Ike Social Thread

[Jolteon]

Makes edgeguarding Ike a whole lot easier.

Body-blocking with Nairs will probs be a thing now. Prepare yourselves.

*thinks about Peach main practice partner and shudders*

FWIW, due to shield ASDI's existence in 3.5 you can now do Marth-killer esque set-ups to edgeguard Ike, which I guess would count as a further hit to his recovery. I'm sure you guys will do fine, though, Ike also thrives off of globally weaker recoveries.

 

[RomanCenturionX]

FWIW, due to shield ASDI's existence in 3.5 you can now do Marth-killer esque set-ups to edgeguard Ike, which I guess would count as a further hit to his recovery.

I didn't even think of that !

But yeah great job on 3.5, I am thoroughly enjoying it. Although couldn't you guys have waited until after finals week to consume my life ?

 

[Jolteon]

I didn't even think of that !

But yeah great job on 3.5, I am thoroughly enjoying it. Although couldn't you guys have waited until after finals week to consume my life ?

I guess we can wait for a few extra weeks next time.

 

[Commander]

This is your chance to redeem yourself lol: is that your final answer?

You get 1 according to the PMDT. It is unkown if there are glitches allowing for more. What were the exact inputs needed for the 3rd jump?

 

[Chef2]

Ike seems to absolutely wreck tether recoveries now. Edge hop Bair, dair->Bair, wave land grab/dsmash. And all this is free with a 1+ second window just for grabbing ledge? Or are the people I'm playing just missing something?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Ike seems to absolutely wreck tether recoveries now. Edge hop Bair, dair->Bair, wave land grab/dsmash. And all this is free with a 1+ second window just for grabbing ledge? Or are the people I'm playing just missing something?

Nope. When I read that tethers can't be cancelled anymore, I just had to lean back a little because I couldn't believe Ivy and ZSS were now as easy to edgeguard as FALCON.

 

[MLGF]

True.

Of course this makes Metroid the one true Ike main.

Hey, hey, I was around back then!
I mean I was a bad scrub and even more annoying then I am now, but I was there!

...on wifi...

D:

 

[King of Hoboz]

I secondaried Ike around 2.5. Does that make me a real Ike? And I didn't play or even know about 2.1 Ike then.

 

[Pokechao]

Can someone here record footage of Ike's down taunt spiking someone? I want to show that to a friend whos a really big Ike fan lol.

 

[MLGF]

Well, my friend plays Zelda and these changes are driving him mad. He's considering dropping her because she's just awful now.

I think we should be a little grateful the great PMDT gods in the sky decided not to totally change the heck out of Ike, and that chances are we're going to have a little headstart on the other characters (excluding Melee top tier characters) in terms of meta because our changes were minimal (I think Wolf may also have this blessing, he's still wicked strong)

Now if you excuse me, I'm going to move up 5 spots in my states PR before they figure anything out, kthnxbye.

 

[Chef2]

I secondaried Ike around 2.5. Does that make me a real Ike? And I didn't play or even know about 2.1 Ike then.

I think it's never too late to be a real ike even if you haven't played him since 2.1. I think all the ike mains want to see a little more ike love at tourneys!

Only fake Ike's were the 2.1 Ike's who picked him after saltily losing game 1 with their main just so they could win the next two. And then smirk and say to themselves "oh yeah, I'm the man, my victory was all hard work and skill from those two friendlies I played once, not cause this char has the best spacing, rush down and shield pressure all in one". No sympathy for them.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Bruv my Ike will be so real once I'm done with school.

Will legit wear green headband to tourneys.

Carry a pillow so I can throw down GC controller and fold arms at the end of games

 

[metroid1117]

Yo @ metroid1117 where your design notes at

For the most part, the PMDT felt that Ike was in a good spot besides some of the attributes on QD. With the design philosophy of "trimming the fat" and "recovery nerfs", we tended to agree that the best way to address these things as they apply to Ike was to require more commitment to use QD. The delayed IASA frames on QD attack and removed auto-hit function requires more precision and thought to use it while reducing its utility as a "brain-dead" combo starter and the reduction in wall jumps while forcing Ike to go into the helpless state upon hitting with aerial QD attack falls in lines of recovery nerfs.

 

[Starfall11]

Seems like us Ike mains will need to use more skill with QD now. But it's pretty much just as effective. I have no problem with. Just need to get used to spacing with QD > Non-auto hit. I definitely used the auto hit more often than I should have.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Seems like us Ike mains will need to use more skill with QD now. But it's pretty much just as effective. I have no problem with. Just need to get used to spacing with QD > Non-auto hit. I definitely used the auto hit more often than I should have.

No idea what you're talking about.

After some messing around turns out Ike's combos out of QD still work, they just have new timing and don't continue into mid percents because IASA. QD Attack -> Utilt/FTilt (DI dependent) -> Nair [If Utilt selected] -> Juggle/Platform chase still works. It's just not lightning quick like before so DI can escape it.

Fair change honestly.

 

[GP&B]

Never used auto-hit. The range is connects at is suboptimal compared to manual and, despite the range nerf, QD attack is still ****ing huge.

Also, LEARN UP THEM FOOTSTOOL OPTIONS FOLKS. I'm dead serious, the lower short hop makes so many scary things possible. Tomahawk -> SH footstool -> Nair/Dair/FF Bair is gonna be the new thing to really explore because it makes Ike's pressure options even more disgusting.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Lol QD isn't huge anymore. Like we could outspace Marth with that thing earlier. I'm a bit sore on this one since few things define sword characters like their range and range nerfs are something I don't like (I'm unhappy about Mewtwo range nerfs and I ****ing hated Mewtwo.) I feel like there are other ways to ameliorate large range advantages, you know? But not actually complaining. It still does its job and does it well and is a fairer move overall for it.

And I never used auto-hit either, committing your finger to the A button when QD'ing? When using a move with that many possible mix-ups? ****ing ew.

 

[Starfall11]

No idea what you're talking about.

After some messing around turns out Ike's combos out of QD still work, they just have new timing and don't continue into mid percents because IASA. QD Attack -> Utilt/FTilt (DI dependent) -> Nair [If Utilt selected] -> Juggle/Platform chase still works. It's just not lightning quick like before so DI can escape it.

Fair change honestly.

I wasn't saying that QD followups were different or anything. I picked up Ike in the past couple months, and I was used to using the auto-hit in QD to attack and followup my throws. I was just saying I need to get used to manually inputting the attack with B. That's all I meant by more skill. Making a conscious decision to use QD attack, and deciding when to follow up versus not.

Whereas before some Ike players spammed QD attack.

 

[Chef2]

@ metroid1117 maybe you can help me with this (or anyone else) but I was wondering just how Ike's tipper hitlag reduction system works. I read your 2.5 patch notes and I get that ike has a frame advantage on tipped attacks (is this also always +3 frames no matter the attack?-I'm also assuming this refers to grounded attacks only). But I'm curious is it programmed to give tipped hits less hitlag for ike or more shield stun for the opponent?

 

[metroid1117]

@ metroid1117 maybe you can help me with this (or anyone else) but I was wondering just how Ike's tipper hitlag reduction system works. I read your 2.5 patch notes and I get that ike has a frame advantage on tipped attacks (is this also always +3 frames no matter the attack?-I'm also assuming this refers to grounded attacks only). But I'm curious is it programmed to give tipped hits less hitlag for ike or more shield stun for the opponent?

AFAIK, Ike no longer has any hitlag modifiers on his attacks, so tipped/blade/hilt hitboxes should only vary on shield stun based on the damage that they do (which is how almost all other attacks work). I could be wrong though, there's been a lot of changes since 2.5.

 

[Starfall11]

It seems like most of our combos and strings still work even though the IASA was increased by 5 frames on QD attack.

Has anyone confirmed previous strings with Ike that no longer work as a result of this 5 frame window.

 

[Jankyr]

AFAIK, Ike no longer has any hitlag modifiers on his attacks, so tipped/blade/hilt hitboxes should only vary on shield stun based on the damage that they do (which is how almost all other attacks work). I could be wrong though, there's been a lot of changes since 2.5.

I remember reading about tipped attacks having frame advantage in 2.5, and I always thought it was the case since none of the patch notes after mention anything about it.

But if there is no modifiers, hilted attacks would cause the most shield stun (more damage=more stun), but does anyone know if more damage causes more hitlag? (i.e. would the hilt give ike more cooldown than the tip)?

 

[Deleted member]

Lol QD isn't huge anymore. Like we could outspace Marth with that thing earlier. I'm a bit sore on this one since few things define sword characters like their range and range nerfs are something I don't like (I'm unhappy about Mewtwo range nerfs and I ****ing hated Mewtwo.) I feel like there are other ways to ameliorate large range advantages, you know? But not actually complaining. It still does its job and does it well and is a fairer move overall for it.

And I never used auto-hit either, committing your finger to the A button when QD'ing? When using a move with that many possible mix-ups? ****ing ew.

i didnt notice the QD change at first. it really only changed how the move interacts with shield, and i dont QD shields because thats terrible. i also never used the auto hit and didnt even know he had one until i read this thread today

imo the short version for ike this version is that his grabs are still great and and QD is still best used in limited amounts, nothing has really changed for this character, which is good (so far)

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

i didnt notice the QD change at first. it really only changed how the move interacts with shield, and i dont QD shields because thats terrible. i also never used the auto hit and didnt even know he had one until i read this thread today

imo the short version for ike this version is that his grabs are still great and and QD is still best used in limited amounts, nothing has really changed for this character, which is good (so far)

Gonna be honest, the QD change is indeed unnoticeable if you use QD how it's supposed to be used.

So um, yeah.

 

[Chef2]

I remember reading about tipped attacks having frame advantage in 2.5, and I always thought it was the case since none of the patch notes after mention anything about it.

But if there is no modifiers, hilted attacks would cause the most shield stun (more damage=more stun), but does anyone know if more damage causes more hitlag? (i.e. would the hilt give ike more cooldown than the tip)?

I'm curious about the hitlag thing too. I was watching a stream where an ike hit a low to the ground blade fair on shield and got grabbed after. But the announcer who said he mained ike mentioned "that fair was low enough for a free grab follow up if only he had hit the hilt". Have a hard time checking this in lab as shielding on the other controller with my foot isn't easy. Need some friends over to fight for

 

[Starfall11]

Are you saying if you L-cancel Fair on shield with the hilt, you can escape the shield grab?

I've seen some Ike's L-cancel Fair on shield then go for jab combo or throw. But it could have just been due to the other player's poor reaction time. Or because they didn't expect a follow-up.

 

[Chef2]

That's potentially what I'm saying although Im pretty sure I'm wrong. I've been shield grabbed lots with fair, but maybe because I've always hit high up and/or with the blade/tip.

Messing around with computers last night it seemed like if I hit a hilted fair I could grab/jab them, but that's computers. I won't be able to check for sure until some buddies come over Thursday.

EDIT: Nevermind! Found the shield stun formula and crunching a few numbers hilt fair causes about 10 frames of shield stun with a 13 frame l cancel, so definitely not safe. Hilt Bair is +1 frame (10 frames shield stun 9 frame l-cancel), but keep in mind you'd have to land the frame after the hit to get this bonus. Sorry for the false hope folks

 

[metroid1117]

EDIT: Nevermind! Found the shield stun formula and crunching a few numbers hilt fair causes about 10 frames of shield stun with a 13 frame l cancel, so definitely not safe. Hilt Bair is +1 frame (10 frames shield stun 9 frame l-cancel), but keep in mind you'd have to land the frame after the hit to get this bonus. Sorry for the false hope folks

While this is right, keep in mind that you have to factor into account the hitlag from hitting a shield - Ike will be in hitlag the same amount of time that his opponent will be in shield stun, so you'll have less frames of advantage on shield than +1 frame.

 

[Chef2]

While this is right, keep in mind that you have to factor into account the hitlag from hitting a shield - Ike will be in hitlag the same amount of time that his opponent will be in shield stun, so you'll have less frames of advantage on shield than +1 frame.

Ah right! Although I was kinda under the impression you could land cancel aerial hitlag, or am I totally out to lunch?

Does aerial hitlag completely freeze your character, like there's no way to land cancel it? Like if I was falcon and fast falled a knee into a guy 1 frame before I hit the ground, I'd be frozen in hitlag just above the ground for the ~30 frames of hitlag?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Tier list speculation pissing me off with talks of nerfing QD.

 

[NWRL]

ayyyyy lmao

 

[Tero.]

Sup people,
new to Ike since 3.5. Can we uthrow chaingrab spacies?

 

[NWRL]

Yeah he can. You're gonna need to be able to reverse QD JC grab to continue the throw past about 30ish%. Take Fox to GHZ and just LMAO @ his life

Look up metroid vs Kels for an example of said LMAOing @ Foxs life

 

[NWRL]

Also guise the Guts armor is literally the best thing they've ever added in PM.

 

[Tero.]

Also guise the Guts armor is literally the best thing they've ever added in PM.

True story. That was like the only reason why I tried out Ike in the first place. Green and Black armor look so awesome.

 

[Chef2]

Sup people,
new to Ike since 3.5. Can we uthrow chaingrab spacies?

You can't regrab from 0-~15% if they di away. No time to QD turnaround grab, dash grab doesn't go far enough in time, and can't dash JC grab either.

 

[Starfall11]

Tier list speculation pissing me off with talks of nerfing QD.

That bothers me too. I think Ike is fine where he is. He has minimal changes from 3.02 > 3.5. And I'm very happy with his neutral game and combo actions. He is solid mid-tier. Upper-Mid at best in my opinion.

 

[King of Hoboz]

What, when was that ever the case? Let me test that ****.

Edit: Tested, it's a tight link, but you can chain grab from 0% to 15%. You can't react to the DI, you have to guess at this percent and do it immediately.

 

[grandpappy]

All the salt about character changes is so funny guys. Then people talking about nerfing QD? Too good. I died. People mad Ike's one of the best designed characters in the game.

 

[Chef2]

What, when was that ever the case? Let me test that ****.

Edit: Tested, it's a tight link, but you can chain grab from 0% to 15%. You can't react to the DI, you have to guess at this percent and do it immediately.

Really? How do you do it? When I try in the lab I can't do it with dash grab, QD or anything.