Ike's Matchups

D

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both ike and sheik lose to dashdancing pretty much. i'm one of the best players against dashdance abuse because i play a godly marth, but those 2 characters really struggle to deal with DD abuse. i havent found an out to it with ike yet. for sheik i pretend i can to scare mediocre opponents out of it, but i still dont have a real answer to it.
 

CyberZixx

Smash Lord
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hmm, ok. So DD out of range with Roy, and go in with the punish into big Roy combo. I am ASS at edgeguarding this character, but ideally i'll just send him off so far he can't upB.
 

Jake The Preacher

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What's the breakdown on the Roy matchup? I played one the other day and lost, felt like I could've done it but I got killed stupid early, in my opinion, by and Fsmash and it was all downhill from there
 

X0dus

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both ike and sheik lose to dashdancing pretty much. i'm one of the best players against dashdance abuse because i play a godly marth, but those 2 characters really struggle to deal with DD abuse. i havent found an out to it with ike yet. for sheik i pretend i can to scare mediocre opponents out of it, but i still dont have a real answer to it.
I hate DD abuse, I usually approach with Nair and use the drift to go to where they are going to be or past them. But it leaves the problem that if they are shielding and facing me when I go past them, I'm in a worse position but if they aren't, I am safe or get a combo started. I also use QD JC grab or wavedash down. Grab gets them if they try to run away and wavedash down is a good mind game kind of thing that gets them to commit to an action when I don't.
 

X0dus

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What's the breakdown on the Roy matchup? I played one the other day and lost, felt like I could've done it but I got killed stupid early, in my opinion, by and Fsmash and it was all downhill from there
Out space the hell out of him and keep him out. You don't need to sweetspot as much as he does. Grabs are really effective against him because he is a fast faller. Use Up-throw and if he DI's in front of you, you can do Bair into Fair and probably kill him. Your other throws will pick up the slack at higher percents if he doesn't DI properly. Try to knock him off stage and gimp him. He has a poor recovery and is easy to kill. I like counter and dair when he is about to Up B. I recommend being defensive because his nair can shut you out and he doesn't have a problem killing and comboing you. He shuts down QD easily so use it sparingly. I've played both ends of the match-up and Roy definitely loses.
 

Jake The Preacher

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Best ideas on dealing with a run away/dashdance Fox. Lost to one this weekend and thing is I just couldn't grab or hit him. He'd get me with all these drive-by nairplanes(So stupid) and I could barely catch him and do anything. Granted I'm pretty sure I was auto piloting and playing sub par but I still lost. I was thinking maybe SH to QDA right before I hit the ground, that's worked before. Or classic overshooting attacks on my SH.
 

X0dus

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Best ideas on dealing with a run away/dashdance Fox. Lost to one this weekend and thing is I just couldn't grab or hit him. He'd get me with all these drive-by nairplanes(So stupid) and I could barely catch him and do anything. Granted I'm pretty sure I was auto piloting and playing sub par but I still lost. I was thinking maybe SH to QDA right before I hit the ground, that's worked before. Or classic overshooting attacks on my SH.
I'm just saying that I sympathize with where people are coming from but they're not playing the match-up right if they're letting Ike QD freely. - Metroid.
I QD grab or wavedash down and mix it up, Grab for obvious reasons and Lucky has a really good video on wavedash down. Its a really good bait move and mind game. And either nair earlier, wavedash back and punish, or shield it wit shield tilt and grab or roll. Also you have more freedom to QD so don't be scared to use it more.
 
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xBlitz

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Sup boys, been a while. Could use some in depth critiques of my set with a local sheik main that gave me some trouble at my last monthly. Really disappointed in my play; any advice with regards to what tools I should be abusing more in neutral and how to handle approaching/defending appropriately vs sheik in general would be appreciated (please ignore game 3)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UrQvhtlzK28
 

Wandering_Ico

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Sup boys, been a while. Could use some in depth critiques of my set with a local sheik main that gave me some trouble at my last monthly. Really disappointed in my play; any advice with regards to what tools I should be abusing more in neutral and how to handle approaching/defending appropriately vs sheik in general would be appreciated (please ignore game 3)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UrQvhtlzK28
Hope you don't mind if I give my critique on your match at such a delayed time, since I didn't see anyone else posting anything yet.

You really have to stop abusing that QD attack so much, it is really unsafe and I just recommend using it for when you absolutely know it's going to connect to get some space or possibly get a follow up aerial. Otherwise, you're left out in recovery frames from whiffing the attack. The Shiek player (Hello) really capitalized off of those shielded QD attacks. In addition, because the needles block out your QD, you're normally going to only get QD jump cancel stuff in combos or tech chases. However, you can pull out quick QD jc if your opponent isn't expecting it (don't hang onto the side b for long, tap and release into jc/whatever you think will work)

Aerials: Never ever use fair so close to people (unless it's mid-combo/hitstun to do so), that move takes way too long to even connect at those ranges in neutral. Better options would be your nair or even bair if you're close enough. (Mid-match, I agree with the commentators on using uair instead of that bair at 6:13 - try to use your aerials in the direction your opponent is located)
Hello also got you on your poor spacing of those nairs as well. While it is a good move to through out: if you don't properly space Ike's aerials, then you will get punished by shield grabs/w/e else. Don't overuse them though as you don't want to become too predictable and allow them to counter you. Mix up those approaches.

Saw some jab grabs which are alright, but Hello caught onto your tactics and just crouch canceled them into his own moves to beat out your grab animations. Jabx2 grab is a bit iffy as you must have the right positioning in order for the grab to connect as well, so only grab if the opponent is close to you (or dash and jc/normal grab them which I saw you do). In other words, mix up your jab usages and follow up for the full jab combo, jab(s) into tilts, etc. Whenever you do get grabs, try to force them to DI incorrectly by changing the direction for your throw and capitalize by using QD rar, other aerials, or even QD jc grabs for other follow ups. I don't exactly recommend up throwing at high percents, as you can't really get much off of it.

(Side Note - Might have been better off with an ftilt at 6:30)

Recovering from ledge options: Again, I noticed you like to use QD attack or ledge jump aerials. Try to incorporate some invincible fair or nair from ledge or jump waveland grab if the person is somewhat close to the stage (fair and waveland grab should be about the same distance so you can choose either, and nairs for when the opponent is close up - I also recommend you test the ranges out yourself in training for a better grasp of it).

Of course, you can use defensive routes (like waveland shield, or air dodge); however, the player you faced was fishing for those grab setups so it probably wouldn't have turned out too great.

Overall, you should work on your positioning and utilize different approaches to your game to not let the opponent catch onto your patterns and counter you. Also, read up on those match up tips here against Shiek and you should be fine. (Should be able to use the search function. Too bad this forum doesn't have similar matchup posts like dustloop's)

Hope that helps you out, mang. Good luck out there!
 
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Kneato

Totoro Joe
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395
Matchup from :ike:'s Perspective (+3 has Ike winning)

+3:
+2::samus2::olimar::zelda::jigglypuff::yoshi2::ness2::bowser2:
+1::mewtwopm::wario::luigi2::ivysaur::ganondorf::dk2::charizard:
0::lucario::link2::roypm::lucas::pikachu2::sonic::mario2::snake::popo::gw:
-1::falco::fox::toonlink::falcon::sheik::rob::zerosuitsamus::dedede:
-2::wolf::marth::metaknight::pit:
:kirby2:
-3:

?: :peach::squirtle:

What do you guys think? Anything wildly inaccurate? What about the unknown matchups?

This is for updating the (outdated) community matchup chart.
 

BushidoBoyd

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Matchup from :ike:'s Perspective (+3 has Ike winning)

+3:
+2::samus2::olimar::zelda::jigglypuff::yoshi2::ness2::bowser2:
+1::mewtwopm::wario::luigi2::ivysaur::ganondorf::dk2::charizard:
0::lucario::link2::roypm::lucas::pikachu2::sonic::mario2::snake::popo::gw:
-1::falco::fox::toonlink::falcon::sheik::rob::zerosuitsamus::dedede:
-2::wolf::marth::metaknight::pit:
:kirby2:
-3:

?: :peach::squirtle:

What do you guys think? Anything wildly inaccurate? What about the unknown matchups?

This is for updating the (outdated) community matchup chart.

From my personal experience, i believe the DK matchup is +0 because of his guaranteed combos (and sometimes 0-death) off of a grab, and his ability to space as well as Ike with some of his moves; down tilt, FAir, and FTilt.

And i believe the sonic matchup is -1, this is because of the ease in which sonic can get an aerial Ike off of stage (with side-b, which cannot be crouch cancelled when aerial) and follow up with a spring to completely and safely disable Ike's linear recovery. The only counter play i have to a spring is a predetermined wall jump, and to up-b the spring RIGHT as the sword leaves my hand. That specific hitbox has the power to eat through the spring and prevent it from hitting you into the "Ike Zone")

Aside from that, against Sonic i have to play very safe, VERY VERY safe, because any flub can lead to a grab tech chase combo (which easily leads offstage) from an upthrow DAir, this can mean a perfectly spaced forward tilt or an L-cancelled nair can be punished in certain cases, if the sonic has his timing correct.
 
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Your Face

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Hey everyone! I've been having a lot of troubles against Kirby. When he crouches, I can't Jab/grab him, and if I try and Fair, he can just Nair/Fair me. Kirby's Dtilt is also much faster than Ike's downward Ftilt, so I can't use that. If I approach with a Nair, he can CC it, and then I end up in the situation above. Also, Kirby's edgeguarding against Ike seems pretty easy for him. Another thing, how should I edgeguard Kirby? He can always either swallowcide me or Nair/Fair/Bair me if I go in low, then I end up getting gimped. Should I switch to another character against Kirby? I play Ike (duh), Marth, Roy, and a little bit of Link, Lucario, Falco, and Ganondorf.
 

BushidoBoyd

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Hey everyone! I've been having a lot of troubles against Kirby. When he crouches, I can't Jab/grab him, and if I try and Fair, he can just Nair/Fair me. Kirby's Dtilt is also much faster than Ike's downward Ftilt, so I can't use that. If I approach with a Nair, he can CC it, and then I end up in the situation above. Also, Kirby's edgeguarding against Ike seems pretty easy for him. Another thing, how should I edgeguard Kirby? He can always either swallowcide me or Nair/Fair/Bair me if I go in low, then I end up getting gimped. Should I switch to another character against Kirby? I play Ike (duh), Marth, Roy, and a little bit of Link, Lucario, Falco, and Ganondorf.
My main training parter has a good Kirby, i know the feels. You kinda wanna have the same gameplan as you do against jiggs, except Kirby can actually duck under your grab which is super annoying lol. What i mean by this is you want to try to space NAirs and FAirs against them, keep them out. If jiggs gets in, she's gonna grab, or Uptilt rest, Kirby will just duck under or CC DTilt your main closeup gameplan (Jab, Grab) so just space em out with Ragnell, but don't give up too much stage control when you're doing it. I honestly think this matchup is in Kirby's favor though, so its going to be a rough match. I like to do a spaced downward angled FTilt if Kirby is crouching and wavedashing around in neutral cuz it'll catch Kirby even when he's crouched.

As for edgeguarding, i just kinda grab ledge and keep invincibility as long as i can, and react to Kirby with an aerial.
**Assuming i have invincibility;
Bair from ledge if kirby is floating slightly above/behind me
DAir from ledge if kirby is floating beneath, trying to stall for an UP-B or something
NAir from ledge if kirby comes in with an attack, just NAir onto stage and let the late hitbox smack kirby from behind you
UAir from ledge if kirby tries to float above (Probably one of the least used)
And i'll sometimes go out and intercept them with a QD FAir or just a running leap to Fair if i notice Kirby trying to stall further away, or i can predict them doing a straight horizontal recovery

Btw, if Kirby is camping on ledge, i usually just let him come back on stage for free, i've tried to get my hands dirty playing for ledge with Kirby but i usually lose 3/5 times by a swallowcide, so i just gave it up lol. Space out SHFFL Fairs, or F tilt also to keep him pressured at ledge, but usually you don't want to get too close.

Hope this was helpful :)
 

Journal

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I'm sure this isn't revolutionary, but couldn't a QD grab and a QD pivot grab mixup cover dash dancing? It's kind of like an overshoot.
 

lordhelmet

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Matchup from :ike:'s Perspective (+3 has Ike winning)

+3:
+2::samus2::olimar::zelda::jigglypuff::yoshi2::ness2::bowser2:
+1::mewtwopm::wario::luigi2::ivysaur::ganondorf::dk2::charizard:
0::lucario::link2::roypm::lucas::pikachu2::sonic::mario2::snake::popo::gw:
-1::falco::fox::toonlink::falcon::sheik::rob::zerosuitsamus::dedede:
-2::wolf::marth::metaknight::pit:
:kirby2:
-3:

?: :peach::squirtle:

What do you guys think? Anything wildly inaccurate? What about the unknown matchups?

This is for updating the (outdated) community matchup chart.
+3:
+2::samus2::zelda::bowser2::ganondorf:
+1::ness2::yoshi2::jigglypuff::mewtwopm::wario::dk2::peach::mario2:
0::link2::roypm::lucas::sonic::snake::falcon::sheik::dedede::kirby2:
-1::falco::fox::marth::toonlink::zerosuitsamus::ivysaur::squirtle::luigi2::pikachu2::gw::charizard:
-2::wolf::metaknight:

-3:

?: :olimar::lucario::pit::popo::rob:

Luigi actually destroys Ike if they play the matchup right.. it's so gay. And I have fairly extensive experience vs all these charactes since I travel quite a bit. Also Zard ****S UP Ike. Ask Keist. It could be -1, but damn that is an annoying matchup. I can justify any placement here.
 
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Your Face

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+3:
+2::samus2::zelda::bowser2::ganondorf:
+1::ness2::yoshi2::jigglypuff::mewtwopm::wario::dk2::peach::mario2:
0::link2::roypm::lucas::sonic::snake::falcon::sheik::dedede::kirby2:
-1::falco::fox::marth::toonlink::rob::zerosuitsamus::ivysaur::squirtle::luigi2::pikachu2:
-2::wolf::metaknight:
:charizard::gw:
-3:

?: :olimar::lucario::pit::popo:

Luigi actually destroys Ike if they play the matchup right.. it's so gay. And I have fairly extensive experience vs all these charactes since I travel quite a bit. I can justify any placement here.
What makes Wolf -2 when Fox/Falco are -1? Also, what makes Sheik and Kirby at 0? Seems like all their moves come out faster than Ikes, and they both have great gimping capabilities. Also needles shut down QD movement, right?
 

lordhelmet

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What makes Wolf -2 when Fox/Falco are -1? Also, what makes Sheik and Kirby at 0? Seems like all their moves come out faster than Ikes, and they both have great gimping capabilities. Also needles shut down QD movement, right?
Made some updates to my post. I'm not super versed vs Wolf, it could be -1, but things like nair and laser pressure are soo gay lol. Edgegaurding him is hard, and the cg doesn't work quite as well. It could be that I'm bad at the matchup, but the difference with Falco is that any strong move can clip him too far to recover. And Fox is so light and falls so fast that our combo game is just so devastating on him.

I used to think Kirby destroyed Ike (I play Tetra a lot and have a pretty positive record against her). Kirby can get some serious combos and edgeguards on us, but I think our range and power balance that. It might even be a winning mu for Ike honestly.

I'm kinda torn on Sheik. I thought it was a -1/-2 when she could do all the bthrow mixup bull****, but now that that's gone, I feel like she can't do that much. Things like Ike ftilt and fair can keep her out, and like falco, any randy strong hit we get on her will lead to an edgeguard situation.
 

Tobb99

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I played a bit Ike at the last tourney I entered, Azension July 9-10. I'm thinking of having Ike as a secondary. And I played against my friends Icies. He's an Ivy main but an Icies main in Melee, and he's pretty good with them in PM as well, he actually likes them more in PM because he thinks they're less gimmicky in PM. And to me the match-up seems to be a bit in Ike's favor. It's kind of like Marth, how he can abuse his range, but he got some more tools which Marth lacks. He got a Samus-like D-smash which is good for separating the Icies, he got a good 3rd hit jab which can break CC. He also has the QD which allows for all kinds of mix-ups both offensively and defensively. I'd say it's in Ike's favor.
 

BushidoBoyd

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I think Kirby destroys Ike. Yeah Ike has range on Kirby but Kirby has an AMAZING edgeguard on Ike, and QD becomes pretty useless against a good Kirby. This is because Kirby can duck under QD attack AND QD Grab/Standing Grab. Grabbing is a big part of Ikes games so you literally in Neutral game have to Spam FAir or Nair, and try to read an approach and stuff it with Up tilt or up angled F tilt or guess that kirby will crouch and aim your F tilt downwards. It's honestly so much work for Ike just to get an opening in Neutral, and edguarding is very hard because of Kirby's multiple Jumps and burst mobility with his up b in the air.

I'd say the Kirby - Ike Matchup is -2 in Kirby's favor
 
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TimeMuffinPhD

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What's most important for Ike against Wolf stage wise? Does he really need platforms to avoid lasers? Or does he really want a lot of space? What are his priorities?
 

Bionis

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What's most important for Ike against Wolf stage wise? Does he really need platforms to avoid lasers? Or does he really want a lot of space? What are his priorities?
In my personal opinion you really need platforms. It's important to be able to have somewhere to go away from lasers. As for whether you want a lot of space or not, that depends. I don't like having too much space because the wolf can just run away and laser more easily. I play more rush down so small stages are better. But if you play more defensive then maybe you like larger stages. Hope this helps.
 

bboss

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+3:
+2::samus2::zelda::bowser2::ganondorf:
+1::ness2::yoshi2::jigglypuff::mewtwopm::wario::dk2::peach::mario2:
0::link2::roypm::lucas::sonic::snake::falcon::sheik::dedede::kirby2:
-1::falco::fox::marth::toonlink::zerosuitsamus::ivysaur::squirtle::luigi2::pikachu2::gw::charizard:
-2::wolf::metaknight:

-3:

?: :olimar::lucario::pit::popo::rob:

Luigi actually destroys Ike if they play the matchup right.. it's so gay. And I have fairly extensive experience vs all these charactes since I travel quite a bit. Also Zard ****S UP Ike. Ask Keist. It could be -1, but damn that is an annoying matchup. I can justify any placement here.
Personally I think that Ike vs. Snake is +1 for Snake... Idk it just seems that Snake can camp him out and stuff

EDIT: I now realize that it's quite even. No one really gets an advantage, as both these characters throws are invaluable to them in this mu.
 
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SolidSolo

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So, can someone lend me some help with the Zelda match-up?
I’ve played against a decent Zelda in CFL. The key is to not be afraid to apply pressure and be sure to jump over the knight but always make sure you don’t run into Zelda’s anti air. Keep mid-close range spacing because she’ll neutral b if you aren’t attacking safe on shield. Grab mix ups should work for that too. In conclusion you’ll have to do some dodging but once you get in, it shouldn’t be too bad
 

Idon

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I’ve played against a decent Zelda in CFL. The key is to not be afraid to apply pressure and be sure to jump over the knight but always make sure you don’t run into Zelda’s anti air. Keep mid-close range spacing because she’ll neutral b if you aren’t attacking safe on shield. Grab mix ups should work for that too. In conclusion you’ll have to do some dodging but once you get in, it shouldn’t be too bad
Bro, that post was made 5 years ago.
 

Strong Badam

Prince of the Underworld
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Sorry I’m new here lol. This whole forum thing is archaic to me.
Hey! Welcome to the boards!
Like Idon said, you quoted a post that was 5 years old. That also means you are probably giving advice to someone for the wrong game, since Smash Wii U and Smash Ultimate were not out at that time. This is the Project M subforum. Ultimate boards are up higher on the front page.
 

~?~

The Strangest Link Main
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Actually, quite often, when I am playing against another Link, or a Young Link, I switch to Ike, because while I tend to normally do well against other Links, it turns into a projectile war, which to me is toxic. Ike Nair is too good against Link tools to not use him instead of doing a ditto. Can we just call him Nair instead of Ike? It's a better and more fitting name anyway.
 

Strong Badam

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Actually, quite often, when I am playing against another Link, or a Young Link, I switch to Ike, because while I tend to normally do well against other Links, it turns into a projectile war, which to me is toxic. Ike Nair is too good against Link tools to not use him instead of doing a ditto. Can we just call him Nair instead of Ike? It's a better and more fitting name anyway.
Do you mean Toon Link? Young Link isn't playable in Project M.
 

~?~

The Strangest Link Main
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Do you mean Toon Link? Young Link isn't playable in Project M.
Oh. I really need to pay more attention to the game-title portion of the description bar. Nair is good... I mean Ike is good in Ulti.
Anyway, uh....
"My B" -Chillin Dude 2015
 
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