metroid1117
Smash Master
Assuming that the Falco will be camping that hardcore, I doubt you'll even have the chance to QD on the ground safely; it would probably be better to Counter OoS like some Marths do in Melee.
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Ike Social Thread
- Thread starter Muhti
- Start date
King of Hoboz
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, he's right. This Falco was shooting -really low- to the ground. No QD moments, counter would have been he right choice, and i really should practice it, the up-down input is a tad un-intuitive for me as of now. Anyway, for my first major tournament and I get 1st seed and win against a legit Shiek for it. I'll take it.
Commander
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2013
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- 591
QD as a whole is a bad idea against Falco and to a lesser extent Sheik. Every single time you try to use it in an approach you will get hit with a projectile. I took each Falco to PS2 for each set. I like PS2 for the match up, not only because it is my favorite starter, but its layout helps Ike a lot. The lack of a top platform and the fact that its two small platforms are far apart make it feel a bit like FD in that you can chain grab and combo into oblivion on it and if they do land on a platform you can tech chase. I liked having the platforms around because they helped me weave around Falco's lasers. Part of what helps me make counter might just have to do with being on the
Thane of Blue Flames
Fire is catching.
On what frame does Counter come out? I think Ike's jumpsquat is 5 frames, so Counter OoS may not be the fastest option. We're already a frame behind Marth in that regard and I seem to remember that in Brawl, Ike's Counter frames kick in later, too.
Commander
Smash Ace
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The way I think of it is that Marth's counter is the first half of the animation while Ike's is the second half. Of course this is over generalized and is probably significantly off from the right timing.
Edit: This is the frame data from 2.1 or something. Is it still accurate?
SpecialLw | Counter
Total: 59
Counter window: 6-23
16 freeze frames on Counter trigger.
Entire body is invincible frames 6-11.
Edit: This is the frame data from 2.1 or something. Is it still accurate?
SpecialLw | Counter
Counter window: 6-23
16 freeze frames on Counter trigger.
Entire body is invincible frames 6-11.
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metroid1117
Smash Master
I doubt that Counter has been changed since then, so I'd assume that it's accurate.The way I think of it is that Marth's counter is the first half of the animation while Ike's is the second half. Of course this is over generalized and is probably significantly off from the right timing.
Edit: This is the frame data from 2.1 or something. Is it still accurate?
SpecialLw | Counter
Total: 59
Counter window: 6-23
16 freeze frames on Counter trigger.
Entire body is invincible frames 6-11.
Commander
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2013
- Messages
- 591
SpecialLwHit | Counter Attack
Total: 36
Hit: 4-7
IASA: 26
1.2 Damage Multiplier
Base damage is 10. Maximum damage is 999.
Entire body is invincible frames 1-6.
Can Jump Cancel/Double Jump frames 18 and onward.
Do you have any idea why the gap in the counter attack is there? Was it left over from Brawl? It kinda sucks getting Roy zoned with counter when you already need to be on the same level as the opponent for it to hit.
Hit: 4-7
IASA: 26
1.2 Damage Multiplier
Base damage is 10. Maximum damage is 999.
Entire body is invincible frames 1-6.
Can Jump Cancel/Double Jump frames 18 and onward.
Do you have any idea why the gap in the counter attack is there? Was it left over from Brawl? It kinda sucks getting Roy zoned with counter when you already need to be on the same level as the opponent for it to hit.
SpecialLwHit | Counter Attack
Total: 36
Hit: 4-7
IASA: 26
1.2 Damage Multiplier
Base damage is 10. Maximum damage is 999.
Entire body is invincible frames 1-6.
Can Jump Cancel/Double Jump frames 18 and onward.
Do you have any idea why the gap in the counter attack is there? Was it left over from Brawl? It kinda sucks getting Roy zoned with counter when you already need to be on the same level as the opponent for it to hit.
It could be something to look into.
metroid1117
Smash Master
Are you referring to how the hitbox doesn't cover Ike's back? I'm not sure if that's from Brawl, but considering how far in front of Ike his sword reaches on the counter attack, I don't think it's that big of a deal. The range on the front looks like it makes it slightly better for countering projectiles than Marth's, since Marth's seems to have less horizontal range than Ike's.SpecialLwHit | Counter Attack
Total: 36
Hit: 4-7
IASA: 26
1.2 Damage Multiplier
Base damage is 10. Maximum damage is 999.
Entire body is invincible frames 1-6.
Can Jump Cancel/Double Jump frames 18 and onward.
Do you have any idea why the gap in the counter attack is there? Was it left over from Brawl? It kinda sucks getting Roy zoned with counter when you already need to be on the same level as the opponent for it to hit.
Commander
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2013
- Messages
- 591
I'm referring to the lack of hitbox on his arm. I've missed people because I was too close and hit them with my arm. I don't think it necessarily needs to be fixed or anything but I was wondering if it was deliberate because all of Ike's other attacks have hitboxes on his arms.
Thane of Blue Flames
Fire is catching.
I had no idea where to put this, but here's a recovery tip that may already be known, but I haven't seen. When recovering high on arenas like PS2/Battlefied/Dreamland, if you QD attack right over the corner of a platform, you can slip off quick and it is effectively an edge cancel. With some good drift you can maneuver back a little and land a solid bair on anyone trying to space an edgeguard close to the ledge.
Every little bit.
Every little bit.
SpiderMad
Smash Master
- Joined
- May 6, 2012
- Messages
- 4,968
Compared to an edge cancel like Phantasm though it takes like forever, you can get (or use to?) a somewhat true edge cancel if you get the actual end to stop at the point and drift off but using the manual attack I can't ever come close to getting a good cancel last I tested since it seems he pretty much has to finish the sword swipe before it can cancel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zQfq78B7Edw#t=114 With QD dramatically shortened the usefulness of the cool stuff went down.
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Thane of Blue Flames
Fire is catching.
Nice intro though.
D
Deleted member
Guest
also the worst video editing since the early MvC2 days.
xBlitz
Smash Apprentice
http://www.twitch.tv/evenmatchupgaming/b/506912138
So, my problem when I play PM is a lack of MU knowledge, and jumping into my opponent when they're shielding with unsafe options (mainly nair) If you have any tips for the MUs I played, as well as some general Diddy tips, that'd be great.
EMG Blitz vs [KL] Kid 1:31:00
EMG Blitz vs EMG Coast 1:42:00
EMG Blitz vs [BP] EMG Smash Central 2:07:00
I noticed quite a few of my mistakes, but I feel like the combined effort of other Ike mains can help point things out both obvious and less obvious to me. Thanks
So, my problem when I play PM is a lack of MU knowledge, and jumping into my opponent when they're shielding with unsafe options (mainly nair) If you have any tips for the MUs I played, as well as some general Diddy tips, that'd be great.
EMG Blitz vs [KL] Kid 1:31:00
EMG Blitz vs EMG Coast 1:42:00
EMG Blitz vs [BP] EMG Smash Central 2:07:00
I noticed quite a few of my mistakes, but I feel like the combined effort of other Ike mains can help point things out both obvious and less obvious to me. Thanks
Commander
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2013
- Messages
- 591
You were only using fthrow and bhrow in all the matches. You should work in uthrows and dthrows not only because they are also amazing but your opponents were learning how to DI and you weren't able to follow up after that. Another thing is that you need to know the distance of our QD very well. There were times were you were trying to use he QD attack after f>throw or something and you would miss because you were too short. You could have charged a little more or jumped into nair to continue following up. Also you need to mix up your QD options more. You would really only do grabs and the QD attack out of it, occasionally an up smash. Work in aerials out of it and when you do grab mix up your throws.
A little thing I noticed is when edgeguarding Ivysaur by edgehogging, you pulled away from the stage and bair'd which caused you to miss but had you pulled down you probably would have hit him.
That commentator sucked.
A little thing I noticed is when edgeguarding Ivysaur by edgehogging, you pulled away from the stage and bair'd which caused you to miss but had you pulled down you probably would have hit him.
That commentator sucked.
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xBlitz
Smash Apprentice
It's just a small group of friends hosting weekly tournaments and streaming for the Even Matchup Gaming fans; we're leveling up our gameplay and commentary
I approach way to often with nair (especially on shield), and definitely have been dropping opportunities to do so to continue/establish combos. As for my throws, I used to d throw all the time, but dropped it for the forward throw fair/back throw qd reversed back air, and used d throw on spacies for super hard reads. I'll definitely try to remember to mix up my throws and use a couple more aerials with regards to QD approaching (as well as WD out of QD). If I start to play cautiously with regards to not getting grabbed, I think that will also help me out in the Ivy/Charizard MU
Commander
Smash Ace
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- Nov 7, 2013
- Messages
- 591
The way you counter getting grabbed isn't with caution. You counter it with aggression. An opponent can only really grab you when you mess something up, whiff an attack, hit a shield without putting in heavy shield pressure, bad neutral game, etc.. If you keep pressure and aggression up on them and keep them on the defensive, there is less room for them to grab you and less things for you to mess up on. When you notice yourself doing something a lot, like the dthrows you mentioned, don't think you need to drop that strategy entirely, you just need to work in other things as alternatives or things that will help the existing strategy. A good player should always be able to use all of his tools effectively.
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Ahenobarbus
Smash Cadet
Is it bad that every time I hear about the violence in Crimea, I just picture Putin as King Ashnard?
metroid1117
Smash Master
I can't unsee it now -___-.
Commander
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2013
- Messages
- 591
You didn't see it before? My family immigrated from Russia/Ukraine so I guess I'm more aware of Putin and the region's politics than most Americans.
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xBlitz
Smash Apprentice
Thane of Blue Flames
Fire is catching.
aero walks into the ike social
ike avatars everywhere looool
sup ike players?
ike avatars everywhere looool
sup ike players?
Player -0
Smash Hero
*Walks into an heavy Ike avatar thread with a Pikachu Avi*
'Sup.
On counter - Whenever I've used it I feel like it's quicker than Marth's actually. There's much less startlag than Brawl that's for sure. It might just be me comparing the Brawl and P:M versions.
'Sup.
On counter - Whenever I've used it I feel like it's quicker than Marth's actually. There's much less startlag than Brawl that's for sure. It might just be me comparing the Brawl and P:M versions.
Well at the very least Ike/Marth should be getting 3.02 frame data soon(TM)
Commander
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2013
- Messages
- 591
Don't mains of other often characters use pictures of their mains as well? It is at least very common among people who main the FE characters.aero walks into the ike social
ike avatars everywhere looool
sup ike players?
It isn't faster than Marth's. Though I think they may have a few overlapping frames where Marth's counter ends and Ike's begins because I don't feel I have to change my timing to make them work.
iunno, I've at the very least never used a Zelda avatar.
Thane of Blue Flames
Fire is catching.
Hey, I'm using Lucina.
BlinkIV
Avenger
I'm not even using a FE character.
Player -0
Smash Hero
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NO I MEANT IKE >:[
Player -0
Smash Hero
I don't see that but okayz.
iDunno, specifically I find that a lot of Fire Emblem characters (especially the main ones) have very similar personalities.
Thane of Blue Flames
Fire is catching.
You say that like it's an insult.
omg that meme is still alive?
anyway im sort of new to Ike, does he have any advanced techniques I should be aware of?
anyway im sort of new to Ike, does he have any advanced techniques I should be aware of?
how do you jump cancel it? Everyone I've asked about it says the Wiki description is just a typo, and that the jumo cancel isn't in the. If you can figure it out could you please post a vidoeSpecialLwHit | Counter Attack
Total: 36
Can Jump Cancel/Double Jump frames 18 and onward.
.