Ike's Matchups

[SpartBagelz]

How do you guys feel about ike v Roy?

 

[Y-L]

I think it's slightly in Ikes favor just because of all the easy ways to edgeguard and outspace Roy. Counter=dead, walk off fair=dead, Ikes hits with big knock back send Roy too far off the edge very easily. Roy wins the neutral though but gets juggled much more easily than Marth.

 

[Commander]

Its even just like every thing else.

I found one thing about the Link match up to piss me off today. Link's jab is safe on shield. The way I approach the match up is by standing just outside the range of Link's sword. If I get too close I have to go into shield. Normally I can get a shield grab out of this situation or something but not with Link. I have to roll back and then weave through his projectile all over again. This is just tedious.

 

[NWRL]

How does one fight Ivysaur as Ike. He's such a ******.

 

[GeZ]

How does one fight Ivysaur as Ike. He's such a ****er.

Ivysaur has trouble getting Ike off of her so you just space well and stay close. Bully her.

 

[Y-L]

Walk off dair on ivys recovery

 

[Masterphailure]

Today at Zenith, I realized I hate Metaknight. As soon as he hits you, it's an easy 50-60%. Granted I still won due to mind games but boy do I hate him now.

 

[xBlitz]

Ivy has an amazing nair and d tilt, and annoying projectile that you have to avoid. You can outspace and outpunish. Same with MK, but he has amazing tech chases. As for Link, you have to capitalize on every punish, and pressure him. Jumping out of shield after he jabs isn't bad, but rolling and QDing back in is optimal.

 

[MLGF]

Today at Zenith, I realized I hate Metaknight. As soon as he hits you, it's an easy 50-60%. Granted I still won due to mind games but boy do I hate him now.

MK has difficulty with anyone who can outspace him, so yeah. Play a tight neutral and Ike can win.
That said, it's a really close matchup, I'd say it's really even TBH.

 

[metroid1117]

MK-Ike is strange, both have great combo games but MK's "Sheik-Marth" hybrid of a neutral game is really hard to get around and he also wins in the edgeguarding department. I managed to beat K9 three out of four times at Evo (once in a friendly set and twice in tournament, versus a quick 3-0 by him the first time we played), but IMHO it's more of Ike beating K9 than Ike beating MK; Kappy aka Swag Train is a local MK user that gives me more trouble than K9, possibly because he's more familiar with Ike than K9 is. I think it's in MK's favor but it's doable.

 

[TylerX5]

K9 did not know how to DI throws and his MK was way to campy near the ledge and that closed in spacing allowed you to get in with your QD mix ups more than he should've since MK's Dash dance can weave in and out of QD's effect range when MK has enough stage to work with. That said your throw mix ups, spacing, tech, and onstage/off combo game were on point that game. Good job!

 

[TylerX5]

MK has difficulty with anyone who can outspace him, so yeah. Play a tight neutral and Ike can win.
That said, it's a really close matchup, I'd say it's really even TBH.

I have to disagree with this. MK's tech chase, combos, neutral game control, and recovery make it solidly in his favor.

His shield pressure is near impossible to punish if done correctly, his tech throw builds up damage and gives him an easy combo or edge guard set-up, he combo's Ike's hard, and his recovery is extremely hard to gimp since his fly recovers after each hit.

 

[MLGF]

Ah yes, Ike difficulty to handle pressure (and MK's pressure skillz) is something I forget when I posted that.
But I do think you're not taking into account MK does not like being outranged, a lot of his safest pressure is the result of his speed and range, when one is invalidated the MK has to be much safer in his approach and tech chases. Ike needs to space extremely hard yes, but it's not impossible for him to punish MK's approaches.
That being said, everything else you said is right, so yeah he wins pretty hard.

 

[Bryonato]

I've been working on my Ike for a couple weeks now and I'm considering using him in tournament as a secondary. I'm basically fed up with Ness v. Mario so I'm wondering how Ike fairs vs Mario? I would assume nair/fair to fight through fireballs.
What are our best conversions off of throws? I'd imagine we edgeguard Mario decently enough.
I saw Metroid doing fthrow -> QD -> RAR bair tonight vs. M2. Does that work on Mario?

I need to work on retaining my momentum with RAR out of QD. I often flub the input so I only get the turn around and not the momentum.

 

[metroid1117]

I've been working on my Ike for a couple weeks now and I'm considering using him in tournament as a secondary. I'm basically fed up with Ness v. Mario so I'm wondering how Ike fairs vs Mario? I would assume nair/fair to fight through fireballs.
What are our best conversions off of throws? I'd imagine we edgeguard Mario decently enough.
I saw Metroid doing fthrow -> QD -> RAR bair tonight vs. M2. Does that work on Mario?

I need to work on retaining my momentum with RAR out of QD. I often flub the input so I only get the turn around and not the momentum.

Ike is a lot of fun, I hope you use him as more than just a secondary once you get more comfortable with him .

Ike-Mario is probably easier than other characters, mostly because of Ike's massive disjoints - FAir and NAir can be used to keep Mario out and also eat through Fireballs, so you can FAir Mario in the face if he tries to full-hop Fireball. UThrow can be used to put Mario in a bad position while comboing into UAir or NAir at low %s, while FThrow, DThrow, and BThrow can be used to combo depending on the opponent's DI. If the opponent DI's Ike's throws every time, then they can only set up tech chases at mid %s. However, at lower %s, you can usually true combo into QD attack. With sub-optimal DI, you can do things like DACUS and QD -> FAir or RAR BAir to follow up. At higher %s, DThrow tends to combo floaties better than FThrow or BThrow, but again, all of Ike's follow-ups from throws that aren't UThrow are typically DI-dependent.

 

[Bryonato]

Ike-Mario is probably easier than other characters

ALL I NEED TO HEAR BBY.
Does fthrow -> offstage fair work?

 

[Y-L]

ALL I NEED TO HEAR BBY.
Does fthrow -> offstage fair work?

F/Bthrow->fair or Fthrow->QD->fair is one of Ike's main methods for killing. I find killing Mario pretty easy once he's off stage since most of his great recovery relies on just floating out there and you can outspace down b easily. Also off of fthrow you can get qd->RAR->bair if their DI is right. You can decide what you're going to do based off of their DI as soon as you start charging quickdraw.

 

[Bryonato]

I'm loving how all of this sounds. I really hate Mario with a passion.

Anyone have any footage in the matchup they can provide?

 

[Y-L]

I'm loving how all of this sounds. I really hate Mario with a passion.

Don't get too comfortable though because if you can't get past his fireballs it's really hard. #alwaysbanFD

 

[Bryonato]

Don't get too comfortable though because if you can't get past his fireballs it's really hard. #alwaysbanFD

I'm very comfortable on FD as a Ness player. I always imagined it'd be good for Ike, too. Not in this MU tho? Just because of fireball spam?

 

[Y-L]

I'm very comfortable on FD as a Ness player. I always imagined it'd be good for Ike, too. Not in this MU tho? Just because of fireball spam?

Personally I don't like FD at all for Ike, but against Mario and Link it's pretty much hell. I find my favorite stages to be GHZ and Battlefield, and good stages to be PS2, WW, and Dreamland. Platform stages or small flat stages I find are best for Ike.

Platforms can be really useful for getting around projectiles plus you can do things like run off platform->fair, waveland->bair, shield drop nair, knock opponent on platform->qd->jc usmash/DACUS tech chases which are almost always confirmed.

Small flat stages are good for characters without projectiles cause you can maneuver around the entire stage with QD while they can't stay out of your QD threat range.

GHZ will always be Ike's best stage though tbh. The platform can save you from juggles/projectiles while it's not too in the way. You can control the whole stage with QD and juggle people as well as chaingrab fast fallers. The horizontal blastzones are small which allows you to secure quick kills with fair and bair while the vertical blastzone is very tall which allows you to live at the same time as not harming Ike considering he almost never kills off the top. It has walls which allow you to walljump and live forever too.

 

[metroid1117]

I'm loving how all of this sounds. I really hate Mario with a passion.

Anyone have any footage in the matchup they can provide?

I beat a local Mario named Ellis recently, our match can be found here.

 

[King of Hoboz]

Got a Tourney Report! Looking for some advice.
So, I went to Facebook Official in Indianapolis, definitely was helpful in showing how I've improved.

My Pool had two notable people in them, Village Mascot and Lemon (Illinois player).
Against Village Mascot (Link):
I had played Mascot before, and he's ridiculous! The guy top 4'd the last big P:M tourney (Salt Shaker), which had a very similar rooster (Boss included). Fortunately for me, even then I didn't do awful. Last time we played, I was the only person who even took a game off him until finals.
Game 1 went horribly this time, 3 stock. I was completely un-adjusted to Link and him. Game 2, I won by a hair.
Game 3, I had the most -beautiful- read ever. That entire set, I was down by 100 constantly, at that point, I was 160%, and he was 20 or so. I even told him he had this at that point. Then, I threw him off stage and realized he was going to double jump, so I full jump'd in there and Neutral B spiked him immediately! I completely evened the set there and then.
Truth be told, I felt I could have done better and eventually beat him if I had more games, it came to a matter of me just messing up and getting hit by point-blank boomerangs when I had the opening to approach, or my tech being a little off and just missing the attack and getting hit by a point-blank boomerang.

Against Lemon (Mewtwo):
. . . ****! I've played moderate level'd Mewtwos until this point and never ever find them to be a problem, then this guy shows up and 2-stocks me cleanly twice. I have no idea how to handle him. Tilts just absolutely destroyed me, I couldn't figure what the best DI for D-Tilt was, especially after finding I couldn't CC-Shield a single option of his. His Tilts basically just stuff'd every attempt I made. I've had the impression this match-up was a matter of Ike just reading the hell out of Mewtwo, but I didn't figure it'd mean in the Neutral game the way it went there.
So, yeah, I need advice against the 'really good' Mewtwo, or just general advice. It was so hopeless for me.

So, I got 3rd seed, might have been able to pull out a 2nd seed if I were more prepared for Mascot.
. . . Sadly, I got bracket screwed (again >.>), and ran into MOTHER****ING DREPHEN, on round 1. Yeah, his pool was actually rough enough to get him a 2nd seed.

Against Drephen (Shiek):
This match actually revealed one huge thing, and my later match with Dr.X proved it as well. My style tends to involve of waiting and Dash Dancing to just watch what my opponent does, but Drephen wasn't having any of that. He played that match rather aggressively, or at least, he'd catch me cornering myself and just Dash-Attack into combos.
On the bright side though, anytime Drephen gave me the breathing room, I hard read the **** out of him. First 30 seconds of the match, I killed him immediately at 50% with an F-Smash. Also got the F-Smash on him on the 1st Stock of Game 2. Though, didn't really matter when I didn't know how to handle 80% of the match with him choking me out with grabs. Funny enough, he was Spot Dodging nearly every QD-Grab attempt I made, and something in my head at that moment was preventing me from doing my normal QD-WD bait on it. I think I was too scared of him just smacking me in the face if I did it.

Against Team Nick (Jigglypuff/Samus):
Jigglypuff, for me, has gotten a lot easier after playing a local Jiggs in 4 or 5 tourney sets across the year. Game 1, it was a 2 stock against his Jiggs, probably a 3 if I didn't give that opening for rest like I intended not to.

Samus. . . damnit Metroid, I can see why you had trouble with this match-up now, the Samus I played before must have just not been doing something right. I spent a lot of that game just platform camping, not even moving, just...sitting on a platform watching him do stuff so I could go in and hit with aerials. I'm still going to stick to what I said in the combo game, I lost a stock or 2 (and a game) to getting Nair'd mid combo.

Against Dr.X (Lucas):
I need to play this match-up more, like Mascot, I felt I could have done better if I had more practice or preparation. A lot of times, my playstyle kept putting myself into positions cornered near the ledge, and just sort of just looking for a spaced Nair. Fortunately, he wasn't pressuring -as- hard, but when he was it, it hurt a lot (being Lucas after all).

Any advice on a neutral game with aggressive players, and/or what neutral game exists vs Lucas?

Overall:

I feel I'm right at the edge of doing really well, but I need to push through and get more experience so I can win instead of being one stock away or something. . . then I can start focusing on pushing through people like Drephen or Lemon.

My reads were ridiculous though. 2 F-Smashes on Drephen, and I pulled off that Neutral B spike -4- times that day. Anyone who didn't beat me like this, weren't remotely close in a lot of instances.

 

[Y-L]

Please tell me the neutral b spike was recorded.

 

[King of Hoboz]

Sadly not that one with Village Mascot, I did get a 5 minute interlude on Stream between doubles with one of the guys associated with the hosts. I basically did a 5 minute combo video that included every trick in the book (par the critical hit), including a neutral b kill.

 

[GiantBoyDetective]

Sadly not that one with Village Mascot, I did get a 5 minute interlude on Stream between doubles with one of the guys associated with the hosts. I basically did a 5 minute combo video that included every trick in the book (par the critical hit), including a neutral b kill.

Yeah... that was me. You smashed me up good.
Some amazing combos in there. I got juggled left and right. Keep it up!

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Sadly not that one with Village Mascot, I did get a 5 minute interlude on Stream between doubles with one of the guys associated with the hosts. I basically did a 5 minute combo video that included every trick in the book (par the critical hit), including a neutral b kill.

Does every trick in the book include the 0% KO with up b?

 

[King of Hoboz]

Does every trick in the book include the 0% KO with up b?

I think that might have happened. I remember doing a kill like that at the tourney.

 

[DiZZ]

Only two mus stick out as hard for ike for me and they are pit and mk. Many say m2 is bad aswell though ike can read teleports easily and punish accordingly

 

[steelguttey]

hey guys! the Olimar Matchup Thread is doing the ike matchup this week! come on over and tell us how bad our character is!

 

[SanjiG]

Hello gentlemen, im looking for info on dealing with Luigi, how do you deal with his Down B spam ? and luigi in general ?

 

[Commander]

Hello gentlemen, im looking for info on dealing with Luigi, how do you deal with his Down B spam ? and luigi in general ?

I'm pretty sure Luigi is allergic to swords. If you just hit him with disjoint as he approaches then you should have less trouble. Dtilt is a good option for ground approaches and nair/fair for air.

 

[metroid1117]

hey guys! the Olimar Matchup Thread is doing the ike matchup this week! come on over and tell us how bad our character is!

Personally the only Olimar match-up experience I have is from 5 friendlies against SS at EVO, so I don't have much to contribute lol.

Hello gentlemen, im looking for info on dealing with Luigi, how do you deal with his Down B spam ? and luigi in general ?

Against down+B, you can either space them out with FAir/NAir or you can shield and punish it on block. If they rise into the air during down+B, they'll most likely try coming back down with a NAir or DAir - either move can be shield grabbed or countered with NAir/BAir/UAir OoS depending on their position. Luigi is very strange because he has an enormous wavedash distance and both FTilt/DSmash have a lot of reach, so his effective range is very far. The thing is though, that wavedashing has 10 frames of lag - if you keep yourself in mid-range, where he cannot easily wavedash -> FTilt without exposing himself during those 10 frames of lag, then you can get jabs if he tries to approach or you can pressure him with shffl'd FAirs/NAirs. If all else fails, you also can try rushing him down with QD attack while he wavedashes. Luigi's floatiness makes him prone to FThrow/BThrow combos at low %s and you can start adding in DThrow at mid/high %s. However, I wouldn't recommend using UAir since he'll just be able to NAir most of your follow-ups. At the same time though, it's worth noting that Ike's NAir/UAir/UTilt have sufficient disjoint to beat-out Luigi's aerials when spaced properly, so you can keep Luigi in the air for long periods of time without true comboing him. When edgeguarding him, you can run out and Counter his side+B or you can walk-off DAir/FAir his down+B. If he tries to up+B, you can opt to cover the edge with weak DAir -> BAir or just grab the edge and edgehop BAir as he comes up or after he lands on the stage. This match-up doesn't feel that bad IMO, but it definitely takes getting used to.

 

[Y-L]

So I was playing a bowser yesterday and as you may know a lot of bowsers tend to camp ledge and bait you then use his low % ledge attack. I found out if you stand right next to the ledge and shield the hit you can get a confirmed usmash OoS.
ITS NOT USELESS AFTER ALL

It probably works well against Links up b if you shield that (although if you're fast enough you can drop shield and f smash).

Do you guys ever start charging Quickdraw but you know you're going to run into charizards/bowsers fire breath, samus's missle, mewtwo/lucarios ball, mario/luigis fireball because even if you wd out of qd you'll still get hit?
I think up b out of Quickdraw might actually be a good option to escape that since it cancels almost immediately and puts you above the object (assuming you don't get punished too hard on the way back)

Trying to find use for a lot of niche stuff

 

[Commander]

So I was playing a bowser yesterday and as you may know a lot of bowsers tend to camp ledge and bait you then use his low % ledge attack. I found out if you stand right next to the ledge and shield the hit you can get a confirmed usmash OoS.
ITS NOT USELESS AFTER ALL

Why wouldn't you want to grab? If he is at a low percent it is unlikely that the upsmash would lead to anything while a grab can lead to an edgeguarding situation.

 

[Y-L]

Why wouldn't you want to grab? If he is at a low percent it is unlikely that the upsmash would lead to anything while a grab can lead to an edgeguarding situation.

If you don't know exactly where he's going to be (because his ledge attack moves him so quickly) usmash covers a lot more area, plus it has enough hit stun and not too much knockback (he must be below 100 percent to use that ledge attack) to follow up with an aerial. Grab would probably combo better, but if you're just standing right in the exact spot that would allow you to grab him from ledge attack he probably would not opt for a ledge attack.

 

[King of Hoboz]

You want niche combat tricks? I PRESENT TO YOU, THE INSTANT COUNTER!

Just do a Quickdraw -> Jump -> Down-B and watch as you recklessly approach projectiles with your counter and wreck your opponent in the process! Laugh as your opponent (and yourself) feels dumber for having lived that moment through.

 

[grandpappy]

You want niche combat tricks? I PRESENT TO YOU, THE INSTANT COUNTER!

Just do a Quickdraw -> Jump -> Down-B and watch as you recklessly approach projectiles with your counter and wreck your opponent in the process! Laugh as your opponent (and yourself) feels dumber for having lived that moment through.

I'm going to do this to my scrubby friend who thinks he is good because he can camp with Mario fire ballz.

 

[Y-L]

You want niche combat tricks? I PRESENT TO YOU, THE INSTANT COUNTER!

Just do a Quickdraw -> Jump -> Down-B and watch as you recklessly approach projectiles with your counter and wreck your opponent in the process! Laugh as your opponent (and yourself) feels dumber for having lived that moment through.

I actually use that all the time. Especially against spamus/lucario/other characters with a slow, strong projectile. It's also really good when you're charging Quickdraw when they're on the ground. Most people will opt for get up attack when they see you let go of Quickdraw so you just counter it and bam.

I prefer aerial counters in general because you can counter with momentum.

Sometimes I even counter OoS haha (PS don't do this, minimum of 7 frame startup before counter comes out)

 

[King of Hoboz]

I've done OoS Counters some and successfully. I haven't really used the Instant Counter yet. I've done it twice and failed, but I know it's a funny gimmick for exactly that reason. Retaliating at Ike is a really common thing when people get a hold of the QD gimmick.