very prominent figures for their respective characters (ike/pikachu). Anther says he frequently loses to Ally because he can't get in.

 

[grandpappy]

I've never played a Pika, but I'm gonna say that you should definitely abuse the fact that he has to be super close to hit you and you have a sword that's as long as the world. Just do whatever you have to to keep him away from you. I feel like maybe Nair would shut Pikachu down?

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Pikachu is just way too fast, I try Nair but once it ends pikachu insta quick-attacks right on to me and starts a combo, idk what to do, and I'll check out ally vs anther, thanks.

 

[grandpappy]

Yeah he can get in pretty fast. I imagine you have to put hitboxes where he is going to be not where he is. Which takes some reading skills, and Ally is psychic.

 

[the man]

Alright I have 3 matchups that I'm having problems dealing with on Netplay.

1. Squirtle
2. Ganondorf
3. Roy

How do I play these match ups correctly?

 

[King of Hoboz]

Well, I'm not sure what advice will translate into Netplay, but here goes.

Squirtle, a low-level tactic that's really effective on Squirtle is to know that Ike's counter is surprisingly fast from his Brawl counterpart and easily beats Squirtle's withdrawal if that is a problematic move. Ike's Neutral-B is really really easy to pull off, as a ledge guard, against Squirtle's up-B recovery, just release a little early so that you'll armor through, and Squirtle tends to be meteor smashed or popped up for a kill/combo. These are little gimmicks though.

Considering Squirtle's size, I'd focus on making sure you hit over kill Squirtle, so the N-air plane is best plane. Also, it doesn't hurt to be aggressive once you've connected some clean hits against Squirtle, since you don't want him to start his shell-shifting game.

Ganondorf is really easy, honestly. You are a faster character, use that to your advantage. A common Ganon thing is to space for Side-B or Down-B, so always be ready to bait and counter these moves with jumps and good mobility. N-air plane is still best plane, but only use it as an air to air trade, otherwise Crotch-Canceling is a factor. Grabbing him before he can grab you with QD -> Grab is also highly reccomended, but only after you've established yourself in a good position.

Edge-guarding is as easy as waiting for his down-b and F-airing him while he does that.

Roooy, eeeeh, I still struggle with Marth at times, and probably would with Roy for similar reasons. These guys are just so mobile that you'll just have to make your openings count more. Roy's a semi-fast faller so you'll want to do U-Throw into X combos. Do know that any poke while he's off stage normally means death, even a really basic N-air.

 

[MLGF]

Guys, how do I DK?
He's so weird for me.

 

[Y-L]

Guys, how do I DK?
He's so weird for me.

Don't get grabbed and respect nair

 

[Masterphailure]

So how does one combat ZSS? Her D-Smash makes it hard to recover with Aether because of how low it reaches and then that leads to a free forward smash.

 

[metroid1117]

So how does one combat ZSS? Her D-Smash makes it hard to recover with Aether because of how low it reaches and then that leads to a free forward smash.

You might get hit even if you sweetspot, but if you get DSmashed in that position then you can tech the "stun breakout" animation or tech their attempt to stagespike you with BAir. Other than that though, I get bopped pretty hard by Oro when we play, so I don't have any good advice for you.

 

[MLGF]

So I need a consensus, what's the worse matchup? Ike:Mario or MetaKnight:Mario? This is literally the only matchup I feel that I don't cover and I have no clue which character I should use to study/practice this matchup.

Fireballs >

 

[Commander]

So I need a consensus, what's the worse matchup? Ike:Mario or MetaKnight:Mario? This is literally the only matchup I feel that I don't cover and I have no clue which character I should use to study/practice this matchup.

Fireballs >

Ike can nair through the fireballs and can close the distance between him and Mario. My favorite stage for a counter pick in this match up is FoD. It is close so you don't have to weave through a lot of fireballs to get to him and you can likely block a fireball and hit him at the same time. The small side blast zones are good for getting kills. My Mario maining friend told me that the rising platforms have a chance of canceling Mario's dash attack which is nice to know, but not particularly useful. As long as you stay at the edge of Mario's down smash range you are almost always safe and can keep hitting him.

 

[GP&B]

Dammit, missed the Falcon discussion. I got the chance to play Gahtzu at a recent tournament and playing against a Falcon that is both exceptionally good and mentally on top of you seriously wears you down. It's similar in a lot of ways to Falcon:Marth in that he wants to force whiffs except Ike absolutely can't afford to whiff to begin with. Ike also lacks a quick option to threaten space in front of him without getting stuffed by Nairs. You need to mix between solid ground and air game to get in, but generally speaking the MU is much harder than you think it is. Ike gets danced on hard and learning to lock Falcon down where possible is key and probably the thing that keeps this MU close.

ZSS is a different story as she has a much less friendly combo weight and far more escape tools to reset and cause trouble. Big thing is being able to jump in Nair over pistol shots and especially make sure to crossup -> turn jab. You need a good amount of MU knowledge just to avoid getting whomped by her bnb techchasing setups and Ike already has it hard enough dealing with pressure. You can at the very least punish a shielded Dair from her though.

 

[Sol0ke]

How does one deal with a Shiek?

 

[grandpappy]

Cry and hope your opponent feels bad enough for you to forfeit.

 

[King of Hoboz]

How does one deal with a Shiek?

Play so much better than the Shiek that they want to give up playing the game. That's how I solved my Shiek problems.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

I despise the Sheik MU as Ike.

 

[grandpappy]

Haha we're all so extremely helpful.

but I've never played a real Sheik and even bad non-Sheik mains make me cry with needles.

metroid halp

 

[Sol0ke]

God dang it Shiek

Why must you be frusturating

 

[metroid1117]

Honestly, I'm not too versed in the match-up since I prefer going Charizard instead of Ike. This is a hard, albeit interesting match-up since Ike can combo Sheik pretty well but has a really hard time spacing her out, similarly to Marth except Ike lacks a reliable ground poke (Marth's DTilt). I consulted Jolteon about this match-up almost a year ago and he told me to rely more on sharking/positional advantage than horizontal combos (FThrow/BThrow shenanigans); the reasoning for this is Sheik has terrible aerial drift and, outside of NAir, doesn't have any reliable ways to ward off opponents that are directly below her whereas Ike's mobility (burst movement with QD and air speed out of a running jump), NAir, and UAir all allow him to shark under opponents fairly well. UThrow true combos into UAir/NAir at low %s and helps to position her at mid %s. As for edgeguarding, you can edgeguard her similar to Peach in that you can grab the edge as she starts her up+B and then either edgehop BAir if she goes high or waveland DSmash if she goes for the stage; DSmash acts like Peach's in that it sends off stage while turning her around, so she won't be able to grab the edge without up+B'ing or turning around with a needle cancel.

As for the neutral game, it's hard to get in - needles stop QD approaches, grab prevents sloppily-spaced aerials, and FTilt is dangerous as both a poke and combo-starter. Ike's tech rolls aren't particularly good either, making him easy prey to DThrow/BThrow tech chases. However, at low %s, Sheik's approach options are limited to grabs since you can pretty much ASDI or CC all of her ground moves until mid %s. This means that at low %s, she'll most likely force approaches with needles and only opt to dash attack or FTilt when you take to the air; otherwise, she'll most likely be wavedashing backward to punish your approaches or run in with a grab. As for DI'ing the grabs, the mix-up between BThrow and DThrow is DI-able with quick reactions if you always DI for her BThrow (which is faster than her DThrow) and then DI for her DThrow when you see the "guillotine/crouch" animation.

Again though, I usually opt to go Charizard against Sheiks, so I haven't actually played the match-up for a while lol.

 

[Sol0ke]

Ah, gto it. Looks like I must go Meta Knight then.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

What character best covers the Pikachu and Sheik matchups? Those are the ones I struggle with the most.

 

[Grimmdark2140]

Can any of Ike's attacks get through Yoshi's double jump armor and if any can which ones? What are Ike's option when Yoshi is on the ledge just throwing eggs? Other those two questions this is a match up in my opinion is in Ike's favor.

 

[Y-L]

Can any of Ike's attacks get through Yoshi's double jump armor and if any can which ones? What are Ike's option when Yoshi is on the ledge just throwing eggs? Other those two questions this is a match up in my opinion is in Ike's favor.

Tbh don't even challenge Yoshi off stage with an aerial unless he's used his double jump. Try to catch him on the way down, or better yet, footstool him out of his second jump and he's a dead man. As for the egg thing I just get on a platform and wait I guess.

 

[MLGF]

@ metroid1117

What do you advise for the Ike/Zard matchup? I know I should stay grounded but it seems to be a really difficult to punish a Zard that spaces Nair well?

Seeing how you main both, I think you'd probably know this pretty well.

 

[metroid1117]

@ metroid1117

What do you advise for the Ike/Zard matchup? I know I should stay grounded but it seems to be a really difficult to punish a Zard that spaces Nair well?

Seeing how you main both, I think you'd probably know this pretty well.

Ike-Charizard is a fun match-up for Ike IMO. It's kind of old, but I have some Ike-Charizard friendlies in this video. The two biggest pieces of advice I can give you are (1) don't give Charizard space and (2) when he's coming back from the ground, wait for the impending NAir and either shark him when he lands on a platform or QD JC grab when he lands. Charizard's ground mobility is, on average, better than Ike's since Ike's speed is strongly reliant on burst movement from QD, but if you keep pressuring Charizard then he can't utilize it nearly as much. On the other hand, Charizard's air mobility isn't terribly good whereas Ike's aerials are all disjointed and he has great air speed, so you can shark him pretty easily. His floatiness and size also make him good combo food for FThrow/BThrow, so I'd recommend sticking to those throws (and maybe DThrow at mid %s) for combos.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

I know this MU is brought up a lot, but tomorrow I'm money matching the so called "best player" at my high school. We've never seen each other play before (I'm the best grade 11 player at my school and he's the best grade 12 player and we don't really play across grades). He's a mario main (yeah this MU is brought up a lot lol), and I was just wondering if anyone had any last minute tips in facing mario. What stages should I aim to strike to/counterpick to? How should I deal with fireballs? How should I use platforms? Thanks guys! Oh and also probably the most important question which throws should I use against mario for the best followups?

 

[MLGF]

If you have a Marth, I advise you go him and jab to can fireballs.

Otherwise, use Ike and try not to rely on QD a lot. Use nair to start combos.

And recover like crazy, don't get caped.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Thanks for the advice. I do have a Marth but my Marth is not too good so I'm going to stick with Ike. Not relying on QD is actually excellent advice for me, I tend to do that a lot I think, and studying DJ Nintendo has helped me with that. Thanks!

I hope to avoid that dreaded cape.

 

[grandpappy]

My best friend plays Mario. He's not very good, but I at least have experience dealing with the matchup. Nair through fireballs when you can and try to use Ike's air momentum to get in his face doing that. But don't be predictable with it because he can obviously catch on and punish a wiffed Nair.

If you can, pick stages with walls so you can have the extra insurance of walljumping out of QD. He can use the walls to help his recovery, but a lot of Marios don't do that (and his recovery is too godlike even without them) but walk off Fair can ruin his day anyway. You want to recover as low as you can so he can't cape you.

Mario is a sucker for Ike combos, so if you can grab him, he's in trouble. (But he can combo you just as hard back) You want to stay in his face. Just close enough to keep him from using fireballs, but far enough that he can't touch you. Use that sword.

Also, you can crouch cancel fireballs if he's approaching really predictably with advancing ballz.

 

[metroid1117]

I had the chance to play the Sheik match-up for the first time in a while against Darkatma's Sheik in GF1, resetting the bracket and beating his Fox in GF2. (For reference, Darkatma is the best player in St. Louis and easily in the top 4 players of the Midwest, up there with Kels, Duck, and Darkrain.) IMO the match-up felt really doable since Ike could CC most of Sheik's attacks and juggle her for extremely long periods of time, but getting hit and edgeguarded still really sucked. The videos are on Twitch, but hopefully they'll be on YouTube soon.

 

[Moy]

I had the chance to play the Sheik match-up for the first time in a while against Darkatma's Sheik in GF1, resetting the bracket and beating his Fox in GF2. (For reference, Darkatma is the best player in St. Louis and easily in the top 4 players of the Midwest, up there with Kels, Duck, and Darkrain.) IMO the match-up felt really doable since Ike could CC most of Sheik's attacks and juggle her for extremely long periods of time, but getting hit and edgeguarded still really sucked. The videos are on Twitch, but hopefully they'll be on YouTube soon.

Waiting on those videos; I do not handle Sheiks very well. Scars from Melee.

 

[Commander]

I had the chance to play the Sheik match-up for the first time in a while against Darkatma's Sheik in GF1, resetting the bracket and beating his Fox in GF2. (For reference, Darkatma is the best player in St. Louis and easily in the top 4 players of the Midwest, up there with Kels, Duck, and Darkrain.) IMO the match-up felt really doable since Ike could CC most of Sheik's attacks and juggle her for extremely long periods of time, but getting hit and edgeguarded still really sucked. The videos are on Twitch, but hopefully they'll be on YouTube soon.

You don't ever say they are even. It is always "doable". Why do you like that word specifically? It makes it sound like Ike is at a disadvantage but gameplay always looks even.

 

[MLGF]

My playing partner plays Sheik, and it's honestly way better then people treat it. Honesty, it's a lot of fun and shouldn't be nearly as intimidating for Ike players as it is.