Ike Social Thread

[King of Hoboz]

The moment you can move, you do a Dash -> JC Grab as fast as you can.

 

[Chef2]

Oh dang your right, and here I've been preaching you couldn't do it. Woops. Man that timing is tighter than zss suit though.

 

[metroid1117]

Does aerial hitlag completely freeze your character, like there's no way to land cancel it? Like if I was falcon and fast falled a knee into a guy 1 frame before I hit the ground, I'd be frozen in hitlag just above the ground for the ~30 frames of hitlag?

I'm not sure about the exact amount of hitlag, but yes, this is why the timing for L-canceling is different between hitting an opponent's shield and shffl'ing in place.

 

[ZiggaWaTT]

I dont even go to the tier list thread. Too much whining even before 3.5. Might be worth the LAWLS to check it out again

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I like it because I like talking about game design as much as playing this one.

Also trashing on Fox is fun.

 

[ZiggaWaTT]

Also trashing on Fox is fun.

Cant argue with that

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Cant argue with that

Got my first chaingrab -> Bair -> QD -> Dair on Fox on FD today. All my Fox salt just vanished.

Same day I got my first QD -> Fair intercept -> QD to ledge -> Walljump -> Fair Wario trying to side-B to Smashville platform edgeguard -> Aether in time to recover.

3.5 IKE IS SO GOOD Y'ALL

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Sup guys what are your thoughts on the new Norfair? Is it a good counterpick stage for Ike?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Sup guys what are your thoughts on the new Norfair? Is it a good counterpick stage for Ike?

With those platforms? **** no.

Initial impressions leave me unimpressed. Ike can pressure regular platform heights really well but his ground -> platform conversions have never been strong past doing the Sethlon. (Waveland regrab). Sure Norfair has walls. Doesn't matter, we don't have the DJ to exploit the vertical combo/KO potential those high platforms offer and we can't normall recover that high either. Pass.

Decent Fox CP though. Harder to get shinespiked, platforms too high for Fox to tech on during CG and we ourselves could tech on them during certain platform configs to ruin Uthrow -> Uair. I feel very good about Norfair on that regard, certainly. If we find a good fourth stage for fighting Fox [GHZ - FD - Norfair] we're golden.

 

[ZiggaWaTT]

Very dependent on the MU. While i do like the freshness of having that new stage it can either feel very awkward or decent at best. Perhaps its because im not quite used to the stage yet. Platform movement can make the platforms go from ok to very weird to move around. The walls are automatically good for us but even then they are tiny and can only benefit us if we are only slightly below the ledge and the opponent can still easily edgeguard from that height. I still feel that there can be good MUs on that stage just like lordling stated with fox but for the most part I would say stay away from it in tourney until we can get more experience on that stage in friendlies.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

I didn't think of using Norfair as a Fox counterpick, that's pretty awesome actually. Will keep in mind.

 

[HRR2b23]

So I'm a 3.02 Zelda main looking to pick up Ike as a serious character now that I'm a little more uncertain about my main. Any advice on the first things I should learn how to do? I've already figured out some QD shenanigans from playing Ike casually, but not much else.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

So I'm a 3.02 Zelda main looking to pick up Ike as a serious character now that I'm a little more uncertain about my main. Any advice on the first things I should learn how to do? I've already figured out some QD shenanigans from playing Ike casually, but not much else.

Staples out of QD. Follow-ups on throws. DD game. Baiting. QD -> Wavedash and other fakeouts. Platform traps with Utilt converting into hardcore Nair juggles that can almost always lead into a good finisher if you follow DI properly (be it Uair, Fair or bair). Fthrow/Bthrow -> Kill move. This can be dash -> fair on the bad DI, but can also be DJ Uair, or QD -> Uair/Fair/Dair depending on DI and fallspeed. CG on spacies. Aether sweetspots. How to go deep offstage with Fair and make it back. Etc.

 

[Chef2]

So I'm a 3.02 Zelda main looking to pick up Ike as a serious character now that I'm a little more uncertain about my main. Any advice on the first things I should learn how to do? I've already figured out some QD shenanigans from playing Ike casually, but not much else.

Everything lordling said but make sure to learn neutral without (or very minimal) QuickDraw as certain projectile characters (samus, link, sheik, Lucas, Mario, G&W, Falco, wolf, snakes tranq dart) can really shut QD down and you'll feel helpless if you always rely on it. Ike's dash dance is fairly short but speedy, learn it's range and you can bait pretty hard coupling it with his solid Wavedash. Wavedashing and particularly wave landing feels really smooth in 3.5. A crisp wave land covers about the same distance as ganons-I'm really falling in love with wave land jab. Ike's also heavy and has a great crouch cancel game-learn to CC grab and convert.

Lordling nailed it but mentioning his grab game again as it's so good and rewarding! Although, in my opinion, takes awhile to master because ike has an option for almost any weight class, % and di. Lordling covered the specifics but another good grab tech to get down is fthrow/bthrow QD turnaround Bair (on anyone but fast fallers). It's a much faster and slightly stronger follow up than fair, offset by a much narrower hitbox. Which is where mastering momentum control out of QD can really help position ike for the Bair. Your input during the jumpsquat of QD is what controls momentum, and you can either jump straight up, backflip across the whole of fd, or anywhere in between to land that Bair.

Lastly, if you ever QD off a platform or the stage, you have to input the turnaround before leaving ground. Once your in the air your locked into that direction.

 

[Deleted member]

So I'm a 3.02 Zelda main looking to pick up Ike as a serious character now that I'm a little more uncertain about my main. Any advice on the first things I should learn how to do? I've already figured out some QD shenanigans from playing Ike casually, but not much else.

a few quick things about the character from a general standpoint-

- be okay with grabbing. a lot. ike's grab is very, very good and is perhaps the single most underused tool i see in tournament play
- like other characters, you really don't want to engage the opponent with dedicated moves. this usually means no dash attack, QD upsmash style approaches. if you're new to the character, stick to grabs and nair for your conversions until it feels more comfortable to experiment elsewhere
- QD is much better at extending ike's punishment game than anything. against better opponents it is acceptable to use it more sparingly so you don't accidentally put yourself in a bad position
-maybe this is observation bias but people tend to think that projectiles are safer than they really are against this character. it's perfectly acceptable to attack your opponent's attacks because your sword moves will win, and you will find yourself punishing things like fireballs much better than you'd initially expect
- the character has a way of being a monster with momentum and incredibly bad when he loses it. even moreso than perhaps any other character, NEVER EVER attempt to engage an opponent from positional disadvantage. this is just good advice in general, but playing 3.02 zelda has a way of teaching players that you can just disrespect mediocre punishments with things like nayru's. most characters just don't play that way and that won't fly with ike at all
- ike's shield grab and crouch game tend to be limited. due to the above for shield options you generally want to stick to WD OOS away until you can reset to neutral. i would not advocate using any attack out of shield, since good play in this game means that shields are still generally going to be positional disadvantage even when you successfully block something. for crouch, stick to crouch grab, or simply use the extra frames of motion to once again reset to neutral. always be looking to reset the position of the match to neutral if they might "have" you in any way.

 

[HRR2b23]

Thanks for the responses guys, I'll have to start putting in work on that stuff the. CC grab is something I hardly have ever used since nearly everybody I play is pretty light, but I definitely see how Ike could benefit from it. Also I completely agree with Umbreon on a lot of 3.02 Zeldas just hitting the panic button with Nayru's, but thankfully (for general play benefits) I never really did that too much. As far as Ike's throws go, is there one in particular that stands out, or are they all fairly dependent on DI?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Thanks for the responses guys, I'll have to start putting in work on that stuff the. CC grab is something I hardly have ever used since nearly everybody I play is pretty light, but I definitely see how Ike could benefit from it. Also I completely agree with Umbreon on a lot of 3.02 Zeldas just hitting the panic button with Nayru's, but thankfully (for general play benefits) I never really did that too much. As far as Ike's throws go, is there one in particular that stands out, or are they all fairly dependent on DI?

Fthrow is the fastest and thus hardest to react to, but like Metroid said most opponents can hold Down + Away for Fthrow and then react to Ike's other, slower throws. Fthrow is the best for catching them unawares though.

Edit: That's at kill percent, I will mention that Uthrow is gdlike and is of course best option for starting juggles before Umbreon yells at me.

 

[grandpappy]

And DThrow can be used as a tricky DI mixup with the other two. If they DI wrong, you can get a BAir or DACUS at higher percents on some chars. I don't really ever use BThrow though unless I'm standing with my back to the edge and want them off the stage.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

And DThrow can be used as a tricky DI mixup with the other two. If they DI wrong, you can get a BAir or DACUS at higher percents on some chars. I don't really ever use BThrow though unless I'm standing with my back to the edge and want them off the stage.

Bthrow at the edge is really good though.

Good DI (No follow-up) = Edgeguard position

Bad DI (Follow-up) = Fair

 

[Deleted member]

you know despite not really knowing **** about this character i kinda want to play him just because everything about the him is cool, and this particular character board is cool

 

[Chef2]

you know despite not really knowing **** about this character i kinda want to play him just because everything about the him is cool, and this particular character board is cool

I think your too humble. For not knowing anything you pretty well wrote the best "how to ike post" I've seen, and were on page 24 of this thread.

Put what you said into practice and come fight for your friends

 

[Deleted member]

i guess i didn't notice it then

is there a skype group?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

i guess i didn't notice it then

is there a skype group?

Kinda sorta not really. We could totally start one. 3.5 is a great time to optimize Ike's game without the top tiers feeling like ... well we can't pressure or really do much, we lose.

 

[grandpappy]

I'd be down to join a Skype group

 

[Deleted member]

i mean

together, we ride

i need metroid's blessing

my skype handle is umbreonmow

 

[King of Hoboz]

Oh! Skype Group. I was handling one, but it never got off the ground. I can try to invite you all to that group if you want. Let me hook you up with the goods.

 

[ZiggaWaTT]

As someone who wants to start going to tournaments more often, im down for a skype group

 

[metroid1117]

i mean

together, we ride

i need metroid's blessing

my skype handle is umbreonmow

I hereby dub you an Ike main. Go out and fight for your friends.

 

[Starfall11]

Hahaha, for some reason this thread unfollowed me, but I love it. Ike mains fight for their friends, you can also pick up your controller in front of your face and start groaning. Or like another member suggested, throw it down on a pillow after your win and cross those arms!

Ike is amazingly fun to play, and is pretty rewarding when you get good. I use JC Grabs a lot out of QD, probably more than I should. And I'm also working on the RAR Bairs since they're so rewarding when you land them.

 

[Chef2]

throw it down on a pillow after your win and cross those arms.

throw it down on your opponent, with the 3.5 update, it spikes now. If the salt % meter is over 300 and it's a low ceiling venue, you can even meteor bounce them through the roof for a star KO.

 

[Starfall11]

Hahaha. That would be epic.

 

[RomanCenturionX]

throw it down on your opponent, with the 3.5 update, it spikes now. If the salt % meter is over 300 and it's a low ceiling venue, you can even meteor bounce them through the roof for a star KO.

They haven't prepared themselves for 3.5 Ike

 

[Saaab]

I haven't really read into patch notes or anything, but Ike just FEELS smoother and faster than me. Maybe this is just because of the overall engine change? I'm not sure.

I'm still loving him and Roy though, and I'm very glad that my mains didn't really get nerfed. :D

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

I'm loving 3.5 soooo much. It just feels so much more natural, y'know? I never even played Melee competitively but damn, wavelanding feels so much more intuitive and it feels like the way it should be without even having played competitive Melee.

 

[Chef2]

So here's a good chuckle for the ike mains at my expense.

Went to a weekly yesterday and made it to losers finals with a slower, less QD in neutral ike. I was against against a diddy on FD in game 5, last stock each, it's intense. We have a hyped crowd (by crowd I mean 5 guys and 2 twitch viewers) and I smacked his shield near the edge with a tipped fair. I flubbed the follow up ftilt and unleashed an fsmash. Diddy wasn't expecting it and I hit his shield, breaking it.

The crowd immediately starts chanting "1 hit kill, 1 hit kill" and I feel insanely hyped, running to center stage and begin charging my QD. I envision the godly fire slash splitting right through diddy, diddy quivering helplessly before he launches into space, ike throwing his sword into the ground and flexing and me throwing my controller into the ground and flexing.

Instead I completely miss the QD attack and zoom off the stage to my death.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Why would you

IF THEY YELL ONE HIT KILL AND THEY'RE ON THE EDGE JUST CHARGE ERUPTION TO FULL

 

[ZiggaWaTT]

I would have just fully charged the Fsmash but respect for trying for it XD

 

[Starfall11]

Yeah, you can charge Eruption too. Haha. But I admire you for the hype. If there was a monetary reward though, charge eruption next time!

I went to a tournament today. Lost my first match against a decent DK. Won my next two versus Marth and Luigi, then barely lost to a Sheik.

Damn, that Sheik matchup is rough, any advice for that one guys?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I'm good at pointing out why it sucks, not particularly good at giving advice managing the match-up

Basically, try to pressure Sheik as well as you can without actually committing to an option, because Sheik's CC game on us is really good and she ducks under our grabs. DD at a distance where she feels unsafe charging needles and force her to commit to something. Space well and only go for grabs when you know she can't crouch it; then upthrow and PUNISH. Ike juggles Sheik absurdly well. You should always grab edge when she recovers and then get up when she poofs (if she's not far enough to edgehog outright). If she appears in front of you, DSmash her off. If behind you, FTilt. If on a platform, bair really quick.

 

[Chef2]

Everything lordling said is great! You can edge guard her pretty easily. Problem is getting her off the edge. sheik really is one of Ike's poorer match ups.

Staying in a range where she doesn't want to needle while still outranging her limbs is pretty difficult, IMO. Maybe it's just me, but I find her long legs cover almost blade range of Ragnell, and that super fast, far dash attack is really annoying vs ikes short dash dance.

I've recently tried a new ike strat of working for center stage, using platform movement, wavelands, dashing and a little QD. Ike's heavy and can survive a lot from the middle, and it often makes the opponent approach you and set up punishes.

If you do get center stage control, try not getting fancy with movement and walk her back to the edge. This lets you dash away and keeps you uncommitted in case she throws out any attacks. Generally, I find if I'm at space to land a tip/bladed ftilt, I throw it out. Unless she perfect shields, she can't really punish, and you might just straight up hit her as it's pretty fast. Uthrow always with grab, fthrow sets up regrabs and fairs petty horribly. Also, sheiks fairly light, really consider her percent for uthrow->fair. You can whack her off stage uthrowing at 50% near the center of average/small stages instead of just nairing again.

Don't get too crazy working around needles either. Move up on platforms, or short hop over them. If a few poke you, oh well, keep steadily advancing on her. Full hopping over them with an aerial is just want sheik wants to get a grab or nair out of shield.