Ike Social Thread

[SpiderMad]

Why didn't you test this out before?

Because I believed you and @ metroid1117 lol.
http://smashboards.com/threads/ike-social-thread.331713/page-3#post-16066964

Also seen here when I was saying it was 3
http://smashboards.com/threads/2-6-ike-thread.338801/#post-15701624

It's only recently I've been back playing the character more again with a friend and realized you could get three, I've gone DK/Diddy and others in tourney since 2.5 and just lab Ike tech to give ya'll when I think of or demonstrate something

Also if you guys want a challenge, like ML who didn't keep his word on http://smashboards.com/threads/project-m-social-thread-v3-02.339825/page-1069#post-17902713, record yourself doing Side-b SH Bair DJ Double Bair

 

[Commander]

Because I believed you and @ metroid1117 lol.
http://smashboards.com/threads/ike-social-thread.331713/page-3#post-16066964

Also seen here when I was saying it was 3
http://smashboards.com/threads/2-6-ike-thread.338801/#post-15701624

The problem here is believing things on the internet. I believed the PMDT saying it was 2.
www.youtube.com/embed/YWdD206eSv0?rel=0

 

[foxygrandpa]

I'd kind of like to see the distance of the QD slightly toned down. It feels like its kind of too easy for tech option coverage. It'd be cool if he got a slightly faster run or a small buff to dash attack or something to compensate. Idk though, I really like him as he is, but QD feels like its kind of overcentralizing sometimes.

 

[Starfall11]

I'd kind of like to see the distance of the QD slightly toned down. It feels like its kind of too easy for tech option coverage. It'd be cool if he got a slightly faster run or a small buff to dash attack or something to compensate. Idk though, I really like him as he is, but QD feels like its kind of overcentralizing sometimes.

I'd have to disagree with this. Messing too much with QD could severely nerf Ike. He's fine where he is in terms of tier placement/viability. But that's just my opinion. Maybe I'm worried too much.

 

[foxygrandpa]

I'd have to disagree with this. Messing too much with QD could severely nerf Ike. He's fine where he is in terms of tier placement/viability. But that's just my opinion. Maybe I'm worried too much.

If the current top characters weren't so ridiculous, Ike would definitely be near the top. He doesn't really have many bad matchups and he's pretty solid overall. Let's be honest, QD is kind of overcentralizing. There's not a lot of times where Ike would want to approach without the QD. Im not suggesting that he gets nerfed overall, but taking a little away from QD and adding some stuff somewhere else would be a nice change, in my opinion.

 

[Player -0]

Staying at a good distance for Fair spacing before doing QD mixups is pretty important. Also you don't have complete control over Ike during the QD.

If you roll towards Ike and he's charged QD a sufficient amount then it's pretty hard to punish with the (I think) 4 frames before he can act (he would QD backwards if he even reacted quickly enough) and by then you can put out a Nair/Bair typically vs. Ike's jab.

 

[foxygrandpa]

Staying at a good distance for Fair spacing before doing QD mixups is pretty important. Also you don't have complete control over Ike during the QD.

If you roll towards Ike and he's charged QD a sufficient amount then it's pretty hard to punish with the (I think) 4 frames before he can act (he would QD backwards if he even reacted quickly enough) and by then you can put out a Nair/Bair typically vs. Ike's jab.

I agree, theres situations where its punishable. Im saying these things as an ike main, I think he would be an overall better designed character if his reliance on QD was toned down slightly. I like where Ike is currently in terms of tiers. The main issue I have is for covering tech options. For example, throw a character backwards,charge QD in that direction. If they hit the ground and tech anywhere besides towards you, theyre going to get regrabbed or you can start a combo. It just seems kind of too easy to me. It's not so much QD as an approach option that bothers me about it, as long range attacks and projectiles do shut it down.

 

[Starfall11]

I see what you're saying. But you should try mixing up some of your approaches. Quickdraw is great. But dash dancing into throws, and controlling space with Ike's aerials can be great for covering tech options too. Watch some of Ally's top matches. There are some in battlefield where he rarely uses quickdraw. I don't think it has to be overcentralizing. Just depends on your playstyle.

 

[Saaab]

I've been performing really well in my local scene with Ike, and people seem to be really salty, saying thinks like, "Ike has an overcentralized moveset because of side-b."

It's just a really good movement option, you know? Ikes will stop quickdraw canceling when he has Marth's wavedashing and Fox's dashdance.

 

[-_Face_-]

So can somone explain to me WHY you can reverse JC grab and reverse RAR out of QD? I get being able to do some of his mixups straight ahead, but what in the engine actually lets you reverse out of the QD?

 

[Commander]

So can somone explain to me WHY you can reverse JC grab and reverse RAR out of QD? I get being able to do some of his mixups straight ahead, but what in the engine actually lets you reverse out of the QD?

You can turn around during the jumpsquat animation.

 

[Player -0]

When you jump the engine checks which direction you input and you turn before actually leaving the ground. From there you cancel the jumpsquat.

I think making the attack portion of QuickDraw not be so free for followups. Also change his throws a bit so QD can't make it so free hits every time pretty much. That or he can't QD .5 seconds after a throw

 

[Commander]

Why the **** are there people talking about Ike nerfs?

 

[Chef2]

You can turn around during the jumpsquat animation.

I'm pretty sure you have to turn around before the jumpsquat. The direction during jumpsquat controls Ike's aerial momentum if he decides to jump.

Think of your hand motions when you do QD->RAR rush bair to get the full momentum backflip. You first hold the stick in the opposite direction of travel, then slam it the other way during jumpsquat. If you fail to slam the stick the other way, ike is still facing the opposite direction, just no backflip or momentum.

 

[Moy]

Why the **** are there people talking about Ike nerfs?

Preparing for the worst, I suppose.

 

[Starfall11]

Preparing for the worst, I suppose.

I don't know. People are talking about Ike like he needs nerfs. Which definitely isn't the case. There are other characters that need balancing far before Ike. He's fine where he's at on almost every level. There's nothing cheap or overcentralizing about Ike, and he's a blast to play.

 

[MLGF]

QD chain grabs are the funnest thing, I just kept linking Forward Throws until I got a Dair offstage, best thing ever.
STILL LOST THE SET BECAUSE I'M A SCRUB

But really though, the Ike flash is real.

In more interesting news...

Well, I money matched someone who said Ike:Sheik is just free for Sheik.
So yeah, I'm just gonna write down everything on the matchup thread because it seems Sheik is popular for the Ike matchup. I mean, I think I'll win regardless... but I want to crush his spirit.

How do you crush your opponent's spirit with Ike?? Any advice? And I mean, soul crushing levels. What move should Ike never land? That's what I need to hit him with.

Yes, I play like a total ****, what's it to you?

---------

We aren't really saying Ike needs a nerf right? Someone just has some poor sense of humor right? Please god tell me no one is serious.

 

[Commander]

Fsmash. The first and last Sheik I ever played ended with a fsmash breaking their shield and an fsmash to end the set.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

FSMash or substantially charged eruption.

 

[Starfall11]

I'd say Ike's ultimate toll move is his fully charged QD instant kill. As long as you push B right as you're inside of the opponent.

I was doing some casual FFA's with a friend yesterday who barely plays Smash. He was messing around with Luigi, and got so freaked out when I landed the instant kill on him. It was pretty epic.

Other than that. F-throw into Dair is such an amazing spike. Can make people really upset when they lose a stock at 20-30% or less. Fully charged Eruption is great too if you manage to break a shield. Ike does not need nerfs/buffs. Honestly, he's fine where he's at. Pretty difficult to play at a high level, but very rewarding. Albeit, a huge risk as well.

 

[Commander]

Fthrow> dair doesn't work without bad DI.

 

[Saaab]

MLGF, gotta land that fully charged quickdraw insta-kill.

I landed it at a weekly here in winner's finals on the last stock of the last set.

Publicly disgrace the Sheik for ultimate hype and satisfaction.

 

[Starfall11]

Fthrow> dair doesn't work without bad DI.

I'm a little surprised. Even at mid/low percents? I know it's not a true combo, but more of a setup. What I tend to do is FThrow offstage into Dair. If they DI away from me, it sets up for a nice Fair gimp depending on who they main and their percent. If they DI towards me, dash attack or Ftilt might work.

Am I wrong in these assumptions, or are these solid options?

 

[metroid1117]

I'm a little surprised. Even at mid/low percents? I know it's not a true combo, but more of a setup. What I tend to do is FThrow offstage into Dair. If they DI away from me, it sets up for a nice Fair gimp depending on who they main and their percent. If they DI towards me, dash attack or Ftilt might work.

Am I wrong in these assumptions, or are these solid options?

It varies depending on the character and the % they're at, but if they're >40% then DI'ing FThrow down and away probably shouldn't combo into DAir spike (but it might combo into weak DAir). DI'ing FThrow down and away also tends to put opponents at a distance where it's difficult to land a FAir without fastfalling in the middle of it, which may result in SDs if the stage doesn't have walls to wall-jump from.

 

[Commander]

So I tried smash4(Ike particularly) today. Tomorrow I'm returning smash4.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Yep. Sm4sh Ike makes me incredibly sad. All the other slow characters got huge buffs (even Ganon!) except Ike

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Smash4 Ike is the reason I'm no longer buying the game.

 

[Commander]

I love that Bowser Jr. can jump out of his side b. It is just so funny. Bowser Jr. is a legitimately cool char, but the mechanics aren't fun.

 

[Moy]

I love that Bowser Jr. can jump out of his side b. It is just so funny. Bowser Jr. is a legitimately cool char, but the mechanics aren't fun.

My thoughts exactly. "This is kind of like PM Ike, in a sense."

Except it's not. At all.

 

[King of Hoboz]

Personally only play Sm4sh because my region doesn't have a lot of love for PM. (Diehard Brawl or Melee fans, with only one small town with a solid PM population).

Even the general FGC in Louisville has a preference to Sm4sh because it's simpler. I'll probably try to show them how to P:M regardless though.

 

[Starfall11]

I think PM is best thus far. For people saying Ike sucks in Smash 4, I agree completely. QD adds so much versatility to his moveset, and without it, he's so much more one-dimensional... You can't even dashdance in Smash 4. At least we still have DACUS.

Anyways, I main Shulk in Smash 4, and I think a lot of Ike mains may move over to him. Despite how boring Ike is to play, he's still viable from what I've heard. Placed second or first in 2-3 tourneys recently. Can't remember the name of them at the moment though.

 

[Chef2]

Does anyone else find the lower trajectory launch on the tip of Ragnell annoying? To me it's essentially a combo breaker for nairs and uairs as it knocks the opponent too far away for follow ups. It's pretty much auto combo di for the opponent. This also goes for grounded combo starters like up tilt and dtilt. I know the trade off is it makes for better gimps, but boil it down and a tipped fair isn't much better at gimping than a bladed fair. The tip angle isn't low enough to be a semi spike or anything, so the reduced knock back could even make it worse for gimping.

Come to think of it, even the hilt sweetspot seems odd for such a huge spacing tool. "Hey, you spaced that incredibly unsafely and went hella deep, luckily they didn't shield, good job, here's the highest payout." I guess it emphasizes Ike's rush down style? And makes it so each fire emblem char has their own unique sweetspot lol

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

I agree, hitting someone with the tip of Nair can be annoying when trying to combo, but I think they added the tip hitbox as a nerf because it was too easy to combo with Ike in 2.1 (I didn't play PM in 2.1 though so not sure).

 

[Chef2]

I think your right about adding it to nerf his combo game, but I think they were a little harsh. Eventually people figured out how to di his attacks, and now the tip kinda just di's for free. Hell, I even train with a DDD and in 2.1 he was making it tough to get combos with proper di.

I thought the main thing wrong with 2.1 ike was the reduced hitlag/shield stun system. I could mindlessly fair shields without worrying about spacing and get free grab follow ups. Or ftilt for more shield damage and then grab. Everything seemed positive on shield, no matter the spacing, and that, at least to me, was the main reason ike felt "overpowered".

 

[Commander]

The tip is for poking and spacing like you are Marth. The rest is combos like you are Roy. The arms are to not get screwed in a Roy zone situation. Ike is the best parts of both FE chars but he requires much more work to be amazing.

I have friends who play both Marth and Roy, and though they can switch between the two they can't play Ike at all. I go toe to toe with them in dittos.

 

[Chef2]

The tip is for poking and spacing like you are Marth. The rest is combos like you are Roy. The arms are to not get screwed in a Roy zone situation. Ike is the best parts of both FE chars but he requires much more work to be amazing.

I have friends who play both Marth and Roy, and though they can switch between the two they can't play Ike at all. I go toe to toe with them in dittos.

Eh your right Commander. Dedicating the tip to spacing does make him more of a marth/Roy hybrid than if it combo'd as nicely as the rest of his hitboxes.

Besides, I'm just saying food for thought. It's not like they'd ever remove the lower trajectory from one new guys complaints haha

 

[King of Hoboz]

@ metroid1117

Once 3.5 drops, you should totally treat the Ike boards with a talk about design choices you had to make with Ike in 3.5 (assuming there's any).

I'd totally love to hear your thoughts as a developer/play tester for PM.

 

[metroid1117]

That'd be cool. Keep in mind though, there are groups of people that help out with each character and we come to a decision together, so the product that's 3.5 Ike is a combination of our thoughts and opinions.

 

[King of Hoboz]

Best bring them along for the ride too. Oooooh well. :D

 

[Commander]

We lost a wall jump . Though if the extra wall jump bug is still around it isn't that big of an issue.