Ike Moveset Speculation/Discussion

[NineWholeGrains]

If Ike's aerials lost transcendent priority, do you think we can swat away some projectiles with our aerials now?

I certainly hope so, especially with all the DHD we're seeing early on. Nair seems like it'd be useful for pushing through.

Uair... Eh, I'm torn. It feels so good to sniff out an air dodge and get a super early kill with it, but at least this way Ike can go up and put some pressure on. I'm more concerned with how we're going to actually get kills. Bair seems to have lost a little bite. :/

 

[mimicmatter]

I have tried a little bit of Ike on the japanese version and with a little look on the video I saw I can say that the Dash Attack has slightly change. Primairly, the Dash Attack seems to have gain a lot of priority, I was doing it at Mario's Fireball and literally went through it. In the video of Ike in Glory mode, you saw it went through Larry's Cannonball around 28:00. The only thing that stop the Dash is the shield. In other mean, if the enemy is moving and try to attack, the dash seems to always have bigger priority !

 

[Ussi]

While the loss of power sucks, killing in this game is hard in general. So I'd still put Ike on the higher side in kill power.

 

[san.]

Momentum canceling was pretty BS in brawl. You had some characters surviving Ike's kill moves at 130+%. I think it'll be easier to kill on average outside of jab->utilt which was the most effective way at killing at high level outside of surprise bair (which still works just fine in this game).

 

[Blubolouis]

I got to try Ike for 1 match against a lvl3 cpu last sunday. Not a whole lot I could experiment with, sadly. I was hoping to at least get "the feel" of this new Ike, see if I could detect nuances in safety, options etc compared to brawl. Not much to say even with first hand experience, sadly. The only move that really struck me was Dtilt, it's really much faster now. First thing I tried was Ftilt, hoping it could serve as a mid range option, but right now I'm beginning to think Dtilt could probably do the trick anyway. Guess we'll find out for good when we get the actual game.

 

[Ultima777]

I was wondering if anyone here has the game, could you possibly post a video of all of Ike`s custom specials?

 

[san.]

We have everything except Counter 2 on video (video excludes Aether 2 but there's a separate video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL7HabeCjOY )
http://www.twitch.tv/ninjalink/b/570645040 - around 25:00

All custom moves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnwKsYRblwA

 

[NT 3000]

We have everything except Counter 2 on video (video excludes Aether 2 but there's a separate video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL7HabeCjOY )
http://www.twitch.tv/ninjalink/b/570645040 - around 25:00

Holy recovery batman aether 2 is nuts lol

 

[Ultima777]

We have everything except Counter 2 on video (video excludes Aether 2 but there's a separate video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL7HabeCjOY )
http://www.twitch.tv/ninjalink/b/570645040 - around 25:00

All custom moves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnwKsYRblwA

Wow that quickdraw 3 tanked a hammer. O___O It is pretty slow though.

 

[Oblivion129]

I like this match for the good reads at the end. Dtilt is definitely usable. Has anyone checked if it still spikes?

 

[BSL]

video excludes Aether 2 but there's a separate video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL7HabeCjOY

Lmfao @ #HBC | Ryker

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

You're just now seeing that, Brad?

 

[BSL]

Yeah, also recognized you immediately and lost it

 

[Deathcarter]

We have everything except Counter 2 on video (video excludes Aether 2 but there's a separate video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL7HabeCjOY )
http://www.twitch.tv/ninjalink/b/570645040 - around 25:00

All custom moves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnwKsYRblwA

Counter 2 was disappointing. I was expecting an effect more like ZSS's paralyzer shot.

Diagonal Aether however looks absolutely amazing.

 

[mimicmatter]

Counter 2 was disappointing. I was expecting an effect more like ZSS's paralyzer shot.

Diagonal Aether however looks absolutely amazing.

Yeah It's not really good when you can't connect it with anything. But then I doubt the guy who played Ike was a mainer so we will have to try it ourselves. Maybe we can find something that can connect to it. Maybe an aerial attack can connect to it !

 

[-RedX-]

Counter 2 offstage -> Dair. I'll do it eventually.

 

[san.]

Yep, if you think something has potential, don't let the people dismissing it dissuade you, even if it's us

 

[Elfire]

I've heard rumours that Ike's side B no longer leaves him helpless when used midair. Can anyone verify?

 

[Daeyrat]

I've heard rumours that Ike's side B no longer leaves him helpless when used midair. Can anyone verify?

If he hits the enemy, he's not helpless anymore. I've seen it.

 

[mimicmatter]

If he hits the enemy, he's not helpless anymore. I've seen it.

More specifically, if he slash with his sword, he is not in helpless state. That mean if he hits someone or if he tried to hit someone but the other air dodge, you will be able to do something else after. So if someone tried to block you from recovering with your sideB that won't work !

 

[Silver Forte]

Wind eruption looks really interesting. Could be killer for edgeguarding if it doesn't reset their jump or up b like FLUDD.

 

[McX]

Some questions regarding ike's physics. I'm trying to think of some nice countering type moves (especially since the current nerfs seem to limit ike to defensive play) for ike including some I've used in brawl and some that failed in brawl.

Currently existing countering type moves:
- Usmash for rolling, airdodge and spotdodge punishes due to its incredible range.
- Retreating bairs - need to confirm that bair still autocancels from a short hop
- Pivot ftilts or grabs
- Aether out-of-shield
- Dtilt to stop ledge approaches from offstage

Questions:
- Does a retreating quickdraw off the edge still allow ike to grab the edge?
- If answer to above is yes, is the lag for aethering out of quickdraw less than simply grabbing the edge and coming back onto the edge with aether after ledge dropping? (For example, if quickdraw connects from a retreating edgegrab, I can hold down to avoid grabbing the edge then aether to follow up as a combo. If such a move didn't allow ike to get back on stage normally, aether stalling is probably better)
- Can ike do a full hop fair and fastfall into an auto cancel? (A strategy I've found great for countering aerial approaches, but not to be used in excess)
- When the wii u version comes out, confirm that slowfall dairs still work?
- Do jab cancels work better on higher percentages? If so, maybe rack up some damage with guaranteed dthrow/aether combo and retreating bairs
- Does eruption hit an opponent for a meteor smash if they are hanging off the edge with no invincibility? Same thing for short hop dair

 

[ShadowsAsgard95]

I'm really disappointed with Ike's nerfed killing potential. It would be ok, if Bowser hadn't those early % killing moves :v. I mean, Ike's Fsmash is extremely nerfed (ok, it's a little bit faster, but still not enough to hit), his Uair has a faster execution, maybe combined with fastfall you can easily punish an airdodge, but has lost killing potential too, and more importantly his Bair, I've seen a Lucina surviving it at 140% (ok, the hit was blown from the left of the stage to up right the screen, but i remember it would certainly kill at those percentages, correct me if I'm wrong). As far, reliable killing moves appear to be his Utilt (like always, hoping Wario still outofgrabs in it) and Usmash, maybe with those faster rolls it will be more useful, who knows?

Also, his jab doesn't seem as reliable as before, doing 4% less damage and the final hit strugglese to connect...

Though, it feels to me like he's more mobile in the air, and the range of Ragnell looks a little bit buffed to me, I really don't know why. And also, I really appreciate his faster Dtilt, though a spike with a long hitbox like this, even if nerfed, would have been really useful with those new ledge mechanics...

Oh, and finally, you're not doomed to abyss if you input a walkoff Nair (obviously i didn't do that on purpose in the past, but when i tried to jab a shield near the edge it happened sometimes when pushed back, and I really hated that), maybe you can even do a pretty good edgeguard with it (you will send your enemies up in the air, but extra damage is still appreciate to me).

Oh, i have something important to ask: how the hell do I jab cancel in this game? ._. I really don't understand, it's always by crouching or do I miss something?

 

[NT 3000]

I'm really disappointed with Ike's nerfed killing potential. It would be ok, if Bowser hadn't those early % killing moves :v. I mean, Ike's Fsmash is extremely nerfed (ok, it's a little bit faster, but still not enough to hit), his Uair has a faster execution, maybe combined with fastfall you can easily punish an airdodge, but has lost killing potential too, and more importantly his Bair, I've seen a Lucina surviving it at 140% (ok, the hit was blown from the left of the stage to up right the screen, but i remember it would certainly kill at those percentages, correct me if I'm wrong). As far, reliable killing moves appear to be his Utilt (like always, hoping Wario still outofgrabs in it) and Usmash, maybe with those faster rolls it will be more useful, who knows?

Also, his jab doesn't seem as reliable as before, doing 4% less damage and the final hit strugglese to connect...

Though, it feels to me like he's more mobile in the air, and the range of Ragnell looks a little bit buffed to me, I really don't know why. And also, I really appreciate his faster Dtilt, though a spike with a long hitbox like this, even if nerfed, would have been really useful with those new ledge mechanics...

Oh, and finally, you're not doomed to abyss if you input a walkoff Nair (obviously i didn't do that on purpose in the past, but when i tried to jab a shield near the edge it happened sometimes when pushed back, and I really hated that), maybe you can even do a pretty good edgeguard with it (you will send your enemies up in the air, but extra damage is still appreciate to me).

Oh, i have something important to ask: how the hell do I jab cancel in this game? ._. I really don't understand, it's always by crouching or do I miss something?

The new jab cancel mechanic is diagonal down left or right ninjalink has a video on his YouTube about it. Honestly I am very frustrated with all of Ike's nerfes. We got a long road ahead of us boys.

 

[ShadowsAsgard95]

Oh, that's pretty... strange :/ Well, I hope I'll get used to it.

Yeah man, after seeing Bowser's buffs (though I don't think he will be a top tier, but there are relevant buffs and it can't be denied) I was expecting a good increase of Ike's speed and mobility (also considering how he is in his games), mantaining his killing power or maybe reducing it, but damn, only a little bit! I think we'll really have difficult times, considering the buffs of some characters and the power of new ones, such as Shulk, who has a better range and maybe less lag than us and, oh god, that DHD space control tools... Gosh, I really hope I'm wrong, but I see Ike going down on the tier... I hope the game is so well balance that, with the right practice, you can bypass the distance in the tier, not like it was in Brawl, where at high level there were always the same characters...

 

[NT 3000]

Oh, that's pretty... strange :/ Well, I hope I'll get used to it.

Yeah man, after seeing Bowser's buffs (though I don't think he will be a top tier, but there are relevant buffs and it can't be denied) I was expecting a good increase of Ike's speed and mobility (also considering how he is in his games), mantaining his killing power or maybe reducing it, but damn, only a little bit! I think we'll really have difficult times, considering the buffs of some characters and the power of new ones, such as Shulk, who has a better range and maybe less lag than us and, oh god, that DHD space control tools... Gosh, I really hope I'm wrong, but I see Ike going down on the tier... I hope the game is so well balance that, with the right practice, you can bypass the distance in the tier, not like it was in Brawl, where at high level there were always the same characters...

Don't worry once the game evolves I think us ike players will be making a presence and a statement at tournaments.

 

[mimicmatter]

I'm really wondering at that point how Sakurai worked with the balancing. Let's face the facts, in Brawl, any casual gamer will say that Ike is broken, that he is too strong and need to be weaker. However, when you play competitively, you start to find out that all Ike's move are slow and, even if they are strong, are easily blockable. That's what I was hoping for in the new smash : a new Ike with faster but still stronger move and some unpredictable movement. Unfortunatly, Sakurai seems to have listen to the casual gamers and nerfed him a lot, which I just don't understand why at all :,( ! I'm still gonna work on it though, I want to get the best of Ike because he is my favorite character. But if he end up competitively limited, I will be really pissed of by what Sakurai has done to my favorite character !

On a side note, that's not the only character with a sense of disappointment. Ganondorf seems to have not change at all since Brawl and knowing that he was the worst character in the game, that doesn't look good for him.

In all, let's see when the game come out and let's do our best to make it the best character ever !

 

[Xuan Wu]

Has this already been seen? Found a fairly competent Ike user in a For Glory video against a powerful Shulk user. Although the Ike lost, the character's potential looked to be decently utilized. Not much to say about this match-up right now other than two sword characters with perhaps the longest attack range in the game, especially Shulk's when his blade extends, which would make him a particularly dangerous foe to Ike. The small similarities in their movesets, including a punch-kick-slash standard attack, a N-Air that attacks from front to back, and a counter, makes this look like a fun match-up to me.

I am excited to see how this match-up as well as Ike's metagame will develop from here. ^-^

 

[san.]

Almost all characters received both nerfs and buffs. I'm not going to know until I can get attack stick back on the Wii U version.

Brawl Ike at high level mostly just used nair, bair, jabs, and grabs, with the occasional strong move such as uair against people on platforms, usmash as a spacing tool/followup, etc. Tilts were almost never move outside of a read of a short hop aerial approach where bair also worked. Ike relied on his few great moves and occasionally used one of his 6+ kill moves as the situation arose. Dthrow at very low percents and bthrow->dash attack from 25-70% helped rack up damage along with spacing and jabs. Edge slips and power shield approaches were also easy to abuse.

This Ike has his best tools from Brawl changed, while his worst moves are usable now. Aerials and tilts are faster, fair has a better hitbox directly in front and above compared to diagonally below now, utilt seems more reliable. Jabs are worse for most characters that had good jabs before. QD still seems to autocancel at certain heights, but I am not certain on this. The game is going to demand us to use almost all of his moves this time around more often, especially tilts and counter.

Edit:
Ike vs Shulk is going to be interesting. Shulk has more range, but he deals more damage close up. Ike still wants to space his aerials, but then is also dangerous up close.

 

[Oblivion129]

Has this already been seen? Found a fairly competent Ike user in a For Glory video against a powerful Shulk user. Although the Ike lost, the character's potential looked to be decently utilized. Not much say about this match-up right now other than two sword characters with perhaps the longest attack range in the game, especially Shulk's when his blade extends, which would make him a particularly dangerous foe to Ike. The small similarities in their movesets, including a punch-kick-slash standard attack, a N-Air that attacks from front to back, and a counter, makes this look like a fun match-up to me.

I am excited to see how this match-up as well as Ike's metagame will develop from here. ^-^

That match is great! You can see the Ike did great on spacing, but Shulk has better range so it was risky, but Ike racks up damage better so it's worth the risk. I think he could've used Aether as an offensive option after some grabs, not sure, though. Also, great use of counter from both players.

 

[Ceadda]

Has this already been seen? Found a fairly competent Ike user in a For Glory video against a powerful Shulk user. Although the Ike lost, the character's potential looked to be decently utilized. Not much say about this match-up other than two sword characters with perhaps the longest attack range in the game, especially Shulk's when his blade extends, which would make him a particularly dangerous foe to Ike. The small similarities in their movesets, including a punch-kick-slash standard attack, a N-Air that attacks from front to back, and a counter, makes this look like a fun match-up to me.

I am excited to see how this match-up as well as Ike's metagame will develop from here. ^-^

Dang, that was an unfortunate ending. It was a great match that shows Ike's potential, but he had that game!

The Ike player was pretty good; he played well, but he missed a couple of opportunities in that match. When he landed that Ftilt to get Shulk to 102% and then followed through with that well-timed counter on the ledge really should've been the pivotal moment in that match, but he made a bad decision to attempt to counter again resulting in Shulk's recovery when it looks like he a had chance to land a Dtilt (not sure if Dtilt spikes in this game) or just keep pressuring him on the ledge to keep the stage control and potentially take the victory. I know it's harder to see opportunities when you're the one playing, but oh well.

Great match nonetheless!

 

[mimicmatter]

Dang, that was an unfortunate ending. It was a great match that shows Ike's potential, but he had that game!

The Ike player was pretty good; he played well, but he missed a couple of opportunities in that match. When he landed that Ftilt to get Shulk to 102% and then followed through with that well-timed counter on the ledge really should've been the pivotal moment in that match, but he made a bad decision to attempt to counter again resulting in Shulk's recovery when it looks like he a had chance to land a Dtilt (not sure if Dtilt spikes in this game) or just keep pressuring him on the ledge to keep the stage control and potentially take the victory. I know it's harder to see opportunities when you're the one playing, but oh well.

Great match nonetheless!

You can clearly see from this match that Shulk has been heavily based on Ike. Although he isn't a clone at all, most of his standard attacks are reminescent of Ike. I actually liked that, because I was planning the use Shulk as a secondary characters. Being close to Ike in moveset, that will help a lot !

 

[-RedX-]

I wish Ike had Shulk's Dsmash. Lol
Fair and a non-auto canceled QD looks like it has a noticeable reduced landing lag from Brawl. Pretty good.
Dang, Dthrow to Uair looks legit.

 

[san.]

More like Ike is Shulk, Reyn, and Dunban mixed together.

 

[McX]

As both an ike main and a potential shulk user, both of these characters are looking awesome. Ike's downthrow follow up potential looks great, as we never really had dthrow follow into uair unless the opponent airdodged, but with the greater hitstun it's possible as a combo now.
Ike was screwed as soon as he continuously failed KO attempts on shulk and shulk hit rage mode with his smash monado art.

 

[NT 3000]

Has this already been seen? Found a fairly competent Ike user in a For Glory video against a powerful Shulk user. Although the Ike lost, the character's potential looked to be decently utilized. Not much to say about this match-up right now other than two sword characters with perhaps the longest attack range in the game, especially Shulk's when his blade extends, which would make him a particularly dangerous foe to Ike. The small similarities in their movesets, including a punch-kick-slash standard attack, a N-Air that attacks from front to back, and a counter, makes this look like a fun match-up to me.

I am excited to see how this match-up as well as Ike's metagame will develop from here. ^-^

QD landing lag looks a lot less! From what I saw counters knock back looks reduced too. Hopefully we get a release date on the wii U version soon because I want to refrain from importing a "new" 3ds XL from Japan. I want that C stick lol

 

[McX]

With the new hitstun changes could we possibly pull off some juggling combos with minimum lag nairs and uairs and string them into an aether or bair finish? Might rack up some decent starting damage.

 

[NineWholeGrains]

Looks like nair is gonna be a real staple in Ike's game, both from an offense and defensive side. Spacing and autocanceling it looks to be a safe move on shield, and coming down with it seems to cover a lot of options due to its range and trajectory. Mastering the autocancel and range on that is gonna be huge.

Also, I'm really liking that upsmash. People who come straight down on Ike are gonna get trashed.

 

[McX]

Also, airdodges apparently have a few frames of lag now, so they are very easily punishable by ike's usmash.

 

[gsninja]

Like san said, Ike's not the only character that received nerfs and buffs. If I were to make a guess, I'd say so far Ike hasn't gotten noticeably better or worse as far as his moveset and mechanics alone are concerned, just different. I was always a far more aerial Ike than average, so the particular buffs he got to his aerial game are gonna help me quite a bit.

With the new hitstun changes could we possibly pull off some juggling combos with minimum lag nairs and uairs and string them into an aether or bair finish? Might rack up some decent starting damage.

Possibly, especially from NAir in particular.