Ike Social Thread

[Chef2]

Hi guys! I've been playing PM Ike for quite some time now, and can do all the requisite tech with him, i.e. QD-Wavedash, QD-Grab, etc and I can do all of the Melee fundamental tech like shield grabbing, wavelanding, l canceling, etc and use them effectively in my gameplay. My question is, currently I use a Wii Classic controller (My first smash game was Brawl)
* I can't post links yet, but it's the first google image result when you search "wii classic controller" *
and I'm wondering if it would be in my best interest to switch to a Gamecube controller. I use y to jump on the wii classic, and as you can see from the picture it's extremely close to the c-stick, making QD RAR bairs, and aerials in general, very quick and easy for me. Right now when I use a Gamecube controller I can't do half the stuff I normally do, including but not limited to wavedashing consecutively, dashdance-wavedash, RAR-bairs, etc. Thanks for the help!

Ooo a fellow wiimoter! I also use the wiimote since my wii broke and I can only use a wii U.

Bottom line, if you can do all the tech just fine with a wiimote, then switching to a GameCube controller won't benefit you other than no input delay and less frustrating syncing of wiimotes at tournaments.

Regardig the delay, it's neglible. I tried grinding out the math on just how much input delay you have. Wiimotes use Bluetooth, which is EMR so the wave travels at the speed of light which means no real delay between the wiimote and the console. However, the signal conversions is where time is taken, but this is still an insanely small number. The delay is much less than a frame, or 1/60th of a second. So while there is a small small delay compared to the instant GC, it's not noticeable. Try plugging in a GC and wiimote and hit attack at the same time with the same char, the GC controller won't even win everytime the delay is so tiny.

It can be a pain at tournaments syncing your wiimote to a bunch of different wiis all the time. Plus to true disconnect you have to hold red wii sync button for 10 seconds, causing more delay. Some tournaments ban wiimotes which ultimately would suck for us haha.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Classic controller, not Wiimote, Chef.

The Classic Controller, and especially the classic controller pro > GCC in my opinion, so rock on.

 

[SpiderMad]

Classic controller, not Wiimote, Chef.

The Classic Controller, and especially the classic controller pro > GCC in my opinion, so rock on.

It actually does have the same flaws as Light press Air dodge, but similar to my opinion I feel the Light press Air dodge is so amazing that I'd gladly take those flaws for the benefits.
http://smashboards.com/threads/a-di...ad-thing-health-related.360937/#post-17071426

Every L-cancel triggers tech, every shield triggers tech (and PS); both of these trigger your 20 frame tech window and the subsequent 40 frames you can't tech after (might be wrong on numbers). You can't Aerial OOS or Shield Drop Aerial without letting go of shield using a Tether character (might want to test this yourself to see if it's like I imagine it is for the Wii controllers). You can't buffer shield in the air while in a free state.

 

[Chef2]

I meant classic controller. It's plugged into the wiimote. My bad.

 

[Chef2]

It actually does have the same flaws as Light press Air dodge, but similar to my opinion I feel the Light press Air dodge is so amazing that I'd gladly take those flaws for the benefits.
http://smashboards.com/threads/a-di...ad-thing-health-related.360937/#post-17071426

Every L-cancel triggers tech, every shield triggers tech (and PS); both of these trigger your tech window and the subsequent 40 frames you can't tech after. You can't Aerial OOS or Platform Drop Aerial without letting go of shield (might want to test this yourself to see if it's like I imagine it is for the Wii controllers). You can't buffer shield in the air while in a free state.

I'm kinda lost on the tech stuff your saying, but if the gist is you can't tech if you've l cancelled recently, I've never noticed. I can definitely aerial OoS while holding shield, and I can definitely platform drop without letting go of shield.

I'd say your right about not being able to buffer shield tho as you'd airdodge.

EDIT: I can wall tech after an l-cancel within the 40 frames. Tested by using a reverse aerial before getting falcon punched (via my other controller input) into the middle column on peaches castle. Not sure if wall techs are different than ground techs tho.

EDIT 2: You CANT tech if you l-cancelled within the 40 frames. I used a move with less hitlag and nope can't tech the column.

 

[SpiderMad]

Sorry, meant Shield drop and for Tether characters (it will trigger tether). It's do-able but annoying to still do Aerial OOS, but instant aerials from a platform drop instead of triggering the tether is very very hard.

You can test the tech fail using debug menu and 2 controllers.

 

[arcnormal]

Thanks everyone! You can't imagine the crap I get from the people at locals, and my friends, when they see me whip out a wiimote and a classic controller, so I'll just direct them to this thread haha. SpiderMad, can you explain more on your post? Is the 40 frame tech window which triggers on L-cancel restricted to the Wii controllers?

 

[SpiderMad]

I gotta go right now but I'll be back

 

[Chef2]

Oh you are right I used a move with less hitlag and yeah I can't tech the wall. Hmm. Interesting. I suppose that's a pretty niche setback but it's there nonetheless

 

[Chef2]

Thanks everyone! You can't imagine the crap I get from the people at locals, and my friends, when they see me whip out a wiimote and a classic controller, so I'll just direct them to this thread haha. SpiderMad, can you explain more on your post? Is the 40 frame tech window which triggers on L-cancel restricted to the Wii controllers?

Also yeah that's probably the worst part of a wii controller is the heat you take for using one haha

 

[arcnormal]

lol yeah, the insults are intense. I basically have to win or else I'll hear claims of "Maybe you should use a Gamecube controller, theres at least 4 frames of input delay" etc
So Chef, if I'm reading this correctly L-canceling activates the 40 frame tech window for the Wii Classic? Do you know if this happens for the Gamecube controller as well?

 

[Chef2]

lol yeah, the insults are intense. I basically have to win or else I'll hear claims of "Maybe you should use a Gamecube controller, theres at least 4 frames of input delay" etc
So Chef, if I'm reading this correctly L-canceling activates the 40 frame tech window for the Wii Classic? Do you know if this happens for the Gamecube controller as well?

Yeah like spidermad said it does activate a window where you can't l-cancel. At least by the testing I did (l-cancel aerial then falcon elbow, couldn't tech the column on the peaches castle). And there definitely is not 4 frames of delay, it's much less than a frame.

 

[arcnormal]

Haha yeah, I know there aren't four frames. I'd definitely be able to feel it if there were. That's just what my friends say to dissuade me from using that controller.

That tech thing is actually problematic, because if I come down with an aerial and if they read me and fsmash me or something I won't be able to tech the stage if I DI down. Guess I need to see if that happens on GCC too

 

[SpiderMad]

Yeah what you just typed is it.

 

[Starfall11]

It's not a problem as long as you can perform all of the tech.

Are you able to DACUS reliably? Or Usmash out of QD?

I get bashed a lot for using PAD in all of the Arcade Stick fighting game tournaments. Well... not bashed, but people try to encourage me to switch over. As long as you got the tech down, it should be fine.

 

[SpiderMad]

It's not a problem as long as you can perform all of the tech.

Are you able to DACUS reliably? Or Usmash out of QD?

I get bashed a lot for using PAD in all of the Arcade Stick fighting game tournaments. Well... not bashed, but people try to encourage me to switch over. As long as you got the tech down, it should be fine.

Which pad?

 

[HRR2b23]

Haha yeah, I know there aren't four frames. I'd definitely be able to feel it if there were. That's just what my friends say to dissuade me from using that controller.

That tech thing is actually problematic, because if I come down with an aerial and if they read me and fsmash me or something I won't be able to tech the stage if I DI down. Guess I need to see if that happens on GCC too

So, here's the thing. It WILL happen on a GC controller, but ONLY if you press the button. If you are only using the trigger (light press) to L cancel, then it won't count it as a tech. The reason for this is that a Wii classic controller has no button (is just a trigger,) and therefore cannot distinguish between a hard press and a light press. Only a hard press counts as inputting a tech, and you can L cancel with a light press. Thus, you can L cancel without inputting a tech on a GC controller just fine.

 

[Starfall11]

I meant when I play traditional 2D fighters (Marvel/SF/BlazBlue/UNIEL), I use a regular PS3 controller (pad) instead of an arcade stick.

 

[arcnormal]

Yeah, I can do all the tech. I don't JC-Upsmash much, only when I'm going for a hard read for either no tech or tech in place after an fthrow at higher percents, but I dacus fairly often. I'd definitely like to know more uses for JC Upsmash, as I find it extremely situational.

 

[Chef2]

Yeah, I can do all the tech. I don't JC-Upsmash much, only when I'm going for a hard read for either no tech or tech in place after an fthrow at higher percents, but I dacus fairly often. I'd definitely like to know more uses for JC Upsmash, as I find it extremely situational.

Although a rare situation, if someone's knocked down at the edge of a stage, doing a QD JC UpSmash will push them off then connect with the UpSmash after. It's rare because they'd have to miss the tech and you'd have to be in position to do it...

But it is hella sweet if you pull it off lol

EDIT: Also today, fellow Ike's, was our provinces monthly. I made it to losers semis and lost to a ness. His dash attack seems bigger this patch but I know it's just in my head, it was really shutting down my dash dancing.

Main thing I learned was that although wario ware is a good for ike against most chars, it is the most horrible thing vs a Falco. My first game on stream was vs a Falco and although game 1 went to last stock, I got absolutely annihilated when I "counter picked" wario ware. Never felt so helpless in all my smashing as that game

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Although a rare situation, if someone's knocked down at the edge of a stage, doing a QD JC UpSmash will push them off then connect with the UpSmash after. It's rare because they'd have to miss the tech and you'd have to be in position to do it...

But it is hella sweet if you pull it off lol

EDIT: Also today, fellow Ike's, was our provinces monthly. I made it to losers semis and lost to a ness. His dash attack seems bigger this patch but I know it's just in my head, it was really shutting down my dash dancing.

Main thing I learned was that although wario ware is a good for ike against most chars, it is the most horrible thing vs a Falco. My first game on stream was vs a Falco and although game 1 went to last stock, I got absolutely annihilated when I "counter picked" wario ware. Never felt so helpless in all my smashing as that game

> Pillars helped greatly by those WW platforms
> No room to breathe
> Falco FSmash

I would've thought it was fairly obvious :/ Well now you know.

 

[Commander]

Up smash out of quickdraw is great when reading rolls on platforms. Ike's throws set it up really well on PS2. Reading techs is the only time I go for upsmashes.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Alternately, reading a non-sweetspotted recovery when you've knocked them off, a la hitting a fair or Ftilt from center stage and nailing them with a QDJCUsmash when they get back.

 

[Deleted member]

reads are bad, don't use them

relying on your opponents to be bad like missing sweetspots isn't ideal either, but at least you can play in a way to make bad decisions look somewhat attractive so it has a little merit.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

reads are bad, don't use them

relying on your opponents to be bad like missing sweetspots isn't ideal either, but at least you can play in a way to make bad decisions look somewhat attractive so it has a little merit.

Well the USmash reverse hit actually hits below the stage, so it's a pretty good coverage tool.

 

[Deleted member]

Well the USmash reverse hit actually hits below the stage, so it's a pretty good coverage tool.

i tried hitting opponents before they grab the edge the way marth dtilt does but the startup and placement of ikes moves makes it too unreliable. imo its better to take the edge and to just continue beating the **** out if the opponents on the ledge jump conversions.

 

[Chef2]

I agree it's better to grab ledge but sometimes you just don't have time vs quick recoveries when your not in position, like vs spacies doing their side B and such.

Is our best bet to do a low angled ftilt in those situations? It hits even lower than dtilt and unless you get the dtilt meteor, ftilt has the better knockback angle. Provided dtilt doesn't pop them up for a nice fair follow up.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Low angled FTilt covers more options when properly spaced (and is not terribly difficult to space). It can even catch a half-length shorten depending on where exactly you do it from, which is sweet.

 

[Chef2]

Can you not QuickDraw the opposite direction you're dashing? Everytime I try I go into Ike's slow slippy dash turnaround.

 

[grandpappy]

Can you not QuickDraw the opposite direction you're dashing? Everytime I try I go into Ike's slow slippy dash turnaround.

You have to B-reverse the QD. That means input SideB the direction you're dashing and then quickly flick the stick the opposite direction.

 

[Chef2]

Ah thanks yeah that works. Or I guess you could CC before the QD but that takes more time so your way is best

 

[SpiderMad]

Someone go do and record this

 

[Ash_Marks]

Someone go do and record this

Holy crap.

 

[arcnormal]

Is it possible to walk-off fair and make it back on stage without grabbing ledge? Played a Marth today, did a walk off fair, barely missed and he grabbed ledge and I SD'ed.

 

[SpiderMad]

You got debug menu
http://smashboards.com/threads/what-is-debug-mode-and-how-do-i-access-it.380220/#post-18076627

 

[Starfall11]

Is it possible to walk-off fair and make it back on stage without grabbing ledge? Played a Marth today, did a walk off fair, barely missed and he grabbed ledge and I SD'ed.

I've done this a few times at my last tourney. As long as you don't FF the Fair and you don't do it way too late, yeah, you have enough time to jump/aether back to the stage.

 

[SpiderMad]

You get 1 according to the PMDT. It is unkown if there are glitches allowing for more. What were the exact inputs needed for the 3rd jump?

This was the part where you redeem yourself, you gotta tell me how many are possible with your own personal final answer rather than the PMDT's lol. The exact inputs were to just do them fast (and you got debug menu/frame advance now ;o, don't use that though until you've done a justice in attempts for in-game testing)

Everyone just believed the PMDT without question.

And so shall it continue

 

[Commander]

This was the part where you redeem yourself, you gotta tell me how many are possible with your own personal final answer rather than the PMDT's lol. The exact inputs were to just do them fast (and you got debug menu/frame advance now ;o, don't use that though until you've done a justice in attempts for in-game testing)

And so shall it continue

I have finals now and couldn't play at all over this semester. Get back to me in a few weeks.

 

[arcnormal]

/watch?v=7KRJrARRGaM&list=UUhzDYURU3nR0XHqeCKhv69A
I'd just like to share Ike's version of the Ken Combo at 4:34. Cool stuff.

 

[metroid1117]

/watch?v=7KRJrARRGaM&list=UUhzDYURU3nR0XHqeCKhv69A
I'd just like to share Ike's version of the Ken Combo at 4:34. Cool stuff.

That was pretty good but I liked this one better .