If you were in charge of roster picking for an upcoming Smash!!

[TheLastJinjo]

But he's not really though... there are lots of more popular Pokemon that also still appear in Pokemon games. Being more popular than YL isn't some testament to the characters' popularity, they're still by far the least popular veteran characters.

It's not really just about him being popular. It's the fact that the character he is based on is so popular. Pikachu is arguably the most popular Pokemon of all. If not he's still the mascot. Pichu is a popular version of a popular character. That is in my opinion why he merits an inclusion.

Despite contrary belief, adding clones or alternate versions of characters is diverse. Instead of just constantly introducing fans to new characters, it is a compliment to give attention to the current ones that they love so much and, in the case of a lot of characters, expanding the move sets they are familiar with with unique twists and different play styles.

Adding Dr. Mario is a compliment to Mario fans. Adding Dark Pit is a compliment to Pit fans. And it's not even at the expense of other characters. In other words:

“This is like a free dessert after a luxurious meal that was prepared free of charge. In a restaurant with this type of service, I don’t think there’s anybody who would say, ‘Change this to a meat dish!!'”

And in the case of more unique characters like Falco and Ganondorf. It's nice to have a moveset that people have become accustomed to from a character they love and seeing new and interesting changes to it. But, I guess a majority of Smash fans have to look at everything through their grumpy glasses and say "Nope. Not unique = bad. That's how games work. It's as simple as that. There's nothing else to it. I'm such an intellectual critic."

I'm not referring to you though.

And for the record, Pichu was added to be a Pikachu clone, not because of his popularity. One clone might be chosen over another because of popularity, but the reason clones are added in the first place is to pad the roster.

I'm aware of that. But, Pichu still holds signifcance in Pokemon's history. And that's just aside from him being the baby version of the mascot.

And I think it's also noteworthy to add that Pichu DOES support to bring him back compared. More than Young Link.

F-Zero is a cult classic franchise, so yeah, a supporting character from a largely defunct series is not exactly something with mainstream appeal.

To put it into perspective, excluding the first SNES game, Golden Sun has consistently outperformed F-Zero. Moreover, Golden Sun had its last title six years ago, while F-Zero hasn't had a game in what, twelve years? Plus, F-Zero already has a character, while GS has none. I'm not trying to argue that GS needs a character, I'm saying F-Zero really doesn't need another. It's not a very prominent series, Smash just makes people believe it is.

I think the fact that F-Zero has been represented in Smash since 1998 or whenever is the reason it's so much more recognizable than Golden Sun. You may argue that's not a reason to give it a character, but I'd have to disagree. Especially when it has a character that is so important to it. I can't say that Sylux and Bandana Dee are more important to their series than SG is to F-Zero.

However you're justifying it semantically, if you want to position your roster as some "addition" to the existing SSB4 roster, it still doesn't make much sense to cut characters. For an actual Smash 5 years down the line, sure, but in a game that presumably would re-use the existing assets and takes place two years after release... not so much.

Alright, I'll concede on that. Maybe it was a bad idea. I mean the ideal point of this roster was a port of Smash 4 on the NX. However if this were years later there would really be no point in having those characters unless Awakening had a sequel or if Greninja became a Lucario situation.

I think with the mentality of "clone until proven unique", you're the one reversing it. That's basically like saying guilty until proven innocent. Sakurai doesn't go into a game thinking "how can I make these newcomers similar to existing characters?"

That's not what I do either. I look at a character and say. "How can I make this character different." That's what I did with Samurai Goroh. And I also say to myself "Okay, he has a sword that he uses. Now I can't make an entire move set based on nothing, but a sword. So what can I use it for? That's why it's used for his tilts, his rapid A attack, and his side special. Samurai Goroh is a strong man. That's why his other moves are based on his strength. I logically come to the conclusion that "Hey, Samurai Goroh is a lot like Captain Falcon in that respect. He shares similar physical aspects and he's been shown to be similar to him in the game, including with his energy and flexibility." That's why his physical attacks are loosely based off of Captain Falcon. And I feel the move set he has stays just as true to F-Zero as it does for Captain Falcon.

I would apply this same logic to characters like Falco & Wolf.

I don't know about you, but when I think of Goroh fighting I see him punching, kicking, grabbing, and (like in F-Zero) occasionally using his sword. And that's what he does in this game. It's a combination of Captain Falcon's moves, his own moves, and moves using his sword. I think that's very reasonable.

he goes in trying to implement unique additions, then adds the clones and semi-clones as afterthoughts.

I don't believe Lucas was an afterthought.

There's an exception here and there, but what I'm saying is Goroh has enough at his disposal to be completely unique

I will not agree with that until you show me a unique move set based entirely off of his katana

and thinking otherwise is just a lack of creativity.

UGH! There you go again. Removing all nuance and making things as simple as they can be. Oh, it's just a lack of creativity. It's not a lack of creativity when Luigi and Falco were made into clones. It's about staying true to their character. It's not as simple as. Sword = done!

Sakurai materializes movesets out of thin air, are you're saying you can't come up with a moveset for a character who wields a new type of sword in an unorthodox matter such as Goroh?

Yes. When sword wielders like Cloud or Shulk or Ike were brought in, they had moves prior to their inclusion. Cloud was able to shoot blade beams, use the Limit ability and the Cross Slash. Ike has Eruption and the ability to throw his sword in the air, grab it, and slam it back down. Shulk could see into the future and change his stats.

You can't keep making new sword moves forever. This was understood with Chrom.

Obviously characters can be clones, but since when is that the goal, other than at the tail end of development?

When making Luigi, Lucas, Toon Link, or Wolf. I don't think Sakurai EVER had the intention of giving them their own completely unique move set.

could've easily been a Peach semi-clone. Luma instead of Toad, starbits instead of turnips, same side special but with a space effect.

Now you're proving that the only person who's seeking out how to make a character a clone is you. You don't actually think it works like that do you? If that was the case you could make Rosalina a clone of Mr. Game & Watch. Starbits instead of bacon, blackhole instead of bucket, launch star instead of trampoline. Last time I checked the only time a character has become a clone is if they share similar physical aspects/body structure AND (emphasis on that word, because I know you like to chuck that out the window during this argument) they possess the equipment, abilities, or means to perform those abilities. Rosalina does NOT fit that second criteria. Every other clone that's ever existed does. And you'd be hard pressed to find a character that meets those two traits and ISN'T a clone.

The recovery and forward Smash might've been different, but that's still definitely semi-clone territory.

No. It's not. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Plus their proportions are almost identical even though Rosalina is sized up sometimes.

I've already explained why there is more to it than that.

For that matter, Bowser Jr. could've easily been a Bowser semi-clone.

No...no no no no no. Bowser Jr. does not resemble Bowser's structure. At least Young Link and Pichu were pretty much physically the same despite their size compared to their counterparts. Bowser Jr. is EXTREMELY smaller and EXTREMELY weaker than Bowser.

No, Lucina and Chrom wield the same swords in the same way as characters already on the roster, that's why making them unique would prove more of a challenge. Goroh wields a new sword in a new way, and could obviously be made unique. Go dig up the Goroh thread, wherever it is, and see the movesets for yourself.

I checked out a Goroh moveset thread (Oppossums ot be specific. Had ot log out, cuz I'm still banned)
So far his Neutral Special is a slice, his side special is a combo move (similar to Cross Slash with Cloud), His up special is a tornado spin attack.

First off, I didn't have to read this move set idea to know that THAT was gonna be move he comes up with. So if I can predict your "unique" move set before you even present it, that's not really a sign of creativity.

And the down special is "Speed up". I don't even know where this came from. But, nonetheless, it's just a rip off of Shulks Neutral Special. Goroh just boosts his stats.

You're going to have to give me something better than this to convince me the sword should be his ENTIRE moveset.

If they could, would you suggest they should be clones even when they have more than enough to make them unique?

No, I would probably just make a new mov set, but still give him the moves he shares. Which is actually the case with Meta Knight and King Dedede. Dedede shares two specials with Kirby and Meta Knight shares quite a few normal attacks. Including two of Kirby's throws.



If so, why? Without limits like budget or time, why make a clone when you could make a unique character?

And btw Sakurai did think Wario could be a Mario clone, but also thought he deserved better than a recycled moveset, so he was saved for Brawl.


Because when Goroh fights he uses a sword and when Captain Falcon fights he doesn't. And considering this is a fighting game, makes sense Goroh would retain his method of combat.

And that's what i did with Samurai Goroh. He has some of Falcon's moves, he has some of his own physical moves, and some of his moves use his sword including one of his specials.

Sakurai even has Goroh using his sword as the AT, hun. He's not running around Goroh Punching people.

That's an AWFUL comparison. OF COURSE HE USES HIS SWORD AS AN AT. What else was he suppose to do when he only has one way of attacking? When you're an Assist Trophy, the first thing you find off of the character becomes their way of attacking. It's NOT the same for characters. And again, Samurai Goroh, DOES use his sword in the move set.

He also uses his sword to sabotage the other racer in his profile video.

And?

He never actually fights in the cutscenes at all

And?

but he still uses his katana more than Captain Falcon does anything related to his moveset.

And?

I think the better question is, why would Goroh be a Falcon semi-clone in the first place?

Why ask questions that have already been answered? Repeatedly.

They don't share the same proportions or abilities (other than being drivers)

Yeah they do. They are both muscular and they can both fight. Samurai Goroh isn't crippled last time I checked.

Lucas didn't necessarily use the same PSI attacks as Ness and Ganondorf didn't use the same moves as Captain Falcon. But, they both share the abilities.

Where did you get the impression I said Dixie couldn't do these things? My exact point is that Dixie can do these things which set her apart even though she physically is very similar to Diddy and theoretically could employ the same abilities.

But, what does that prove?

Also, saying she's able to perform Diddy's basic abilities but not his specials, yet also saying she doesn't share Diddy's basic moves, only three of his four specials is just... the height of contradiction.

I specifically said that she does share some of Diddy's attacks outside of specials. Just like Lucas does, but not for the most part.

Old games. Which you are not giving as much importance as current prevalence, remember?

i never said that. I think I'm gonna be done with you after this if this happens again. You are unarguably doing this on purpose.

And Louie being lethargic doesn't mean Alph's dash attack or tilts couldn't be different than Olimar's as well.

But, why would they be? and I didn't state those as reasons for Louie's inclusions. I wish you would stop acting like you don't understand something so you can make it sound stupid when you're clearly smarter than that.

And no, it's not, considering both can be made to exist slightly differently than Olimar, elongated or not.

I'm not arguing you couldn't. I'm just arguing it would be a better idea with Louie.

Alph has more prevalence as of late, Alph was the one to use Rock Pikmin, not Louie

So what? Olimar wasn't the one to use Winged Pikmin.

and Alph was a protagonist, Louie was only ever a deuteragonist.

That's one of the reasons I picked him. So that Olimar would have his partner and Alph would also have his.

First of all, why, and second of all, he doesn't have to be restricted. Why not make it so both can use the normal Pikmin but Olimar gets the white and purple and Alph gets the rock?

So Alph gets less Pikmin? That's not fair.

You could even further differentiate them by giving Olimar his old recovery move and Alph the winged Pikmin.

I just don't think that's a good idea.

Seems rather self-explanatory. Toon Zelda isn't as popular as she used to be.

Oh, well when you blatantly just state it like that with nothing to back it up it makes more sense.

And it doesn't seem like she's going to show up any time soon again.

If there's another Toon game, then yeah she probably is. And she was pretty important in the last one. She was practically playable. In fact Spirit Tracks significantly bolstered her popularity.

Nah, Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser are extremely important to Super Mario. Toad and Yoshi are pretty important to Super Mario. Bowser Jr and Rosalina are extremely important to Sunshine and Galaxy respectively. All other times they mostly exist for filler or fluff.

This is the kind of comment I would normally block people for, but we have a longer hitory and I know you're smarter than that last comment.

Bowser Jr. is CLEARLY important to Super Mario. he's the most important character after the ones that are already in Smash. You think Sunshine is the one he's important in? Do I need to list his games. DO I REALLY NEED TO?

• New Super Mario Bros.
• New Super Mario Bros. Wii
• New Super Mario Bros. U
• Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2
• Paper Mario
• The Yoshi Games
• All the spin off games

Why? Why do I have to explain this to you? Rosalina appears in practically ever Mario spin off game since Mario Kart Wii. She's playable in Super Mario 3D World. She's EXTREMELY popular in the Mario series.

I just can't comprehend that you don't understand this and I'm 99% sure that you do. And you're pretending you don't in a shotty attempt to bolster your argument. You should improve your own arguments instead of intentionally misinterpreting mine.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The Yoshi Games

Jr. wasn't alive in the Yoshi games. You're refering to Baby Bowser, who is still Bowser.

every single Mario spin off game since Mario Kart Wii.

Mario Sports Mix
The Paper Mario Series
Mario and Luigi series
Mario Sluggers
Mario Party 9
Dr Mario Series
Fortune Street
Mario Tennis Open

Not even close dude.



And Saturn you're getting WAY too into this and with the level of attitude that got you in trouble in the first place.

Calm down man. These rosters are gonna change as we're WAY too early for another Smash.

There's no point in being mean, especially when N3ON wasn't rude.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I forgot to present this in the original post, but here is the starters version of the roster I had previously posted:
View attachment 100348

This is the full version with all characters unlocked:

Spoiler

View attachment 100349

I will do my best to respond to all my critiques, but I do not visit Smashboards as often as I use to and I've gotten 7 notifications in my inbox just this morning. So if you've said something I've addressed before even to someone else, I'm not going to reply.

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Um...what?


And?


So do Corrin & Lucina

That is true.


What logic? Are you saying Greninja represents a Pokemon game and therefore shouldn't be removed? What kind of logic is that?


Just because something is "A BIG THING" doesn't mean it's common knowledge or a reason to add a character. Explain why Intelligent System's plan to stop making Fire Emblem games if Awakening didn't sell is a reason to keep Robin or how it's common knowledge among all Nintendo/Fire Emblem fans. You keep saying "Awakening saved the series" but, you never explain why that's a reason to keep a character. You're entire argument falls apart on the basis that as long as a character deserves to be in Super Smash Bros that they will never get cut. The point of cutting characters is not "Let's cut this character because they're not important." It's "Okay, we have to make some cuts. Let's make a priority list and see which characters out of all the characters on the roster is are the least necessary." When you compare Robin & Greninja to characters like Duck Hunt, Rosalina, Bowser Jr., Little Mac, Shulk, Pac-Man. They are not nearly as significant and/or popular among the Nintendo audience. They are the flavor of the month characters. That doesn't make them unimportant. It just makes them LESS important than the characters that were kept. Even Lucas who revived the Mother series after almost a decade, who was the only other Mother character, and who was extremely popular was cut. Was it because he didn't matter? No. It was because A Japan Only character that was half a decade old did not hold up to the characters that were added and left in. Lucas was probably the hardest cut next to Mewtwo.


Why?


And you base this off of what exactly? From what I understand he was so popular that he returned as DLC. He's even the face of the Miiverse board. He's literally one of the most popular Smash characters.


And Dr. Mario has a less original move set than Wolf


According to you. Oh, but a game saving a series warrants a permanent inclusion of a character from that series. That doesn't need an explanation.


Roy's parents are literally the main characters of the Fire Emblem game that came right after sword of seals


What a great argument. I don't see why Wolf is needed. I don't see why Dr. Mario is needed. I'm just gonna declare characters unnecessary and hope the fact that they either share a move set or are based off of an existing character makes that self evident and disregard all of their merits as actual characters.

Tons of characters aren't "needed". The point of this roster was to simply expand the old one. As if it were re-released as a launch title for NX. That's why a lot of the additions are newcomers based on existing characters. Almost like Melee, but with much more variation. And yet, despite the addition of Inkling, Elma, Paper Mario, King K. Rool, Waluigi. Tons of unique characters as well as highly requested ones. "I don't see why we need that character."

Here's a quote from Sakurai that I think fits my frustration with this constant criticism:

"This is like a free dessert after a luxurious meal that was prepared free of charge. In a restaurant with this type of service, I don’t think there’s anybody who would say, “Change this to a meat dish!!”"

I think fans should be grateful that characters they love who would not get a chance to get in otherwise are added in this roster



Impa is not a character I feel you could put on the cover of Smash bros and your average Nintendo fan would be like "Oh, yeah it's Impa! My favorit Nintendo character." nor is she a classic one like Ice Climbers or Little Mac. But, I can see where you're coming from. I don't think that's a bad decision, but I think Toon Zelda would a better, more recognizable character with a lot more support and would (imo) satisfy fans in the end.There's a lot of characters Smash fans complain about prior to their inclusion that do well anyway. It's not just about what the Smash fans want. It's about what an average Nintendo fan will enjoy. And I think Toon Zelda wins that contest.



Well, thank you. I had hoped it would be an improvement from the roster's I made prior to Smash 4's release.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you want to be smart aleck. I don't care. If you want to be demonstrably ignorant on how something works. Whatever. Don't be both at the same time.


No, no. Do go on. Tell me some more jokes about how people you disagree with are on drugs.


What kind of argument is that?



Hold, on. Are you trolling? You sound someone who is doing a crude impersonation of your own logic.


Nnnnno not really. Again, what kind of argument is that? Dude, Toon Link's got his own items. That's why more unique! t's more unique. It's more unique. I can just boldly apply that to any character I want.


I think it's a little too late to start being serious. Especially after that statement.


At this point I don't really take what you consider to be interesting very seriously. Especially after that. You're answer to everything is basically. Sword = interesting. Even his Final Smash. Apparently Samurai Goroh's sword is more important to him than the vehicle he races in. I don't know how you figured that.


Vague statement.


And yet you're complaining about Samurai Goroh doing the same thing. Even when he uses his sword for most of his tilts, his rapid a attack, and his side special. No, his move set has to be absolutely nothing but his sword. Even his Final Smash for petesake!



Sakurai didn't cut Lucas & Mewtwo because he had a beef with them. Characters have either been cut due to time constraints or in favor of the newest character of their series.



Why? I guess by your logic though, there's never a good reason to cut ANY character. That is until they actually get cut.


That's because people were to stupid to realize how popular Lucario had become and the fact that Ike is one of the few characters to appear as the main character in multiple installments.


So what?


It's a little more complicated than that.Complaining that a fully fledged character was cut over a clone is like complaining that someone has time to build a table, but they don't have time to build a house.


Bayonetta is one of the most requested characters ever.


No, that's pretty much you


You're the one making the claim. Why don't you provide the evidence.


You wanna be able to mock people and act like your arguments are self evident, but you're gonna complain when someone else does it? That's not a good motto have on the internet. The thing is, a lot of times things are just self evident. So yeah, I'm gonna act pretty frustrated when it needs to be carefully explained to multiple people. Maybe I act like things are painfully obvious, because they're painfully obvious. Because they need to be explained to people who will not accept anything outside the characters they want.

Don't act like this is a me issue. This is extremely common among Smash fans. And you have every right to complain that I'm the same. But, even now Smash fans are still arguing that Ridley's size is irrelevant. Even after over 20 clones have arisen from the exact same criteria, they refuse to admit there's a pattern and that anytime a character has some kind of unique weapon, there's no way they'll become a clone. Despite CLEAR evidence to the contrary. And wouldn't you know it, they act like it's just common knowledge. They act like their "opinion" is fact. And whatever. Act however you want. I don't care if you wanna mock people, or bring up old dirt, snarkily badmouth people in quotes to other users, or act like people's opinions are just so OBVIOUSLY wrong. It doesn't bother me. But, don't come back and complain about me responding to you in the exact way that you act. @MahBoi2016 CrusherMania1592 @TheDarkKnightNoivern


And here's a perfect example. I shouldn't have to carefully explain in detail every single difference between these characters and their counterparts because you want to find the simplest way to describe a character so that they sound more useless than they actually are. So yes, of course I'm going to act frustrated.


I disagree entirely and find that notion to lack any support. Any Pokemon fan can tell you who Pichu is and several can tell you that they adore him. Probably because he's the baby version of Pikachu for crying out loud. He even had his own minor spin off show. Pichu Bros.


This is the second time I've had to explain the concept of how a clone character is not equivalent to the man hours required for a new character. And if you want my reasoning for Pichu, go back and read my posts because it's been stated several times and yet despite responding to your question? "Why Pichu?" you still seem to keep asking that question. It's a little irritating.

The reason I'm so frustrated is because of this constant notion that moves are just always more important than characters. A character is NOTHING if they don't have their own move set. Even when those characters are a slight minority.

*Sigh*

Sounds like you don't get it at all do you? Still the same old SaturnGamer from two years ago.


Look man, I understand that you got a different view than most of us and that's fine because I'm always open to new ideas and all. Just some of your ideas can seem a bit funny or off, but that depends on the individual. So we got a different view on how Goroh is used. That's fine. I can see how you can see Goroh as a semi-clone while I view him more based on his Katana even though like others, has to find some basic punch/kick/grab moves to help fulfill his moveset rather than being 100% dependable on the Katana. Yes, a Katana is a different kind of sword, but it's not the same as an unique moveset. The Katana is a part of Goroh's character with him being a bounty hunter. Throw some curveballs like the did with Fox and Captain Falcon.


Learn to respect others even if you don't agree with it instead of attacking everyone man. There's no need for the raising your voice on us just because we disagree over one little thing with your roster choice or your reasons/explanations because you end up becoming defensive over it which results in flaming others because of a specific view over something. It's a common pattern that happens every time you post: opinion, disagreement, flaming with proving as fact. Seriously, enough with the bashing and flaming and chill out! I'd rather see a healthy discussion going around here, not an entire board being against one or several users because of a disagreement. Just let things go and no need to get all worked up. I apologize if I sound like an ass towards you, but enough is enough.




Speaking of Gengar, I do wonder about how he would be used in Smash. Since a Ghost type Pokemon would be pretty unique for Smash and I wonder how he would be able to dodge certain moves as well as a movepool heavily on Ghost/Poison/Psychic/Dark type moves with Mega Gengar or a Hypnosis/Dream Eater type of combo for a Final Smash

Several changes to the roster:

 

[N3ON]

I don't have time to reply to your entire post right now Noah, so you'll have to settle for this:

You're going to have to give me something better than this to convince me the sword should be his ENTIRE moveset.

Well ok, off the top of my head:

Goroh uses a reverse grip when holding his katana (think of the guy from The Force Unleashed), and does not fight in the precise, fluid, or honourable way normally associate with katanas. He fights brutishly and often uses his katana as more of a club than a sword. He is of average speed, above average weight, high strength, low range, below average air mobility and low jumping ability. Though his recovery move carries him a fair distance to compensate for his lack of jumping ability.

B: Goroh yells "Stingray Slash!" and slashes his sword at a ~110 degree angle generating pink wind-energy in front of him. Contact with the energy stuns opponents and causes moderate electrical damage, leaving them open to a follow-up attack. If timed right, can also blow back projectiles. Short ranged. Contact with just the sword also deals damage however it is minimal as it would only happen at an awkward angle.
Side B: Runs forward, arm extended and butt of the hilt facing forward, carries opponents for multi-hits like Marill when contact is made. Press B again during the attack to have him backhandedly slash the katana, knocking opponents away
Up B: Does a backward somersault, katana out. Sort of like a vertical version of one of the Mii swordfighter's side specials. Has a backward trajectory, so best to recover facing away from the stage. With DI can only go so far as to traveling directly vertical. Travels a fair distance though somewhat difficult to master.
Down B: Goroh enters a rage whereby his attack power and speed increase and knockback against him decreases. Rage lasts for maybe 10 seconds, afterwards for ten seconds he is weaker than normal and susceptible to greater knockback. There is also a cooldown period before re-use. When he is ready to re-rage, that little anime rage-mark thing appears on his forehead and he growls

Fsmash: Goroh holds his katana with both hands horizontal at head level and stabs blade-forward in a quick motion, pinkish electrical damage dealt akin to Falcon's fire damage with his Fsmash
Usmash: Goroh does a one-handed cartwheel, kicking the opponent above him twice
Dsmash: Holding the katana hilt-forward Goroh jams the katana down in-front of him then behind him. The second hit is much more powerful (this one is similar to Cloud's Dsmash, granted)

Dash attack: Holding the katana vertically, one palm against the back of the middle of the blade, Goroh jams the sword in front of him
Ftilt: Goroh headbutts in front of him
Utilt: Holding the hilt in one hand and the blade in another, Goroh shoves the sword horizontally above his head, almost as if he were holding a staff
Dtilt: Goroh stabs downward with the hilt of the sword

Nair: Chest bumps opponent
Fair: Spikes opponent down with the butt end of the sword's hilt
Uair: Somersaults upward with sword out, similar to Samus's recovery, except with slightly more hitbox range and only a single hit.
Bair: Slashes behind himself
Dair: Holds sword close to chest, blade out, and propels downward spinning, like a faster vertical version of MK's side special. Has slight DI.

A: With both hands holding the katana, Goroh slashes forward
AA: With both hands holding the katana, Goroh slashes upward
A (continuous): With one hand holding the katana, Goroh slashes forward in a flurry like his AT. Eventually he delivers a blow that knocks opponents away

So there you go. A Goroh moveset that doesn't resemble Captain Falcon nor any other existing sword wielders.

At the end of the day it's your roster and you can make Goroh a semi-clone if you like (though then complaints that giving him a katana would make him too similar to other characters is a bit... paradoxical), but to say he can't be unique is pretty short-sighted, especially since so much of his fighting style is untapped potential. Just because you see a character a certain way doesn't mean that's the objective perspective.

 

[Antique_Gamer]

I actually never thought about that. I mean I would never add the bounty hunter characters in a normal Smash roster or Dark Samus or Ridley in any roster. But, in a 100 character roster, having other bounty hunters from Metroid would actually be a good idea...

I will admit I don't really see many other characters from the metroid series (most would probs come from Hunters) appearing in an actual roster, though more probable as an assist trophy or a stage specific boss (think Metal Head and Ridley). IE Metroid Prime (V1 or now that I think about it V2 would be plausible as well cause of Ghirahim and Midna), Quadraxus, maybe the Chykka(V2/3?), Parasite queen (actually having an attack instead of just flipping the stage), etc...

Adding a Star Fox character that's not a clone of Fox would be both impossible and stick out like a sore thumb. Why would Krystal not be a clone of Fox? Because she used a staff in the opening cutscene of a Star Fox game that's not even a Star Fox game and is no longer canon? She'd be even more of a clone than Falco.

Maybe Krystal? Then again, I would like to pound the snot out of Slippy... ROB 64 might be plausible as well...

 

[TheLastJinjo]

N3ON

If you're curious as to how I would make Samurai Goroh's move set, this is how. I created this move set with the intention of Samurai Goroh using moves that incorporate his body strength, that would only naturally mirror that of his rival Captain Falcon, and would also incorporate his Katana. I find a body strength focused moveset that doesn't centralizes entirely around the katana, to be truer to his character and more reasonable, especially in a roster that features Takamaru.

Spoiler

Entrance: Rides in on his Fire Stingray

A: Jab
AA: Double Jab
AAA: Samurai Goroh swipes his sword rapidly (similar to Meta Knight, but only in front of him).
A Side: Goroh does an outwards swipe of the katana .
A Up: Goroh swiftly moves the sword up to a 120 degree.
A Down: While Goroh is ducking, he swipes the katana in front of him. This shoots the character upward.
Dash A: Like Captain Falcon, he shoulder rams into you, but follows it up with a sword swipe.

Smash Side: Same as Captain Falcon, but more powerful
Smash Up: Same as Captain Falcon, also more powerful Unlike Ganondorf though, he kicks with both feet
Smash Down: Same as Captain Falcon

Air A: Same as Captain Falcon
Up Air A: Goroh swipes his katana upward (similar to Marth/Corrin)
Backward Air A: Goroh slashes his katana backwards (similar to Mega Man)
Forward Air A: Same as Captain Falcon
Down Air A: Same as Captain Falcon

Grab and Pummel: Goroh grabs the foe and knees them in the torso.
Forward Throw: Goroh picks up the foe and body slams them
Back Throw: Goroh throws the foe back and kicks them
Up Throw: Goroh throws foes upwards and jabs them with the katana for 9%.
Down Throw: Goroh throws the foe down on them and stomps on them for 12%.


Neutral Special: Goroh Punch - Samurai Goroh's Punch is a bit like Captain Falcon's, but it is faster and more like the Falcon Punch animation from Smash 64. Instead of creating a fiery falcon, his punch creates a fiery stingray. This move has more horizontal launching power.

Side Special: Katana Boost - This one is a lot different from Raptor Boost. It functions similar Goroh uses his sword instead of his fists. When the attack is successful, it has a lot of launching power. It's basically like Lyn's slash, but obviously not powerful enough to KO at such a low percentage. Goroh of course falls down if the attack does not hit anything.

Down Special: Goroh Kick - There's many different things you can do with this move so take your pick

Up Special : Goroh Dive - Unlike Falcon Dive, Goroh Dive is a much worse recovery. It does not go very high, however if Goroh manages to grab you, he will meteor smash you, making it very useful if you use it against an opponent who is also trying to recover, because it will not only increase your recover, but meteor smash them and in most cases, KO them.

FINAL SMASH: Fire Stingray - This is pretty self explanatory.

Here is also an illustration of it.

If you ask me, these seems like a much more accurate representation on how Samurai Goroh would fight if he was in Super Smash Bros.

I only use this illustration because it resembles the move set already had in mind

When I say "Same as Captain Falcon" I of course don't mean "Exactly the same" there are of course difference in properties such as attack power, hitbox, launching power, etc.

 

[Luigi The President]

N3ON

If you're curious as to how I would make Samurai Goroh's move set, this is how. I created this move set with the intention of Samurai Goroh using moves that incorporate his body strength, that would only naturally mirror that of his rival Captain Falcon, and would also incorporate his Katana. I find a body strength focused moveset that doesn't centralizes entirely around the katana, to be truer to his character and more reasonable, especially in a roster that features Takamaru.

Spoiler

Entrance: Rides in on his Fire Stingray

A: Jab
AA: Double Jab
AAA: Samurai Goroh swipes his sword rapidly (similar to Meta Knight, but only in front of him).
A Side: Goroh does an outwards swipe of the katana .
A Up: Goroh swiftly moves the sword up to a 120 degree.
A Down: While Goroh is ducking, he swipes the katana in front of him. This shoots the character upward.
Dash A: Like Captain Falcon, he shoulder rams into you, but follows it up with a sword swipe.

Smash Side: Same as Captain Falcon, but more powerful
Smash Up: Same as Captain Falcon, also more powerful Unlike Ganondorf though, he kicks with both feet
Smash Down: Same as Captain Falcon

Air A: Same as Captain Falcon
Up Air A: Goroh swipes his katana upward (similar to Marth/Corrin)
Backward Air A: Goroh slashes his katana backwards (similar to Mega Man)
Forward Air A: Same as Captain Falcon
Down Air A: Same as Captain Falcon

Grab and Pummel: Goroh grabs the foe and knees them in the torso.
Forward Throw: Goroh picks up the foe and body slams them
Back Throw: Goroh throws the foe back and kicks them
Up Throw: Goroh throws foes upwards and jabs them with the katana for 9%.
Down Throw: Goroh throws the foe down on them and stomps on them for 12%.


Neutral Special: Goroh Punch - Samurai Goroh's Punch is a bit like Captain Falcon's, but it is faster and more like the Falcon Punch animation from Smash 64. Instead of creating a fiery falcon, his punch creates a fiery stingray. This move has more horizontal launching power.

Side Special: Katana Boost - This one is a lot different from Raptor Boost. It functions similar Goroh uses his sword instead of his fists. When the attack is successful, it has a lot of launching power. It's basically like Lyn's slash, but obviously not powerful enough to KO at such a low percentage. Goroh of course falls down if the attack does not hit anything.

Down Special: Goroh Kick - There's many different things you can do with this move so take your pick

Up Special : Goroh Dive - Unlike Falcon Dive, Goroh Dive is a much worse recovery. It does not go very high, however if Goroh manages to grab you, he will meteor smash you, making it very useful if you use it against an opponent who is also trying to recover, because it will not only increase your recover, but meteor smash them and in most cases, KO them.

FINAL SMASH: Fire Stingray - This is pretty self explanatory.

Here is also an illustration of it.
View attachment 100495
If you ask me, these seems like a much more accurate representation on how Samurai Goroh would fight if he was in Super Smash Bros.

I only use this illustration because it resembles the move set already had in mind

When I say "Same as Captain Falcon" I of course don't mean "Exactly the same" there are of course difference in properties such as attack power, hitbox, launching power, etc.

N3ON'S moveset is so much funner, more creative, and generally better, in my opinion. Plus, Sakurai has said he is willing to deviate from a character's base aspects for a better moveset. The sword is already a base aspect and makes for a better moveset then Falcon, and I think that's what we should focus on; a great character having what is arguably known as his most iconic moveset, and said moveset being fun and creative and adding a lot to Smash.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Jr. wasn't alive in the Yoshi games. You're refering to Baby Bowser, who is still Bowser.

They literally might as well be the same character. And you know that full well.

Mario Sports Mix
The Paper Mario Series
Mario and Luigi series
Mario Sluggers
Mario Party 9
Dr Mario Series
Fortune Street
Mario Tennis Open

Not even close dude.

I mean practically all. And once again, you know that. This is why I get frustrated with you guys. Especially when people say things like "Bowser Jr & Rosalina aren't important to Super Mario" or "Yoshi and Pikachu aren't real characters" It's hard to feel bad when I don't sugar coat my responses to these kinds of statements

And Saturn you're getting WAY too into this and with the level of attitude that got you in trouble in the first place.

Calm down man. These rosters are gonna change as we're WAY too early for another Smash.

There's no point in being mean, especially when N3ON wasn't rude.

That really depends on what your definition of mean is. I'm willing to wager I can compare any "mean" quote of me to one of yours or another user. Like "Not even close, dude" or constantly "Well, you got banned all the time like 2 years ago"

If you have a problem with slightly heated conversations, forums on the internet are not the best place. I personally don't think I'm being "mean", but if you think I am, I'm simply mocking your arguments, it's nothing personal about you. Mocking arguments is not something you should be criticizing when you've done it before and so has every single person on Smashboards.

And I'm naturally more aggressive sounding than I intend to be. I'm kind of doomed to be like this. But, I'll assess your criticisms and try to better myself. But, imo I think your disagreement with my arguments is the majority of your problem with my "attitude". I seriously doubt you would be complaining if it was someone else defending the side you're on based on past experience. In fact I know that for a fact and can prove just with the last page on this forum.

It's kind of hypocritical, but I'm not gonna argue about my attitude so if you have a problem with it, I wouldn't bother trying to.

And the point isn't that N3ON is being rude. It's that he's intentionally pretending he doesn't understand what you're talking about so that he can make what you're saying sound more stupid than it actually is and adding things you never even said. Sometimes making arguments that he knows neither of us believe in.

N3ON'S moveset is so much funner, more creative, and generally better, in my opinion. Plus, Sakurai has said he is willing to deviate from a character's base aspects for a better moveset. The sword is already a base aspect and makes for a better moveset then Falcon, and I think that's what we should focus on; a great character having what is arguably known as his most iconic moveset, and said moveset being fun and creative and adding a lot to Smash.

It's not going to look so fun and creative when Takamaru comes along. And I stil disagree, Goroh should incorporate his own strength into his move set. Kind of like a Captain Falcon/Samurai Hybrid. Because that's exactly what he is in F-Zero. I do think the use of the sword as a stingray tail is creative. You can say it's more fun and creative, but it's not much of an argument. You could say a Poltergust move set would be more fun and creative for Luigi.

We're just going to have to disagree on which move set is more true to his character.

 

[QuintonShark8714]

Megadoomer
@MahBoi2016
@Nintenzilla
@wariohasdiabetes
Ura
@Only Human
@Dan
@Kremling Man
Venus of the Desert Bloom
@Dastardly Ridleylash
@Xenora
@TheDarkKnightNoivern
Luigi The President
@SaturnGamer64
N3ON
Swamp Sensei
@SilverEra
Antique_Gamer
@Opossum

Spoiler

Veterans


Unlockable Veterans

Spoiler

Newcomers
Captain Toad
Dixie Kong
Impa
Sylux
Bandana Dee
A Gen 8 Pokemon
A Future Main Fire Emblem Protagnist
Virdi
Isabelle
Elma
Inkling
Issac
Wonder Red
Takamaru
Rayman

Unlockable Newcomers

Spoiler

Waluigi
Linkle
Black Shadow
Daisy
King K. Rool
Ridley
Paper Mario
Chorus Men

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Megadoomer
@MahBoi2016
@Nintenzilla
@wariohasdiabetes
Ura
@Only Human
@Dan
@Kremling Man
Venus of the Desert Bloom
@Dastardly Ridleylash
@Xenora
@TheDarkKnightNoivern
Luigi The President
@SaturnGamer64

Spoiler

Veterans

Spoiler

Newcomers
Captain Toad
Dixie Kong
Impa
Bandana Dee
A Gen 8 Pokemon
A Future Main Fire Emblem Protagnist
Virdi
Isabelle
Elma
Inkling
Issac
Wonder Red
Takamaru
Rayman

Spoiler

Waluigi
Linkle
Sylux
Black Shadow
Daisy
King K. Rool
Ridley
Paper Mario
Chorus Men

Why Captain Toad? Seems like a pretty random character. Especially over Toad himself. He's not really one of the more important Mario characters. I don't think Mario series needs anymore than the 6 characters it has. I don't really agree with the inclusion of characters like Toad & Waddle Dee.

Isabelle is also pretty baffling. Adding another Animal Crossing character would be like having another Game & Watch Character. Villager & Mr. Game & Watch's move set is based around what you do in the game(s). Having another character that does something specific to one game or one part of the game doesn't really make sense. What would Isabelle even do?

One of the factors in adding characters should be choosing ones that would be almost instantly recognizable and make people wanna buy the game. I don't think Impa, Chorus Kids, and Sylux, and Black Shadow would be good choices. And Black Shadow over Goroh would just be insane. I don't think I need to explain why Viridi & Ridley are bad choices. But, I approve of Paper Mario. I think he's long over due. I am very iffy on Wonder Red.

But, it looks like we have another case of a Pichu supporter.

 

[Megadoomer]

Megadoomer
@MahBoi2016
@Nintenzilla
@wariohasdiabetes
Ura
@Only Human
@Dan
@Kremling Man
Venus of the Desert Bloom
@Dastardly Ridleylash
@Xenora
@TheDarkKnightNoivern
Luigi The President
@SaturnGamer64

Spoiler

Veterans

Spoiler

Newcomers
Captain Toad
Dixie Kong
Impa
Sylux
Bandana Dee
A Gen 8 Pokemon
A Future Main Fire Emblem Protagnist
Virdi
Isabelle
Elma
Inkling
Issac
Wonder Red
Takamaru
Rayman

Spoiler

Waluigi
Linkle
Black Shadow
Daisy
King K. Rool
Ridley
Paper Mario
Chorus Men

Any chance you could summarize the changes you made? You seem to update your roster a lot, so summarizing the changes at the end of your post would make it much easier to comment on the roster without repeating praise or criticism that we've already given several times before.

 

[Deleted member]

Megadoomer
@MahBoi2016
@Nintenzilla
@wariohasdiabetes
Ura
@Only Human
@Dan
@Kremling Man
Venus of the Desert Bloom
@Dastardly Ridleylash
@Xenora
@TheDarkKnightNoivern
Luigi The President
@SaturnGamer64

Spoiler

Veterans

Spoiler

Newcomers
Captain Toad
Dixie Kong
Impa
Sylux
Bandana Dee
A Gen 8 Pokemon
A Future Main Fire Emblem Protagnist
Virdi
Isabelle
Elma
Inkling
Issac
Wonder Red
Takamaru
Rayman

Spoiler

Waluigi
Linkle
Black Shadow
Daisy
King K. Rool
Ridley
Paper Mario
Chorus Men

Dude
Please stop tagging me

 

[Antique_Gamer]

I don't think I need to explain why Viridi & Ridley are bad choices.

Why would Ridley be a bad choice? I mean, we got Bowser... Ridley is just as present in Metroid as Bowser is in the Mario series. Well, Ridley IS in every Metroid game. Same for Bowser in the Mario series. Ridley's probably even more present than Ganondorf. I mean, he does have a moveset already made in a Smash Bros game, it does need some more moves though.
Thanks SSBC!

N3ON
When I say "Same as Captain Falcon" I of course don't mean "Exactly the same" there are of course difference in properties such as attack power, hitbox, launching power, etc.

N3ON'S moveset is so much funner, more creative, and generally better, in my opinion. Plus, Sakurai has said he is willing to deviate from a character's base aspects for a better moveset. The sword is already a base aspect and makes for a better moveset then Falcon, and I think that's what we should focus on; a great character having what is arguably known as his most iconic moveset, and said moveset being fun and creative and adding a lot to Smash.

I guess if Goroh was added, it would end up being some sort of Ganon-Falcon relationship. Maybe one/two games of pretty much cloning, then the differences start appearing more and more until he becomes a whole new character.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

ROB 64 might be plausible as well...

Um...

Why would Ridley be a bad choice? I mean, we got Bowser... Ridley is just as present in Metroid as Bowser is in the Mario series. Well, Ridley IS in every Metroid game. Same for Bowser in the Mario series. Ridley's probably even more present than Ganondorf. I mean, he does have a moveset already made in a Smash Bros game, it does need some more moves though.

The reason I don't need to explain why is because it's been explained not only several times before, but by Sakurai as well. In fact he pretty much word for word says exactly what I've been telling Ridley supporters for years. Same with Chrom supporters and clone nazis.

I guess if Goroh was added, it would end up being some sort of Ganon-Falcon relationship. Maybe one/two games of pretty much cloning, then the differences start appearing more and more until he becomes a whole new character.

The point is to make Samurai Goroh into a Captain Falcon/Samurai hybrid. Because that's what he is in F-Zero and so I find that more true to his character. Just like I find Wolf's move set being based on Fox's more true to his character. It makes more sense to combine a move set of his body strength and his sword. Which would only naturally create a thematic bridge between the two characters like Fox & Wolf. Having every single move (including his Final Smash) is really over blowing a smaller part of his character. Especially in a roster that features Takamaru. A character who's moveset is already entirely based on his Katana, despite his few Ninja abilities. The whole "well, it's new type of sword" argument falls apart at that point. It's a dubious proposition to have a second character with a move set entirely based on a katana when it makes more sense to base them off of their counterpart character.

And Samurai Goroh still uses his sword in a lot of his attacks. Similar to Corrin. He even uses it in his side special. He's significantly different than Captain Falcon. Almost as much as Wolf. It kind of shows that a lot of fans that are against this are bias against characters that share move sets when people are against Samurai Goroh using his Fire Stingray in his Final Smash. But, instead propose "He should use his sword instead."

It's also kind of funny N3ON . You claimed that clones are always a result of last minute inclusions or something like that. When that's really what Samurai Goroh is. He's one of the less important characters and one of the last added like Wolf was in Brawl, mostly to add more characters to F-Zero. He's especially an after thought compared to Takamaru who is one of the first go-to characters when selecting newcomers for a roster. So giving Samurai Goroh a move set entirely based on the exact same weapon at that point is less creative than just making him a unique semi-clone of Captain Falcon. Again Samurai Goroh is a Captain Falcon/Samurai Hybrid in F-Zero and that's what I made him in Super Smash Bros NX. And yet, he still uses his sword for a lot of his attacks. So where the complaint comes from I have no idea. (Despite most very likely bias).

 

[Antique_Gamer]

The reason I don't need to explain why is because it's been explained not only several times before, but by Sakurai as well. In fact he pretty much word for word says exactly what I've been telling Ridley supporters for years. Same with Chrom supporters and clone nazis.

Doesn't mean we can't still dream...
It would be kinda funny to see Ridley with a Charizard coloring though.
Or even vice versa...

I just so happen to like playing as Ridley ( SSBC).
But for now, I guess Ridley must stay a stage-dependent boss...

 

[TheLastJinjo]

N3ON
Swamp Sensei
@SilverEra
Antique_Gamer
@Opossum
Depressed Gengar

So here's the improved roster. This roster represents a port of Smash for Wii U on the NX with an enhanced graphics and additional characters. The most reasonable amount of characters would be 65 + Miis. However this is a generous roster and so through the addition of 3 semiclones, one quarter clone, and 3 previously absent veterans, this roster was boosted to 70 characters + Miis.

In addition, the following characters appear as costumes: Alph, Brittany, Impa, The Koopalings, and Ms. Pac-Man.

Newcomers (12):
Paper Mario
Dixie Kong (Semi Clone)
King K. Rool
Waluigi
Toon Zelda (Semi Clone)
Samurai Goroh (Semi Clone)
New Pokemon
Takamaru
Louie (Quarter Clone)
Elma
Rhythm Heaven Troupe
Inkling

Spoiler: Newcomer Details

Dixie Kong - Dixie Kong is significantly different from Diddy Kong. The moves she has that are based on Diddy are her Gumball Gun, her ponytail flip (side special), and her banana peel (down special). Her up special is completely different. It's admittedly similar to Donkey Kong's up special, but it's not a clone move. It does not stay on the groun and always propels her upwards in whatever direction the control stick is held and it is not powerful like Donkey Kong's up special. She is also very different from Diddy because she shares next to no basic attacks. Instead she uses her hair for most of them. She also uses her guitar for her Final Smash.

I recognize that Dixie would technically be the first clone that's not derived from the main character of a series. I don't know how strict Sakurai is on that, but whatever.

Waluigi - Waluigi's move set is not a shoehorned "Hits with Tennis racket, runs people over with go kart" move set. His move set is based on his quirky and devious personality. The same way in which Wario's was. He's shown to have all kinds of weird innovated abilities in the Mario series. Sakurai could create all kinds of moves based around Waluigi's characteristics.

Samurai Goroh - So I'm going to explain why Samurai Goroh is a semi-clone of Captain Falcon. When a character shares both body structure and abilities they become a clone of a character to some extent. I concede that Samurai Goroh is a bit more bulky than Captain Falcon, but there have been minor exceptions in the body structure area (Wolf, Young Link, Pichu) and like I said, Samurai Goroh is only slightly more bulk than Captain Falcon, but he has been shown to be just as flexible.

I made Samurai Goroh a Captain Falcon/Samurai Hybrid in Smash because that's what he is in F-Zero. He's a racer/bounty hunter with a muscular physique just like Captain Falcon. Just like Wolf is a space pilot like Fox and Lucas is a psychic kid like Ness. He only takes his sword out occasionally and so it's been downplayed to mostly tilts, jaerial attacks, Rapid A attack, and a couple smash attacks (similar to Corrin). I think his move set should be a combination of sword attacks and physical body attacks, making him unique from Takamaru.

Fans are obviously going to argue: Sword = Unique Character. Just because a character has something that could be made into a "unique" move set (emphasis on the quotation marks there) does not mean it's a good idea. For starters the katana is not something Samurai Goroh uses often. It's significant, but it's a smaller part of a bigger character. That's why in the move set I propose he DOES use his katana, but it is a smaller part of his move set. This is the move set I would propose for Samurai Goroh:

Takamaru - So I guess people are gonna try to argue that I'm contradicting myself because Takamaru mostly uses a Katana as his move set. But, those who have played The Mysterious Murasame Castle will know that Takamaru has more abilities. Takamaru is both a samurai and a ninja. He has abilities such as shurikens, invisibility, fire projectiles, and there are many things you can do with a ninja.

Louie - I added Louie over Alph for a few reasons. For one, Alph shares the exacts same body structure as Olimar. Louie is slightly taller and in Smash could have different speed and power. Louie also has a more lethargic personality which can be incorporated into his c attacks like his dash, side tilts, taunts, and animations, such as yawning during his idle pose or sleeping during his duck animation. The next reason Louie was chosen is important. In this version of Smash Olimar is restricted to the original 3 Pikmin, while his partner Louie uses the special mutated Pikmin: White, Purple, Rock. I find this to be a much more organized decision than in Smash for Wii U/3DS. Furthermore, I think it makes more sense to have the special mutant Pikmin given to Louie (the secondary character) than by Alph (the main character). In this Smash roster of course, Alph is a costume of Olimar & Brittany is a costume of Alph. So Pikmin 3 is still represented in this roster, more so than if Alph was his own character. It's a bad idea to take a character who is a costume and making them into their own character anyway. It takes a character that is already playable and disguising them as a newcomer when they're really not. Him being a character over a costume doesn't make a difference. It would be better to have Olimar & Louie as well as Alph and Brittany.

So to list all the differences: Louie is slightly taller and has a slightly bigger hitbox. He's also slightly slower and slightly more powerful. Louie duck animation depicts him sleeping. His trips during his smash attack and because of this it takes more time for him to get up, buck by tripping he hits people in front of him with his helmet, providing a stronger attack. One of his victory poses his him asleep being carried by Pikmin and then being woken up when they drop him.

Louie uses White, Purple, and Rock Pikmin. In this game Purple Pikmin have the ability to latch on to opponents, attack more slowly, but are harder to shake off. Rock Pikmin on the other hand do not latch onto opponents. They behave as Purple Pikmin have in the past 2 installments, but they can barry opponents in Smash attacks and easily break shields. Another change is that Olimar uses the S.S. Dolphin in his Final Smash while Louie uses the Hocotate ship.

Rhythm Heaven Troupe - This character consists of the Rhythm Heaven Girl (A character that appears on all the art, soundtracks, and title screens and has been in every game to date) along with a monkey and a chorus kid and through the use of her move set, several other Rhythm Heaven characters. She conducts the Chorus Kids as her Final Smash.

I really don't get why people use Karate Joe or Chorus Kids over this option. This character is literally The Rhythm Heaven Girl. She appears in just as many games, in fact she appears more because she appears on art, soundtracks, and title screens. She's also the most common appearing species of the game. Which are young adult, skinny females.

Spoiler: Changes Made to Veterans

• Mario's F.L.U.D.D. has been changed to the Galaxy Spin which has also been given to Luigi. Now Mario, Luigi, and Dr. Mario's moves are in harmony. However Dr. Mario's does not emit stars, it is still the same.
• Dr. Mario's Victory theme has been changed. It also continues and loops just like in Dr. Mario.
• Peach's victory theme has been changed to her rescued theme from the end of Super Mario Bros.
• Donkey Kong is smaller and made to look like his actual current design in Donkey Kong games. Not that weird fur he has in Smash 4.
• Sheik uses her harp in one of her victory poses.
• Fox has his old idle animation. His design is now the Star Fox Zero design (along with Falco & Wolf) and the landmaster is as well. The landmaster is also smaller.
• Wolf's victory theme has been changed.
• Olimar & Alph use Red, Yellow, and Blue Pikmin while Louie & Brittany use White, Purple, and Rock Pikmin.
• Wario's dash attack is the shoulder ram from Wario Land. Additionally his overall outfit is his main outfit.
• Dark Pit now uses Gemini Orbitars.
• Sonic's side special has been changed to his boost attack from Sonic Rush. Sonic also loses rings when KO'd.
• Cloud now speaks English. His Advent Children color starts at his 5th color. Futhermore, characters from Final Fantasy 7 and previous Final Fantasy games appear as trophies as well as Geno. There are also soundtracks from previous Final Fantasy games and also the battle music from Bravely Default & Bravely Second.
  
• Ms. Pac-Man is now a costume.
  
• Bowser Jr.'s grab arm matches the color of the Clown car.
  
• Diddy's Jetpack and Peanut Popgun are the current Donkey Kong Country designs
• DLC Character's now have custom move sets.

Spoiler: New Stages - Home Console

• 3D World
• Dr. Mario Stage
• Bowser's Castle
• Prism Island (Paper Mario)
• Lost Mangroves (DKC: Tropical Freeze)
• Zelda Wii U Stage
  
• Windfall Island
• Dreamland (Kirby's Return to Dreamland)
• Great Fox (Star Fox Zero)
• Magicant
• Twilight River (Pikmin 3)
• Rhythm Heaven
• Xenoblade X Stage
• Splatoon Stage
• Murasame Castle
• Casino Street Zon
• Pac-Maze

Spoiler: New Stages - Handheld Console

• Luigi's Mansions
• Fire Emblem Fates Stage
• Pokemon Sun/Pokemon Moon Stage
• Rhythm Heaven
• Murasame Castle
• Virtual Zone (Virtual Boy)

Spoiler: New Assist Trophies

• Cammy (Street Fighter)
  
• Black Mage (Final Fantasy)
  
• Jeanne (Bayonetta)
• Eggplant Wizard
• Rambi
• Giygas (Mother 2)
• Puffy Blowhog
• Isaac
• Barbara
• Excite Bike
• Mach Rider
• Prof. Oak (3 Pokeballs at once)
• Adeline (Kirby 64)
• Sneaky Spirit
• Fawful
• Count Bleck
• Kamek (casts a spell on characters like the bosses in Yoshi's Island. Changes character forms: Metal, Giant, Invisible, Tanooki)
• Poochy
• Urban Champion
• Dr. Eggman (Green Hill Zone Boss)
• Monita
• Mr. Resseti
• Captain Toad
• Ray MK III

 

[Ura]

So here's the improved roster. This roster represents a port of Smash for Wii U on the NX with an enhanced graphics and additional characters. The most reasonable amount of characters would be 65 + Miis. However this is a generous roster and so through the addition of 3 semiclones, one quarter clone, and 3 previously absent veterans, this roster was boosted to 70 characters + Miis.
View attachment 100572

In addition, the follwing characters appear as costumes: Alph, Brittany, The Koopalings, and Ms. Pac-Man. Also the following changes have been made to veterans:

No love for Golden Sun?

Otherwise, the roster is pretty decent.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

No love for Golden Sun?

Otherwise, the roster is pretty decent.

If Golden Sun gets a game on 3DS and it's successful enough, I'd add a character.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

much word for word says exactly what I've been telling Ridley supporters for years. Same with Chrom supporters and clone nazis.

Wait a minute...

Didn't you put Ridley AND Chrom in your rosters way back when?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Wait a minute...

Didn't you put Ridley AND Chrom in your rosters way back when?

I put Chrom in the earliest rosters. I only added Ridley because people mocked me and pressured me into adding him. My stance on him has always been the same. I always considered it a bad idea. And if you go back you can find me objecting to it even at times when I've presented rosters that feature him. That was way back before Ridley was revealed to be a boss and my rosters didn't accurately meet inclusion criteria. With characters like Diskun and Eirika. Although what's funny is that I added Erika to have a female Marth clone, and that's what Lucina ended up being.

People thought a lot of things I said were crazy.

• Chrom not being unique enough.
• The fact that Ridley wouldn't truly be Ridley in Smash.
• Dark Pit being a clone (I know. Crazy right?)
• Dr. Mario returning.
• Wolf getting cut.
• Pokemon getting a newcomer (Even crazier)
• Zelda characters keeping their designs

That's not to say I wasn't wrong when it came to things I thought were crazy. I just find it funny that when it came to Chrom, Ridley, Namco characters, and clones, Sakurai's quotes were pretty much exact copies of mine. Despite them being deemed laughable.

 

[N3ON]

It's also kind of funny N3ON . You claimed that clones are always a result of last minute inclusions or something like that. When that's really what Samurai Goroh is. He's one of the less important characters and one of the last added like Wolf was in Brawl, mostly to add more characters to F-Zero. He's especially an after thought compared to Takamaru who is one of the first go-to characters when selecting newcomers for a roster. So giving Samurai Goroh a move set entirely based on the exact same weapon at that point is less creative than just making him a unique semi-clone of Captain Falcon. Again Samurai Goroh is a Captain Falcon/Samurai Hybrid in F-Zero and that's what I made him in Super Smash Bros NX. And yet, he still uses his sword for a lot of his attacks. So where the complaint comes from I have no idea. (Despite most very likely bias).

This is the first I'm hearing from you that Goroh would be a last-minute inclusion. In that case, yeah, him being a semi-clone makes sense.

He's not a Captain Falcon hybrid in F-Zero though. He's his own character with his own stats. Even Blood Falcon, Phoenix and Beastman are much more Captain Falcon-y than Goroh is in that series.

I also don't know what bias you're insinuating at. I don't think Goroh should be included in the first place (F-Zero has been dead for a while now and isn't a very prevalent series in the first place), but if he is, and it's not as a last-minute addition, you might as well make him unique.

Lastly, taking the same weapon and making two distinct movesets from it is the height of creativity, not the abject lack of it. With Takamaru's use of shurikens, windmill swords, lightning, invisibility, etc. as well as his agility and orthodox katana swordplay, he'd play nothing like the Goroh I outlined.

I put Chrom in the earliest rosters. I only added Ridley because people mocked me and pressured me into adding him. My stance on him has always been the same. I always considered it a bad idea. And if you go back you can find me objecting to it even at times when I've presented rosters that feature him. That was way back before Ridley was revealed to be a boss and my rosters didn't accurately meet inclusion criteria. With characters like Diskun and Eirika. Although what's funny is that I added Erika to have a female Marth clone, and that's what Lucina ended up being.

People thought a lot of things I said were crazy.

• Chrom not being unique enough.
• The fact that Ridley wouldn't truly be Ridley in Smash.
• Dark Pit being a clone (I know. Crazy right?)
• Dr. Mario returning.
• Wolf getting cut.
• Pokemon getting a newcomer (Even crazier)
• Zelda characters keeping their designs

That's not to say I wasn't wrong when it came to things I thought were crazy. I just find it funny that when it came to Chrom, Ridley, Namco characters, and clones, Sakurai's quotes were pretty much exact copies of mine. Despite them being deemed laughable.

I think we can all list the predictions we got correct and make ourselves look impressive by omitting all the ones we got wrong. I still remember when Rosalina got confirmed and you added her to your sig of "predicted characters" as if you had always had her on there.

Kudos on the Dr. Mario call, but all those other ones had sizeable contingents on both sides (except Dark Pit where the vast majority did believe he would be a clone, iirc they were more saying he could be unique), it's not really a big deal having made those predictions.

And for long periods of time you did have Chrom and Ridley and Wolf on your roster, so let's not get too crazy with the "I was right, I was right" game. We can all play it.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

This is the first I'm hearing from you that Goroh would be a last-minute inclusion. In that case, yeah, him being a semi-clone makes sense.

He's not a Captain Falcon hybrid in F-Zero though. He's his own character with his own stats. Even Blood Falcon, Phoenix and Beastman are much more Captain Falcon-y than Goroh is in that series.

The definition of a hybrid is not a character being identical to another. It's a combination of two things. And a "later inclusion" would be more accurate than "last minute inclusion"

Also you could say Krystal is more Fox-y than Wolf or Dr. Mario is more Mario-y than Luigi. What's your point?

I also don't know what bias you're insinuating at. I don't think Goroh should be included in the first place (F-Zero has been dead for a while now and isn't a very prevalent series in the first place), but if he is, and it's not as a last-minute addition, you might as well make him unique.

He is unique. The moves he borrows from falcon are very different and a lot of his attacks are sword attacks. Including his side special. He's the first character to be a combination of sword and physical body attacks. Making his entire move set based around the katana would not be unique when Takamaru is already apart of the roster. It seems pretty excessive when Samurai Goroh doesn't even use his katana to the extent you are proposing

Lastly, taking the same weapon and making two distinct movesets from it is the height of creativity

I don't even know what that means. If that's the case why wasn't Chrom added? I'm skeptical that you would come up with two unique and completely creative move set based on the EXACT same weapon. What's the point? If it was that simple there would be no problem adding Chrom. Even if Goroh's Smash attacks with the katana and Takamaru's smash attacks with the Katana were different, it wouldn't make it creative. Just because something's different doesn't mean it's creative. Just the fact that they are both using the same weapon makes it uninteresting. It doesn't matter if Takamaru swings it one way and Goroh slashes it another. It's still a Samurrai with a katana.

not the abject lack of it. With Takamaru's use of shurikens, windmill swords, lightning, invisibility, etc. as well as his agility and orthodox katana swordplay,

You are completely ignoring the fact that there are moves outside of 4 specials. What about the Smash attacks, tilts, aerial attacks. What about all that? If Takamaru uses his Katana for those attacks (which he does) what is Goroh gonna do? You'd be hard pressed to create two entirely different move sets of a Samurai using a katana that was creative and not completely desperate. And I mean the actual move set. Not just the specials.

he'd play nothing like the Goroh I outlined.

I'm sorry, but that's simply a lie

Kudos on the Dr. Mario call, but all those other ones had sizeable contingents on both sides (except Dark Pit where the vast majority did believe he would be a clone, iirc they were more saying he could be unique), it's not really a big deal having made those predictions.

I didn't say it was impressive or a bid deal. I said it was funny. Not because of the characters, but because what I said about those characters. And the majority of people on this thread were arguing against me when it came to Dark Pit.

And for long periods of time you did have Chrom and Ridley and Wolf on your roster, so let's not get too crazy with the "I was right, I was right" game. We can all play it.

Long periods before Smash Wii U/3DS was even revealed. And it was only because I bought into your apologetic. If you go back to the forums you will find me arguing against Chrom & Ridley before and after the game was revealed. And yes, I have added characters to a roster because a majority of users ridiculed me otherwise. This is evident by recorded posts and it's why I don't base the validity of my arguments on how many people think I'm right or think I'm illogical anymore. Because Sakurai ended up proving the very points that I caved in on discarding.

And you can go ahead and knock it off now. Stop mocking me as if I'm prancing around like "I was right, I was right" and "getting crazy with it." Then having Swampasaur complain that I'm not respecting you and bringing up irrelevant history and grudges.

All I said was that it was funny that Sakurai said some of the exact same things that I did. Stop putting words in my mouth and creating positions and mentalities I don't hold to mock me. I'm trying to respect you because you're an intelligent user, but this is getting obnoxious and insulting.

 

[Luigi The President]

The definition of a hybrid is not a character being identical to another. It's a combination of two things. And a "later inclusion" would be more accurate than "last minute inclusion"

Also you could say Krystal is more Fox-y than Wolf or Dr. Mario is more Mario-y than Luigi. What's your point?


He is unique. The moves he borrows from falcon are very different and a lot of his attacks are sword attacks. Including his side special. He's the first character to be a combination of sword and physical body attacks. Making his entire move set based around the katana would not be unique when Takamaru is already apart of the roster. It seems pretty excessive when Samurai Goroh doesn't even use his katana to the extent you are proposing


I don't even know what that means. If that's the case why wasn't Chrom added? I'm skeptical that you would come up with two unique and completely creative move set based on the EXACT same weapon. What's the point? If it was that simple there would be no problem adding Chrom. Even if Goroh's Smash attacks with the katana and Takamaru's smash attacks with the Katana were different, it wouldn't make it creative. Just because something's different doesn't mean it's creative. Just the fact that they are both using the same weapon makes it uninteresting. It doesn't matter if Takamaru swings it one way and Goroh slashes it another. It's still a Samurrai with a katana.


You are completely ignoring the fact that there are moves outside of 4 specials. What about the Smash attacks, tilts, aerial attacks. What about all that? If Takamaru uses his Katana for those attacks (which he does) what is Goroh gonna do? You'd be hard pressed to create two entirely different move sets of a Samurai using a katana that was creative and not completely desperate. And I mean the actual move set. Not just the specials.


I'm sorry, but that's simply a lie



I didn't say it was impressive or a bid deal. I said it was funny. Not because of the characters, but because what I said about those characters. And the majority of people on this thread were arguing against me when it came to Dark Pit.


Long periods before Smash Wii U/3DS was even revealed. And it was only because I bought into your apologetic. If you go back to the forums you will find me arguing against Chrom & Ridley before and after the game was revealed. And yes, I have added characters to a roster because a majority of users ridiculed me otherwise. This is evident by recorded posts and it's why I don't base the validity of my arguments on how many people think I'm right or think I'm illogical anymore. Because Sakurai ended up proving the very points that I caved in on discarding.

And you can go ahead and knock it off now. Stop mocking me as if I'm prancing around like "I was right, I was right" and "getting crazy with it." Then having Swampasaur complain that I'm not respecting you and bringing up irrelevant history and grudges.

All I said was that it was funny that Sakurai said some of the exact same things that I did. Stop putting words in my mouth and creating positions and mentalities I don't hold to mock me. I'm trying to respect you because you're an intelligent user, but this is getting obnoxious and insulting.

Honestly you're the obnoxious and insulting one by now. He is not mocking you at all. He's right, you are doing "I was right" as well, he only stated the facts. You are barely respecting him by now.

Anyways..
Marth and Ike are both swordsman. CONFIRMED UNORIGINAL CLONES.
Meta Knight and Link are both swordsman. CONFIRMED UNORIGINAL CLONES.

Except THEY AREN'T. All 4 of these fighters don't even resemble eachother outside of their weapon. And why would it not be the same with Goroh and Takamaru? Katanas would function as swords in Smash, so they'd be swordfighters; why would this make them clones of eachother? Just because they're samurais? Samurais in rank, yeah, plus is Goroh even a samurai or is that just his stage name?

Takamaru could use his projectiles and a much more refined and clean katana moveset but Goroh could use a reckless powerhouse katana moveset. They would not be much at all like eachother. Just like Marth and Ike the swordsman aren't like eachother.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

That's not to say I wasn't wrong when it came to things I thought were crazy. I just find it funny that when it came to Chrom, Ridley, Namco characters, and clones, Sakurai's quotes were pretty much exact copies of mine. Despite them being deemed laughable.

If you thought that was me getting in your face and going "I'm right, I'm right, I'm right". I have no idea how you expect me to act.
N3ON

Honestly you're the obnoxious and insulting one by now. He is not mocking you at all. He's right, you are doing "I was right" as well, he only stated the facts.

Yeah, you and I are done. Basically you can treat me however you want and I can't even criticize you for it. Nice attitude. I was not prancing around yelling about how right I am. I simply pointed out that we all have times where we act like the other is crazy and are proven wrong and that it was funny that Sakurai's quotes were so similar to mine.

So stop! Really. Take your own advice and monitor your own manners.

You are barely respecting him by now.

You're basically a bully now. You're basically gonna sit there and tell me I'm an obnoxious jerk because I combat your arguments with the exact same attitude you use (which you'll prove later in this post.) and then when people mock me because I actually point out I was right about something, you act like they're all in your face. You're gonna call me names and then say "Yeah, well he's right. And if you have a problem with his accusation, YOU'RE the one being rude." You just act however you want, and If I do exactly what you're doing, I'm the one stepping out of line. If I was combating you in All Caps and calling you names you'd have a problem with it. It's all justified because you're right and I'm wrong.

It doesn't matter how I feel. It just matters how you and people who agree with you feel. You're so hypocritical. You act like all you're arguments are obvious so you justify you're condescension and start posting in All caps and then when someone disagrees with you in the same way orjust points out they were right about something, you complain that they're a meanie head.

Anyways..
Marth and Ike are both swordsman. CONFIRMED UNORIGINAL CLONES.
Meta Knight and Link are both swordsman. CONFIRMED UNORIGINAL CLONES.

Probably because THEIR SWORDS ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! What is it with the inability to make analogies here?
When you make comparisons, take a couple of seconds to make sure what you're comparing is actually comparable.
For Example:
Correct Comparison: A Katana = A Katana
Incorrect Comparison: A Thin Sword = A Big Heavy Sword
Incorrect Comparison: Master Sword = Tiny little sword wielded by a tiny little puff ball.
If you don't even attempt to make fair analogies that adhere to some sort of logic or were made in more than a seconds thought and yet you condescendingly post them in All Caps, how can you expect my responses to be fully coated in sugar?

Except THEY AREN'T. All 4 of these fighters don't even resemble eachother outside of their weapon.

Which is why your argument falls apart COMPLETELY.

And why would it not be the same with Goroh and Takamaru? Katanas would function as swords in Smash, so they'd be swordfighters; why would this make them clones of eachother?

Who even said they were clones.


I'm done arguing over who is the bigger meanie head. Especialy after this. If you can't handle a forum argument. Use the ignore button.

 

[Deleted member]

• Mario's F.L.U.D.D. has been changed to the Galaxy Spin which has also been given to Luigi. Now Mario, Luigi, and Dr. Mario's moves are in harmony. However Dr. Mario's does not emit stars, it is still the same.

Oh great, let's take away the only thing Dr. Mario's got going for him! You might as well just remove him entirely.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I was hoping you'd matured Saturn, but you haven't.

You've driven out a few people and are angering others who are usually nice guys.

We brought up old times because they are becoming relevant again. Because you've gone back to the same things that got you banned from the character forum in the first place.

I'm not asking you to change opinions. I mean it's your roster dude and I've got nothing against a good debate. But you're being disrespectful when N3ON didn't do anything wrong.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I didn't think Mewtwo or Lucas should have been cut. They are some of the most important characters of their series. But, sometimes really important characters get cut because of time constraints or just to bring in a more relevant character like Toon Link or Lucario.


Lucina is still there. I kept her because she is a descendant of Marth and because Awakening is so popular. But, a game "saving" a series is not a reason to add a character. It's not common knowledge among casual fans. That's more of a trivia.


I don't know if it's right to compare a fully fledged character to a clone, but I would say it makes more sense to cut the newest character in favor of the newest character, unless they have more of a significance like Ike & Lucario did. Imo Roy hold's more significance himself. He's more popular and he is part of a family that appears in multiple games.

The reason your Mewtwo and Lucas comparison doesn't work is because they were cut because of time constraints, whereas there are no such things in rosters like thus where it's literally what you want
Except Robin is more popular than Lucina in Smash due to Robin feeling like Fire Emblem character brought straight from his game whereas Lucina is GirlMarth who's weaker.
Roy being more popular is an outright lie, From official popularity polls, Robin was the fifth most popular character in the franchise. Roy wasn't even in the top 10

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The reason your Mewtwo and Lucas comparison doesn't work is because they were cut because of time constraints, whereas there are no such things in rosters like thus where it's literally what you want

I understand that, but in the case that there were time constraints, Robin and Greninja would unarguably be cut. The problem is that as long as a character has ANY merits, there is no way they'll be cut according to the smash fanbase. Characters aren't just cut because they aren't important. It's about priority.

Except Robin is more popular than Lucina in Smash due to Robin feeling like Fire Emblem character brought straight from his game whereas Lucina is GirlMarth who's weaker.

You can't compare the time it takes to make a new character to the time it takes to make a clone.

Roy being more popular is an outright lie, From official popularity polls, Robin was the fifth most popular character in the franchise. Roy wasn't even in the top 10

I don't believe I said Roy was MORE popular. However he is one of the most popular requests Super Smash Bros.

But you're being disrespectful when N3ON didn't do anything wrong.

That's a lie and you know it. Instead of standing on your moral pedestal talking about how mature you are (which is incredibly immature). why don't you give some respect and you'll get some respect. You're a hypocrite and the only one resorting to actual insults.

Like seriously, if you actually think you and N3ON are acting better than me....

 

[Luigi The President]

If you thought that was me getting in your face and going "I'm right, I'm right, I'm right". I have no idea how you expect me to act.
N3ON


Yeah, you and I are done. Basically you can treat me however you want and I can't even criticize you for it. Nice attitude. I was not prancing around yelling about how right I am. I simply pointed out that we all have times where we act like the other is crazy and are proven wrong and that it was funny that Sakurai's quotes were so similar to mine.

So stop! Really. Take your own advice and monitor your own manners.


You're basically a bully now. You're basically gonna sit there and tell me I'm an obnoxious jerk because I combat your arguments with the exact same attitude you use (which you'll prove later in this post.) and then when people mock me because I actually point out I was right about something, you act like they're all in your face. You're gonna call me names and then say "Yeah, well he's right. And if you have a problem with his accusation, YOU'RE the one being rude." You just act however you want, and If I do exactly what you're doing, I'm the one stepping out of line. If I was combating you in All Caps and calling you names you'd have a problem with it. It's all justified because you're right and I'm wrong.

It doesn't matter how I feel. It just matters how you and people who agree with you feel. You're so hypocritical. You act like all you're arguments are obvious so you justify you're condescension and start posting in All caps and then when someone disagrees with you in the same way orjust points out they were right about something, you complain that they're a meanie head.


Probably because THEIR SWORDS ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! What is it with the inability to make analogies here?
When you make comparisons, take a couple of seconds to make sure what you're comparing is actually comparable.
For Example:
Correct Comparison: A Katana = A Katana
Incorrect Comparison: A Thin Sword = A Big Heavy Sword
Incorrect Comparison: Master Sword = Tiny little sword wielded by a tiny little puff ball.
If you don't even attempt to make fair analogies that adhere to some sort of logic or were made in more than a seconds thought and yet you condescendingly post them in All Caps, how can you expect my responses to be fully coated in sugar?




Which is why your argument falls apart COMPLETELY.


Who even said they were clones.


I'm done arguing over who is the bigger meanie head. Especialy after this. If you can't handle a forum argument. Use the ignore button.

I don't recall calling you names but alright. Also, I never said you can't criticize me for it, now did I? I like to think I've got some pretty good matters, but sorry I had to put them down for a minute so I could discuss with you.

You're...calling ME, the bully? Yeah we're done as you said lol.

I didn't know your obbsession with body types carried over into swords. Either way, they are still swords, and can be wielded any way. Ike has the strength to use his big heavy sword like a thin sword.

Plus, as I said, Takamaru has projectiles and a more refined moveset then Goroh. Honestly? This is ridiculous. Like the last page has been arguing over if Goroh should have a less original moveset or a more original one.

And what exactly are you talking about? My arguments are obvious? Please give me examples because I try to see everyone's arguments equally.

I mean, you're the one who got banned for getting pissed at others and spawning forum arguments, so I wouldn't pull that on me.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

That's a lie and you know it. Instead of standing on your moral pedestal talking about how mature you are (which is incredibly immature). why don't you give some respect and you'll get some respect. You're a hypocrite and the only one resorting to actual insults.

Like seriously, if you actually think you and N3ON are acting better than me....

And this is why you are not respected around here Noah. Like I said, you haven't changed at all when you're doing EXACTLY what you're doing two years ago: bashing, flaming, insulting, and mocking people. Enough. Is. Enough. Character debates are welcome and we're all for it. Picking us off sentence by sentence isn't something we'd look forward to when someone gets too worked up on it. Go get some fresh air man. I heard it's good for your soul too.

I'm done arguing over who is the bigger meanie head. Especialy after this. If you can't handle a forum argument. Use the ignore button.

How ironic for you to say that and I don't see you using it since you're pretty quick at coming back and insulting people. Chill out!


Can we seriously get a mod here? This is out of control with Saturn being Saturn




Now for the sake of a healthy conversation, Crash Bandicoot would make an awesome addition to the Smash crew. Thinking about him in puts a very simple 90's war between Mario Sonic and Crash in the same game would be nice!

 

[Luigi The President]

And this is why you are not respected around here Noah. Like I said, you haven't changed at all when you're doing EXACTLY what you're doing two years ago: bashing, flaming, insulting, and mocking people. Enough. Is. Enough. Character debates are welcome and we're all for it. Picking us off sentence by sentence isn't something we'd look forward to when someone gets too worked up on it. Go get some fresh air man. I heard it's good for your soul too.

How ironic for you to say that and I don't see you using it since you're pretty quick at coming back and insulting people. Chill out!


Can we seriously get a mod here? This is out of control with Saturn being Saturn




Now for the sake of a healthy conversation, Crash Bandicoot would make an awesome addition to the Smash crew. Thinking about him in puts a very simple 90's war between Mario Sonic and Crash in the same game would be nice!

THAANK YOU

But yeah. Crash would be a really great addition. I feel that Sakurai can work his magic and make it happen, despite how dead Crash is right now.

 

[Ura]

Crash in Smash would be a dream come true for me as he's my most wanted 3rd party character.

I'm a bit cynical about his chances though with the rumors that Sony bought the rights to Crash again for a PS4 game meaning he'll be unlikely unless Nintendo can work out a deal with Sony. Still glad to see the Crash series revived though.

 

[Megadoomer]

I never really got into the Crash series (only played Wrath of Cortex on the Gamecube, and I never owned a Sony system), but he seems like a decent choice.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

That's a lie and you know it. Instead of standing on your moral pedestal talking about how mature you are (which is incredibly immature). why don't you give some respect and you'll get some respect. You're a hypocrite and the only one resorting to actual insults.

Like seriously, if you actually think you and N3ON are acting better than me....

But they are....as well as most of the other people posting here.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

How about this: for now on, don't start up topics about how others need to start treating others. It may have a chance at solving the issue, but it also derails the thread and could start up another heated debated. Take it to a PM or something so the thread doesn't suffer more. Either that, or just get a mod in right away.

 

[Ura]

(only played Wrath of Cortex

That's your first problem lol. Try playing the first 3 Crash games instead. His series is a really fun platformer. Not as good as say Banjo but still an awesome platformer. Twinsanity is also a great game and my personal favorite despite it's short length.

Would be awesome if somehow Crash, Banjo, and Rayman all got in the game. We would have 4 of the biggest platformers in the history of gaming in one fighting game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I understand that, but in the case that there were time constraints, Robin and Greninja would unarguably be cut. The problem is that as long as a character has ANY merits, there is no way they'll be cut according to the smash fanbase. Characters aren't just cut because they aren't important. It's about priority.


You can't compare the time it takes to make a new character to the time it takes to make a clone.


I don't believe I said Roy was MORE popular. However he is one of the most popular requests Super Smash Bros.

Nope. There is no way Robin would be cut due to time constraints. Want to know why? His game saved the franchise and he brought Magic and Weapon Durability into the mix, 2 things Smash hadn't dare try to bring from Fire Emblem, despite being staples from the series. And Greninja is being pushed a LOT. He's also pushing this new Jojo Stand Mega Evolution thing for Gen VII despite being Gen VI

I can. As Lucina was added in last minute, meaning Robin had MUCH more priority, especially as in the next Smash it's simply a matter of porting the characters

Nope. Was he popular? Yes. Why was he popular? The same reason people begged for Mewtwo, Lucas and Wolf. Because they were playable in previous installments

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Swamp Sensei
Luigi The President

But they are....as well as most of the other people posting here.

No, not really. Bring up any quote of mine and I can show you one from someone else that is just as comparable. Or even better, don't. This is a forum for Super Smash Bros. Not an intervention where we gang up on users and act superior every time a debate gets heated (Especially Crushermania)Calling me immature, obnoxious, saying everyone is better than me, is not much of an improvement. I would say that I wish you would consider my feelings, but I won't. Because I don't use that tactic unless it's completely hypocritical.

I'm not the one throwing out direct insults and standing on a high horse here. I admit that I get heated. And I get heated when people strawman arguments and intentionally misinterpret them whilst simultaneously acting condescending and as if everything I say is laughable, which regardless of whether that is true or not, is insulting and provoking. So if that's not something you can handle, please use the ignore button. Or let's actually talk about what's relevant to this forum discussion. I'm done addressing attitude complaints.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nope. There is no way Robin would be cut due to time constraints. Want to know why? His game saved the franchise and he brought Magic and Weapon Durability into the mix, 2 things Smash hadn't dare try to bring from Fire Emblem, despite being staples from the series. And Greninja is being pushed a LOT. He's also pushing this new Jojo Stand Mega Evolution thing for Gen VII despite being Gen VI

This is what I mean when I say a lot of Smash fans can't admit that any character will ever get cut. Saying there's no way he will cut is a bold claim. Robin and Greninja may be important, but what matters is who is more important. Marth, Ike, and a new Fire Emblem character are going to take higher priority UNLESS Robin appears in another Fire Emblem game. The point is that Robin doesn't compare to characters like Marth, Ike, Bowser Jr, Rosalina, Shulk, Duck Hunt, Pac-Man, etc. It's not about "Well this character has merits, so..." It's about that character merits compared to other characters. Whether the game he was in saved the series or not (which has not been proven to affect his inclusion), he's the newest character of the newest game. Unlike Ike, who was not only new, but the only other Fire Emblem character to appear as the main character more than once. Making him the second most important.

So by your logic it's impossib that ANY characters might be cut or replaced in the next Smash game. Which is a pointless argument because we don't know how popular Greninja will remain or if Awakening receives a sequel. (which in that case Robin would probably just be replaced with the Avatar of that game)

I can. As Lucina was added in last minute, meaning Robin had MUCH more priority, especially as in the next Smash it's simply a matter of porting the characters

But, you're implying that I replace Lucina with Robin. Which would mean that the man hours it takes would be equivalent. And if all that matters is that Fire Emblem saved the series, it shouldn't be a big deal.

Nope. Was he popular? Yes. Why was he popular? The same reason people begged for Mewtwo, Lucas and Wolf. Because they were playable in previous installments

I think that's an oversimplification.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Swamp Sensei

No, not really. Bring up any quote of mine and I can show you one from someone else that is just as comparable. Or even better, don't. This is a forum for Super Smash Bros. Not an intervention where we gang up on users and act superior every time a debate gets heated. Calling me immature, obnoxious, saying everyone is better than me, is not much of an improvement. I would say that I wish you would consider my feelings, but I won't. Because I don't use that tactic unless it's completely hypocritical.

I'm not the one throwing out direct insults and standing on a high horse here. I admit that I get heated. And I get heated when people strawman arguments and intentionally misinterpret them whilst simultaneously acting condescending and as if everything I say is laughable, which regardless of whether that is true or not, is insulting and provoking. So if that's not something you can handle, please use the ignore button. Or let's actually talk about what's relevant to this forum discussion.

I think you're forgetting something. You see people thinking lowly of you, but you don't get why. People found your arguments to be illogical, especially Goroh's moveset you made, but you didn't seem to get why people weren't happy with that. Also, you may not realise it, but the way you wrote this very post comes off as ad hominem or however you spell it. And about 'gang up on users', want to know why? They disagree with you, and thus are telling you what they don't like about it. They aren't trying to gang up on you, but rather, giving criticism or correcting you on misinformation

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think you're forgetting something. You see people thinking lowly of you, but you don't get why. People found your arguments to be illogical, especially Goroh's moveset you made, but you didn't seem to get why people weren't happy with that. Also, you may not realise it, but the way you wrote this very post comes off as ad hominem or however you spell it. And about 'gang up on users', want to know why? They disagree with you, and thus are telling you what they don't like about it. They aren't trying to gang up on you, but rather, giving criticism or correcting you on misinformation

I'm done addressing attitude complaints.