Ike is overrated but underpowered

[Goodstyle]

well 1st of you having no trouble against Ike's is no surprise since you main DDD and Umbreon just said that that would be Ike's counter pick.

also I'm not sure but I don't think that Ganondorf has a good short range reach. Umbreon is saying that brawls mechanics favor Ike because he has a huge reach if you space correctly you don't get grabbed even if you get shielded. Then theres attacks like Uair and Nair that last longer than an air dodge. At least thats what I think he is saying maybe im wrong lol.

edit: o yah that was something else that I wanted to point out. Empy is right you never have to use QD to recover and If you learn to DI correctly you really won't ever need to use it because I think there might be only one spot where you need to use QD to recover idk where you got that you need to use QD a lot. And is bowser really good? I thought he only had like 3 good match ups Ike has more than that.


Another thing I'd like to add I've never had trouble with links sure they can build up your damage and camp you a lot but once you get them off the stage and they need to use there up B to recover you can charge your eruption and kill them with that. that might just be because I play bad links though. lol

Ike's aerial movement is terrible so no matter how much you DI he'll eventually need to use it in a match. And yes I agree Ike players should not have link problems.

 

[Empy]

DI is the same for all characters. You're talking about air movement. Ike's air movement isn't the highest in the game, but not too bad either. It's at least good enough to not need QD, like I stated. Stop ignoring it and claiming otherwise.

 

[Goodstyle]

I know but you guys ignore the fact Ike will need to use the QD and Ike will eventually die from the fact that it is a bad recovery DI or not. Aether is just too situational. Read my last posts on pg 8 to see more.

 

[Kirk]

How many times do we have to say it? You don't need to use QD to recover.

I've said this before but I'll say it again:

If you have enough space to be able to make it back to the stage with QD, you are more than able to recover with Aether by moving towards and under the stage and Aethering back up.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Well what I ment by learning to DI correctly was so that you get sent upwards by attacks that would normally send you horizontally then you could just fall back towards the stage.

also if Ike is put in this position where O is the ledge and X is Ike. If you learn to DI you can avoid this. ( but I still haven't at least not all the time lol)

O-------X

even if this where to happen Ike would be able to recover with aether if he still has his 2nd jump maybe even with out it I'm not entirely sure. In order for QD to save him from there he would have had to charged it by now and in that time he could have been falling towards the stage instead of just falling strait down while he charges QD.

 

[Kodachrome]

Goodstyle, you're completely ignoring the fact that only a stupid Ike (or any player) uses his second jump more than necessary while fighting. If you're careful about it, you'll never have to use quickdraw. Ever. Good di+smash di+fighting smart=no quickdraw. I do use it to recover if I'm knocked to the opposite side of the stage, though, intentionally sliding instead of grabbing the ledge, or just to mix it up and get back on the stage if they're going for the ledge hog immediately. Nothing like reversing positions quickly to change the game suddenly.

 

[Deleted member]

goodstyle you are terrible at arguments in every way.

No blanket statement, assumptions, strawman arguments, and let's try again.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I know but you guys ignore the fact Ike will need to use the QD and Ike will eventually die from the fact that it is a bad recovery DI or not. Aether is just too situational. Read my last posts on pg 8 to see more.

Goodstyle, you have no idea what the **** you are talking about.

His DI is not going to get him killed, **** off.

No one uses QD to recover, **** off.

You're a moron, so **** off.

In short, I'm kinda asking you to **** OFF.

 

[Kodachrome]

I lol'd a bit at the situational aether.

Situational, like, whenEVER you're going back to the stage? xD

You know, this is kinda nice. People are actually starting to post semi-often here, and they're not just noobz. I lurked on smashboards for quite some time without a membership, but never really saw the Ike boards perk up. Whether it's constructive or not, all this arguing leads to identification of key flaws and sparks thought on ways around them. Once we've identified a problem, instead of ****ing about it forever, why don't we think of ways to combat them? Kirk, Empy, Falconv1.0 and some of the others who have started posting here seem to know their stuff. If you know the matchups well, you know what your opponent will try to do (that's what the "expect the expected" guy was saying, albeit he WAS a moron.) For goodness' sake, it's not like you're HELPLESS. With some new life, why don't we try to get this show on the road? <_< Other characters have some incredibly detailed threads, but I suppose it IS asking a lot of so few members to contribute so much...

Especially on a character with such a shallow technical aspect in their metagame...x(

/rant.

 

[forky]

Also, can i just point out the small fact that only one character can properly gimp Aether.
Only MK can hook onto the ledge in the moments gap between the sword stopping to spin and Ike landing, sonic is the only other one capable of it, but since he's actually airborne for a little longer than meta knight when latching onto the side from the stage, if you throw your aether away from the stage (as you should every single time you use it) you will catch them in it.

If not, you can definitely throw your sword past the edge (most stages) and although this will usually result in some form of punishment, at least you don't get gimped while recovering (you may get forwardsmashed shortly after though if you have a decent opponent)

QD is as easy as sin to guard though, so it's best to avoid it unless you have awesome mindgames with it and know how to change it's release, or even reverse it as you land and Fsmash backwards (if you go over your opponent)

Just sayin ..

 

[Falconv1.0]

I lol'd a bit at the situational aether.

Situational, like, whenEVER you're going back to the stage? xD

You know, this is kinda nice. People are actually starting to post semi-often here, and they're not just noobz. I lurked on smashboards for quite some time without a membership, but never really saw the Ike boards perk up. Whether it's constructive or not, all this arguing leads to identification of key flaws and sparks thought on ways around them. Once we've identified a problem, instead of ****ing about it forever, why don't we think of ways to combat them? Kirk, Empy, Falconv1.0 and some of the others who have started posting here seem to know their stuff. If you know the matchups well, you know what your opponent will try to do (that's what the "expect the expected" guy was saying, albeit he WAS a moron.) For goodness' sake, it's not like you're HELPLESS. With some new life, why don't we try to get this show on the road? <_< Other characters have some incredibly detailed threads, but I suppose it IS asking a lot of so few members to contribute so much...

Especially on a character with such a shallow technical aspect in their metagame...x(

/rant.

Eh, well basically, I'm the best Ike in the CA, at least to my knowledge, and that's really it.

Rok<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Me<Kirk/Silven.

I know my shiz, they seem to know it a bit better.

Kirk refuses to Brawl with me, so I'm emo. T_T

 

[Deleted member]

you have ken to compete with.

I have no proof, but I'm almost a carbon copy of silven. I don't know if that's a good thing or not, but yeah.

 

[Goodstyle]

Geez... I guess I'm sorry... The QD argument is stupid. I actually tried Ike today and I realized you just need aether. I guess it was because I haven't really played a good Ike that I started this argument. Don't get me wrong I still think Ike is low tier, but not because of his recovery. He's better than I thought though. No offense but you guys completely ignored my other points that disagree with Umbreon's interpretation on the brawls meta game. Someone has to agree with me on something.

 

[Goodstyle]

I lol'd a bit at the situational aether.

Situational, like, whenEVER you're going back to the stage? xD

You know, this is kinda nice. People are actually starting to post semi-often here, and they're not just noobz. I lurked on smashboards for quite some time without a membership, but never really saw the Ike boards perk up. Whether it's constructive or not, all this arguing leads to identification of key flaws and sparks thought on ways around them. Once we've identified a problem, instead of ****ing about it forever, why don't we think of ways to combat them? Kirk, Empy, Falconv1.0 and some of the others who have started posting here seem to know their stuff. If you know the matchups well, you know what your opponent will try to do (that's what the "expect the expected" guy was saying, albeit he WAS a moron.) For goodness' sake, it's not like you're HELPLESS. With some new life, why don't we try to get this show on the road? <_< Other characters have some incredibly detailed threads, but I suppose it IS asking a lot of so few members to contribute so much...

Especially on a character with such a shallow technical aspect in their metagame...x(

/rant.

The peach boards should learn from this.
Good point.

 

[mysticwolf]

actually, Ike's forward smash can go through shields.

 

[Empy]

Eh, well basically, I'm the best Ike in the CA, at least to my knowledge, and that's really it.

Rok<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Me<Kirk/Silven.

I know my shiz, they seem to know it a bit better.

Kirk refuses to Brawl with me, so I'm emo. T_T

Last time I checked Kirk was fine with playing online. Once I get my router to let my LAN-adapter through without checking it (so not just having the port open but just ignoring it) I think I'll be able to play online a bit. I still think it's bad for your overall game though, it's just different and different is always bad.

you have ken to compete with.

I have no proof, but I'm almost a carbon copy of silven. I don't know if that's a good thing or not, but yeah.

Actually, you do have some prove. Your posts in this topic have been the ones I agree with most and have the best constructive build-up. Also, you have the Melee experience to see which matches matter in telling whether you are good or not and which matches do not.

Vids don't say everything, imo.

Edit; it sure is getting late, I thought the no-proof thing was referring to your level of skill, not to how you and Silven play alike.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd say that's good, silven has proven to be a good player so far.

 

[JonBeBonanza]

What pisses me off about Ike players, is when they SPAM the A combo, I'm opposed to the A combo my self, but spamming it is just to much. Ike has so much potential, people who think he is to slow obviously haven't found that glass slipper yet. His attacks have crazy range and strength. I don't know what this thread in particular is about, but i'll get on to reading it, just had to get this off my chest.

 

[forky]

Er, vs most characters Ike's only spacing move is Jab... Perhaps This is why you see it used to much? ...

 

[JonBeBonanza]

Er, vs most characters Ike's only spacing move is Jab... Perhaps This is why you see it used to much? ...

I beg to strongly differ? Which characters would you consider, that need this spacing?

You could always approach with a RAR, or a personal fave DJFF-Fair, that has considerable range. Don't get me wrong i do use the 2/3 parts of the A combo, the first to jabs then a grab, or d-tilt, up-tilt. I just find using the A combo completely, and consistently, to cloak the o so many various approaches Ike has to offer. But hey that's just me.

 

[Kodachrome]

So many approaches, eh?

<_<

>_>

A is good against anybody who tries to crowd you. If you crowd someone, expect to get jabbed and grabbed to death. It's Ike's only quick "gtfo offa me, betch" move besides bair, which I use extensively against crowders both in front and back. Standstill RAR, for the win.

 

[JonBeBonanza]

So many approaches, eh?

<_<

>_>

A is good against anybody who tries to crowd you. If you crowd someone, expect to get jabbed and grabbed to death. It's Ike's only quick "gtfo offa me, betch" move besides bair, which I use extensively against crowders both in front and back. Standstill RAR, for the win.

I've done fine playing the way i have without the A combo, and i agree standstill RAR is ****.. but other that those i mentioned we're talking about Ike... it's not like he's G&W, or Kirby. But I have my play style and you have yours, hell... we must be snowflakes.

 

[forky]

I beg to strongly differ? Which characters would you consider, that need this spacing?

You could always approach with a RAR, or a personal fave DJFF-Fair, that has considerable range. Don't get me wrong i do use the 2/3 parts of the A combo, the first to jabs then a grab, or d-tilt, up-tilt. I just find using the A combo completely, and consistently, to cloak the o so many various approaches Ike has to offer. But hey that's just me.

Umm...

This has nothing to do with snowflakes, Ike has no other quick, close range moves to push someone a bit away ... What i said had nothing to do with approaching .. Why would you approach with a jab..... It's a spacing move ... the only one Ike has ... as i said.

I wasn't arguing that it was a good approach.... or even speaking about approaching .. i was speaking about spacing, which Ike can't create when someone is right in his face.

Koda: You can't jab MK (both his Dtilt and Dsmash are faster, and have longer range than the first 2 parts of Ike's jab, and while MK is crouching our Jab goes over his head, so it's a recipe for disaster.

 

[JonBeBonanza]

Umm...

This has nothing to do with snowflakes, Ike has no other quick, close range moves to push someone a bit away ... What i said had nothing to do with approaching .. Why would you approach with a jab..... It's a spacing move ... the only one Ike has ... as i said.

I wasn't arguing that it was a good approach.... or even speaking about approaching .. i was speaking about spacing, which Ike can't create when someone is right in his face.

Wow now i feel like an ***.

By snowflakes i meant that... they're different and so are our play styles. And i agree with you in saying it as a spacing move, but in my defense i said i hate it being spammed, just like that of snakes A combo, spam is never good... and me personally will rarely use it, if not mixed with a down, or up tilt.

 

[forky]

Wow now i feel like an ***.

By snowflakes i meant that... they're different and so are our play styles. And i agree with you in saying it as a spacing move, but in my defense i said i hate it being spammed, just like that of snakes A combo, spam is never good... and me personally will rarely use it, if not mixed with a down, or up tilt.

whoa now don't feel bad, i know what you meant by snowflakes, it's a reference to fight club ><

Spamming jab does not work, as diminishing returns > Ike (he suffers from it really badly due to his low move choice per situation) - Also, consider yourself lucky the snakes you play use A combos, and don't spam nades... Which is the far worse of the two.

But really, obviously noone can tell you how to play, we all play our own way, but yeah... Ike has to jab quite regurarily to avoid getting overwhelmed by some characters, but yeah you are right in that spamming it is a bad idea, not because of "gay" but because of DR. It's a bad way to play Ike, if you spam it, it means you are creating space but are not capitalizing, which in turn means you fail.

 

[Rykoshet]

Ike's jab is a staple. For a character loaded to the brimn with slow, sweeping moves, a straight pointed quick move with priority that sets up

Grabs
Tilts
Smashes
Aerials
Spikes

Is pretty much something you should always be using, and using like there;s no tomorrow. Complaining about ike's jab is like complaining about marths who use fair, it's silly.

 

[Samuelson]

i mained Ike the first day this game came out and then the next day i realized how n00by of a character he is so i stopped using him...i completely 100% agree with this post, bravo sir, bravo

 

[forky]

i mained Ike the first day this game came out and then the next day i realized how n00by of a character he is so i stopped using him...i completely 100% agree with this post, bravo sir, bravo

You simply fail. If you care to elaborate your point, i am happy to discuss it. If you are going with "ikes a noobie" ... and write like a mentally handicapped ****** (i have no quarrels with the ****** people) but yeah ... If you want a discussion about it, BRING IT ON SON

 

[JonBeBonanza]

Spamming marth's fair in comparison to Ike's A combo is apples and oranges. One can typically kill faster than the other. I just say that out of MY own opinion i do not like the A combo, and RARELY resort to it. I understand what you're trying to say, and it makes sense... but me personally, for whatever reason, dislike it in this case, and in most other every case. I just played a friend about 10 minutes ago using NOTHING more than Ike's standard combo and a few "hyphen" smashes, and won the match... i felt DISGUSTED. And i'm not complaining about Ike's move, I'm complaining on the spammage (is that a word) of it.

 

[forky]

I mean no offense Jon, but you should be more disgusted your friend loses to that. ....

 

[Samuelson]

You simply fail. If you care to elaborate your point, i am happy to discuss it. If you are going with "ikes a noobie" ... and write like a mentally handicapped ****** (i have no quarrels with the ****** people) but yeah ... If you want a discussion about it, BRING IT ON SON

alright thanks for that...

i agree with everything this post says, predictable killing moves, bad recovery, bad grab game, bad chase game, no combos...this is why i think ike is nooby

i also think he is nooby because he is the chacacter that all inexperienced players flock to, dont get me wrong i know there are people that get really with ike but for the most part it's inexperienced kids that play him

sorry if i pissed you off man and im sorry if i wrote it like a "mentally handicapped ******"

 

[JonBeBonanza]

I mean no offense Jon, but you should be more disgusted your friend loses to that. ....

None taken.

I was disgusted for one reason or another. It's not like he sucks, he probably has one of the best falco's here in Texas, too bad he was playing marth . It's not like i 3 stocked him, but to say that you won a match using no more than 2 or 3 moves is sad by all means.



P.S.

After reading the above post i realized that this is a semi-hate Ike thread. And by no means do i hate Ike, and i actually disagree with what this thread says, but again let me cry like a little ***** and say i hate SPAM.

 

[forky]

None taken.

I was disgusted for one reason or another. It's not like he sucks, he probably has one of the best falco's here in Texas, too bad he was playing marth . It's not like i 3 stocked him, but to say that you won a match using no more than 2 or 3 moves is sad by all means.



P.S.

After reading the above post i realized that this is a semi-hate Ike thread. And by no means do i hate Ike, and i actually disagree with what this thread says, but again let me cry like a little ***** and say i hate SPAM.

Once again no offense intended, and i do not mean to devalue the skill of this falco player, but falco is the better character in Brawl to Marth .... not only that, if you were using 3 moves, those three would have been doing fairly low overall damage after a while, and become so predictable that he either must be 3/4 asleep not to be able to pick up on it.

You can't win against someone who is skilled by being predictable, well placed moves & appropriate moves for the situation is what Ike is about, Marth is a different character more orientated towards pressure, Ike is about punishing.

alright thanks for that...

i agree with everything this post says, predictable killing moves, bad recovery, bad grab game, bad chase game, no combos...this is why i think ike is nooby

i also think he is nooby because he is the chacacter that all inexperienced players flock to, dont get me wrong i know there are people that get really with ike but for the most part it's inexperienced kids that play him

sorry if i pissed you off man and im sorry if i wrote it like a "mentally handicapped ******"

No, you didn't offend me, but you did fail slightly with your grammar, spelling, and all that stuff which is why i put you in the same classification as a failed ******.

See, here's the thing about your opinion, it's wrong, because Ike recovery is quite good if you know how to recover. Any attack he has bar jab can kill, and therefore it's VERY unpredictable..... since a bad hit from any of his moves will send you flying, and ultra-fast or not ultra-fast, a good player knows how to mix up moves and keep the opponent guessing, so it;'s not "all that predictable" possible where you play at with spamming FSmash and praying, but yeah ... Not tournament level Ike players anyway.

No combos? Christ ... even watch Silven's video .. he does plenty .... I do plenty ... i don't know what you are talking about with that one ... any character can combo if you understand weight, and the nature of the moves you use, for instance, Ike's Nair has a part of the sword which sets up into Bair on some mid-weight chars. This is classified as a combo.

Noobs flock to him because most people do not play competitively, and Fsmashing in a insane 4 way ****fest is fun. However, these boards are definately targetting competitive players (FOR THE MOST PART) so even that point gets sort of washed away.

Don't start saying things about characters if you don't know them ... Because Ike is a slow, lumbering donkey at your level of play, doesn't mean he is at higher levels in more expierienced hands.

 

[Samuelson]

No, you didn't offend me, but you did fail slightly with your grammar, spelling, and all that stuff which is why i put you in the same classification as a failed ******.

See, here's the thing about your opinion, it's wrong, because Ike recovery is quite good if you know how to recover. Any attack he has bar jab can kill, and therefore it's VERY unpredictable..... since a bad hit from any of his moves will send you flying, and ultra-fast or not ultra-fast, a good player knows how to mix up moves and keep the opponent guessing, so it;'s not "all that predictable" possible where you play at with spamming FSmash and praying, but yeah ... Not tournament level Ike players anyway.

No combos? Christ ... even watch Silven's video .. he does plenty .... I do plenty ... i don't know what you are talking about with that one ... any character can combo if you understand weight, and the nature of the moves you use, for instance, Ike's Nair has a part of the sword which sets up into Bair on some mid-weight chars. This is classified as a combo.

Noobs flock to him because most people do not play competitively, and Fsmashing in a insane 4 way ****fest is fun. However, these boards are definately targetting competitive players (FOR THE MOST PART) so even that point gets sort of washed away.

Don't start saying things about characters if you don't know them ... Because Ike is a slow, lumbering donkey at your level of play, doesn't mean he is at higher levels in more expierienced hands.

well i guess we can agree to disagree, i havn't seen any amazing ikes, i have watched Silvens video and there are combos but nothing to insane, nothing jaw dropping to me (watch the ZSS combo video by Claw)

ike is just not my style at all, i do like how he fights for his friends though

also...i do know ike, i know how to use him to a certain extent, he's just too big and slow for my taste and personally i dont think he has a great recovery move but i dont really care about recovery moves that much (ZSS is one of my mains)

 

[Roller]

Wait...People actually use ike?

lol j/k

 

[globiumz]

Personally, I think Ike is one of the cooler sword users. I kinda have to question his existance though. D3 has a pretty darn good recovery, just as good range and killing power, and an annoying projectile that may suddenly become a doo or gordo.

But honestly, D3 is a fat penguin. Ike uses a big handed sword to beat people up with. Ike is definitely cooler.

For the sake of memories I'm editing this post. I might also use it as a source of information to prove my claims to people at a latter point. The thing is, I recently gotten interested in a certain field which a certain organization I once read about in a book is heavily invested in. Yes! I have been interested in this since early September. Too bad I didn't think of saving this earlier in september, but that opportunity has passed unfortunately.