Ignore.

[KillerJawz]

I'm going to run a quick test

Edit: What I've found is that sometimes the CS will zap the banana, but othertimes it goes straight through, I have no idea why this occurs.

Needs more LanceStern to explain this. In the mean time, I'll go and ask the Diddy boards.

Edit2: Found something a little bit strange. Was repeatedly trying it on FD with no avail, but on one of the attempts, the banana made that spark animation when something lightly grazes the surface, it also had this effect when the banana slid down a slope on lylat.

 

[Xyro77]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAMsflea_Bs

so confused...please explain.

i think it has to do with port priority. LOTS of dumb things happen with multiple chars depending on port.

 

[KillerJawz]

i think it has to do with port priority. LOTS of dumb things happen with multiple chars depending on port.

Like Fox's utilt clanking with our fsmash. Won't happen if we're on port 4.

 

[Xyro77]

Like Fox's utilt clanking with our fsmash. Won't happen if we're on port 4.

more like UP+B being cancelled out by falcon jab or fox u tilt. port 4 is the answer you say?






Off topic: i think Peach vs Samus is one of the most even MUs i have EVER played in this game. TRUE skill and TRUE intelligence wins that fight. I LOVE IT!

 

[KillerJawz]

I'm not sure, but weird things happen when Samus is on port 4, VERY weird things.

 

[CLove]

all i have to say,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3Eow3JloZM

 

[KillerJawz]

Brilliantly spaced move was brilliantly spaced.

Bad MK player is bad.

MK ***** Samus. End of discussion.

 

[Xyro77]

all i have to say,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3Eow3JloZM

Legan has main LINK for over 2 years.....his mk is not anywhere NEAR his links level. Plus, midwest is the WORST of the 4 regions so......ROFL

 

[Cherry64]

Probably why there's a good ink in midwest. Although I'll jsut get shunned for that because I live in Canadia FTL.

Clove I love your stage hacks, buut It's weird that nothing happened to your CS, literally mine gets eaten by nana's all the time, try it without any hacks and see what happens maybe? it SHOULDN'T affect anything but maybe, if not then it's probably port priority, Also try it without the glide toss

 

[CLove]

Probably why there's a good ink in midwest. Although I'll jsut get shunned for that because I live in Canadia FTL.

Clove I love your stage hacks, buut It's weird that nothing happened to your CS, literally mine gets eaten by nana's all the time, try it without any hacks and see what happens maybe? it SHOULDN'T affect anything but maybe, if not then it's probably port priority, Also try it without the glide toss

oh boy.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8D0K28urMo

i have never had a banana eat my CS.

one of my main approaches to the diddy kong matchup is to CS the banana throw...if I can condition them out of using bananas so much...or hurt their confidence in their best setups...it can give me a mental edge. It is still one of Samus' hardest matchups.

For me...
Samus:

Big Disadvantage: Almost 30-70 (whatever that means)
DeDeDe
Olimar

Disadvantage: worse than 40-60
Falco
Diddy

Slight Disadvantage: (between 40-60 and 49-51)
Pretty much everybody...

Even:
A few like Peach, Ike, ZSS and some others.

Slight Advantage:
Link
Ganon
Bowser (maybe)

 

[KillerJawz]

oh boy.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8D0K28urMo

Well theres a strange difference here. My CS hits Bananas, but sometimes goes through them, Xyro and Cherry both have had their charge shots stopped by bananas. Research it.

Even:
Ike,

=_=

Anyway. How are the matchup writeups going? Xyro?

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

all i have to say,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3Eow3JloZM

I did that myself not too long ago against Tiger, Seagull the Wolf main's girlfriend. But her MK isn't too spectacular.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN2256VSdqE

First stock

 

[CLove]

I did that myself not too long ago against Tiger, Seagull the Wolf main's girlfriend. But her MK isn't too spectacular.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN2256VSdqE

First stock

yeah...i do it a lot. (not meaning to sound boastful, just saying its not some sort of fluke hit.) and if you notice it is really hard for the MK to DI the hit, making low KOs.

all of our tilts and our dash attack can beat tornado if we hit it early...

but utilt is the best...because it hits the top, and it can even be deep into the tornado's spin...its tough to space, but not REALLY tough, not as tough as zairing the MK out of tornado.

But obviously, the best and most consistent option against tornado is CS. It has to be nearly fully charged though to break the tornado.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

About anything that can hit MK from the top of the nado hits him out of it, you can actually screw attack out if you are at the top, at least, that's what i found

 

[DelxDoom]

I always lose Samus vs Peach.

 

[Xyro77]

I always lose Samus vs Peach.

Watch the vids of me vs illmatic for high level peach play and watch kj vs euro peach for low to medium peach play. There is a BIG difference in styles. if the peach you play is closer to the peach KJ plays then watch his vids till u drop dead.

 

[IsmaR]

Between 08 and 09, I played a hella lot of Peach's, learned the MU pretty well. I like the match up, is challenging, yet comes close if both you and your opponent stay smart.

And odd about the Diddy thing. My CS has never been eaten either, nor have I ever really had much problems in the MU. CS mindgames unhindered help out a lot.

And nice Kanden texture @ Omega. Can never land a good U-tilt myself, from what I still remember I liked to use N-air or CS to break Nados. .-.

And lastly I'll try getting to work on the article soon. For the record though, I signed up to take care of ZSS, and MAYBE Falcon, not the other way around <_<

 

[KillerJawz]

Watch the vids of me vs illmatic for high level peach play and watch kj vs euro peach for low to medium peach play. There is a BIG difference in styles. if the peach you play is closer to the peach KJ plays then watch his vids till u drop dead.

Tbf I think the Peaches are roughly on the same level. Siri utilises Peach's ATs to an amazing extent whilst Illmatic specialises in superb spacing.

 

[Muz]

For what its worth, I've never seen one of my fully charged charge shot be stopped by a thrown or grounded banana. Pikmin yes (ARGH) but not bananas. Not saying that it can't or doesn't happen, but just from my experience.

 

[Xyro77]

Tbf I think the Peaches are roughly on the same level. Siri utilises Peach's ATs to an amazing extent whilst Illmatic specialises in superb spacing.

im not saying siri is trash but he did not play the MU right at all. thats why i told that other samus guy to watch your vids cause im pretty sure that the peach he fights doesnt know the MU so that would mean your videos are best to watch and learn from. peach is supposed to stay grounded and get in with glide toss oos and stuff.

 

[KillerJawz]

im not saying siri is trash but he did not play the MU right at all. thats why i told that other samus guy to watch your vids cause im pretty sure that the peach he fights doesnt know the MU so that would mean your videos are best to watch and learn from. peach is supposed to stay grounded and get in with glide toss oos and stuff.

Illmatic was hardly stuck to the ground tbf, though you are right about glide toss OoS.

 

[Xyro77]

Illmatic was hardly stuck to the ground tbf, though you are right about glide toss OoS.

Those vids were of him not at his best. Hes knocked me out of tourney due to him playing it right.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

I honestly never have too much trouble against Peach. I have played Veggi's Peach a few times and his is pretty decent. Sure her turnip game is annoying, but zair and utilt usually takes care of floating shenanigans quite nicely for me. i also love using turnips against her, but it doesn't compare to how much i love out-playing a Diddy's bananas.

 

[z00ted]

Nice thread Xyro! Great organization.

Peach vs Samus?
It's pretty tricky haha. Although it may sound conceited I have to back up Xyro when he says some of the videos uploaded aren't of my Peach at its best. We have had some INCREDIBLE matches but they sadly were not recorded.

Although I do not fully understand this matchup I really really enjoy it because its a challenge and I want to somehow feel as though I am comfortable with it.

I'll write my thoughts on it later - when I have more time.

 

[Karcist]

Lucario vs Samus​

This matchup sways heavily based on how early we can land a kill. It's obvious that Samus has trouble killing and when Lucario lives to higher percentages, killing you becomes easier. This match up is a moderately difficult one for Samus but very much winnable.

Areas Samus thrives:

Offstage: This is important because its the fastest way to kill Lucario by far. Dair is relatively easy to land on Lucario in comparison to most other characters, and it kills very early. Edge guarding Lucario is also great and you don't even need to have the timing down to tether for extended invincibility because Lucario's up b has no knockback.

Mid range: Zairs, missiles, and SH dairs can overwhelm Lucario at mid range and cause him to make errors. Once you start to feel like you're applying good pressure to Lucario, be ready to punish a roll. There's a reason people call Lucario "Rollcario". A good read is especially catastrophic for them if you have a fully charged CS ready. Also, it doesn't hurt to sometimes throw morph ball bombs out there to throw his rhythm off with AS and keep him guessing.

Areas Lucario thrives:

Up close: This is a given. Lucario wrecks Samus up close with jabs, f tilt, and grabs. Space f tilts when Lucario starts closing the distance on you. SH air dodge is also useful for creating distance as long as you don't get predictable.

From a distance: Lucario's aura spheres beat your missiles and charge shot without question, and you have to land in order to cancel the lag on your missiles which makes it hard to avoid aura spheres. His aura spheres also go through your missiles at higher percentages. Zairs range isn't what I would call "at a distance" so that's not an option in this category.

In the air: Lucario destroys all of your aerials with his (with the exception of zair). This leads to major problems getting juggled. His fair > your fair and bair. His u air > your dair and his dair massacres your u air. Avoid the air outside of using zair close to the ground

Another useful piece of information:

Lucario's kill moves are overrated IMO. Don't spot dodge often because Lucario's f smash has a lingering hitbox, and don't waste your second jump because it will leave you susceptible to getting punished on landing with an aura sphere. With a little bit of precaution it can be difficult for Lucario to kill even at higher percentages since he also lacks a good variety of kill moves. It is also nice that we are one of the heavier characters in the game.

Stages Samus should counter pick to:

I like having lots of platforms to use so I can move around more freely. My personal favorite though is probably Pokemon Stadium. We can u air through the bottom as well as fair which makes the ledge useful for us, and it is miserable trying to recover as Lucario here. PS1 also helps us stay at that mid range we want to be at when there are obstacles (most of the time) and it has platforms to use between shifts. I also like Lylat because it screws with his recovery and we can do some ledge tricks there. It also has plenty of platforms. Avoid Pictochat, Yoshi's story, and FD. Pictochat has a small offstage area making gimps less useful, and the map interferences are more of a nuisance to our camping game than Lucario's because his is mainly on the ground. Avoid Yoshi's because it's too small to move around well, the dip in the middle is terrible for us, and the map design assists his recovery. Avoid FD because the linear layout telegraphs your playstyle by allowing less mixups. It also assists his camping game hugely on top of making f smash more of a threat because of the lack of platforms. I hate FD in general with Samus tbh but especially against Lucario.

Ratio:

To be exact, I would put this match up at 63:37 in favor of Lucario. If you really want to stick with a traditional ratio then I would be happy with 65:35 or 60:40, I'm really not too concerned.

 

[ZeroL]

Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link - Omega, Th3 Composer
Ice Climbers - ZeroL
Lucario - Karcist
Lucas
Mario - Throwback
Diddy Kong - KillerJawz
Ganondorf - Xyro
Mr. Game and Watch - Th3 Composer, Omega
Captain Falcon - IsmaR
Wario - ZeroL

I'm having a semi-large smashfest of around 16 people on the 21th and 22th of August and pretty much the top 5 of Holland will be there. I can help with Mr. GaW, Ganon, Jiggs and Falcon after the smashfest. If any of you guys need my assistance or help, feel free to send me a PM or contact me.

 

[Karcist]

Dead thread is dead... Let's get on this

 

[KillerJawz]

This week's character is Meta Knight

v

 

[Xyro77]

Samus vs mk is Heavy Disadvantage for samus.

NOTHING is unwinnable in this game. it shouldnt be an option.

 

[IsmaR]

Word for word, I agree with Xyro.

 

[KillerJawz]

Well it's a persons opinion Xyro. I know that I shall be using it for a certain match up.

 

[Xyro77]

i mean you can do what you want but "unwinnable" i dont think is possible in this game. If i seriously have the intent of running the timer/ledge gay i can even beat MKs. If i do it to olimar or ddd or falco the MU literally becomes 70-30 in samus favor.

 

[KillerJawz]

That's you, Xyro. Not me.

 

[Xyro77]

you are supposed to be a copy of me. wtf happened?!?!?!!?!??!?!?!!?!??!

 

[KillerJawz]

I am a copy of you, I've just developed mad saltyness for getting graped by Olimars.

 

[Xyro77]

im playing floridas best olimar( i think) tomorrow. ill get vids up. without my timing them out i cant win. ill need help.

 

[KillerJawz]

I wish you the best of luck, Xyro. I do hope that once you've lost to him you to develop this saltyness.

Oh and my classification on this is:

Heavy Disadvantage

MK's entire arsenal can shut down our ledge game to extents that no other character can manage. He can juggle us exceptionally well and has the dreaded shuttle loop.

 

[IsmaR]

KJ's the dark side obv. Or actually....idk but I'm the opposite.

 

[NO-IDea]

Disadvantage.

For reasons stated by KJ. Except I don't camp the ledge. And I don't get juggled. Tell me what your problem is and I'll tell you how to fix it.

 

[KillerJawz]

Noid you're not funny, I suggest you stop trying to be. It's making you look really bad.