Ignore.

[Throwback]

delfino can really backfire, particularly on the rooftops where samus can get trapped on the left-hand platform.

I have lots of fun on frigate though, the low center on one rotation and the constant changing of the stage tends to put samus in a good position more often than not. Having said that, I wouldn't take it against any character I wasn't very familiar with.

The stage I am really doing badly on is brinstar, the uneven territory really hurts, the raised part stops you zairing to return from the left-hand ledge, the lava stops you camping ledges and you can't spam missiles either - oh and you can't get dair kills for most of the game. Terrible terrible samus stage imo.

 

[IsmaR]

delfino can really backfire, particularly on the rooftops where samus can get trapped on the left-hand platform.

I have lots of fun on frigate though, the low center on one rotation and the constant changing of the stage tends to put samus in a good position more often than not. Having said that, I wouldn't take it against any character I wasn't very familiar with.

The stage I am really doing badly on is brinstar, the uneven territory really hurts, the raised part stops you zairing to return from the left-hand ledge, the lava stops you camping ledges and you can't spam missiles either - oh and you can't get dair kills for most of the game. Terrible terrible samus stage imo.

The stage I am really doing badly on is brinstar, the uneven territory really hurts, the raised part stops you zairing to return from the left-hand ledge, the lava stops you camping ledges and you can't spam missiles either - oh and you can't get dair kills for most of the game. Terrible terrible samus stage imo.

Terrible terrible samus stage imo.

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You are unenlightened. I would elaborate, but my back is killing me and my hand is cramping. Perhaps at a later time.

 

[Throwback]

I would very much like to hear how brinstar is not terrible, if you get the opportunity.

 

[Xyro77]

I would very much like to hear how brinstar is not terrible, if you get the opportunity.

Using fair from the ledge or just simply throw the stretchy thingies gives it an extended hit box. You can KO early and can spam alot while the acid is raised and you and the foe are separated.

 

[Throwback]

everyone gets an extended hitbox, not just samus. Ledge-game dies due to lava & raised center. spam with high lava is good I agree but for me the rest of the stage is negative. I'll work on it I guess.

 

[IsmaR]

everyone gets an extended hitbox, not just samus. Ledge-game dies due to lava & raised center. spam with high lava is good I agree but for me the rest of the stage is negative. I'll work on it I guess.

For starters, poor argument right off the bat. Everyone gets an extended hitbox doesn't mean everyone is good on the stage. On top of that, few characters can abuse this as well as Samus does. Considering she has 3 pretty good multi-hit moves(1 crappy one that you shouldn't use often anyway), best Z-air ever, and a great air game for maneuvering near the sides and even under the stage. U-air underneath the center to refresh moves, poke your opponent's shield, break the stage apart(her ability to manipulate this stage so well is what makes it great for her, IMO), time them/keep them from approaching, etc. Same can work with F-air, as Xyro said.

Ledge game is amplified, not dead. The acid doesn't bother Samus much, especially compared to others, she can get the hell out of the immediate area with Z-air fairly quick, and she can abuse the acid in her favor to sexy results. A raised center hurts how, exactly? Break the stage and keep them on one side, not near the middle the whole time. On top of that, you shouldn't be trying tactics you normally would(Z-air through the stage, missiles going through the stage, etc.) here that much, and you certainly shouldn't be relying on them THAT much in the first place. You can stall out the acid with bomb jumping, Z-air/retethering, and her natural floatiness.

Lastly, the stage in general is good for her for many reasons. Platform above the center is the perfect distance for Up B(OoS preferably), making it not only effective for racking up damage/escaping from certain situations, but also good for keeping anybody trying to stay above you on their toes and eating shields. Breaking the stage apart constantly(use moves you never use, bombs, lure your opponent into hitting them, etc.) remedies the hindrance on your projectiles/Z-air. The raised platforms also let you get around like nothing, and are hella good at stopping enemies coming from above. To top this off, you can abuse moves that hit that high/from far away. Samus literally personifies the "floats like a butterfly, sting like bee" mindset. Lay traps, get them to follow you, and so on. To conclude, the messed up blast zones somewhat make up for Samus' lack of killing power. I've gotten kills from even supposedly weak moves like Up B(lolStarKO) and F-tilt near the side of the stage. Mix this with abusing the acid, and you can get some surprisingly early kills. If killing's not your forte, then feel free to time people out.

So yeah it's not a bad Samus stage.

 

[Throwback]

heaps of stuff there I hadn't considered, particularly breaking the stage deliberately. Thanks!

 

[Karcist]

I used to think this way too, but recently I find myself doing better against Wolf in general(do better as Bowser actually, but I feel safer as Samus).

The key, I find, is to this is not letting him get any momentum on you. His B-air shuts down several of your options if he can get in close, but his other aerials aren't too great. Just a personal suggestion, but I find N-air and F-air useful against his B-air approaches(given you stay out of its range/airdodge).

Lasers are annoying, but you can get around them by playing smart. You shouldn't spend too much time on the ground in the first place if he's relying on neutral B. The closer he is, the more in danger you are trying to spotdodge or powershield them. If you are close to him, read whether he'll SH or not, try to get an SH/FF airdodge > Z-air on him, or try to approach with FF U-airs. Also, try to pick stages that have platforms. You'll have a hella easier time dealing with them on BF than you will on FD.

/shocked
Wolf does have poor recovery, on the bright side. Wolf shouldn't be killing extremely earlier, as powershield > D-smash and B-air will be mainly use to rack up damage/get you away from him. If they try to keep it fresh, or rely on spamming kill moves once you are at dangerously high percent, attempt to bait him. Lure him to the ledge if you can, space with projectiles/Z-air, just play safe in general, which you already should be doing. Stay in the air if it makes it any easier.

Spacies' reflectors = lol. You shouldn't be blatantly using your projectiles without planning ahead in the first place. Not sure where, but several people have stated on these boards before that they like to use the risk factor in their favor. Play games with them, try to catch them off guard, be unpredictable, yadda yadda. It doesn't really effect spamming missiles if you have space in between you, and if there isn't, reflected things aren't hard to shield at all. Just keep on your toes, throw shots that have expected results, don't get careless and pay attention to both of your reactions.
As an offensive/disruptive move, it isn't fantastic on Samus, either. You shouldn't be U-tilting out of the blue, for starters. If he's close, try to catch him with an Up B OoS(works wonders on platforms, too). If he tries to get back onto the stage with it, call his bluff, abuse his ending lag, get a pivot grab in, etc. Again from the personal side, I use full hop over his shine > FF U/N-air.

Can't particularly help here. Seriously just suggest learn to CP better/learn your CPs well. I've made the mistake of taking him to stages that he was stronger on as well.

You can disrupt his Side B with pretty much anything. U-air, N-air, tilts/jabs, missiles, Z-air, hell, even a well timed CS. Easier said than done, but it's something to practice on. Her great air game is really one of if not her best tool against most of the spacies.

Spoiler

I'm rusty though so take this with a grain of salt/take advice from a better Samus.

I'm not seeing the fair or nair approaches through his bair, it simply comes out too fast and people always retreat after using it. This makes it uncounterable because he has better aerial mobility than us. Also, all of his aerials are decent (except maybe his dair, but thats irrelevant). His fair and u air are disjointed and very powerful.

Don't forget that we HAVE to land on the ground to autocancel our ranged moveset. He can punish our lands accordingly. Also, powershielding down smash is WAY easier said than done. You could bring up powershielding beating about virtually any move as well because his d smash hits on either frame 4 or 5.

Wolf's shine is actually EXTREMELY good. It doesn't = lol at all. The Wolf boards made a tier list of moves and his reflector is the 3rd move in the S tier. It has invincibility frames at the startup which is why it shuts our u tilt down (except when we are edge guarding). It also comes out almost instantly meaning that you really never know for sure if they will deflect it. Baiting only does so much and you can't really set CS up guaranteed except for missile locks but even then you have to guess whether the missile will hit because if you wait he will have time to reflect.

 

[KillerJawz]

Added Luigi matchup guide.

 

[DtJ Composer]

I couldn't tell if it was implied or not, but it's worth nothing that Luigi's Jab+UpB is not guaranteed. I know you can morph bomb far enough away after the jab to miss the sweet spot, I'm not sure if you can DI away or not.

 

[KillerJawz]

It's guaranteed if we are airborne, grounded we can simply shield it.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Really, because the frame-data on the luigi boards says otherwise >_>

 

[Xyro77]

It's guaranteed if we are airborne, grounded we can simply shield it.

Really, because the frame-data on the luigi boards says otherwise >_>

Air or ground luigi can jab to UP+B us unless we knew it was coming and did extreme DI.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Air or ground luigi can jab to UP+B us unless we knew it was coming and did extreme DI.

If you knew it was coming then you should get hit by the first jab in the first place unless you get caught doing something laggy, and you still shouldn't get hit unless they spot-dodge.

Even if you tried to DI, it is still unavoidable if you are hit with the first jab and the opponent times it properly.

Luigi has an 8 frame advantage on Samus after the first jab, so he go anywhere from fsmashing, to upB, to turnaround utilt.

 

[Xyro77]

If you knew it was coming then you should get hit by the first jab in the first place unless you get caught doing something laggy, and you still shouldn't get hit unless they spot-dodge.

Even if you tried to DI, it is still unavoidable if you are hit with the first jab and the opponent times it properly.

Luigi has an 8 frame advantage on Samus after the first jab, so he go anywhere from fsmashing, to upB, to turnaround utilt.

Ive literally seen luigi jab a character and he teleports to the other side of luigi. You can DI and get out of it.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Ive literally seen luigi jab a character and he teleports to the other side of luigi. You can DI and get out of it.

That's certainly news to me, but i imagine that managing that type of DI is **** hard to pull off. Also, if they land behind luigi i am fairly certain he can still do something about it.

Is not the time it takes to do a turn-around action about 2 or three frames? If so, then that leaves luigi with a 5 frame advantage so he could still turn-around grab/jab/dsmash.

But i digress, that is still a useful piece of imformation Xyro, thanks for telling me.

 

[Xyro77]

That's certainly news to me, but i imagine that managing that type of DI is **** hard to pull off. Also, if they land behind luigi i am fairly certain he can still do something about it.

Is not the time it takes to do a turn-around action about 2 or three frames? If so, then that leaves luigi with a 5 frame advantage so he could still turn-around grab/jab/dsmash.

But i digress, that is still a useful piece of imformation Xyro, thanks for telling me.

Yea he must have KNOWN he messed up but was spot on with the DI. And yea im pretty sure luigi could have done soemthing even though the foe went behind him its just i dont think the luigi expected him to do that so i guess thats why he wasnt punished.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Lol well i am sure no luigi would have expected that unless the opponent could do it consistently.
It would take some good reaction time to still be able to punish the opponent if they were to DI behind you. Most people don't have those kind of reactions though, so it would be hard to catch.

Also, off topic question, is it possible to DI out of Zelda's usmash/fsmash? It would be wonderful if you could.

 

[Xyro77]

Lol well i am sure no luigi would have expected that unless the opponent could do it consistently.
It would take some good reaction time to still be able to punish the opponent if they were to DI behind you. Most people don't have those kind of reactions though, so it would be hard to catch.

Also, off topic question, is it possible to DI out of Zelda's usmash/fsmash? It would be wonderful if you could.

Yes its very possible in fact her u/fsmash reminds me of pikas dsmash....its that easy.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Wow, i have been getting killed where i shouldn't then. I will have to work on that.

What is the next character for discussion?

 

[Xyro77]

Its pretty much what ever you guys want. im open for w/e

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Might i suggest Toon Link? He seems to give me a lot of trouble considering he can counter a lot of our spam with his own..

 

[Zatchiel]

You sure on Zelda Usmash? :V
I find it inexcusably hard to DI from, and i heard only a few chars can DI out.

If you can DI, where? I always mash up as if it's Pika Dsmash, but it's worthless.

Edit: I second Omega.

 

[Xyro77]

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/6526/peachmatchupchart.png

See that? im gonna try to get/do one like this for samus. Doing numbers like (60:40) is not too accurate cause 60:40 can mean "EVEN" for some boards and "slight advantage" for others.



So i ask everybody to rank the entire cast(ONLY the chars that you KNOW WELL).

Heavy Advantage
Advantage
Slight Advantage
Even
Slight disadvantage
Disadvantage
Heavy Disadvantage

 

[LiteTheIronMan]

Might i suggest Toon Link? He seems to give me a lot of trouble considering he can counter a lot of our spam with his own..

Yeah, what he said. I'd like to see a Toon Link matchup guide here since he's one of the guys I have trouble with the most.


I feel so small and helpless posting in a thread in a board where no one will recognize me help

 

[KillerJawz]

MK - Heavy Disadvantage
Snake - Disadvantage
Diddy - Disadvantage
Falco - Heavy Disadvantage
Marth - Heavy Disadvantage
Pikachu - Heavy Disadvantage
Olimar - Heavy Disadvantage
Lucario - Disadvantage
Toon Link - Heavy Disadvantage
Zero Suit Samus - Disadvantage
Kirby - Disadvantage
R.O.B - Slight Disadvantage
DK - Slight Disadvantage
Peach - Even
Fox - Slight Disadvantage
Luigi - Even
Sheik - Disadvantage
Bowser - Slight Advantage
Ike - Heavy Advantage
Yoshi - Heavy Advantage
Mario - Disadvantage
Captain Falcon - Slight Advantage
Samus - Even
Jigglypuff - Advantage
Link - Slight Advantage
Zelda - Advantage
Ganon - Heavy Advantage

 

[Zatchiel]

MK - Heavy Disadvantage
Snake - Disadvantage
Diddy - Disadvantage
Falco - Heavy Disadvantage
Marth - Heavy Disadvantage
Pikachu - Heavy Disadvantage
Olimar - Heavy Disadvantage
Lucario - Disadvantage
Toon Link - Heavy Disadvantage
Zero Suit Samus - Disadvantage
Kirby - Disadvantage
R.O.B - Slight Disadvantage
DK - Slight Disadvantage
Peach - Even
Fox - Slight Disadvantage
Luigi - Even
Sheik - Disadvantage
Bowser - Slight Advantage
Ike - Heavy Advantage
Yoshi - Heavy Advantage
Mario - Disadvantage
Captain Falcon - Slight Advantage
Samus - Even
Jigglypuff - Advantage
Link - Slight Advantage
Zelda - Advantage
Ganon - Heavy Advantage

This, but i think you're missing some characters...
Other than that, agreed.

 

[Cherry64]

Ive literally seen luigi jab a character and he teleports to the other side of luigi. You can DI and get out of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyEa_zUXjp8

For Sr s

 

[Throwback]

MK - Heavy Disadvantage
Snake - Disadvantage
Diddy - Disadvantage
Falco - Heavy Disadvantage
IC - Slight Advantage
Marth - Even
Pikachu - Heavy Disadvantage
Toon Link - Slight Disadvantage
Kirby - Disadvantage
DK - Slight Disadvantage
Peach - Slight Advantage
Fox - Disadvantage
Luigi - Even
Sheik - Disadvantage
Bowser - Slight Advantage
Ike - Slight Advantage
Mario - Disadvantage
Captain Falcon - Even
Samus - Even
Link - Slight Advantage
Zelda - Advantage
Ganon - Heavy Advantage

 

[Xyro77]

these lists are good. DO NOT include characters you know nothing/little about. it skews results.

 

[KillerJawz]

This, but i think you're missing some characters...
Other than that, agreed.

these lists are good. DO NOT include characters you know nothing/little about. it skews results.

That.

10thats.

 

[Throwback]

these lists are good. DO NOT include characters you know nothing/little about. it skews results.

I've removed ZSS from my list, I don't really have the exp to make a call on that one.

 

[IsmaR]

- Slight Advantage.
- Advantage
- Slight Disadvantage
- Even - Slight Advantage
- Slight Disadvantage
- Even - Slight Advantage
- Slight Advantage - Advantage
- Slight Disadvantage - Disadvantage
- Advantage
- Even - Slight Disadvantage
- Slight Disadvantage - Disadvantage
- Even - Slight Advantage
- Advantage
:448:/ - Even
- Even - Slight Disadvantage
- Even
- Slight Advantage
- Slight Disadvantage
:****:/ - Heavy Advantage/what everybody else said.
- Even
- Slight Advantage - Advantage
- Even
- Even
- Dunno enough about. Leaning towards Slight Disadvantage methinks.
+ / - Even - Slight Disadvantage
:item9:/ - Overall, Slight Advantage
- Even - Slight Disadvantage
- Slight Advantage - Advantage
- Advantage - Heavy Advantage
:nes:/ - Slight Advantage - Even - Slight Disadvantage
- 100-0/Samus always wins.
/ - Slight Disadvantage - Disadvantage
:redx:/ - Even - Slight Disadvantage
- Dunno enough about, leaning towards Slight Disadvantage.
/ - Slight Disadvantage - Disadvantage
- Slight Advantage - Even - Slight Disadvantage
- Advantage - Heavy Advantage
- Even - Slight Advantage - Advantage
:shiek: - Even - Slight Disadvantage
- Even - Slight Advantage

Bolded is/are what I believe more, though may not be completely sure on.
Get@me

 

[IYM!]

i think slight adventage, Link can be a trouble if he get closer enough to samus.

 

[DtJ Composer]

- Huge Advantage
- Even
- Slight Disadvantage
- Slight Disadvantage
- Slight Advantage
- Even
- Huge Disadvantage
- Slight Disadvantage
- Slight Advantage
- Disadvantage/Huge Disadvantage once they learn the MU
- Slight Disadvantage
- Slight Disadvantage/Even
- Slight Disadvantage
- Disadvantage
- Even
- Even
- Slight Disadvantage (Huge Disadvantage personally I can't beat marios it's lame)
- Hopeless pick Ice Climbers instead
- Even/Slight Advantage
- Even
- Even

 

[Cherry64]

- Huge Advantage
- Even
- Slight Disadvantage
- Slight Disadvantage
- Slight Advantage
- Even
- Huge Disadvantage
- Disadvantage
- Slight Advantage
- Disadvantage/Huge Disadvantage once they learn the MU
- Slight Disadvantage
- Slight Disadvantage/Even
- Slight Disadvantage
- Disadvantage
- Even
- Even
- Slight Disadvantage (Huge Disadvantage personally I can't beat marios it's lame)
- Hopeless pick Ice Climbers instead
- Even/Slight Advantage
- Slight Disadvantage
- Even

I changed Pika, Marth but otherwise he read my mind.

 

[Xyro77]

Ganon=Heavy Advantage
Bowser=Heavy Advantage


Zelda=Advantage
Yoshi=Advantage
Ike=Advantage


Captain Falcon= Slight Advantage
JigglyPuff=Slight Advantage
Link=Slight Advantage
Lucas=Slight Advantage
Sheik=Slight Advantage


Donkey Kong=Even
IC=Even
Luigi=Even
Peach=Even
ZS=Even
Samus=Even
Rob=Even
PT=Even



Sonic=Slight Disadvantage
Wolf=Slight Disadvantage
Pit=Slight Disadvantage
Pikachu=Slight Disadvantage
Fox=Slight Disadvantage
GW=Slight Disadvantage
Mario=Slight Disadvantage
Ness=Slight Disadvantage


Snake=Disadvantage
Wario=Disadvantage
Toonlink=Disadvantage
Diddy=Disadvantage
Kirby=Disadvantage
Lucario=Disadvantage


Olimar=Heavy Disadvantage
Metaknight=Heavy Disadvantage
Marth=Heavy Disadvantage
Falco= Heavy Disadvantage
DDD=Heavy Disadvantage

 

[Magik0722]

I believe samus has a slight advantage on PT

Magik out

 

[Xyro77]

I believe samus has a slight advantage on PT

Magik out

You think so? How come?

 

[Magik0722]

http://www.youtube.com/user/Magik0722#p/f/37/2-e-g91A6wQ
Watch the charizard part, it is so hard to get close to spamus, i had to go through alot of trouble just to get close, just for the possibility of it paying off, luckily in that match they did. Anyway spamus can edge guard both squirtle and zard well and both squirtle and zard have upB penalty when they grab the ledge, so if we are at a high percent and on the ledge, it is a very dangerous place to be because of upB penalty. Since squirtle is so light weight it releives a problem spamus usually has which is KOing people, even though dtilt is weakened by type resistance from squirtle, it only softens the blow because squirtle is such a light weight he will stil lbe KOd early by it.

Squritle vs Spamus: 55-45
Charzard vs Spamus: 4-6
Ivy vs Spamus: 35-65
Magik's Ivysuar vs spamus: 65-35