Ike Social Thread

[Starfall11]

Thanks for the input guys. It was best 2 of 3. In the first two matches I was able to keep pace with Sheik, and KOed her with my Up Smash a lot. Either DACUS, or out of QD. But usually Dacus, or when reading a roll. The last match I had a really difficult time securing that KO, and kept getting juggled by her u-tilts and aerials.

Anyways, I found that I always used U-throw into Nairs. And tried to jump a lot, then wait for opportunities to go for a Nair or Fair. I was wondering, if you fair someone's shield at max-range and L-cancel it, are you safe from being chain grabbed? From characters with shorter range grabs? I ask because I used this tactic a lot, and was able to dodge before Sheik got her grab off as long as I spaced my Fairs and L-cancelled them. I also found jab combo works once I get inside the needles range.

What are some combos/setups that work on her? Doed D-throw > F-tilt work? As it works on some of the floatier characters.

 

[King of Hoboz]

Yes, max range Fair should almost always be safe on shield. And Shiek can get hit by D-Throw > F-Tilt. I did it in some friendlies last Thursday against a Shiek.

 

[Chef2]

I was wondering, if you fair someone's shield at max-range and L-cancel it, are you safe from being chain grabbed? From characters with shorter range grabs? I ask because I used this tactic a lot, and was able to dodge before Sheik got her grab off as long as I spaced my Fairs and L-cancelled them.

I don't how exactly how hitlag is calculated in this game, but if you consider it the same as shield stun (7 frames for tipped fair), ikes stuck for 20 frames with an l-cancelled tipped fair on shield. That's also if you touch ground immediately after hitlag ends, but it should only be an additional frame or two if your fast falling.

Your opponent will have a 13 frame advantage. Not even DK can shield grab a tipped fair (some can't even grab a deeper part of the blade), so they'd have to Wavedash OoS->grab. If the opponent has the fastest jump squat(3 frames), and Wavedash has 10 frames of commitment, it would also take them 13 frames to be in front of and ready to grab you. Grabs come out around the 6th frame, so your more than safe to roll away, jab, spot dodge, whatever. Personally I throw out an ftilt after tipped fairs, it's some of Ike's only shield pressure, and long rang ftilts are virtually unpunishable for much the same reasons as fair.

As for setups, something neat I discovered recently for 0% grabs, try uthrow dsmash. Sounds weird, but she's stuck in hitstun long enough for a guarenteed dsmash, and you can get both hits to start off her stock at mid 30s. I find this is better than uthrow nair as you won't be able to follow up the nair when she's thrown at such a low percent. Below 50 but above 0, uthrow-> nair juggle then toss in a fair when you think you can smack her off stage. If you get a grab from 50-90 (or anytime you think you can smack her offstage) do uthrow fair. Once sheiks In the 100s she goes too high for a double jump fair to reach, so you can try fthrow into a QD follow up, but sheik travels far and low even with no di, it makes follow ups tough. Dthrow only gets you follow ups if she dis in and up. Your probably better to just uthrow again and try to shark a uair for a kill off the top for grabs in 100s.

Outside of throws, I don't really know what ike has on sheik other than dtilt -> aerial (dtilts hard to land plus the tip kills follow ups), meteor bounce dairs into aerials (again hard to land) and utilt can be used as an anti air and then to combo, but utilts case it's usually better and safer to jump up and nair them.

Edit: mind you if sheiks in the 100s, I'd be spacing out fairs and ftilts instead of looking for grabs

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Yes, max range Fair should almost always be safe on shield. And Shiek can get hit by D-Throw > F-Tilt. I did it in some friendlies last Thursday against a Shiek.

Setting her up for a juggle >>>> Dthrow Ftilt that forces a tech chase or reset to neutral. Upthrow, Nair, Uair, Utilt, platform chases - this is how Ike piles on the big damage.

Dthrow is a good option to swap to at higher percents, depending on DI we can get a bair or QD followup.

Also Uthrow -> Utilt is a much better option on Sheik at low percents than DSmash. Once again, negotiating neutral is hard. We don't want to negotiate neutral a lot. Press the advantage.

Raise the roof, people. New Ike mantra: Raise the roof.

 

[King of Hoboz]

Only reason I did that was cause the D-Throw > F-Tilt led to an off-stage situation for Shiek. I generally agree, though; I love Up-Throw and Up-Tilt a lot more.

 

[Taytertot]

I have a friend who plays somewhat casually and mains ike and Id like him to help him get better because since I finally got PM ive started improving faster (mostly because I practice more, have a smashboards acct. and watch tourneys) and I dont want him to get tired of playing me from our matches becoming onesided but I dont know how to play ike so I can only ever give general advice, which only goes so far so...

As someone with little knowledge of ike's gameplan in PM, what does ike's neutral look like? spaced fairs i'd assume are a big part of it but im not sure what else he should be going for in neutral.

As a second question I'm wondering what ike's general playstyle is? He doesnt seem to have fast enough moves to play the all out aggressive game and although he probably does fairly well defensively I doubt that he is merely a defensive character. Of course I could be wrong since I know very little.

(I realize that these questions change based on matchups but Im sure some of it is all-encompassing. If you want to get specific though I main roy and have, as of 3.5, started picking up ganon though I have yet to play against him with ganon.)

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Starfall11]

Thanks for all the great advice. I've been doing several of these things and picked up Ike about 30-40 days ago. So it's reassuring to find out that I'm on the same page. I didn't realize Sheik fell so fast, so I'll begin abusing my U-tilts which will help extend combos a lot.

I'll work on maintaining my pressure on her more often. I love using this character very much. Even though it's hard to use "true combos" with Ike. Some of his followups are amazing. And as someone mentioned previously. Bad DI leads to early KOS. While good DI leads to great followups.

I'll let you all know when I have more questions, mostly MUs. Thanks again.

Edit: To respond to Taytertot. I picked up Ike pretty recently, so I may not be the best resource. But my brother mains Roy, and I can rival him. His Roy is very very good as well. I would say he should focus on his QD mixups first and foremost. He should learn JC Grabs, turnaround back airs, and spacing well with Quickdraw's attacks. Have him watch some of Ally or Metroid's matches. That can help a lot.

Ike's throws are great. Uthrow for combos, mostly Nair and Fair/Utilt. Dthrow for Bair/QD, or Ftilt. Only works on high percents with Roy though. And Ike's F-throw leads to regrabs and followups. Lastly, abuse Nairs. Ike's Nair and Fair are good approach options if you avoid getting shield grabbed. And QD is his Bread and Butter.

For playstyle, Ike is one of those long range sword characters who can space well with Fair and Ftilt to avoid being punished. Once you get in with a throw or QD followup, he can rush the opponent down. All the characters I main have excellent ranged normals and strong rushdown when they get in. He can also punish really hard.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Sup guys, when juggling or just playing in general, how/when do you decide to use Uair instead of Nair? I find myself almost never using Uair with Ike and I feel like I should use the move more often.

 

[ZiggaWaTT]

I like to use Uair after an Uthrow because it is easy to hit no matter the DI and because the second hit of Uair is a good kill move if you can land it. I also like to pretend im retreating by dropping below a platform and rising back up with an Uair to catch an opponent off guard.

 

[Chef2]

Also Uthrow -> Utilt is a much better option on Sheik at low percents than DSmash. Once again, negotiating neutral is hard. We don't want to negotiate neutral a lot. Press the advantage.

Ah yeah you're right utilt can combo into itself off a grab at 0% and lead into juggles. But if sheik dis away so utilt doesn't reach, then I'd say dash->CC->dsmash for the 35%. If you dash CC utilt you'll hit with the tip and be unable to follow up.

I feel like I should be using more uair too. The only times I can think of using it is when I get a kill and nair is hella staled, I'll use uthrow into uair instead for more damage. Or to cover a platform with the lingering hitbox.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Yeah, using Uair's lingering hitbox to cover a platform is a really good tool for Ike and I do use Uair for that.

 

[Taytertot]

To respond to Taytertot. I picked up Ike pretty recently, so I may not be the best resource. But my brother mains Roy, and I can rival him. His Roy is very very good as well. I would say he should focus on his QD mixups first and foremost. He should learn JC Grabs, turnaround back airs, and spacing well with Quickdraw's attacks. Have him watch some of Ally or Metroid's matches. That can help a lot.

Ike's throws are great. Uthrow for combos, mostly Nair and Fair/Utilt. Dthrow for Bair/QD, or Ftilt. Only works on high percents with Roy though. And Ike's F-throw leads to regrabs and followups. Lastly, abuse Nairs. Ike's Nair and Fair are good approach options if you avoid getting shield grabbed. And QD is his Bread and Butter.

For playstyle, Ike is one of those long range sword characters who can space well with Fair and Ftilt to avoid being punished. Once you get in with a throw or QD followup, he can rush the opponent down. All the characters I main have excellent ranged normals and strong rushdown when they get in. He can also punish really hard.

Ah thank you. I'll try to let him know. He has yet to try other things out of QD i.e. jump aerials or jump cancelled grab. Maybe if I can get those techs down and show him itll help. Any advice on mentality? I've noticed that he plays quite aggressive and I feel that may be his downfall because that doesnt seem like ike's game but maybe its just that he doesnt mix it up enough so his aggression is just easy to read.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Although QD is wonderful and great, don't let it take over your game. This is something I and probably a lot of other Ike mains here used to do when we first learned Ike. QD is amazing, definitely. But don't spam it or you'll get punished hard. And a big one is don't overuse QD in neutral. Like someone else said somewhere in the Ike boards, QD capitalizes on openings and extends combos, but does NOT create the openings themselves.

Other than that, spam Nair.

 

[Chef2]

Ah thank you. I'll try to let him know. He has yet to try other things out of QD i.e. jump aerials or jump cancelled grab. Maybe if I can get those techs down and show him itll help. Any advice on mentality? I've noticed that he plays quite aggressive and I feel that may be his downfall because that doesnt seem like ike's game but maybe its just that he doesnt mix it up enough so his aggression is just easy to read.

I used to play a QD heavy ike in neutral. It's not the best. Some QD Wavedash baits are alright but often place you in a bad position. I watched some of DJ Nintendo's footage (he plays an amazing ike with hardly any QD in neutral) and slowed myself down. The videos are in Ike's match ups thread, lordling posted them.

Ike has good movement between a short but quick dash, wavelands and QD. Work on getting center stage.

Your sword feels a lot longer when swinging down half a stage rather than the whole thing.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

As a second question I'm wondering what ike's general playstyle is? He doesnt seem to have fast enough moves to play the all out aggressive game and although he probably does fairly well defensively I doubt that he is merely a defensive character. Of course I could be wrong since I know very little.

Wut

Ike isn't a defensive character at all.

You kind of have to have, idk, good defensive options in order to be a defensive character.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Like someone else said somewhere in the Ike boards, QD capitalizes on openings and extends combos, but does NOT create the openings themselves.

If someone said something on the Ike boards there's a p. good chance it was me

Especially if it's advice about not spamming QD in neutral. It's magical what sparser use of QD does to your game. Friend of mine could read me like a book and I ended up swagging on his Wario when I just decided to be more patient and less predictable. Well, I also picked up on his habit to try to break out of my juggles with Wario Dair. Protip: Spaced Uair is amazing for catching descending opponents with hitboxes, you can avoid getting hit as they fall into the hitbox and extend the combo for you. I wish I'd recorded my friend's face when I thanked him for Dairing into my sword, his Wario spiralling into the horizon for the Star KO.

Uair, though. Hm. Utilt is my go-to platform option most of the time, but Uair can indeed cover every option on wider plats like on BF or even PS2 if you're not right beneath it. Also during juggles Uair is great for covering ambigious drift, if you're not sure if they'll keep DI'ing away, or fade back or fastfall or what. The large hitbox above you that comes out quick and stays out for a bit is rather useful honestly, and soft Uair has better horizontal KB than Nair's more vertical trajectory, which means if you're platform-hopping as part of a juggle Uair can lead into a pretty guaranteed spaced Fair to send them offstage. You know, the kind of situation where even if they come out of hit-stun, they can't do anything about you fairing at them from a Ragnell - length away and have to mash the survival DI stick hard.

 

[Starfall11]

Okay, so I have had a few questions as an Ike main. Like many players on this forum, I have found that minimizing my QD use has helped tremendously to make me less predictable and a better player. What are some other approach options for Ike? I tend to use Nairs all day, and well spaced Fairs. Other than that I use his DD to set up throws and his jab combo. I just want to make sure I'm not missing something important.

My other question is: What is the difference between DACUS and Dashing into an U-smash? I thought someone said they were different techniques the other day. And I always thought they were the same thing.

 

[metroid1117]

Okay, so I have had a few questions as an Ike main. Like many players on this forum, I have found that minimizing my QD use has helped tremendously to make me less predictable and a better player. What are some other approach options for Ike? I tend to use Nairs all day, and well spaced Fairs. Other than that I use his DD to set up throws and his jab combo. I just want to make sure I'm not missing something important.

You can also use some platform tricks like jump -> waveland -> falling NAir on Battlefield, but that's pretty much it in terms of non-QD approaches. However, it's a pretty versatile bag of tricks when used properly.

My other question is: What is the difference between DACUS and Dashing into an U-smash? I thought someone said they were different techniques the other day. And I always thought they were the same thing.

DACUS stands for dash-attack canceled USmash, which entails USmashing during the initial animations of a dash attack; this cancels the dash attack into an USmash while maintaining the momentum from dash attack. Dashing or running USmash carries some momentum from a dash or run, but it's not nearly as much as a dash attack for some characters.

 

[Deleted member]

ike is a hilariously good defensive character in fire emblem and a hilariously bad one in smash, and vice versa

 

[MLGF]

Uh... what?
Ike doesn't have 1~2 Range for a good part of his game, until the last two chapters. That means he has a rather weak enemy phase compared to lance/axe units and relies on killing units in player phase. Sure aether is good and stuff, but Ike's not good at defense because he can't kill ranged units. Tanking/Dodging hits isn't too hard in FE's anyways, the difficulty comes from trying to beat chapters in as little turns as possible.

 

[Deleted member]

having 1 rang and poor movement with no way to negotiate terrain generally means you're stuck on defense, thats why javalin and hand axe are so good on generals. thats also why intelligent systems balances offense units with low str and why wyvern riders are always too good (haar tier)

try hector hard mode, darions hack for sacred stones, awakening lunatic plus, tell me how good it is to go in with swordmasters lol

 

[Chef2]

What are some other approach options for Ike? I tend to use Nairs all day, and well spaced Fairs.

I've been getting good mileage out of throwing out ftilt whenever the spacing is right for the tip or the end part of the blade (any space where they can't shield grab you). If you hit shield, they can't punish it unless they have a long range OoS option (bowser comes to mind) or perfect shield. It comes out in 7 frames, which is pretty impossible to react too. It's surprising how many people I smack with it. I'd avoid throwing it out if the person is dash dancing though as it's easy to whiff and punish ike on the cool down.

After watching DJ, tomahawks (empty hop approach into grab) feel risky and unusual but it's surprising how often it works. Especially if you like to approach with spaced aerials, your opponent will be conditioned to shielding/spot dodging, so an empty short hop into a grab catches them off guard quite often.

Ike's waveland feels extra smooth and far in 3.5. Waveland jabs and ftilts cover a lot of range.

 

[Starfall11]

Thank you again. I'll definitely add wavelands to my bag of tricks since it seems like that's what most players utilize efficiently. I love the empy jumps into throw setups. Used that with Falco and Shulk in Melee/Smash 4 respectively.

And Ike's waveland does feel extremely smooth in 3.5. In fact, wavelands in general feel smoother, like they're a "real" mechanic. I guess I'll work harder on differentiating my DACUS and Dash-cancelled Up Smashes. I assume Dacus is more useful for Ike because of the extra range?

You can't DACUS out of QD then, right? Only cancel it with the USmash. I tend to push Y with my index finger, then use my thumb to hit up on the c-stick. Is this incorrect?

 

[MLGF]

having 1 rang and poor movement with no way to negotiate terrain generally means you're stuck on defense, thats why javalin and hand axe are so good on generals. thats also why intelligent systems balances offense units with low str and why wyvern riders are always too good (haar tier)

try hector hard mode, darions hack for sacred stones, awakening lunatic plus, tell me how good it is to go in with swordmasters lol

...I have pretty effortlessly, and yeah, they're pretty easy TBH. Nothing too difficult to be quite frank, HHM has like, 2 chapters which are actually difficult to be quite frank and Awakening has Avatar (And you know, Awakening is bad so trying to use that as an argument is well... yeah... not helpin' ya). I'll get to the mod later, but frankly I doubt it'll be worth my time like most FE mods.

Try Thracia 776 and get back to me, kthnxbye.

And Generals are **** in almost every game, high level FE is all about how quickly you can beat chapters and those go to units with good strength and good movement (Heroes, Pallies, Fliers) and Ike fits in with the Hero line despite lacking 1~2 range. Ike's high raw stats without that hurt his enemy phase and limit what he can do in that regard. He's still a great boss killer and an amazing earlygame and a good player phase (especially thanks to rescue dumps at time...), but he's not a defensive unit.

And frankly if you're playing FE defensively in general, you're wasting turns. So there's that too. Mounts or bust bro.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Lowest turn count strats in FE stress me out too much. Not using enough units, not seeing numbers go up, abusing Jeigans usually I love mounts and going fast and I don't grind out 100 turns going at a snail's pace but LTC doesn't sit right with me. So if you tell me that I'm wasting turns on a strategy I'm just going to shrug and move on.

Generals, now, those things are atrocious. 4 move and inability to double anything in exchange for really high defense that you won't even really end up needing since Cavs can survive fine, do your job better and you'll fold to a magic unit like a wet paper crane? Too polarized, too specialized, get that weak **** out of here.

Hector is the only general-like unit I've ever tolerated and that's becuase he's goddamned Hector.

Interesting trivia: Haar tier is actually nothing compared to Shiida's dragon rider promotion in FE11. A character who is already unquestionably the best unit in the game gets all her major weaknesses mitigated and runs around the battlefield straight up nuking the most common enemy types with super effective forged prf weapon. Makes Haar look like Dorcas on an overgrown lizard.

 

[MLGF]

I mean, I play FE to relax from stuff, I've done some LTC but it's not my style and generally it's pretty hard to succeed at them without heavily emulating best runs (which is kinda meh to me). But anyone who goes faster then a snail's pace can tell that playing defensively is not at all interesting or impressive.

FE games are pretty easy once you past the understanding level TBH. No one cares if you can beat it unless you do it spectacularly.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

The only time I ever had fun doing LTC esque stuff was in Ashera's tower in Radiant Dawn, after I'd already trained my favorite units.

I mean Dheginsea in five turns hot damn that was awesome to pull off. Black Knight in 2 turns, Sephiran in like 4.

That was also when I found out that you have to kill every spirit adjacent to Sephiran in order to actually beat him because he is a cheating *******.

 

[Chef2]

I assume Dacus is more useful for Ike because of the extra range?

You can't DACUS out of QD then, right? Only cancel it with the USmash. I tend to push Y with my index finger, then use my thumb to hit up on the c-stick. Is this incorrect?

Yeah DACUS gets you more range compared to just jump canceling.

You can't DACUS out of QuickDraw cause you can't dash attack out of QuickDraw. Although if you could crouch cancel QuickDraw mmm damn welcome god tier ike.

Inputs don't really matter as long as you can do it consistently, IMO. I have my right trigger set to attack and hit Y then right trigger and up. Poteyto potahto

Edit: oops that'd be a jump cancelled up smash. I also DACUS like metroid and use left/right+ c stick down for the dash attack then use up and the trigger for the upsmash

 

[metroid1117]

Personally, I DACUS by clawing such that my right thumb inputs the dash attack (C-stick diagonally down-right) and right index finger inputs the A for USmash.

 

[Deleted member]

i played FE4 and 5 (and earthbound) way back in like 2003 on these primitive roms, i didn't think they were that bad. lunatic+ on awakening was another beast entirely.

i also found some hack for RD where all the enemies in 4F had capped stats. ashera AOEs wiped my ass.

 

[Choice Scarf]

It was weird that RD was actually my first Fire Emblem - like I had no idea who Ike was or any context but he was such a beast that I didn't care. Still fell in love with the series anyway. It also didn't help that I didn't connect the series to Marth and Roy from smash until much later lol.

Anyone here ever play the feggot edition mod of FE7? Gotta love 2-3 range archers.

 

[Taytertot]

Wut

Ike isn't a defensive character at all.

You kind of have to have, idk, good defensive options in order to be a defensive character.

Well I mean defensive in that he keeps opponents at a distance and doesnt have the fastest moveset to play like say roy or fox. But I see your point maybe careful would be a better word. Would you say that he benefits from a passive aggressive style then? In other words somewhat of an aggressive punish game while not having the tools to get in someones face constantly.

 

[MLGF]

i played FE4 and 5 (and earthbound) way back in like 2003 on these primitive roms, i didn't think they were that bad. lunatic+ on awakening was another beast entirely.

i also found some hack for RD where all the enemies in 4F had capped stats. ashera AOEs wiped my ***.

FE5 takes way more thought then Awakening because Thracia's design comes from map design while Awakening's design comes from raw stats of enemies. One of those can be trivialized, while the other takes understanding of the game.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Well I mean defensive in that he keeps opponents at a distance and doesnt have the fastest moveset to play like say roy or fox. But I see your point maybe careful would be a better word. Would you say that he benefits from a passive aggressive style then? In other words somewhat of an aggressive punish game while not having the tools to get in someones face constantly.

So

This is where I start picking my words very carefully

The thing is, Ike is a rush-down character in the same way Sheik is an offensive character. The term seems to fit the bill until you take a step back and really take a look at it. Ike does not have good defensive (OoS) options, a projectile to zone or keep people out with. He's not floaty enough to escape most combos, and while he has a large disjoint to outspace people and stuff approaches and such in that manner, he has no quick GTFO moves or a way to regain footing from disadvantage easily (like Mewtwo's tepelort, as an example.)

At the same time, Ike doesn't have very many safe approaches. Spaced fairs are hard to punish, but not impossible, and Ike gets very little off them. QD is easily stuffed in neutral by a lot of things, chief amongst them Ike's susceptibility to CC.

What this means is that Ike plays a very Falconesque, movement-heavy game to keep pressure on his opponent, staying on the enemy to make them feel threatened without committing too hard to any one action, feinting and fishing for mistakes that he can then punish and capitalize on, because once Ike gets started it's hard to get him to stop. This is where he starts looking like a heavy offensive character, with his juggles, QD shenanigans, YOLO offstage edgeguards and awesome power, but in actually he must play a very patient game because Ike tends to get punished as hard as he punishes and must be very careful about not making the wrong move. Of course his weight, stellar (in terms of distance) recovery and other attributes give him more breathing room than for example Bowser or DK, but the potential to blow up or get blown up is there.

So yeah, he's a pretty perf Marth/Falcon hybrid who plays a patient spacing and movement-heavy game. Does that answer your question?

 

[Taytertot]

Yes thats an awesome answer thank you. Im starting to understand how one plays ike. I did play ike a bit in brawl but hes not a viable character in brawl so it was mostly for fun and he didnt really have a legit gameplan at all then so other then knowing his attacks (since there pretty much the same) I had no idea what his playstyle had become. your explanation makes sense. I was trying to think about how he'd play given his options in PM and I couldn't quite point towards a general area, so it makes sense that hed be marth/falconesque.

 

[ZiggaWaTT]

So I just took Areo to last stock on his TLink in a friendly. He won of course but he said I have improved a lot since we last played about 2 or 3 weeks ago when he was just stomping me. Im very happy right now.
This improvement started when I made a conscious effort to make my play more patient instead of just going ham for no reason and getting punished for it. I am now dashdancing a lot more and practicing my spacing and I am shocked how many openings I see in my opponents when I am actually actively looking for them.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

What color is Ike's Black Knight outer cape color? Is it burgundy? Brown?

 

[Starfall11]

So I just took Areo to last stock on his TLink in a friendly. He won of course but he said I have improved a lot since we last played about 2 or 3 weeks ago when he was just stomping me. Im very happy right now.
This improvement started when I made a conscious effort to make my play more patient instead of just going ham for no reason and getting punished for it. I am now dashdancing a lot more and practicing my spacing and I am shocked how many openings I see in my opponents when I am actually actively looking for them.

This times a million. Simply playing defensively and not being on auto-pilot goes a long way for "defensive" characters. I brought my win rate up with Shulk in Smash 4 by 10% just by being more patient. The same can be said for all fighting games. And I find Ike needs to play defensively initially. But once he gets in, he won't let up. So he's "defensive" in that you need to focus on spacing and waiting for that perfect opportunity. Then he transitions to rushdown. Not so much with combos. But in continuous setups and reads which lead to a quick death for the opponent.

Finally feel I have a decent grasp of this character! Still have much to learn, but I'm getting this!

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Yes definitely. I feel like that switch to a patient game is the learning path that all Ike players do. I started playing patiently recently as well, and the openings that come when you just take a step back are glorious. Then once you start playing the patient and waiting game, you can occasionally go back to that old habit and go for the QD grab in neutral as a mixup on your opponent! I love Ike's movement!

 

[arcnormal]

Hi guys! I've been playing PM Ike for quite some time now, and can do all the requisite tech with him, i.e. QD-Wavedash, QD-Grab, etc and I can do all of the Melee fundamental tech like shield grabbing, wavelanding, l canceling, etc and use them effectively in my gameplay. My question is, currently I use a Wii Classic controller (My first smash game was Brawl)
* I can't post links yet, but it's the first google image result when you search "wii classic controller" *
and I'm wondering if it would be in my best interest to switch to a Gamecube controller. I use y to jump on the wii classic, and as you can see from the picture it's extremely close to the c-stick, making QD RAR bairs, and aerials in general, very quick and easy for me. Right now when I use a Gamecube controller I can't do half the stuff I normally do, including but not limited to wavedashing consecutively, dashdance-wavedash, RAR-bairs, etc. Thanks for the help!