QuintonShark8714
Smash Apprentice
we can just wait until 2019 for the next Smash because 2019 is Smash Bros.' 20th Anniversary
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If you were in charge of roster picking for an upcoming Smash!!
- Thread starter LunarWingCloud
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Truth be told I rather wait for Smash NX to come out in a couple of years and play it then a port. Course I won't be getting NX and all so not like I'll actually play it much as I want too. But yeah if it means waiting couple of years again so be it. Smash has always been the best with time hopefully this is no different.
LIQUID12A
Smash Modder
A long thought process of mine to select a roster, going by series and trying to please a wide variety of the fanbase.
Note: the division between current series and new series refers to series already having a playable character, not the series presence in Smash overall.
Balance would be my goal, and with the selections made I think it's quite fairly balanced, the personal opinions of others notwithstanding.
Note: the division between current series and new series refers to series already having a playable character, not the series presence in Smash overall.
Currently represented series
Mario(including Yoshi and Wario)
The series right now is perfectly balanced in my eyes. The notable cast of today's Mario games is in and really doesn't need much change for the time being. However, with Paper Mario being as requested(and currently notable) as he is, I would turn Dr. Mario into an Alph-esque model swap for Mario himself in order to make space; as far as I'm concerned, three separate versions of the same character is redundant. I don't count Geno due to him being a huge wildcard copyright-wise.
Zelda
A 6th Zelda character really isn't a bad idea; the question is who. Zelda U/NX would probably be on my radar for character selection, but with how limited our info is on that game I wouldn't be opposed to selecting someone like Impa in her Hyrule Warriors incarnation.
Donkey Kong
A simple franchise to tackle. Add in Dixie and King K. Rool, and the series is just fine.
Metroid
My director bias comes into play here as I add in both Ridley and Sylux. There is absolutely no reason for both not to coexist in Smash, representing both fan demand and relevancy, respectively. Plus, with current trends, both are logical choices. I would add more characters, but balance is key and you get the best of both worlds with the two selected.
Pokemon
Add in a mon from Sun & Moon. Nothing else to say, other than it's the only non-Mario franchise I could justify having more than six characters on.
Kid Icarus
Stays as is.
Fire Emblem
Yeah, yeah, I get it, too many FE characters and blah. To circumvent the problem of overrep, revert Lucina back to alt status for Marth to bring the characters down to 5 again in the event a new game comes along. Then the addition of a new character won't sting as much.
Kirby
Could stay as is.
Star Fox
At worst I would bring Wolf back.
Earthbound
No changes needed.
F-Zero
No changes needed.
Animal Crossing
Isabelle would be a perfect addition to represent the modern Animal Crossing.
Pikmin
No changes needed.
Xenoblade
Shulk is a mainstay now. Unless a new Xenoblade is out by the time of the next Smash, Elma is added in to represent X.
Wii
No reason to cut Wii Fit Trainer or the Miis. And at the same time, nothing to add.
Retro characters
Bring back the Ice Climbers and add Takumaru.
Third Parties
In a perfect world, none of them are cut. I'm iffy on adding Snake back because Konami is Konami.
New series
Splatoon
I cannot think of a legitimate reason to leave the Inklings out in the next Smash if I was in charge.
Golden Sun
Would add in Isaac.
Mario(including Yoshi and Wario)
The series right now is perfectly balanced in my eyes. The notable cast of today's Mario games is in and really doesn't need much change for the time being. However, with Paper Mario being as requested(and currently notable) as he is, I would turn Dr. Mario into an Alph-esque model swap for Mario himself in order to make space; as far as I'm concerned, three separate versions of the same character is redundant. I don't count Geno due to him being a huge wildcard copyright-wise.
Zelda
A 6th Zelda character really isn't a bad idea; the question is who. Zelda U/NX would probably be on my radar for character selection, but with how limited our info is on that game I wouldn't be opposed to selecting someone like Impa in her Hyrule Warriors incarnation.
Donkey Kong
A simple franchise to tackle. Add in Dixie and King K. Rool, and the series is just fine.
Metroid
My director bias comes into play here as I add in both Ridley and Sylux. There is absolutely no reason for both not to coexist in Smash, representing both fan demand and relevancy, respectively. Plus, with current trends, both are logical choices. I would add more characters, but balance is key and you get the best of both worlds with the two selected.
Pokemon
Add in a mon from Sun & Moon. Nothing else to say, other than it's the only non-Mario franchise I could justify having more than six characters on.
Kid Icarus
Stays as is.
Fire Emblem
Yeah, yeah, I get it, too many FE characters and blah. To circumvent the problem of overrep, revert Lucina back to alt status for Marth to bring the characters down to 5 again in the event a new game comes along. Then the addition of a new character won't sting as much.
Kirby
Could stay as is.
Star Fox
At worst I would bring Wolf back.
Earthbound
No changes needed.
F-Zero
No changes needed.
Animal Crossing
Isabelle would be a perfect addition to represent the modern Animal Crossing.
Pikmin
No changes needed.
Xenoblade
Shulk is a mainstay now. Unless a new Xenoblade is out by the time of the next Smash, Elma is added in to represent X.
Wii
No reason to cut Wii Fit Trainer or the Miis. And at the same time, nothing to add.
Retro characters
Bring back the Ice Climbers and add Takumaru.
Third Parties
In a perfect world, none of them are cut. I'm iffy on adding Snake back because Konami is Konami.
New series
Splatoon
I cannot think of a legitimate reason to leave the Inklings out in the next Smash if I was in charge.
Golden Sun
Would add in Isaac.
Balance would be my goal, and with the selections made I think it's quite fairly balanced, the personal opinions of others notwithstanding.
Ura
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Gonna respond in point form because quoting all of that would be too tedious.
- That's true to a certain degree though you can still please a lot of fans by having a variety of characters getting in wanted by different demographics. i.e. Inklings and the Rhythm Heaven character for the casual base as well as K. Rool and Isaac for the hardcore base. Then you can also have IC's and Wolf for the base that just wants vets back. It's better than what they did at the end of development; having a character as an advertisement as well as a character that's so divisive. An NX port would rectify what happened at the end of DLC and finally give people what they want.
- I for one don't care about the Meta being adjusted. It's not the frigging end of the world if there's another patch (and based on what i've seen with a lot of characters a patch could be needed for some of the characters but that's besides the point).
- Sure. With how DLC ended in the manner that it did, it left me with a lot to be desired as well as many others as mentioned above. Is that being "greedy"? Maybe but I along with others were very disgruntled and want to see an NX port that has a good number of Ballot characters that weren't added in the game that people wanted to see get in the game. Like I said before, Niny isn't our parents. Their a business. If we want something, we would naturally demand said thing. Their is no such thing as that unless they were giving this all away for free.
- That doesn't make sense at all and your pretty much refusing to accept that the two are very similar. Zelda is a much bigger brand than Smash Bros is and yet it still included extra characters and content to make the port more marketable to consumers. I don't imagine people would want to buy the same game with the same content. Same thing goes for Smash Bros. Why the hell would people want to buy what's pretty much the same game with a few minor tweaks? That's insanity at it's finest. Yeah, you can make the argument of "The NX port would be for people without Wii U's" but then you would be making the assumption that the NX base would be bigger than the Wii U base let alone massively bigger to warrant making a straight up port for said extra customers especially if the NX's base is comprised of mostly pre-existing Wii U owners who already have Smash 4.
- Going back to the "cash grab" notion, I don't see how adding a bunch of extra content for the NX version is such a bad thing when what your proposing for an NX port is basically porting a game and added nothing to it. Gonna have to go back to my point of Nintendo being a business. @Only Human put it best.
The game doesn't need Sakurai to succeed. I'm perfectly fine with Namco taking over for getting all the extra port content done. Sakurai could just give Namco a list of characters from the Ballot as well as other content in general and then poof we have an enhanced port of Smash Bros with a bunch of new content and stuff that make it very marketable for people looking to purchase an NX alongside the enhanced port. Just to clarify, I don't even expect all of this will happen. I'm going in this with zero expectations. All i'm saying is that an NX port having extra content, extending beyond being a straight up port would be a whole lot better than playing Smash Wii U with a couple of tweaks here and there. Everybody wins. People who were disgruntled at the end of DLC get the characters they wanted and Niny makes a lot of $$$ from NX sales and Smash sales. Cash grab perhaps but that's a cash grab I could get behind any day of the week.
D
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This is well thought out and you give a calculated guess for each series who stays who goes ECT it's perfect good job.
Ura
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I love you.
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QUOTE="SMX, post: 20986287, member: 236466"]Gonna respond in point form because quoting all of that would be too tedious.
- That's true to a certain degree though you can still please a lot of fans by having a variety of characters getting in wanted by different demographics. i.e. Inklings and the Rhythm Heaven character for the casual base as well as K. Rool and Isaac for the hardcore base. Then you can also have IC's and Wolf for the base that just wants vets back. It's better than what they did at the end of development; having a character as an advertisement as well as a character that's so divisive. An NX port would rectify what happened at the end of DLC and finally give people what they want.
- I for one don't care about the Meta being adjusted. It's not the frigging end of the world if there's another patch (and based on what i've seen with a lot of characters a patch could be needed for some of the characters but that's besides the point).
- Sure. With how DLC ended in the manner that it did, it left me with a lot to be desired as well as many others as mentioned above. Is that being "greedy"? Maybe but I along with others were very disgruntled and want to see an NX port that has a good number of Ballot characters that weren't added in the game that people wanted to see get in the game. Like I said before, Niny isn't our parents. Their a business. If we want something, we would naturally demand said thing. Their is no such thing as that unless they were giving this all away for free.
- That doesn't make sense at all and your pretty much refusing to accept that the two are very similar. Zelda is a much bigger brand than Smash Bros is and yet it still included extra characters and content to make the port more marketable to consumers. I don't imagine people would want to buy the same game with the same content. Same thing goes for Smash Bros. Why the hell would people want to buy what's pretty much the same game with a few minor tweaks? That's insanity at it's finest. Yeah, you can make the argument of "The NX port would be for people without Wii U's" but then you would be making the assumption that the NX base would be bigger than the Wii U base let alone massively bigger to warrant making a straight up port for said extra customers especially if the NX's base is comprised of mostly pre-existing Wii U owners who already have Smash 4.
- Going back to the "cash grab" notion, I don't see how adding a bunch of extra content for the NX version is such a bad thing when what your proposing for an NX port is basically porting a game and added nothing to it. Gonna have to go back to my point of Nintendo being a business. @Only Human put it best.
The game doesn't need Sakurai to succeed. I'm perfectly fine with Namco taking over for getting all the extra port content done. Sakurai could just give Namco a list of characters from the Ballot as well as other content in general and then poof we have an enhanced port of Smash Bros with a bunch of new content and stuff that make it very marketable for people looking to purchase an NX alongside the enhanced port. Just to clarify, I don't even expect all of this will happen. I'm going in this with zero expectations. All i'm saying is that an NX port having extra content, extending beyond being a straight up port would be a whole lot better than playing Smash Wii U with a couple of tweaks here and there. Everybody wins. People who were disgruntled at the end of DLC get the characters they wanted and Niny makes a lot of $$$ from NX sales and Smash sales. Cash grab perhaps but that's a cash grab I could get behind any day of the week.[/QUOTE]
- That's true to a certain degree though you can still please a lot of fans by having a variety of characters getting in wanted by different demographics. i.e. Inklings and the Rhythm Heaven character for the casual base as well as K. Rool and Isaac for the hardcore base. Then you can also have IC's and Wolf for the base that just wants vets back. It's better than what they did at the end of development; having a character as an advertisement as well as a character that's so divisive. An NX port would rectify what happened at the end of DLC and finally give people what they want.
- I for one don't care about the Meta being adjusted. It's not the frigging end of the world if there's another patch (and based on what i've seen with a lot of characters a patch could be needed for some of the characters but that's besides the point).
- Sure. With how DLC ended in the manner that it did, it left me with a lot to be desired as well as many others as mentioned above. Is that being "greedy"? Maybe but I along with others were very disgruntled and want to see an NX port that has a good number of Ballot characters that weren't added in the game that people wanted to see get in the game. Like I said before, Niny isn't our parents. Their a business. If we want something, we would naturally demand said thing. Their is no such thing as that unless they were giving this all away for free.
- That doesn't make sense at all and your pretty much refusing to accept that the two are very similar. Zelda is a much bigger brand than Smash Bros is and yet it still included extra characters and content to make the port more marketable to consumers. I don't imagine people would want to buy the same game with the same content. Same thing goes for Smash Bros. Why the hell would people want to buy what's pretty much the same game with a few minor tweaks? That's insanity at it's finest. Yeah, you can make the argument of "The NX port would be for people without Wii U's" but then you would be making the assumption that the NX base would be bigger than the Wii U base let alone massively bigger to warrant making a straight up port for said extra customers especially if the NX's base is comprised of mostly pre-existing Wii U owners who already have Smash 4.
- Going back to the "cash grab" notion, I don't see how adding a bunch of extra content for the NX version is such a bad thing when what your proposing for an NX port is basically porting a game and added nothing to it. Gonna have to go back to my point of Nintendo being a business. @Only Human put it best.
The game doesn't need Sakurai to succeed. I'm perfectly fine with Namco taking over for getting all the extra port content done. Sakurai could just give Namco a list of characters from the Ballot as well as other content in general and then poof we have an enhanced port of Smash Bros with a bunch of new content and stuff that make it very marketable for people looking to purchase an NX alongside the enhanced port. Just to clarify, I don't even expect all of this will happen. I'm going in this with zero expectations. All i'm saying is that an NX port having extra content, extending beyond being a straight up port would be a whole lot better than playing Smash Wii U with a couple of tweaks here and there. Everybody wins. People who were disgruntled at the end of DLC get the characters they wanted and Niny makes a lot of $$$ from NX sales and Smash sales. Cash grab perhaps but that's a cash grab I could get behind any day of the week.[/QUOTE]
I understand your guys points and agree to an extent but I just simply think adding further characters to the an already bloated roster would be overkill. Maybe I'm old fashioned in this regard but I prefer waiting 6 years for the next Smash because that's what we've always done in the past and allowed for us to advance and evolve the meta game competitively during that time. I would rather see the community experiment and advance the characters than see new characters, content, and updates included which then messes everything up. That's my opinion on the matter. I don't think either our opinions on the matter will change and that will just cause the thread to run down rabbit holes and distract discussion from talking about silly 100 character rosters. In the spirit of keeping this thread on; I will just concede. Your win.
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Ura
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That's cool Venus. I respect your opinion even though I don't agree with it.
In regards to your comment about the meta, I personally think that having more characters could be better for the meta and make it more interesting. IC's being in the game could potentially give the top tiers a run for their money and Isaac being in the game with all his crazy Psyenergy would be a force to reckon with.
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I do agree that Ice Climbers and other cut veterans should be included in a NX port since we won't have the limitations of te 3DS. I just would like the community to continue exploring the meta and advanxing it since updates and additional content sets us back. Personally, I would much rather see a Melee HD port for the NX than Smash 4. I would by it just to play Melee in HD.
Anyways, one thing I loved about the smash 4 roster was Sakurai's choices in bizarre but unique characters. WFT delighted me to no end despite not using her/him. Personally, I've always wanted Goku from Yuyuki just to piss off DBZ fans.
Ura
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I don't see why they would release Melee HD. If anything they would just release Melee on the VC for NX because doing an HD remake of Melee is just a waste of time. Smash 4 being on the NX makes sense given that all they have to do is port what they have from Smash Wii U and add extra stuff. IC's will most likely get in but if vets can get in then so can other Ballot characters and I don't see any reason to only have the former. Their both additions to the roster that will have an effect on the Meta.
I for one didn't like it, like really didn't like it (strictly talking about the Base roster). All of the characters I wanted didn't get in and characters I either didn't want or didn't care about were the ones that got in. Also chessed me to no end that we didn't get a Golden Sun and Advance Wars rep in the game. Those 2 series are absolutely deserving of having a rep in the game, especially Golden Sun.
Though I will agree that Goku from Yuyuki would be absolutely hilarious. The amount of internet memes and jokes that would spawn from that will last forever lol.
EDIT: Alright guys, just as I promised here's my Smash 5 roster. Keep in mind that the FE icon is Corrin and the question mark is Elma.
- Geno and Waluigi are added in as the Mario newcomers. Daisy is added in as an alt.
- K. Rool and Dixie are added in because DK deserves more representation.
- YLink returns with his Melee moveset alongside the ability to transform using his 3 masks. Tetra is also added in being relevant with HW.
- Sylux gets in over Ridley being a more practical addition as well as more relevant with FF.
- Bandanna Dee is added in as a Kirby newcomer due to Ballot popularity.
- Wolf returns alongside the newcomer Krystal who is added in as a newcomer due to Ballot popularity.
- Pichu returns and Sceptile is added in to complete the Grass, Fire, Water combination as well as due to Ballot popularity.
- FE gets no changes at all since they got way too much exposure in Smash 4. No additions or cuts.
- Elma is added in because Xenoblade is doing well with a rumor sequel happening and that she has good moveset potential.
- Isaac and Andy get in the game. Isaac gets in because he's very popular in North America like
and because of Ballot popularity. Andy gets in because the Wars series is a retro series dating even before FE so it deserves a rep.- Inklings get in because everyone likes Splatoon apparently.
- IC's return and Takamaru is added in as a retro rep.
- All the 3rd parties from Smash 4 return with Snake returning alongside the additions of Rayman, Heihachi, and Crash. Ken and Zack become alts for Ryu and Cloud respectively.
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9/10 would make passionate love to.I don't see why they would release Melee HD. If anything they would just release Melee on the VC for NX because doing an HD remake of Melee is just a waste of time. Smash 4 being on the NX makes sense given that all they have to do is port what they have from Smash Wii U and add extra stuff. IC's will most likely get in but if vets can get in then so can other Ballot characters and I don't see any reason to only have the former. Their both additions to the roster that will have an effect on the Meta.
I for one didn't like it, like really didn't like it (strictly talking about the Base roster). All of the characters I wanted didn't get in and characters I either didn't want or didn't care about were the ones that got in. Also chessed me to no end that we didn't get a Golden Sun and Advance Wars rep in the game. Those 2 series are absolutely deserving of having a rep in the game, especially Golden Sun.
Though I will agree that Goku from Yuyuki would be absolutely hilarious. The amount of internet memes and jokes that would spawn from that will last forever lol.
EDIT: Alright guys, just as I promised here's my Smash 5 roster. Keep in mind that the FE icon is Corrin and the question mark is Elma.
- Geno and Waluigi are added in as the Mario newcomers. Daisy is added in as an alt.
- K. Rool and Dixie are added in because DK deserves more representation.
- YLink returns with his Melee moveset alongside the ability to transform using his 3 masks. Tetra is also added in being relevant with HW.
- Sylux gets in over Ridley being a more practical addition as well as more relevant with FF.
- Bandanna Dee is added in as a Kirby newcomer due to Ballot popularity.
- Wolf returns alongside the newcomer Krystal who is added in as a newcomer due to Ballot popularity.
- Pichu returns and Sceptile is added in to complete the Grass, Fire, Water combination as well as due to Ballot popularity.
- FE gets no changes at all since they got way too much exposure in Smash 4. No additions or cuts.
- Elma is added in because Xenoblade is doing well with a rumor sequel happening and that she has good moveset potential.
- Isaac and Andy get in the game. Isaac gets in because he's very popular in North America like
- Inklings get in because everyone likes Splatoon apparently.
- IC's return and Takamaru is added in as a retro rep.
- All the 3rd parties from Smash 4 return with Snake returning alongside the additions of Rayman, Heihachi, and Crash. Ken and Zack become alts for Ryu and Cloud respectively.
Ura
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I feel ya man. I think I can fap to this roster.
Though personally i'm iffy of having whether or not to having Paper Mario over Waluigi in this roster. I'm leaning more towards the former.
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Luigi The President
Smash Hero
Good roster bro. I'd replace Geno with Paper Mario, though. I feel an addition to Wario, Animal Crossing, and F-Zero is needed though. A bit too much based on "Ballot popularity" which we don't even know officialy though. But overall, a good roster I'd be pretty happy with.I don't see why they would release Melee HD. If anything they would just release Melee on the VC for NX because doing an HD remake of Melee is just a waste of time. Smash 4 being on the NX makes sense given that all they have to do is port what they have from Smash Wii U and add extra stuff. IC's will most likely get in but if vets can get in then so can other Ballot characters and I don't see any reason to only have the former. Their both additions to the roster that will have an effect on the Meta.
I for one didn't like it, like really didn't like it (strictly talking about the Base roster). All of the characters I wanted didn't get in and characters I either didn't want or didn't care about were the ones that got in. Also chessed me to no end that we didn't get a Golden Sun and Advance Wars rep in the game. Those 2 series are absolutely deserving of having a rep in the game, especially Golden Sun.
Though I will agree that Goku from Yuyuki would be absolutely hilarious. The amount of internet memes and jokes that would spawn from that will last forever lol.
EDIT: Alright guys, just as I promised here's my Smash 5 roster. Keep in mind that the FE icon is Corrin and the question mark is Elma.
- Geno and Waluigi are added in as the Mario newcomers. Daisy is added in as an alt.
- K. Rool and Dixie are added in because DK deserves more representation.
- YLink returns with his Melee moveset alongside the ability to transform using his 3 masks. Tetra is also added in being relevant with HW.
- Sylux gets in over Ridley being a more practical addition as well as more relevant with FF.
- Bandanna Dee is added in as a Kirby newcomer due to Ballot popularity.
- Wolf returns alongside the newcomer Krystal who is added in as a newcomer due to Ballot popularity.
- Pichu returns and Sceptile is added in to complete the Grass, Fire, Water combination as well as due to Ballot popularity.
- FE gets no changes at all since they got way too much exposure in Smash 4. No additions or cuts.
- Elma is added in because Xenoblade is doing well with a rumor sequel happening and that she has good moveset potential.
- Isaac and Andy get in the game. Isaac gets in because he's very popular in North America like
- Inklings get in because everyone likes Splatoon apparently.
- IC's return and Takamaru is added in as a retro rep.
- All the 3rd parties from Smash 4 return with Snake returning alongside the additions of Rayman, Heihachi, and Crash. Ken and Zack become alts for Ryu and Cloud respectively.
D
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Okay, so I'm making a new roster (I hate changing my mind so often but oh well) I'm gonna cut the 3 clones, all of the DLC newcomers (please don't kill me for this) and Miis. Wolf and ICs (and maybe Snake) would return.
I won't talk about newcomers yet, as it's still work in progress.
I won't talk about newcomers yet, as it's still work in progress.
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Luigi The President
Smash Hero
Going to have to kill you for that, why exactly would you cut the newcomers?? And the Mii's??? I'd at least leave Dr. Mario in..
Depressed Gengar
Hana Is Best Girl
I can understand dropping the DLC newcomers and the clones, but... the Miis? Why them?
Even though this is a joke, let's not post stuff like that in this thread, or in any thread. Some people could still take this seriously.
D
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Woah chill dude...
Anyway, I wasn't satisfied with the DLC at all, and I can't justify keeping the only one I really like (Ryu) without keeping the other DLC characters. As for doc, I never understood why he even deserved to be in the game at the first place, he's just Mario in a lab coat.
I'll have to admit, I cut them because of pure bias. I just absolutely hate these guys, and I think the development team shouldn't have spent so much time on creating those outfits (and why do they cost money? They do absolutely nothing).I can understand dropping the DLC newcomers and the clones, but... the Miis? Why them?
Even though this is a joke, let's not post stuff like that in this thread, or in any thread. Some people could still take this seriously.
I hope you understand my opinion.
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If you're going around making rosters that get ratings, then this is an awful mindset to have.
Miis are fine.
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TheLastJinjo
Banned via Warnings
Disclaimer: This roster represents how I would conduct a selection of characters in a 2016 release of Super Smash Bros. (Kind of in the way that Melee was released not too long after Smash 64 and so mostly featured additional characters from the same era and a few more clone/semi-clones than usual. It's basically a buff to the current roster of Super Smash Bros. for Wii U & 3DS. Not a prediction of what the roster would look like years from now. This is a combination of predictions based on past character inclusions and the kind of characters I would add if I were in charge of the selection. And if I were in charge of the selection I would do my best to choose requested characters, but also characters that already have potential to derive a move set from, are currently prominent (so no IPs like Golden Sun or characters like Krystal are in this roster.), and are recognizable from the perspective of common Nintendo fans. No cult classic characters (Ex: Geno, Fawful, Tiki, Black Shadow)
I do not add characters for the sole purpose of boosting or reducing the number of characters or "representatives" a series has. That has never been a criteria for adding or refraining from adding characters (or at least it no longer is as Smash 4 clearly shows.) I did however get the idea of exploring Zelda and F-Zero for characters because they have been left out for quite a while, and by doing so I have found Samurai Goroh (a character who is very important to the series and is a recognizable Nintendo character) and Toon Zelda who is a popular request despite the rejection from anti-clone nazis. Mostly because she is a much cuter version of Zelda from a beloved style of Zelda games. I did not just add her because she was requested. The Zelda series lacks any further characters important enough to be represented in Smash, so I thought a popular version of a popular character (Zelda) would be a good choice. While in most cases adding another alternate character in the same series would be excessive, but in the case of the Toon Zelda, I do not believe so. If it was Young Link & Young Zelda I would agree it's excessive, but the Toon versions of these characters bring a lot of life just on their own and Toon Zelda is much more prominent in the Toon games than Zelda normally is. Also this roster is simply meant to buff up the previous one. Almost as if it were a continuation of DLC.
I'd also like to note that my stance on King K. Rool and Waluigi is very stern. I do not consider them characters that should normally be added. King K. Rool is been very absent from significant Donkey Kong games and Waluigi is entirely absent from the Wario series and even if he made a few cameos he is a Mario character anyway you look at it. But, in this case I added them since they were so incredibly requested.
I also see incredible potential in Walugi's moveset. Wario's move set was derived from his goofy, yet devious personality. I believe that basing Waluigi's moveset off his personality in the way that Wario was it will end in great results, possibly bringing even more love of the character. And is interesting to note that he was listed as a Wario character in the assist trophy video reel in the Smash Bros direct. I don't think listing him as a Wario character in Smash is very absurd since he has a relationship with Wario himself. And fans obviously would not care.
So let's get started. I'm going to show the roster and then I'm going to provide details for the newcomers, reasons for their inclusion, and I will address the most common arguments against their inclusion. I will also provide the changes I would make to veterans in the event that I was in charge of the roster.
Total Character Count: 68 + Mii Fighters
Newcomers (12):
Paper Mario
Dixie Kong (Semi Clone)
King K. Rool
Waluigi
Toon Zelda (Semi Clone)
Samurai Goroh (Semi Clone)
New Pokemon
Takamaru
Louie (Quarter Clone)
Elma
Rhythm Heaven Troupe
Inkling
Details:
Dixie Kong - Dixie Kong is significantly different from Diddy Kong. The moves she has that are based on Diddy are her Gumball Gun, her ponytail flip (side special), and her banana peel (down special). Her up special is completely different. It's admittedly similar to Donkey Kong's up special, but it's not a clone move. It does not stay on the groun and always propels her upwards in whatever direction the control stick is held and it is not powerful like Donkey Kong's up special. She is also very different from Diddy because she shares next to no basic attacks. Instead she uses her hair for most of them. She also uses her guitar for her Final Smash.
I recognize that Dixie would technically be the first clone that's not derived from the main character of a series. I don't know how strict Sakurai is on that, but whatever.
Waluigi - Waluigi's move set is not a shoehorned "Hits with Tennis racket, runs people over with go kart" move set. His move set is based on his quirky and devious personality. The same way in which Wario's was. He's shown to have all kinds of weird innovated abilities in the Mario series. Sakurai could create all kinds of moves based around Waluigi's characteristics.
Samurai Goroh - So I'm going to explain why Samurai Goroh is a semi-clone of Captain Falcon. When a character shares both body structure and abilities they become a clone of a character to some extent. I concede that Samurai Goroh is a bit more bulky than Captain Falcon, but there have been minor exceptions in the body structure area (Wolf, Young Link, Pichu) and like I said, Samurai Goroh is only slightly more bulk than Captain Falcon, but he has been shown to be just as flexible. One of the reasons Samurai Goroh is a clone is because behaves the same way as Captain Falcon in F-Zero. He's a racer/bounty hunter with a muscular physique just like Captain Falcon. Just like Wolf is a space pilot like Fox and Lucas is a psychic kid like Ness.
Fans are obviously going to argue: Sword = Unique Character. Just because a character has something that could be made into a "unique" move set (emphasis on the quotation marks there) does not mean it's a good idea. For starters the katana is not something Samurai Goroh uses outside of cut scenes. It's significant, but it's a smaller part of a bigger character. That's why in the move set I propose he DOES use his katana, but it is a smaller part of his move set. It is used for jabs and tilts (similar to Corrin) and also his side special. This is the move set I would propose for Samurai Goroh:
I find this to be the most logical option. And having a move set that contrasts with his rival makes more sense than a move set that consists of nothing, but swiping a sword. Some have tried to argue that a sword based move set would be more unique than a move set based on another character. I really don't see that. A move set that puts an interesting new twist on a familiar move set is still more unique than a move set that is entirely swiping a sword in whatever new way. This was understood even when Chrom was left out of Smash.
Before I end this discussion about Goroh, I'm going to adress in advance the people who would probably say: Well, if that's the case then how come Rosalina ain't a clone? As I mentioned before, anytime a character has shared both body structure and abilities with a character they have become a clone. Rosalina shares a similar body structure, but she does not share the same abilities or equipment as Peach. She is not equipped with Toads, Vegetables, or Parasols. Rosalina is not an example of a character that shares abilities with another. For example: Lucas shares the ability of PSI, Falco has the same equipment as Fox, Ganondorf's body is equipped to perform the same attacks as Captain Falcon. And all 3 of these characters share the body structure as the character they are based on. The same applies to every other clone character.
Takamaru - So I guess people are gonna try to argue that I'm contradicting myself because Takamaru mostly uses a Katana as his move set. But, those who have played The Mysterious Murasame Castle will know that Takamaru has more abilities. Takamaru is both a samurai and a ninja. He has abilities such as shurikens, invisibility, fire projectiles, and there are many things you can do with a ninja.
Louie - I added Louie over Alph for a few reasons. For one, Alph shares the exacts same body structure as Olimar. Louie is slightly taller and in Smash could have different speed and power. Louie also has a more lethargic personality which can be incorporated into his c attacks like his dash, side tilts, taunts, and animations, such as yawning during his idle pose or sleeping during his duck animation. The next reason Louie was chosen is important. In this version of Smash Olimar is restricted to the original 3 Pikmin, while his partner Louie uses the special mutated Pikmin: White, Purple, Rock. I find this to be a much more organized decision than in Smash for Wii U/3DS. Furthermore, I think it makes more sense to have the special mutant Pikmin given to Louie (the secondary character) than by Alph (the main character). In this Smash roster of course, Alph is a costume of Olimar & Brittany is a costume of Alph. So Pikmin 3 is still represented in this roster, more so than if Alph was his own character. It's a bad idea to take a character who is a costume and making them into their own character anyway. It takes a character that is already playable and disguising them as a newcomer when they're really not.
So to list all the differences: Louie is slightly taller and has a slightly bigger hitbox. He's also slightly slower and slightly more powerful. Louie duck animation depicts him sleeping. His trips during his smash attack and because of this it takes more time for him to get up, buck by tripping he hits people in front of him with his helmet, providing a stronger attack. One of his victory poses his him asleep being carried by Pikmin and then being woken up when they drop him.
Louie uses White, Purple, and Rock Pikmin. In this game Purple Pikmin have the ability to latch on to opponents, attack more slowly, but are harder to shake off. Rock Pikmin on the other hand do not latch onto opponents. They behave as Purple Pikmin have in the past 2 installments, but they can barry opponents in Smash attacks and easily break shields. Another change is that Olimar uses the S.S. Dolphin in his Final Smash while Louie uses the Hocotate ship.
Rhythm Heaven Troupe - This character consists of the Rhythm Heaven Girl (A character that appears on all the art, soundtracks, and title screens and has been in every game to date) along with a monkey and a chorus kid and through the use of her move set, several other Rhythm Heaven characters. She conducts the Chorus Kids as her Final Smash.
I really don't get why people use Karate Joe or Chorus Kids over this option. This character is literally The Rhythm Heaven Girl. She appears in just as many games, in fact she appears more because she appears on art, soundtracks, and title screens. She's also the most common appearing species of the game. Which are young adult, skinny females.
Changes to Veterans:
I do not add characters for the sole purpose of boosting or reducing the number of characters or "representatives" a series has. That has never been a criteria for adding or refraining from adding characters (or at least it no longer is as Smash 4 clearly shows.) I did however get the idea of exploring Zelda and F-Zero for characters because they have been left out for quite a while, and by doing so I have found Samurai Goroh (a character who is very important to the series and is a recognizable Nintendo character) and Toon Zelda who is a popular request despite the rejection from anti-clone nazis. Mostly because she is a much cuter version of Zelda from a beloved style of Zelda games. I did not just add her because she was requested. The Zelda series lacks any further characters important enough to be represented in Smash, so I thought a popular version of a popular character (Zelda) would be a good choice. While in most cases adding another alternate character in the same series would be excessive, but in the case of the Toon Zelda, I do not believe so. If it was Young Link & Young Zelda I would agree it's excessive, but the Toon versions of these characters bring a lot of life just on their own and Toon Zelda is much more prominent in the Toon games than Zelda normally is. Also this roster is simply meant to buff up the previous one. Almost as if it were a continuation of DLC.
I'd also like to note that my stance on King K. Rool and Waluigi is very stern. I do not consider them characters that should normally be added. King K. Rool is been very absent from significant Donkey Kong games and Waluigi is entirely absent from the Wario series and even if he made a few cameos he is a Mario character anyway you look at it. But, in this case I added them since they were so incredibly requested.
I also see incredible potential in Walugi's moveset. Wario's move set was derived from his goofy, yet devious personality. I believe that basing Waluigi's moveset off his personality in the way that Wario was it will end in great results, possibly bringing even more love of the character. And is interesting to note that he was listed as a Wario character in the assist trophy video reel in the Smash Bros direct. I don't think listing him as a Wario character in Smash is very absurd since he has a relationship with Wario himself. And fans obviously would not care.
So let's get started. I'm going to show the roster and then I'm going to provide details for the newcomers, reasons for their inclusion, and I will address the most common arguments against their inclusion. I will also provide the changes I would make to veterans in the event that I was in charge of the roster.
Total Character Count: 68 + Mii Fighters
Newcomers (12):
Paper Mario
Dixie Kong (Semi Clone)
King K. Rool
Waluigi
Toon Zelda (Semi Clone)
Samurai Goroh (Semi Clone)
New Pokemon
Takamaru
Louie (Quarter Clone)
Elma
Rhythm Heaven Troupe
Inkling
Details:
Dixie Kong - Dixie Kong is significantly different from Diddy Kong. The moves she has that are based on Diddy are her Gumball Gun, her ponytail flip (side special), and her banana peel (down special). Her up special is completely different. It's admittedly similar to Donkey Kong's up special, but it's not a clone move. It does not stay on the groun and always propels her upwards in whatever direction the control stick is held and it is not powerful like Donkey Kong's up special. She is also very different from Diddy because she shares next to no basic attacks. Instead she uses her hair for most of them. She also uses her guitar for her Final Smash.
I recognize that Dixie would technically be the first clone that's not derived from the main character of a series. I don't know how strict Sakurai is on that, but whatever.
Waluigi - Waluigi's move set is not a shoehorned "Hits with Tennis racket, runs people over with go kart" move set. His move set is based on his quirky and devious personality. The same way in which Wario's was. He's shown to have all kinds of weird innovated abilities in the Mario series. Sakurai could create all kinds of moves based around Waluigi's characteristics.
Samurai Goroh - So I'm going to explain why Samurai Goroh is a semi-clone of Captain Falcon. When a character shares both body structure and abilities they become a clone of a character to some extent. I concede that Samurai Goroh is a bit more bulky than Captain Falcon, but there have been minor exceptions in the body structure area (Wolf, Young Link, Pichu) and like I said, Samurai Goroh is only slightly more bulk than Captain Falcon, but he has been shown to be just as flexible. One of the reasons Samurai Goroh is a clone is because behaves the same way as Captain Falcon in F-Zero. He's a racer/bounty hunter with a muscular physique just like Captain Falcon. Just like Wolf is a space pilot like Fox and Lucas is a psychic kid like Ness.
Fans are obviously going to argue: Sword = Unique Character. Just because a character has something that could be made into a "unique" move set (emphasis on the quotation marks there) does not mean it's a good idea. For starters the katana is not something Samurai Goroh uses outside of cut scenes. It's significant, but it's a smaller part of a bigger character. That's why in the move set I propose he DOES use his katana, but it is a smaller part of his move set. It is used for jabs and tilts (similar to Corrin) and also his side special. This is the move set I would propose for Samurai Goroh:
I find this to be the most logical option. And having a move set that contrasts with his rival makes more sense than a move set that consists of nothing, but swiping a sword. Some have tried to argue that a sword based move set would be more unique than a move set based on another character. I really don't see that. A move set that puts an interesting new twist on a familiar move set is still more unique than a move set that is entirely swiping a sword in whatever new way. This was understood even when Chrom was left out of Smash.
Before I end this discussion about Goroh, I'm going to adress in advance the people who would probably say: Well, if that's the case then how come Rosalina ain't a clone? As I mentioned before, anytime a character has shared both body structure and abilities with a character they have become a clone. Rosalina shares a similar body structure, but she does not share the same abilities or equipment as Peach. She is not equipped with Toads, Vegetables, or Parasols. Rosalina is not an example of a character that shares abilities with another. For example: Lucas shares the ability of PSI, Falco has the same equipment as Fox, Ganondorf's body is equipped to perform the same attacks as Captain Falcon. And all 3 of these characters share the body structure as the character they are based on. The same applies to every other clone character.
Takamaru - So I guess people are gonna try to argue that I'm contradicting myself because Takamaru mostly uses a Katana as his move set. But, those who have played The Mysterious Murasame Castle will know that Takamaru has more abilities. Takamaru is both a samurai and a ninja. He has abilities such as shurikens, invisibility, fire projectiles, and there are many things you can do with a ninja.
Louie - I added Louie over Alph for a few reasons. For one, Alph shares the exacts same body structure as Olimar. Louie is slightly taller and in Smash could have different speed and power. Louie also has a more lethargic personality which can be incorporated into his c attacks like his dash, side tilts, taunts, and animations, such as yawning during his idle pose or sleeping during his duck animation. The next reason Louie was chosen is important. In this version of Smash Olimar is restricted to the original 3 Pikmin, while his partner Louie uses the special mutated Pikmin: White, Purple, Rock. I find this to be a much more organized decision than in Smash for Wii U/3DS. Furthermore, I think it makes more sense to have the special mutant Pikmin given to Louie (the secondary character) than by Alph (the main character). In this Smash roster of course, Alph is a costume of Olimar & Brittany is a costume of Alph. So Pikmin 3 is still represented in this roster, more so than if Alph was his own character. It's a bad idea to take a character who is a costume and making them into their own character anyway. It takes a character that is already playable and disguising them as a newcomer when they're really not.
So to list all the differences: Louie is slightly taller and has a slightly bigger hitbox. He's also slightly slower and slightly more powerful. Louie duck animation depicts him sleeping. His trips during his smash attack and because of this it takes more time for him to get up, buck by tripping he hits people in front of him with his helmet, providing a stronger attack. One of his victory poses his him asleep being carried by Pikmin and then being woken up when they drop him.
Louie uses White, Purple, and Rock Pikmin. In this game Purple Pikmin have the ability to latch on to opponents, attack more slowly, but are harder to shake off. Rock Pikmin on the other hand do not latch onto opponents. They behave as Purple Pikmin have in the past 2 installments, but they can barry opponents in Smash attacks and easily break shields. Another change is that Olimar uses the S.S. Dolphin in his Final Smash while Louie uses the Hocotate ship.
Rhythm Heaven Troupe - This character consists of the Rhythm Heaven Girl (A character that appears on all the art, soundtracks, and title screens and has been in every game to date) along with a monkey and a chorus kid and through the use of her move set, several other Rhythm Heaven characters. She conducts the Chorus Kids as her Final Smash.
I really don't get why people use Karate Joe or Chorus Kids over this option. This character is literally The Rhythm Heaven Girl. She appears in just as many games, in fact she appears more because she appears on art, soundtracks, and title screens. She's also the most common appearing species of the game. Which are young adult, skinny females.
Changes to Veterans:
- Mario's F.L.U.D.D. has been changed to the Galaxy Spin which has also been given to Luigi. Now Mario, Luigi, and Dr. Mario's moves are in harmony. However Dr. Mario's does not emit stars, it is still the same.
- Dr. Mario's Victory theme has been changed
- Peach's victory theme has been changed to her rescued theme from the end of Super Mario Bros.
- Donkey Kong is smaller and made to look like his actual current design in Donkey Kong games. Not that weird fur he has in Smash 4.
- Sheik uses her harp in one of her victory poses
- Fox has a different idle animation. His design is now the Star Fox Zero design (along with Falco & Wolf) and the landmaster is as well. The landmaster is also smaller.
- Sonic's side special has been changed to his boost attack from Sonic Rush
- Cloud speaks English
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Ura
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2014
- Messages
- 12,838
- Switch FC
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4/10 no Golden Sun
Well holy ****, look who it is~
Welcome back @SaturnGamer64 . Long time no time.
A handful of things to say about your roster.
But yeah, not bad. Some of your reasoning is a little wonky, but I take no issue with most of your newcomer selection.
Welcome back @SaturnGamer64 . Long time no time.
A handful of things to say about your roster.
- While it's perfectly fine to exclude characters that aren't currently prominent, it's very contradictory to then include Goroh, Louie, and Takamaru. Pichu too, but the veteran argument is one I don't really want to get into. Even more so since you also deliberately excluded "cult-classic" characters, of which at this point at least Goroh and Takamaru are.
- Acting as if this roster is a continuation of DLC yet cutting characters on the roster also is contradictory.
- As far as Goroh being a clone, that's your prerogative, but it's also selling the character short. It's like making Rosalina a clone, which you argue is different because of contrasting abilities and equipment. Even though Goroh has a sword. And Captain Falcon doesn't. You say that just because a character has something which can make them unique doesn't mean it's a good idea to actually make them unique. Well... in this hypothetical where you have infinite time and resources, why not? Not all rivals have to be partial clones of each other, look at Kirby and MK or Mario and Wario. The sword is the main facet of Goroh's character that differs him from a fighting perspective, and this is a fighting game.
- (also outside of cutscenes all F-Zero characters do is sit in a car - if Sakurai didn't elaborate on what happens outside of the gameplay, we wouldn't have Captain Falcon in the first place)
- It's also contradictory to say when characters share physical aspects and abilities with another they become partial clones... yet specify Dixie stands starkly different than Diddy. Your logic has a lot of contradictions in it.
- As far as Louie, just because he's slightly more elongated than Olimar doesn't make him a better choice than Alph. Just because the characters have the same proportions doesn't mean they have to have the same properties, look at Mario and Dr. Mario, or Ness and Lucas, or even, from what I can tell, your interpretation of Diddy and Dixie. Plus Alph just makes much more sense using Rock Pikmin than Louie.
- Toon Zelda isn't necessarily a bad choice, but contrary to your claims, she's really not all that popular any more. Due to WWHD she's not exactly irrelevant, but to say to the Zelda series lacks any further characters worthy of inclusion in Smash is highly debatable. They might not have any on the same level as Link, Zelda or Ganondorf, but neither did Mario with its main four. Like with that series, it's time to start dipping into the B-tier. Zelda is the next series in line for that anyway given its stature.
- Also people pick Chorus Kids over the Rhythm Troupe because of the leak.
- Lastly, making a 2016 Smash roster and cutting Corrin for a new FE rep really doesn't make much sense chronologically.
But yeah, not bad. Some of your reasoning is a little wonky, but I take no issue with most of your newcomer selection.
TheDarkKnightNoivern
Smash Master
I really like this one but I have a couple issues, for starters I don't think Robin should be cut, not only is he the best representation of his series (magic, breakable items etc), he also represents Awakening saving the series. I think he deserved that spot, I'd cut Roy instead honestly.
Toon Zelda over Tetra doesn't really make sense to me, I can't really see what she could bring to the table other than a smaller zelda.
Louie over one of the other captains doesn't make much sense to me as I could see Charlie or Britanny offering more variation compared to Olimar, you could just leave a spot open for a Pikmin 4 character too.
And Pichu...well, he's Pichu, I don't get why he's here
TheLastJinjo
Banned via Warnings
I didn't think Mewtwo or Lucas should have been cut. They are some of the most important characters of their series. But, sometimes really important characters get cut because of time constraints or just to bring in a more relevant character like Toon Link or Lucario.
Lucina is still there. I kept her because she is a descendant of Marth and because Awakening is so popular. But, a game "saving" a series is not a reason to add a character. It's not common knowledge among casual fans. That's more of a trivia.
I don't know if it's right to compare a fully fledged character to a clone, but I would say it makes more sense to cut the newest character in favor of the newest character, unless they have more of a significance like Ike & Lucario did. Imo Roy hold's more significance himself. He's more popular and he is part of a family that appears in multiple games.
Tetra was my first choice, but I already stated why I picked Toon Zelda.
That's such a gross oversimplification and you can apply it to any character you want. I don't see what Wolf could bring to the table besides a taller Fox, or I don't see what Roy could bring to the table besides a fiery Marth, or I don't see what Toon Link could bring to the table besides a smaller Link.
What?
Why was he there in Melee? Pikachu is the mascot of Pokemon. I think he deserves his own alternate character just like Mario, Link, and Pit. Pichu is a popular version of a popular character and he has support backing him. The point of this roster is to make the current one more complete. I wouldn't get too upset about characters like this.
It's hard to respond to such empty arguments and claims that are mostly based on nothing more than your objection to characters you don't want.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Except he isn't. Wolf and Fox are very different from each other. The only real simillarity between them is their Final Smash.
TheDarkKnightNoivern
Smash Master
Robin saving the series is a big deal, awakening was that big game that revitalized interest in the Fire Emblem franchise and he's one of the most popular characters from that game and the series in general, I don't know if we can really say Roy is more popular and I seriously doubt he is considering how much of a joke Fire Emblem fans seem to make out of him.
Wolf has his claws which allowed him to have a more unique moveset, Roy is literally just fire marth in smash and toon link is just smaller, faster link in smash anyway, I can't see Toon Zelda being any different
Pichu was in melee because he was a quick way to advertise gen 2, what reason is there for bringing him back now? Him being a vet and Mario and Link having clones isn't really enough reason to warrant the return of a character so many people hate.
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TheLastJinjo
Banned via Warnings
Thanks for proving the point I already made. I guess?
Good to see you again. Let's see how much our opinions have changed.
I don't think that's very logical. Takamaru and Ice Climbers are classic NES characters. It's different from Golden Sun which is neither a classic from the start of Nintendo's history nor has it been significant to Nintendo's history in recent years. (And being a Virtual Console title is not an argument against that. Jill Dozer is a virtual console title too.)
Also, last time I checked Pichu is still popular and appearing in Pokemon games.
Samurai Goroh is also not what I would consider a cult-classic character. He's is easily recognizable by anyone who knows what F-Zero is. He is important to F-Zero like Falco & Wolf are to Star Fox.
Characters weren't really cut as much as they were replaced. The newest character for the newest character. I don't see anything wrong with that in the case of Robin, Corrin, and Greninja. Unless Greninja reaches the height of popularity that Lucario reached.
I don't think comprehended what I said about clones. You're basically reversing it. You're saying Goroh shouldn't be a clone because the character he is a clone of can't perform HIS abilities rather than the other way around. Does that mean Dixie can't be a clone of Diddy because DIDDY can't use the ponytail twirl or that Dr. Mario can't be a clone of Mario because Mario can't throw pills? Or Ganondorf can't be a clone of Captain Falcon because Captain Falcon can't use magic or a sword?
It's not at all like making Rosalina a clone. Rosalina shares no abilities or relation to Peach as I have mentioned before. Samurai Goroh does.
It's not about how much time it would take to make a unique moveset based entirely off of a katana. It's about the fact that anyway you try to make a moveset based entirely off of a katana, it would bring nothing new. There's no point. It would be like trying to make Lucina or Chrom into their own characte. Or better yet, making a moveset based on Ganondorf's sword. There's no point.
Sword is not the equivalent of a potential move set.
Can Meta Knight use copy abilities or turn into a stone? Can Wario shoot fireballs or use a cape? What about Mario's Smash attacks? Can Wario do those? Does Wario share Mario's body structure? I also don't remember claiming that rivals have to be clones.
How?
My point was that he very rarely uses his sword in cutscenes. One of the only times he does is to hold it at Captain Falcon's neck.
What??? Now I'm just baffled! The only person contradicting himself is you? Dixie doesn't share physical aspects or abilities with Diddy? The fact that she has the same physical aspects as Diddy is the very reason why she's able to perform his abilities (the basic ones, not the specials). That's why Ganondorf was able to perfrom Captain Falcon's abilities. Dixie does have a gumball gun, she is capable of throwing banana peels or doing the monkey flip. Where did you get the impression that Dixie cannot do these things?
I believe I gave more reasons than that. Just for the record, I'm probably gonna stop responding if you keep intentionally oversimplifying my arguments.
Louie is Olimar's partner and has appeared in multiple games. And yeah, the fact that he is more elongnated IS a reason he is a better choice than Alph. [/quote]
Olimar already uses Wing Pikmin. I think it makes more sense for Alph to use the normal Pikmin than being restricted to the mutated ones.
Explain.
Bowser Jr and Rosalina are EXTREMELY important to Super Mario. Ghirahim & Midna are not.
Yeah, I guess it should have been Corrin insteadof a new FE character. I forgot they don't make a new Fire Emblem annually. Silly me.
Bias?
Thanks
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Luigi The President
Smash Hero
Sorry, but he did kinda say "don't kil me for this", was just playing along with the joke. No offense was intended.I can understand dropping the DLC newcomers and the clones, but... the Miis? Why them?
Even though this is a joke, let's not post stuff like that in this thread, or in any thread. Some people could still take this seriously.
Not going to comment on this roster besides Paper Mario is a nice addition as always.
Also, you can say "I don't get why Luigi the President uses Karate Joe or Chorus Kids over this option"
Actually I'll comment a bit. I don't know why you think Robin/Corrin would be removed since that would mean Ike would be removed as well. You do know Awakening literally saved Fire Emblem, right? Robin basically represents the new generation of FE. Corrin represents an extremely popular Fire Emblem game that both American and Japan audiences know, like Robin. Greninja represents an entire gen so I dunno what that logic is.
Robin saving the series isn't "trivia". Dude that's a BIG THING. Also as you said, Awakening is popular, don't keep Lucina in if you don't have Robin.
Roy is in NO WAY more popular, he is a complete joke in the fandom lmao. He also has a much less original moveset then Robin. And having descendants in other games doesn't matter; there are literally 6 Awakening characters in Fates.
I'm kinda conflicted over Toon Zelda's addition, don't really see why she's needed, I feel a better choice would be Impa or Tingle; Impa because she's appeared in many games by now and is a fan favorite as well as having a rich history in the franchise and Tingle because he is MASSIVE in Japan and even has his own game series.
But otherwise it's a pretty nice roster. I like many of the newcomers, like Elma and Paper Mario.
And finally, someone changes Sonic's boring specials.
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TheLastJinjo
Banned via Warnings
Why? Also I believe the series was saved by the game. Not by Robin.
Okay...Lucina is still in the game anyway.
The series in general? I don't know about that. And you can say the same for Mewtwo.
Your evidence?
That's my point.
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Well, besides comparing Waddle Dee to Yoshi & Pikachu. Well, no. I'd have to say when that one guy said Jody Summer was the most important F-Zero character, that was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
I love your ability to take something complicated and make it as simple as you possibly can. I mean, even if you were right then you should cut the 3 clones added in Smash 4.
Maybe we should give her a katana.
He's a popular form of a popular character. That's usually why clones such a Toon Link, Dark Pit, and Dr. Mario get into Smash. I could pretty much end my argument there.
Why?
Also if I were Sakurai I would not let whines and complaints dictate who I add to the roster. Especially when there are so many Pokemon fans that love Pichu and there are still fans who want him brought back. I would care more about the fans who want him than the fans who don't.
Autumn ♫
I'm terrible with these Custom Titles.
I fail to see how one would have time constraints in their roster. It seems like a completely unnecessary setback.
Luigi The President
Smash Hero
Yes, and Robin was the protagonist of the game.
Okay, but why Lucina over Robin?? She's even less important then Robin.
And yeah, the series in general indeed. There are very few popular lords besides Marth and Ike from what I see.
Look up the evidence for yourself. It's a pretty commonly known thing not many people in the fandom like Roy.
Why are you holding grudges and randomly bringing them back up for no reason? You're just mocking people in this thread by now alongside by acting your opinions are fact. Stop it. Same with the katana thing; believe it or not some people agree with opinions that are not yours.
Personally, I like Pichu, so I'm not going to debate this last part.
Been a while since I did one of these. 
I'm not against Takamaru, I think he'd be good addition. I'm just saying it conflicts with the rules you've set for yourself.
And for the record, Pichu was added to be a Pikachu clone, not because of his popularity. One clone might be chosen over another because of popularity, but the reason clones are added in the first place is to pad the roster.
To put it into perspective, excluding the first SNES game, Golden Sun has consistently outperformed F-Zero. Moreover, Golden Sun had its last title six years ago, while F-Zero hasn't had a game in what, twelve years? Plus, F-Zero already has a character, while GS has none. I'm not trying to argue that GS needs a character, I'm saying F-Zero really doesn't need another. It's not a very prominent series, Smash just makes people believe it is.
Sakurai materializes movesets out of thin air, are you're saying you can't come up with a moveset for a character who wields a new type of sword in an unorthodox matter such as Goroh?
Obviously characters can be clones, but since when is that the goal, other than at the tail end of development?
For that matter, Bowser Jr. could've easily been a Bowser semi-clone.
If so, why? Without limits like budget or time, why make a clone when you could make a unique character?
And btw Sakurai did think Wario could be a Mario clone, but also thought he deserved better than a recycled moveset, so he was saved for Brawl.
Sakurai even has Goroh using his sword as the AT, hun. He's not running around Goroh Punching people.
I think the better question is, why would Goroh be a Falcon semi-clone in the first place? They don't share the same proportions or abilities (other than being drivers), and have shown to have different methods of fighting and weapons of choice.
Also, saying she's able to perform Diddy's basic abilities but not his specials, yet also saying she doesn't share Diddy's basic moves, only three of his four specials is just... the height of contradiction.
And no, it's not, considering both can be made to exist slightly differently than Olimar, elongated or not. Alph has more prevalence as of late, Alph was the one to use Rock Pikmin, not Louie, and Alph was a protagonist, Louie was only ever a deuteragonist.
Now the same can be said for Ghirahim and Midna with their one important game, however not Impa, who is a consistent, fairly important force in the Zelda series, and is steadily gaining popularity. I'd say she's to Zelda what Toad and Yoshi are to Mario.
Yes but when Sakurai added the ICs he didn't also have an addendum prohibiting the inclusion of non-current non-cult-classic characters like you do. Now the inclusion, classic or not, conflicts with your other rules.
I'm not against Takamaru, I think he'd be good addition. I'm just saying it conflicts with the rules you've set for yourself.
But he's not really though... there are lots of more popular Pokemon that also still appear in Pokemon games. Being more popular than YL isn't some testament to the characters' popularity, they're still by far the least popular veteran characters.
And for the record, Pichu was added to be a Pikachu clone, not because of his popularity. One clone might be chosen over another because of popularity, but the reason clones are added in the first place is to pad the roster.
F-Zero is a cult classic franchise, so yeah, a supporting character from a largely defunct series is not exactly something with mainstream appeal.
To put it into perspective, excluding the first SNES game, Golden Sun has consistently outperformed F-Zero. Moreover, Golden Sun had its last title six years ago, while F-Zero hasn't had a game in what, twelve years? Plus, F-Zero already has a character, while GS has none. I'm not trying to argue that GS needs a character, I'm saying F-Zero really doesn't need another. It's not a very prominent series, Smash just makes people believe it is.
However you're justifying it semantically, if you want to position your roster as some "addition" to the existing SSB4 roster, it still doesn't make much sense to cut characters. For an actual Smash 5 years down the line, sure, but in a game that presumably would re-use the existing assets and takes place two years after release... not so much.
I think with the mentality of "clone until proven unique", you're the one reversing it. That's basically like saying guilty until proven innocent. Sakurai doesn't go into a game thinking "how can I make these newcomers similar to existing characters?" he goes in trying to implement unique additions, then adds the clones and semi-clones as afterthoughts. There's an exception here and there, but what I'm saying is Goroh has enough at his disposal to be completely unique, and thinking otherwise is just a lack of creativity.
Sakurai materializes movesets out of thin air, are you're saying you can't come up with a moveset for a character who wields a new type of sword in an unorthodox matter such as Goroh?
Obviously characters can be clones, but since when is that the goal, other than at the tail end of development?
Rosalina could've easily been a Peach semi-clone. Luma instead of Toad, starbits instead of turnips, same side special but with a space effect. The recovery and forward Smash might've been different, but that's still definitely semi-clone territory. Plus their proportions are almost identical even though Rosalina is sized up sometimes.
For that matter, Bowser Jr. could've easily been a Bowser semi-clone.
No, Lucina and Chrom wield the same swords in the same way as characters already on the roster, that's why making them unique would prove more of a challenge. Goroh wields a new sword in a new way, and could obviously be made unique. Go dig up the Goroh thread, wherever it is, and see the movesets for yourself.
If they could, would you suggest they should be clones even when they have more than enough to make them unique?
If so, why? Without limits like budget or time, why make a clone when you could make a unique character?
And btw Sakurai did think Wario could be a Mario clone, but also thought he deserved better than a recycled moveset, so he was saved for Brawl.
Because when Goroh fights he uses a sword and when Captain Falcon fights he doesn't. And considering this is a fighting game, makes sense Goroh would retain his method of combat.
Sakurai even has Goroh using his sword as the AT, hun. He's not running around Goroh Punching people.
He also uses his sword to sabotage the other racer in his profile video. He never actually fights in the cutscenes at all, but he still uses his katana more than Captain Falcon does anything related to his moveset.
I think the better question is, why would Goroh be a Falcon semi-clone in the first place? They don't share the same proportions or abilities (other than being drivers), and have shown to have different methods of fighting and weapons of choice.
Where did you get the impression I said Dixie couldn't do these things? My exact point is that Dixie can do these things which set her apart even though she physically is very similar to Diddy and theoretically could employ the same abilities.
Also, saying she's able to perform Diddy's basic abilities but not his specials, yet also saying she doesn't share Diddy's basic moves, only three of his four specials is just... the height of contradiction.
Old games. Which you are not giving as much importance as current prevalence, remember? And Louie being lethargic doesn't mean Alph's dash attack or tilts couldn't be different than Olimar's as well. The idles and taunts too, obviously.
And no, it's not, considering both can be made to exist slightly differently than Olimar, elongated or not. Alph has more prevalence as of late, Alph was the one to use Rock Pikmin, not Louie, and Alph was a protagonist, Louie was only ever a deuteragonist.
First of all, why, and second of all, he doesn't have to be restricted. Why not make it so both can use the normal Pikmin but Olimar gets the white and purple and Alph gets the rock? You could even further differentiate them by giving Olimar his old recovery move and Alph the winged Pikmin.
Seems rather self-explanatory. Toon Zelda isn't as popular as she used to be. And it doesn't seem like she's going to show up any time soon again.
Nah, Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser are extremely important to Super Mario. Toad and Yoshi are pretty important to Super Mario. Bowser Jr and Rosalina are extremely important to Sunshine and Galaxy respectively. All other times they mostly exist for filler or fluff.
Now the same can be said for Ghirahim and Midna with their one important game, however not Impa, who is a consistent, fairly important force in the Zelda series, and is steadily gaining popularity. I'd say she's to Zelda what Toad and Yoshi are to Mario.
Well it's either bias or misunderstanding over the scale of F-Zero to include a supporting character from a series which hasn't received a title in over a decade and then choose to semi-clone them when they're capable of being unique, especially when you say no cult-classics or currently prominent series. Or series additions for the sake of series additions.
Np.
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Depressed Gengar
Hana Is Best Girl
Or it's just to make the roster somewhat realistic. Some people do have that preference.
TheDarkKnightNoivern
Smash Master
Are you really trying to deny that Roy and Toon Link are very slight variations on their original characters because that's exactly what they are. I see no real reason for cutting Roy but keeping Robin, I just don't get it, Robin's more unique, Robin's arguably more popular and comes from a more popular game, Robin better represents the series, honestly I could go on
Pichu isn't really popular, at least not anymore, that popularity died off long ago, once again, why now? Why now when there's hundreds more popular pokemon, that are important, that are relevant that could be added?
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The first stupid thing I've ever seen about Samurai Goroh being a semi-clone of Falcon. Um...what drugs have you been taking lately, because I want some of that.
Alright, all jokes aside...I really don't see the point of why Goroh needs to be a semi-clone to begin with. Dude's got a sword he can use. That's more unique than Falcon's punching/kicking/Knee of Justice moveset. Plus Goroh sharing the exact same Final Smash as Falcon? Dude...let's be serious here: Goroh using his katana is a hell of an interesting Final Smash as long as they don't make it too similar to what Link and Ike has. I do feel that the katana makes an interesting moveset as long as they do it right. Falco and Luigi broke out from being clones to their own characters, even if they share some moves. The katana is a completely different sword comparing to a magic sword that Robin and Corrin has and a regular sword by other swordsmen.
Alright, I can understand if you got a beef towards Robin and Corrin, but why cut Greninja? You're cutting a recent generation Pokemon and that's not a good thing. Remember when everyone kept saying that Lucario was gonna get replaced by Zoroark because "mah recent Pokemon"? Yeah...Lucario broke that ridiculous rumor after he was confirmed and same for Ike. Not to mention that yes, Robin is indeed more popular than Lucina and Awakening saved the series. Awakening pretty much deserved the rep from that game and I'm happy that Lucina made it alongside Robin. If i were to cut one, it would be Lucina since Robin is the main character plus has a unique moveset over another clone (I hate to admit it, but...rather keep the game interesting)
Greninja is pretty popular in the competitive field as well as one of Ash's Pokemon in the anime with an form called Ash-Greninja. I don't see Greninja getting the cut anytime soon.
Also 2/10 for keeping Bayonetta but cutting Greninja and no Issac
That's his thing: he refuses to accept anyone's opinion and believes that his opinion means everything, hence why he always gets into arguments and constant banning around here. Classic SaturnGamer
Now that I'm thinking about it, I'd want to bring up an old roster I recently made and feel I could do some tweaking, just not sure where.
Obviously, my roster has three characters cut: Bayonetta, Cloud, Doctor Mario. Cloud is one I'm iffy on since he could end up returning. The other two are just personal preferences.
Newcomers:
Toad
2nd Mario Rep/New IP
Dixie Kong
Impa
Midna
Chibi-Robo
Alph (breaking out of the clone slot, semi-clone of Olimar with different Pikmins)
Takamaru
Bandanna Dee (because spears to stop the ******** about the sword characters)
New IP/Elma from Xenoblade
Chorus Men
Mach Rider
New Pokemon 7th/8th Gen
Dillon
Prince Sable ( @BluePikmin made me think he would be an excellent character for this game)
New Fire Emblem character (just to troll the fans)
Isabelle
Inklings (boy/girl option just like Robin, Villager, WFT, and Corrin)
The ? between Ryu and Ridley in the DLC section can go either way. It can bring back a former Smash veteran (Snake, Squirtle, Cloud, etc) or include a brand new fighter. I'm placing that there because I'm not sure how that will work out, so feel free to throw in what you think would be interesting just to stir the pot a little.
The only reason I have a decent amount of characters on the DLC list is how well the DLC was for Sm4sh. It is possible they may end up going the same way they did. If not, I don't mind cutting half of those DLC fighters and move them to the main roster instead.
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The third party characters seem kind of samey. I like how Brawl and (after DLC) Smash 4 had a diverse line-up, where it wasn't just cartoony mascot characters who were primarily known for platformers; it gave it a broader appeal, and introduced some Nintendo fans to series that they wouldn't normally try. Removing Cloud and Bayonetta seems odd, considering that you're basically saying the Smash Ballot was meaningless by removing the ballot winner, and Cloud is to RPGs what Ryu is to fighting games - when you think of a character from those genres, those two are going to come to mind pretty quickly.
The amount of question marks on the roster seems odd, especially since some of those characters (a next-gen Pokemon or Fire Emblem character, for example) don't even exist yet, so we don't even know if what they come up with could work for Smash (Pokemon gen. 5 must not have had much, or else they wouldn't have gone with a Pokemon that only existed as concept art). It would be nice if you gave choices for who a second Mario character would be, just to narrow it down.
As for the choice between a new IP or Elma, I'd say Elma makes more sense; while I haven't finished Xenoblade Chronicles X, I've read that it leaves the possibility of a sequel open, so it seems like her story is going to continue.
The DLC newcomers, particularly for the Nintendo characters, seems like a good list, and I like that Alph was branched out into his own character. (it seems to me like it would have made more sense to do that to him as opposed to Dark Pit) I find it odd that the brand new series on the main roster seem to be fairly random (Chibi-Robo, Chorus Kids, Mach Rider, Prince Sable), while characters with a significant amount of demand (Isaac, Ridley, K. Rool) are in the DLC list instead, but I suppose those would be more likely to sell separate from the main game.
Toad, Dixie, Impa, and Midna are all good choices for their series, as are Isabelle and Waddle Dee. Takamaru seems like a good choice for a retro character, and Dillon could be interesting, though I'm not familiar with his games.
The amount of question marks on the roster seems odd, especially since some of those characters (a next-gen Pokemon or Fire Emblem character, for example) don't even exist yet, so we don't even know if what they come up with could work for Smash (Pokemon gen. 5 must not have had much, or else they wouldn't have gone with a Pokemon that only existed as concept art). It would be nice if you gave choices for who a second Mario character would be, just to narrow it down.
As for the choice between a new IP or Elma, I'd say Elma makes more sense; while I haven't finished Xenoblade Chronicles X, I've read that it leaves the possibility of a sequel open, so it seems like her story is going to continue.
The DLC newcomers, particularly for the Nintendo characters, seems like a good list, and I like that Alph was branched out into his own character. (it seems to me like it would have made more sense to do that to him as opposed to Dark Pit) I find it odd that the brand new series on the main roster seem to be fairly random (Chibi-Robo, Chorus Kids, Mach Rider, Prince Sable), while characters with a significant amount of demand (Isaac, Ridley, K. Rool) are in the DLC list instead, but I suppose those would be more likely to sell separate from the main game.
Toad, Dixie, Impa, and Midna are all good choices for their series, as are Isabelle and Waddle Dee. Takamaru seems like a good choice for a retro character, and Dillon could be interesting, though I'm not familiar with his games.
TheLastJinjo
Banned via Warnings
I forgot to present this in the original post, but here is the starters version of the roster I had previously posted:
This is the full version with all characters unlocked:
I will do my best to respond to all my critiques, but I do not visit Smashboards as often as I use to and I've gotten 7 notifications in my inbox just this morning. So if you've said something I've addressed before even to someone else, I'm not going to reply.
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Tons of characters aren't "needed". The point of this roster was to simply expand the old one. As if it were re-released as a launch title for NX. That's why a lot of the additions are newcomers based on existing characters. Almost like Melee, but with much more variation. And yet, despite the addition of Inkling, Elma, Paper Mario, King K. Rool, Waluigi. Tons of unique characters as well as highly requested ones. "I don't see why we need that character."
Here's a quote from Sakurai that I think fits my frustration with this constant criticism:
"This is like a free dessert after a luxurious meal that was prepared free of charge. In a restaurant with this type of service, I don’t think there’s anybody who would say, “Change this to a meat dish!!”"
I think fans should be grateful that characters they love who would not get a chance to get in otherwise are added in this roster
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Don't act like this is a me issue. This is extremely common among Smash fans. And you have every right to complain that I'm the same. But, even now Smash fans are still arguing that Ridley's size is irrelevant. Even after over 20 clones have arisen from the exact same criteria, they refuse to admit there's a pattern and that anytime a character has some kind of unique weapon, there's no way they'll become a clone. Despite CLEAR evidence to the contrary. And wouldn't you know it, they act like it's just common knowledge. They act like their "opinion" is fact. And whatever. Act however you want. I don't care if you wanna mock people, or bring up old dirt, snarkily badmouth people in quotes to other users, or act like people's opinions are just so OBVIOUSLY wrong. It doesn't bother me. But, don't come back and complain about me responding to you in the exact way that you act. @MahBoi2016
CrusherMania1592
TheDarkKnightNoivern
The reason I'm so frustrated is because of this constant notion that moves are just always more important than characters. A character is NOTHING if they don't have their own move set. Even when those characters are a slight minority.
This is the full version with all characters unlocked:
I will do my best to respond to all my critiques, but I do not visit Smashboards as often as I use to and I've gotten 7 notifications in my inbox just this morning. So if you've said something I've addressed before even to someone else, I'm not going to reply.
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Um...what?
And?
So do Corrin & Lucina
That is true.
What logic? Are you saying Greninja represents a Pokemon game and therefore shouldn't be removed? What kind of logic is that?
Just because something is "A BIG THING" doesn't mean it's common knowledge or a reason to add a character. Explain why Intelligent System's plan to stop making Fire Emblem games if Awakening didn't sell is a reason to keep Robin or how it's common knowledge among all Nintendo/Fire Emblem fans. You keep saying "Awakening saved the series" but, you never explain why that's a reason to keep a character. You're entire argument falls apart on the basis that as long as a character deserves to be in Super Smash Bros that they will never get cut. The point of cutting characters is not "Let's cut this character because they're not important." It's "Okay, we have to make some cuts. Let's make a priority list and see which characters out of all the characters on the roster is are the least necessary." When you compare Robin & Greninja to characters like Duck Hunt, Rosalina, Bowser Jr., Little Mac, Shulk, Pac-Man. They are not nearly as significant and/or popular among the Nintendo audience. They are the flavor of the month characters. That doesn't make them unimportant. It just makes them LESS important than the characters that were kept. Even Lucas who revived the Mother series after almost a decade, who was the only other Mother character, and who was extremely popular was cut. Was it because he didn't matter? No. It was because A Japan Only character that was half a decade old did not hold up to the characters that were added and left in. Lucas was probably the hardest cut next to Mewtwo.
Why?
And you base this off of what exactly? From what I understand he was so popular that he returned as DLC. He's even the face of the Miiverse board. He's literally one of the most popular Smash characters.
And Dr. Mario has a less original move set than Wolf
According to you. Oh, but a game saving a series warrants a permanent inclusion of a character from that series. That doesn't need an explanation.
Roy's parents are literally the main characters of the Fire Emblem game that came right after sword of seals
What a great argument. I don't see why Wolf is needed. I don't see why Dr. Mario is needed. I'm just gonna declare characters unnecessary and hope the fact that they either share a move set or are based off of an existing character makes that self evident and disregard all of their merits as actual characters.
Tons of characters aren't "needed". The point of this roster was to simply expand the old one. As if it were re-released as a launch title for NX. That's why a lot of the additions are newcomers based on existing characters. Almost like Melee, but with much more variation. And yet, despite the addition of Inkling, Elma, Paper Mario, King K. Rool, Waluigi. Tons of unique characters as well as highly requested ones. "I don't see why we need that character."
Here's a quote from Sakurai that I think fits my frustration with this constant criticism:
"This is like a free dessert after a luxurious meal that was prepared free of charge. In a restaurant with this type of service, I don’t think there’s anybody who would say, “Change this to a meat dish!!”"
I think fans should be grateful that characters they love who would not get a chance to get in otherwise are added in this roster
Impa is not a character I feel you could put on the cover of Smash bros and your average Nintendo fan would be like "Oh, yeah it's Impa! My favorit Nintendo character." nor is she a classic one like Ice Climbers or Little Mac. But, I can see where you're coming from. I don't think that's a bad decision, but I think Toon Zelda would a better, more recognizable character with a lot more support and would (imo) satisfy fans in the end.There's a lot of characters Smash fans complain about prior to their inclusion that do well anyway. It's not just about what the Smash fans want. It's about what an average Nintendo fan will enjoy. And I think Toon Zelda wins that contest.
Well, thank you. I had hoped it would be an improvement from the roster's I made prior to Smash 4's release.
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If you want to be smart aleck. I don't care. If you want to be demonstrably ignorant on how something works. Whatever. Don't be both at the same time.
No, no. Do go on. Tell me some more jokes about how people you disagree with are on drugs.
What kind of argument is that?
Hold, on. Are you trolling? You sound someone who is doing a crude impersonation of your own logic.
Nnnnno not really. Again, what kind of argument is that? Dude, Toon Link's got his own items. That's why more unique! t's more unique. It's more unique. I can just boldly apply that to any character I want.
I think it's a little too late to start being serious. Especially after that statement.
At this point I don't really take what you consider to be interesting very seriously. Especially after that. You're answer to everything is basically. Sword = interesting. Even his Final Smash. Apparently Samurai Goroh's sword is more important to him than the vehicle he races in. I don't know how you figured that.
Vague statement.
And yet you're complaining about Samurai Goroh doing the same thing. Even when he uses his sword for most of his tilts, his rapid a attack, and his side special. No, his move set has to be absolutely nothing but his sword. Even his Final Smash for petesake!
Sakurai didn't cut Lucas & Mewtwo because he had a beef with them. Characters have either been cut due to time constraints or in favor of the newest character of their series.
Why? I guess by your logic though, there's never a good reason to cut ANY character. That is until they actually get cut.
That's because people were to stupid to realize how popular Lucario had become and the fact that Ike is one of the few characters to appear as the main character in multiple installments.
So what?
It's a little more complicated than that.Complaining that a fully fledged character was cut over a clone is like complaining that someone has time to build a table, but they don't have time to build a house.
Bayonetta is one of the most requested characters ever.
No, that's pretty much you
You're the one making the claim. Why don't you provide the evidence.
You wanna be able to mock people and act like your arguments are self evident, but you're gonna complain when someone else does it? That's not a good motto have on the internet. The thing is, a lot of times things are just self evident. So yeah, I'm gonna act pretty frustrated when it needs to be carefully explained to multiple people. Maybe I act like things are painfully obvious, because they're painfully obvious. Because they need to be explained to people who will not accept anything outside the characters they want.
Don't act like this is a me issue. This is extremely common among Smash fans. And you have every right to complain that I'm the same. But, even now Smash fans are still arguing that Ridley's size is irrelevant. Even after over 20 clones have arisen from the exact same criteria, they refuse to admit there's a pattern and that anytime a character has some kind of unique weapon, there's no way they'll become a clone. Despite CLEAR evidence to the contrary. And wouldn't you know it, they act like it's just common knowledge. They act like their "opinion" is fact. And whatever. Act however you want. I don't care if you wanna mock people, or bring up old dirt, snarkily badmouth people in quotes to other users, or act like people's opinions are just so OBVIOUSLY wrong. It doesn't bother me. But, don't come back and complain about me responding to you in the exact way that you act. @MahBoi2016
CrusherMania1592
TheDarkKnightNoivern
And here's a perfect example. I shouldn't have to carefully explain in detail every single difference between these characters and their counterparts because you want to find the simplest way to describe a character so that they sound more useless than they actually are. So yes, of course I'm going to act frustrated.
I disagree entirely and find that notion to lack any support. Any Pokemon fan can tell you who Pichu is and several can tell you that they adore him. Probably because he's the baby version of Pikachu for crying out loud. He even had his own minor spin off show. Pichu Bros.
This is the second time I've had to explain the concept of how a clone character is not equivalent to the man hours required for a new character. And if you want my reasoning for Pichu, go back and read my posts because it's been stated several times and yet despite responding to your question? "Why Pichu?" you still seem to keep asking that question. It's a little irritating.
The reason I'm so frustrated is because of this constant notion that moves are just always more important than characters. A character is NOTHING if they don't have their own move set. Even when those characters are a slight minority.
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Luigi The President
Smash Hero
I don't think we're gonna reach a conclusion here really. You stick to your opinions, and that is good, but I do as well, very often, and neither of us will change a lot of the opinions we've gone over. So overall, despite my problems with your roster, it's good for what it is.I forgot to present this in the original post, but here is the starters version of the roster I had previously posted:
View attachment 100348
This is the full version with all characters unlocked:
I will do my best to respond to all my critiques, but I do not visit Smashboards as often as I use to and I've gotten 7 notifications in my inbox just this morning. So if you've said something I've addressed before even to someone else, I'm not going to reply.
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Um...what?
And?
So do Corrin & Lucina
That is true.
What logic? Are you saying Greninja represents a Pokemon game and therefore shouldn't be removed? What kind of logic is that?
Just because something is "A BIG THING" doesn't mean it's common knowledge or a reason to add a character. Explain why Intelligent System's plan to stop making Fire Emblem games if Awakening didn't sell is a reason to keep Robin or how it's common knowledge among all Nintendo/Fire Emblem fans. You keep saying "Awakening saved the series" but, you never explain why that's a reason to keep a character. You're entire argument falls apart on the basis that as long as a character deserves to be in Super Smash Bros that they will never get cut. The point of cutting characters is not "Let's cut this character because they're not important." It's "Okay, we have to make some cuts. Let's make a priority list and see which characters out of all the characters on the roster is are the least necessary." When you compare Robin & Greninja to characters like Duck Hunt, Rosalina, Bowser Jr., Little Mac, Shulk, Pac-Man. They are not nearly as significant and/or popular among the Nintendo audience. They are the flavor of the month characters. That doesn't make them unimportant. It just makes them LESS important than the characters that were kept. Even Lucas who revived the Mother series after almost a decade, who was the only other Mother character, and who was extremely popular was cut. Was it because he didn't matter? No. It was because A Japan Only character that was half a decade old did not hold up to the characters that were added and left in. Lucas was probably the hardest cut next to Mewtwo.
Why?
And you base this off of what exactly? From what I understand he was so popular that he returned as DLC. He's even the face of the Miiverse board. He's literally one of the most popular Smash characters.
And Dr. Mario has a less original move set than Wolf
According to you. Oh, but a game saving a series warrants a permanent inclusion of a character from that series. That doesn't need an explanation.
Roy's parents are literally the main characters of the Fire Emblem game that came right after sword of seals
What a great argument. I don't see why Wolf is needed. I don't see why Dr. Mario is needed. I'm just gonna declare characters unnecessary and hope the fact that they either share a move set or are based off of an existing character makes that self evident and disregard all of their merits as actual characters.
Tons of characters aren't "needed". The point of this roster was to simply expand the old one. As if it were re-released as a launch title for NX. That's why a lot of the additions are newcomers based on existing characters. Almost like Melee, but with much more variation. And yet, despite the addition of Inkling, Elma, Paper Mario, King K. Rool, Waluigi. Tons of unique characters as well as highly requested ones. "I don't see why we need that character."
Here's a quote from Sakurai that I think fits my frustration with this constant criticism:
"This is like a free dessert after a luxurious meal that was prepared free of charge. In a restaurant with this type of service, I don’t think there’s anybody who would say, “Change this to a meat dish!!”"
I think fans should be grateful that characters they love who would not get a chance to get in otherwise are added in this roster
Impa is not a character I feel you could put on the cover of Smash bros and your average Nintendo fan would be like "Oh, yeah it's Impa! My favorit Nintendo character." nor is she a classic one like Ice Climbers or Little Mac. But, I can see where you're coming from. I don't think that's a bad decision, but I think Toon Zelda would a better, more recognizable character with a lot more support and would (imo) satisfy fans in the end.There's a lot of characters Smash fans complain about prior to their inclusion that do well anyway. It's not just about what the Smash fans want. It's about what an average Nintendo fan will enjoy. And I think Toon Zelda wins that contest.
Well, thank you. I had hoped it would be an improvement from the roster's I made prior to Smash 4's release.
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If you want to be smart aleck. I don't care. If you want to be demonstrably ignorant on how something works. Whatever. Don't be both at the same time.
No, no. Do go on. Tell me some more jokes about how people you disagree with are on drugs.
What kind of argument is that?
Hold, on. Are you trolling? You sound someone who is doing a crude impersonation of your own logic.
Nnnnno not really. Again, what kind of argument is that? Dude, Toon Link's got his own items. That's why more unique! t's more unique. It's more unique. I can just boldly apply that to any character I want.
I think it's a little too late to start being serious. Especially after that statement.
At this point I don't really take what you consider to be interesting very seriously. Especially after that. You're answer to everything is basically. Sword = interesting. Even his Final Smash. Apparently Samurai Goroh's sword is more important to him than the vehicle he races in. I don't know how you figured that.
Vague statement.
And yet you're complaining about Samurai Goroh doing the same thing. Even when he uses his sword for most of his tilts, his rapid a attack, and his side special. No, his move set has to be absolutely nothing but his sword. Even his Final Smash for petesake!
Sakurai didn't cut Lucas & Mewtwo because he had a beef with them. Characters have either been cut due to time constraints or in favor of the newest character of their series.
Why? I guess by your logic though, there's never a good reason to cut ANY character. That is until they actually get cut.
That's because people were to stupid to realize how popular Lucario had become and the fact that Ike is one of the few characters to appear as the main character in multiple installments.
So what?
It's a little more complicated than that.Complaining that a fully fledged character was cut over a clone is like complaining that someone has time to build a table, but they don't have time to build a house.
Bayonetta is one of the most requested characters ever.
No, that's pretty much you
You're the one making the claim. Why don't you provide the evidence.
You wanna be able to mock people and act like your arguments are self evident, but you're gonna complain when someone else does it? That's not a good motto have on the internet. The thing is, a lot of times things are just self evident. So yeah, I'm gonna act pretty frustrated when it needs to be carefully explained to multiple people. Maybe I act like things are painfully obvious, because they're painfully obvious. Because they need to be explained to people who will not accept anything outside the characters they want.
Don't act like this is a me issue. This is extremely common among Smash fans. And you have every right to complain that I'm the same. But, even now Smash fans are still arguing that Ridley's size is irrelevant. Even after over 20 clones have arisen from the exact same criteria, they refuse to admit there's a pattern and that anytime a character has some kind of unique weapon, there's no way they'll become a clone. Despite CLEAR evidence to the contrary. And wouldn't you know it, they act like it's just common knowledge. They act like their "opinion" is fact. And whatever. Act however you want. I don't care if you wanna mock people, or bring up old dirt, snarkily badmouth people in quotes to other users, or act like people's opinions are just so OBVIOUSLY wrong. It doesn't bother me. But, don't come back and complain about me responding to you in the exact way that you act. @MahBoi2016
And here's a perfect example. I shouldn't have to carefully explain in detail every single difference between these characters and their counterparts because you want to find the simplest way to describe a character so that they sound more useless than they actually are. So yes, of course I'm going to act frustrated.
I disagree entirely and find that notion to lack any support. Any Pokemon fan can tell you who Pichu is and several can tell you that they adore him. Probably because he's the baby version of Pikachu for crying out loud. He even had his own minor spin off show. Pichu Bros.
This is the second time I've had to explain the concept of how a clone character is not equivalent to the man hours required for a new character. And if you want my reasoning for Pichu, go back and read my posts because it's been stated several times and yet despite responding to your question? "Why Pichu?" you still seem to keep asking that question. It's a little irritating.
The reason I'm so frustrated is because of this constant notion that moves are just always more important than characters. A character is NOTHING if they don't have their own move set. Even when those characters are a slight minority.
Anyways..
Roster Maker frustrates me. Hasn't been updated in a year by now, and there's so many new characters I need to add to my roster. Has anyone made an unofficial new version yet before I start work on my new roster?
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I'll just focus on the complete roster. I've got no problem with the top row - the additions seem good, and there are no cuts from what I can see. I find it weird that Waluigi would be considered a Wario character when he (strangely - you'd think they could include him in one) hasn't appeared in the Wario Land or Wario Ware games, but he seems like he'd be entertaining to play as. Paper Mario seems different enough from Mario, and Dixie and K. Rool are great choices.
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Second row seems kind of odd. You have any number of Zelda characters to choose from, and the only one you add is Toon Zelda, who seems like she'd just be a shorter, faster version of Zelda much like Toon Link. Off the top of my head, Impa, Skull Kid, Midna, Ghirahim, and Vaati are all popular choices with a lot of material to work with, so going with Toon Zelda (not even Tetra) over them seems like a strange choice to me.
No new Metroid character is strange (the series has been ignored in Smash enough as is; not sure why you would want to ignore it further), as is removing Robin. It seems strange that, in your ideal roster, you would remove a completely unique character but keep three separate characters from the same series who are almost identical in terms of moves. If you're going to remove a Fire Emblem character, it seems like Roy or Lucina would be more expendable. (probably not both, since not everybody likes Marth's tipper-heavy style of gameplay, but one of them could be removed instead of Robin)
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For the third row, I believe in your other posts, you said that Samurai Goroh would be a semi-clone of Captain Falcon, which doesn't seem to make much sense. Even if Ganondorf was given a unique movelist (which leaves no heavier, slower version of Falcon that current Ganondorf players would have become used to), Samurai Goroh seems like a strange choice to fill that role, given that he already has an established fighting style (both in his name and in his assist trophy) that is nothing like Falcon's.
The Pokemon characters seem to be really heavily weighted towards gen. 1, though I suppose that's inevitable, so it's not an issue. Not sure why Greninja was cut; I haven't followed Pokemon for a while, but he seems pretty popular.
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Fourth row - Takamaru seems like a good choice. I like that you brought the Ice Climbers back; as far as Brawl veterans go, Snake seems to be the biggest/most noteworthy absence, but that's about it. Not sure how you intend for Louie to fight, so you might need to explain that one - if he'd be an Olimar clone, one of the Pikmin 3 captains seem like a more reasonable alternative seeing as they'd actually have different Pikmin, but maybe you intend for him to be a unique character.
Elma and Inkling are good additions. I don't follow Rhythm Heaven, so I have no idea what those characters can do or why they should be in over something like Isaac from Golden Sun, or Wonder Red from the Wonderful 101, or someone like that who seems like a natural fit for a fighting game, but then again, the same thing could be said about the Wii Fit Trainer or Mr. Game & Watch.
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Not many problems with the bottom row; like I said, Snake's absence seems odd, and it's strange that there aren't any new third party characters, but I like that you didn't cut the third party characters that we do have. I also like that you're giving the clone characters a second chance; at the moment, Dark Pit and Lucina are probably the laziest clones in Smash Bros. (though at least Lucina has a completely different model), but with a second game, they could be tweaked into something more unique like Falco was.
Pichu seems like a strange inclusion - as far as the cut Melee veterans go, he's probably got the least demand (even now, which is really saying something), and he doesn't even seem to be popular within the context of his own series, unlike Lucina and Dark Pit.
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BluePikmin11
Akko is my dear daughter!
Hi @SaturnGamer64, I got one quick question for you because I'm curious.
What was your first time reaction to Bayonetta?
I know most people had the iconic mindset in their heads, but did you?
What was your first time reaction to Bayonetta?
I know most people had the iconic mindset in their heads, but did you?
TheLastJinjo
Banned via Warnings
My first reaction was me with the right side of my face fully supported by my right palm smiling and going "Really". I was pretty upset that there was ANOTHER third party character and that it was the most voted for one. But, I warmed up to it by the time the Nintendo Direct was over.
I just wanted it to be King K. Rool or Isaac or someone that Smash fans have been begging for for years. I didn't care who it was as long as it made other people happy.
I just wanted it to be King K. Rool or Isaac or someone that Smash fans have been begging for for years. I didn't care who it was as long as it made other people happy.
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