Ignorance or Racism

[Cheapless Jared]

People mix this up all the time. If you say that someone is black, somebody always says,"Racist." That's not racism!!! That's saying that they are black!!! Racism is discrimination against people for being different. not for saying what they are. If someone is chinese, they are chinese. If someone is black, they're black. What do people not get about this?!

 

[Maniclysane]

People get this, because people do not get this. I don't know how, or if this topic is too debatable, but sometimes people don't get the difference. To ensure they get the difference, you just say "African American."

Usually saying "Racist" after that is just a bad joke.

 

[ArcPoint]

I agree that it's not racist to call someone black. Just like it's not racist to call someone white instead of "European American". It's just this political correctness crap in my opinion. You're not supposed to say something just because it might offend people. Really? What if saying African American offends people? Is it PC then? What happens if calling people white offends them? What about if I take offense to being called Caucasian? You know, from here on, I demand to be called European American. Anything else will offend me.

 

[Mr. Rogu]

Lets say this. i learned in biology class that the word "race" itself was made up so that people could have power over others who look different. Its one thing to say that your descent is black and you call yourself black, but its another thing to say "O, look at that stupid black guy." now thats offensive.

 

[:mad:]

Lets say this. i learned in biology class that the word "race" itself was made up so that people could have power over others who look different. Its one thing to say that your descent is black and you call yourself black, but its another thing to say "O, look at that stupid black guy." now thats offensive.

I'm sorry... what? Try again, I really just cannot to respond to this.
We encourage mature ideas, spelling, grammar, and punctuation here.

 

[Mr. Rogu]

I'm sorry... what? Try again, I really just cannot to respond to this.
We encourage mature ideas, spelling, grammar, and punctuation here.

To be honest, I could barely reply to the original post. I was just trying to reply to it as best as I could.

 

[:mad:]

Fair enough. If you can't reply, there's no need to do so.
Let's just let this thread die.

 

[Ryan Ludovic]

if you acknowledge race you are a racist!!!!!

 

[.Marik]

if you acknowledge race you are a racist!!!!!

What the fu-

Please tell me you were being sarcastic.

 

[Rain(ame)]

It's not racist to refer to someone as black, white, or whatever. To use demeaning terms however, is. I could care less if someone was trying to describe me, and said, "That big black guy over there". However, it is all how you use it, too.

Rap is black music
Rock is white music
Country is white music
RnB is black music

Those are racist statements. I personally can't stand the standard of what Rap it today. (The violent and profanity laden norm you hear) A few songs catch my interest. I also know plenty of people in other races that listen to it. So it's not "Black Music"

I listen to Rock quite a bit, as of late...probably more than hip-hop or RnB. I even enjoy a bit of country. Heck, I listen to a little of everything. As do quite a few people I know. I know black people that won't even listen to Rap or RnB. Doesn't that defeat the purpose.


Using the term "Black" or "White" or "Chinese" or "Japanese" or "Mexican" in general isn't racist. When you use it to make a racist statement...that's when it becomes racist.

 

[Big-Cat]

I think people responding to Black as something racist is rather stupid. Why is there a double standard where we have to be PC and say African American while every other ethnic group doesn't have to be given a PC term?

As Rain(ame) said, I don't think there's anything wrong with using someone's race to describe someone such as in his example. However, I do think it's racist when you add a word like stupid before it.

I thought I should say this too: African American is actually a misnomer along with Asian American as you have Caucasians from the Middle East which "connects" Asia and Africa.

 

[Skrah]

One thing that really bothers me is how the black people that use the n word to refer to another black guy get pissed when a non black guy says it. So know it is insulting because if you're not black you can't say it?

I agree on Rainame on this debate, the words black, white, asian, etc. aren't insulting alone, but when you add "stupid", or any other word of that sort it becomes a racist comment.

 

[Hence]

People get this, because people do not get this. I don't know how, or if this topic is too debatable, but sometimes people don't get the difference. To ensure they get the difference, you just say "African American."

Usually saying "Racist" after that is just a bad joke.

In regards solely to the 'African-American' Ethnic group.
Our society really needs to begin to understand that the 'African-American' ethnic group is not the same group as the ’Black American' race group.
The two terms are not synonymous and should not be used inter-changeably.

Your other points are vaild.

 

[Rain(ame)]

Skrah, to be quite honest...I couldn't agree with you more. Although....I don't get upset if someone who is not black says it. Nowadays, I realize some people make attempts to break accross that barrier. I personally, say, let them. The N-word in general means "ignorant person". Still...I think some people have a hard time reading whether it's meant to be friendly or not. There are people who let those of other race say it because they know them, and they know it's not meant in any harm. They also know, however, that not EVERYONE will have that same attitude. It's slowly getting better, but I think black people in general need to be a bit more....open to the idea.

Then again...I'm probably largely in part, alone for that, xD. Just know that if you're around me...I personally couldn't care less, xD.

 

[Ryan Ludovic]

Racism is something a lot of non-racists are claimed to fall into.

I had a racist piano teacher who was black teaching me piano. Just about everything I'd say, he'd try to turn into me insulting him, which I was not. For example, "I got the hang of this song but its not really my favorite ". He would turn that into "Yeah, it's one of those black songs, huh."

Or, he'd just make stuff up at one point, Id say "I actually didn't get a chance to practice tuesday, but I'm confident I have the hang of this." and he'd say "Just because I'm black you don't have to call me MAN, calling me MAN is like saying we all talk like that, and we dont."

At one point, it just got rediculous, I said listen, I don't know why you want me to be racist when I am not, but I cannot deal with it every lesson. You often speak out against white people rudely, but I don't say anything because I clearly cannot be offended so easily. It's when you tell everyone I am a racist, and I am treating you differently because you are black, is when I actually get offended.

I really hate when I am labeled a racist, when it's obvious I am far from one. Some of my best friends are black, some others are white. And I know there are several people who think that sentance would be racist.

 

[Rain(ame)]

People like that need a reality check....for real. I honestly feel sorry for anyone going through that situation, and I know it means nothing, but I truly apologize for what you're going through. I wouldn't know whether to classify that as ignorance, racism, or a mixture of both.

In situations like that, though, sometimes it'd be better to pick your words wisely. If you get THEM to bring up the racist comment, it leaves them with no option. You could just ask, "What exactly do all of these statements mean?" I guess my thread about ignorance in statement might actually be a better spot for that, though. Still in all, yeah...it's not right.

 

[Ryan Ludovic]

It's pretty lame.
I actually basically cut him out of my life, and said if you want to believe im cutting you out of my life because you are black, you are entitled to your own incorrect theories.

Racism is often noted as a prejudice AGAINST a given race. It is also considered racist to do the opposite of being prejudice against a race, and to be prejudice in support of a race.

I don't want racism to be a word that is misused, and used as a tool to change a given situation.
I understand racism is a serious thing.. But if I'm called a racist one more time because I think obama sucks, then im really going to lose my mind.

 

[Skrah]

Basically it's the same situation as the gender inequality topic.

When a white man claims that a black, or for that matter any race, man is being racist to them it's ignored and often scorned at. But once a black man says he has been the victim of racist comments, its serious business.

 

[Rain(ame)]

It's sad that it's that way, too. I personally don't feel as if anyone should have to go through it, regardless of race. It's a matter of walking on eggshells, to be quite honest. You have to pick your words wisely when accusing someone of racism in some cases. Although it IS fightable. You just have to outsmart the person that is victimizing you. Eventually...both sides of the coin will be seen.

 

[Aorist]

Basically it's the same situation as the gender inequality topic.

When a white man claims that a black, or for that matter any race, man is being racist to them it's ignored and often scorned at. But once a black man says he has been the victim of racist comments, its serious business.

It's kinda sad, yeah. But when you take into account that black people have been encountering racism for years and years, and will continue to for years and years, it suddenly seems less of a problem. How many black people do you know in positions of power that could actually be racist with consequences? How about white people?

The situation sucked. I'm sorry about that. But there are black jerks. There are white jerks too.

 

[Xivii]

People mix this up all the time. If you say that someone is black, somebody always says,"Racist." That's not racism!!! That's saying that they are black!!! Racism is discrimination against people for being different. not for saying what they are. If someone is chinese, they are chinese. If someone is black, they're black. What do people not get about this?!

Racism is often used in the wrong way. Sometimes it is used jokingly. Someone may say “man that’s racist” but they may not be 100% serious. In fact I use it jokingly all the time; however I am never really serious about it. Other times people may use the term simply because they are ignorant of what racism really is, but most often it is used by false judgment. Those who falsely judge someone to be racist are just ignorant. They themselves are being prejudice. These type of people have most likely experienced some for of racism in their past or have seen it at some point. Because of that they tend to falsely presume non-racial acts to be “racist.” However if you were to describe somebody with the word black and someone declared you racist, I would assume they were saying so jokingly.

It depends on the way you use it too, as well as your tone of voice and expression. If you were to say “that black guy over there,” then that would be fine. There is nothing racist about that statement. That being, if you were to change your tone of voice when you said “black guy” and made it negative that would be a little different, especially if you had a disgust kind of look on your face. Then someone could be more precise in declaring you a racist. This though, is often not the case.

People get this, because people do not get this. I don't know how, or if this topic is too debatable, but sometimes people don't get the difference. To ensure they get the difference, you just say "African American."

I agree with this, if you absolutely want to make sure you are not viewed as “racist” then it would be most assuring to simply say “African-American.” That in no way means you have to though. “Black” is just fine. Anyone who gets upset over it just needs to be more accepting.

I personally prefer “Black” over “African-American,” but that is my personal opinion. Black-Americans are not African, they are Black. I am not from Africa and neither are my parents. I have African decent and I am proud of that but I am in no way African. Someone who is from Africa would be different. Same as if their parents or Grandparents were from Africa. Everyone has their own preferences on what they are called though. To me is not that big of an issue, but it really all depends on preference of the individual.

In other words:

In regards solely to the 'African-American' Ethnic group.
Our society really needs to begin to understand that the 'African-American' ethnic group is not the same group as the ’Black American' race group.
The two terms are not synonymous and should not be used inter-changeably.

Lets say this. i learned in biology class that the word "race" itself was made up so that people could have power over others who look different. Its one thing to say that your descent is black and you call yourself black, but its another thing to say "O, look at that stupid black guy." now thats offensive.

Correct. The word “stupid” by itself is insulting; associating it to an entire race is most certainly a prejudice way if thinking. Someone who refers to an entire race as “stupid” is someone who you could consider racist. Unfortunately I know quite a few people who think this way…

One thing that really bothers me is how the black people that use the n word to refer to another black guy get pissed when a non black guy says it. So know it is insulting because if you're not black you can't say it?

There is reason for this. I do not support anyone using the N-word, neither black nor White. What it represents is far beyond insulting. Imagine every insulting thing you could say to a black person and put it into one word. The N-word can be represented as that. It has a long painful history and even though it is just a word, it is still very hurtful. I myself do not openly use the word and don’t believe any black person should use it or any form of it. As generations go by, young blacks become more ignorant of what exactly the word represents and just how hurtful it is. It’s like saying you’re dumb for being black.
Now days black people often use it in the form ****ah in a non insulting way towards each other, but when a white person uses it, it is like saying “you’re less than me because you’re black.” If a white person called said “stupid white person” to a white person, how much of an insult would that be? They are both white. Most certainly it was said jokingly. Now if someone of a different race were to say the same thing towards a white person it would be different, it could taken as more of an insult. That in a way is analogous to when a white person uses the N-word, only to a larger scale.

I agree some what with Rain. People shouldn’t get upset when the N-word is used non-racially. If it is meant to be hurtful or directed towards a person then that crosses the line, however if someone is simply saying the word then there shouldn’t be any problem. For example if a white person was singing a rap song in which the N-word is used, then they should not have to be required to omit it. They have as much right as a black person; however that is only my opinion.

It's pretty lame.
I actually basically cut him out of my life, and said if you want to believe im cutting you out of my life because you are black, you are entitled to your own incorrect theories.

Racism is often noted as a prejudice AGAINST a given race. It is also considered racist to do the opposite of being prejudice against a race, and to be prejudice in support of a race.

I don't want racism to be a word that is misused, and used as a tool to change a given situation.
I understand racism is a serious thing.. But if I'm called a racist one more time because I think obama sucks, then im really going to lose my mind.

I agree, your piano teacher must have gone through something in his past that affects the way he judges people. None of what you said is racist in anyway. He himself was being prejudice by acting that way towards Caucasians.

I also get very annoyed when people call someone racist for not liking Obama, it is just plain unfair. I myself support Obama, but I in know way view anyone who does not support him as a racist.

People like that need a reality check....for real.

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

People mix this up all the time. If you say that someone is black, somebody always says,"Racist." That's not racism!!! That's saying that they are black!!! Racism is discrimination against people for being different. not for saying what they are. If someone is chinese, they are chinese. If someone is black, they're black. What do people not get about this?!

It could be a joke, or an attempt to annoy someone. I honestly doubt that someone would respond to the statement " He's black" with "Racist!" in a serious conversation, if they actually know what racial discrimination is.

zen1 in his last paragraph said something similar to the Bradley effect, in which non-racist people vote in opinion polls (not the real election) for the candidate of a different race, for fear of being perceived as racist. While in the real election they vote for the candidate that they actually want to vote for.

 

[Xivii]

zen1 in his last paragraph said something similar to the Bradley effect, in which non-racist people vote in opinion polls (not the real election) for the candidate of a different race, for fear of being perceived as racist. While in the real election they vote for the candidate that they actually want to vote for.

I actually said.

I also get very annoyed when people call someone racist for not liking Obama, it is just plain unfair. I myself support Obama, but I in know way view anyone who does not support him as a racist.

Which really doesn't have anything to do with the Bradley Effect...

 

[woody72691]

everyone has a problem with obama. well the ones i know

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Umm... Is that them being racist or them not liking him? Someone could not like him because of his policies as opposed to his race.

Overall I agree with everyone who's saying that using words like "black" "white" etc. isn't racist unless you use it in a racist or prejudicial statement.

Weird fact that kinda has to do with this subject: Tiger Woods is the only golf player on the PGA or LPGA.

 

[KrazyGlue]

There is reason for this. I do not support anyone using the N-word, neither black nor White. What it represents is far beyond insulting. Imagine every insulting thing you could say to a black person and put it into one word. The N-word can be represented as that. It has a long painful history and even though it is just a word, it is still very hurtful. I myself do not openly use the word and don’t believe any black person should use it or any form of it. As generations go by, young blacks become more ignorant of what exactly the word represents and just how hurtful it is. It’s like saying you’re dumb for being black.
Now days black people often use it in the form ****ah in a non insulting way towards each other, but when a white person uses it, it is like saying “you’re less than me because you’re black.” If a white person called said “stupid white person” to a white person, how much of an insult would that be? They are both white. Most certainly it was said jokingly. Now if someone of a different race were to say the same thing towards a white person it would be different, it could taken as more of an insult. That in a way is analogous to when a white person uses the N-word, only to a larger scale.

I agree some what with Rain. People shouldn’t get upset when the N-word is used non-racially. If it is meant to be hurtful or directed towards a person then that crosses the line, however if someone is simply saying the word then there shouldn’t be any problem. For example if a white person was singing a rap song in which the N-word is used, then they should not have to be required to omit it. They have as much right as a black person; however that is only my opinion.

If it's not being used hurtfully or in a derogatory manner, then yes, it shouldn't cause anger. But I disagree that young black people are becoming "ignorant" of the word's meaning. Words change, and you shouldn't hold on to the hurtful definition just for the sake of it. Things change; as long as the word is not used in a hurtful manner, nobody should think twice about it.

 

[Zero Beat]

everyone has a problem with obama. well the ones i know

Hey I don't mean to be a drag but please try to avoid one-liners.

Instead, point out the problems "everyone" has with Obama so we know where you stand. Helps with being replied to.

People mix this up all the time. If you say that someone is black, somebody always says,"Racist." That's not racism!!! That's saying that they are black!!! Racism is discrimination against people for being different. not for saying what they are. If someone is chinese, they are chinese. If someone is black, they're black. What do people not get about this?!

It's safe to say that is it HIGHLY possible(for the sake of not derailing the topic by saying "a fact") that prejudice against any race stems from being ignorant.

Also, while I am against affirmative action, (more like reverse discrimination) it is the only reason we have a black judge(or two?) in the U.S. Supreme Court.

 

[Aorist]

Also, while I am against affirmative action, (more like reverse discrimination) it is the only reason we have a black judge(or two?) in the U.S. Supreme Court.

PG isn't the place to debate it, but when I'm properly accepted into DH, there will be a reckoning.

 

[KrazyGlue]

I just saw the following quote:

It's not racist to refer to someone as black, white, or whatever. To use demeaning terms however, is. I could care less if someone was trying to describe me, and said, "That big black guy over there". However, it is all how you use it, too.

Rap is black music
Rock is white music
Country is white music
RnB is black music

Those are racist statements. I personally can't stand the standard of what Rap it today. (The violent and profanity laden norm you hear) A few songs catch my interest. I also know plenty of people in other races that listen to it. So it's not "Black Music"

I listen to Rock quite a bit, as of late...probably more than hip-hop or RnB. I even enjoy a bit of country. Heck, I listen to a little of everything. As do quite a few people I know. I know black people that won't even listen to Rap or RnB. Doesn't that defeat the purpose.


Using the term "Black" or "White" or "Chinese" or "Japanese" or "Mexican" in general isn't racist. When you use it to make a racist statement...that's when it becomes racist.

Those musical statements are not racist, they are racial stereotypes. I think there should be a distinction. With those racial stereotypes, you are not insulting any particular race, just making an assumption about everyone in it. I think stereotypes are a broader scope of things, meaning a racist comment is a racial stereotype, but a racial stereotype is not necessarily a racist comment.


EDIT: I've also seen a lot of repetition in this thread. I think we're all in agreement that just calling somebody "Black", "Mexican", etc. is not racist. We're also agreeing on the fact that using a negative adjective such as "stupid" to describe these races crosses the line. We also all realize that plenty of people joke about something being racist, and don't actually mean it. So I'd like to see this discussion move more towards new issues, such as stereotypes (what kinds are and aren't ok) and how connotation effects whether or not a comment is racist.

zen1 brought up good points about connotation and the use of "African-American":

-Connotation and tone can make a normally acceptable statement racist.
-"African-American" isn't always a correct term, because not all black people are African. In my opinion, this term is a racial stereotype.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Yeah, racial stereotypes are different than being racist.

Saying "All black people are good at basketball"
or
"All black people like chicken"

Isn't necessarily racist, like KrazyGlue said. "Racism" is defined as:

"rac⋅ism   [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races."

In summary, it's more of discriminating against people because of race, which can't be based only on ignorance, so I think the thread title should be "Ignorance vs. Racial Stereotypes" to make a distinction.

And I believe that many people do formulate racial stereotypes because they are ignorant, but you have to make a conscious choice to discriminate in a racist way, and I don't think that can be caused by ignorance alone.

 

[Palpi]

Hey I don't mean to be a drag but please try to avoid one-liners.

Instead, point out the problems "everyone" has with Obama so we know where you stand. Helps with being replied to.


It's safe to say that is it HIGHLY possible(for the sake of not derailing the topic by saying "a fact") that prejudice against any race stems from being ignorant.

Also, while I am against affirmative action, (more like reverse discrimination) it is the only reason we have a black judge(or two?) in the U.S. Supreme Court.

Why is affirmative action the only reason there is a black judge in the supreme court? Is the man not qualified for the job? Obviously, there is no way for us to prove his qualifications for the position, but I don't think he is in the supreme court he is black. That is almost like saying Barrack Obama got elected because he is African American. To get into the supreme court you get chosen by the president (i think) when there is a spot open. There is 9 judges so the president would obviously choose one (or however many) to suit the president's needs on the whichever matter goes through their court.

I don't think there is any proof that can explain an african american supreme court justice position based on affirmative action alone. The man is obviously qualified for the job, because he wouldn't be chosen for it if he wasn't, though that isn't fact

 

[Disfunkshunal]

in response to the OP:
i dont think that's being racist, it is however being discriptive. Race is one of the many qualities that define one person from another so pointing out someone's race as a form of identification is ok imo. Would it be offensive to refer to a blonde as a blonde? or a tall person as 'that tall guy'?
If there is no need to bring up race and someone does i might find that offensive and/or racist. For example if someone says to me, "i love black people" i would find that offensive because that sentence was in no way neccessary and drew unneeded attention to my race.

about affirmative action:
i will say that the reason that a black supreme judge was appointed over a white judge who may have been nore suited for the job is affirmative action but like palpi said it doesn't mean he wasn't qualfied. to be appointed judge the president chooses you but congress has to approve you. This means obviously that he wasnt just elected because of his race but also because he has most if not everything both president and congress want in a supreme court judge.

many people view affirmative action as counter racism but honestly what can we do? No doubt affirmative action denies some of the majorities' oppurtunities but without it wouldn't some minorities' oppurtunities be denied? There are still some racist people in the world who will do anything they can to keep the race they dont like down. Is this fair? There is no way to completely abolish racism