we knowgetting back on topic, I'm sorry to say that Tails may not arrive until Smash 6.
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I Will Believe In Myself: Miles "Tails" Prower Support Thread
- Thread starter Coricus
- Start date
Otoad64
Smash Lord
oh I didn't even realise this thread was still active lol
it stopped giving me alerts for some reason
it stopped giving me alerts for some reason
silenthunder
Banned via Administration
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I think a lot of people want another sonic rep. I made a poll and sonic characters are doing good, Tails the best.
Louie G.
Smash Hero
Kinda surprised this thread hasn't been getting more attention as of late - I guess it's just a me thing out of nowhere, but I've personally been finding myself pretty confident in Tails' odds as one of the final two characters. I wouldn't say I'm a supporter (in fact I'd rather not get more Sonic over Puyo), but I wanted to share some of my thoughts on the matter and see what his fans think.
First thing to acknowledge is the Mii Costume dilemma. It depends on when you believe these characters were locked in (I think it varies), but if we assume FP2 was locked in somewhere mid-2019, Rex was still a part of the conversation after his costume was developed / sold given Sakurai’s recent Famitsu column on Pyra. I don't believe this helps EVERY costume, but Tails is part of the very first batch back in April 2019. To me this is a bit of a grey area, as I imagine some negotiations were still underway and Joker's success may have been what drove enough confidence to commit to a full second pass in the first place.
Something that I feel is important to acknowledge is, disregarding SNK (which is kind of a special case), SEGA is the only returning company to be entirely absent from FP2. Of course this can be easily explained by Joker's pass and the return of all Smash 4 SEGA costumes, but I still find this to be interesting. Every FP2 character thus far has been from a company that already has a presence in Smash - and more specifically, companies that had a character in FP1 as well. This has me believing that Nintendo is worried less about expanding its reach this time around would rather use what is readily available to them.
Beyond this point is the fact that a whopping 3/4 of these characters have been from series that already have a presence in Smash, and half of them are from series that are already on the roster. This doesn't necessarily guarantee this trend will continue, but at this point it's a lot more significant evidence than Sephiroth on his own. I'm convinced that we'll see this happen one more time before DLC is over, and I've struggled to decide who that could be.
Recently I've landed on Tails though, mostly because I have faith in the addition of more SEGA content and I believe that Sonic's representation has a lot of room to grow. The other character who I see as viable is Arle - one of my personal Most Wanted characters - because of Puyo's longstanding significance to the puzzle game genre, extreme popularity / notoriety in Japan and strong relationship with Nintendo in general. But I've become wary of Arle, and would rather not get my hopes too high. Puyo is still fairly niche in the west, and I believe a second Sonic character would be a much safer and more confident decision for Nintendo to make. So it's bred from a bit of pessimism on my end, but I do believe Tails has a significant edge over Arle in that respect.
And then there's Eggman, but I'm personally not convinced. When there is a clear secondary protagonist available - Luigi or Diddy Kong for example, and Falco was chosen to be cloned over Wolf - Smash has a tendency to prioritize them over the villain. And I believe Tails' moveset potential is clearer than Eggman's, very easy to envision in Smash and very popular in his own right. As I saw acknowledged earlier in the thread, Tails has been a request since arguably Melee while Eggman is a fairly recent movement. Most of all though I think Sephiroth has really owned the villain role in FP2 with the emphasis on the Sephiroth Challenge and whatnot. It would feel odd to me to make such a big deal out of this iconic boss character in Smash and emphasize that role for him only to turn around and do it a second time. A bit arbitrary, but those are my hangups with Eggman and why I believe Tails would get precedent.
TLDR: I think Tails has a pretty good shot because of SEGA's current absence from FP2 and the precedent of adding characters from companies and series that Nintendo has already worked with in regards to Smash. We'll see how it pans out - I still feel pretty lost as to where we can go from here - but Tails is currently one of my more confident picks and falls pretty neatly into place within my expectations.
First thing to acknowledge is the Mii Costume dilemma. It depends on when you believe these characters were locked in (I think it varies), but if we assume FP2 was locked in somewhere mid-2019, Rex was still a part of the conversation after his costume was developed / sold given Sakurai’s recent Famitsu column on Pyra. I don't believe this helps EVERY costume, but Tails is part of the very first batch back in April 2019. To me this is a bit of a grey area, as I imagine some negotiations were still underway and Joker's success may have been what drove enough confidence to commit to a full second pass in the first place.
Something that I feel is important to acknowledge is, disregarding SNK (which is kind of a special case), SEGA is the only returning company to be entirely absent from FP2. Of course this can be easily explained by Joker's pass and the return of all Smash 4 SEGA costumes, but I still find this to be interesting. Every FP2 character thus far has been from a company that already has a presence in Smash - and more specifically, companies that had a character in FP1 as well. This has me believing that Nintendo is worried less about expanding its reach this time around would rather use what is readily available to them.
Beyond this point is the fact that a whopping 3/4 of these characters have been from series that already have a presence in Smash, and half of them are from series that are already on the roster. This doesn't necessarily guarantee this trend will continue, but at this point it's a lot more significant evidence than Sephiroth on his own. I'm convinced that we'll see this happen one more time before DLC is over, and I've struggled to decide who that could be.
Recently I've landed on Tails though, mostly because I have faith in the addition of more SEGA content and I believe that Sonic's representation has a lot of room to grow. The other character who I see as viable is Arle - one of my personal Most Wanted characters - because of Puyo's longstanding significance to the puzzle game genre, extreme popularity / notoriety in Japan and strong relationship with Nintendo in general. But I've become wary of Arle, and would rather not get my hopes too high. Puyo is still fairly niche in the west, and I believe a second Sonic character would be a much safer and more confident decision for Nintendo to make. So it's bred from a bit of pessimism on my end, but I do believe Tails has a significant edge over Arle in that respect.
And then there's Eggman, but I'm personally not convinced. When there is a clear secondary protagonist available - Luigi or Diddy Kong for example, and Falco was chosen to be cloned over Wolf - Smash has a tendency to prioritize them over the villain. And I believe Tails' moveset potential is clearer than Eggman's, very easy to envision in Smash and very popular in his own right. As I saw acknowledged earlier in the thread, Tails has been a request since arguably Melee while Eggman is a fairly recent movement. Most of all though I think Sephiroth has really owned the villain role in FP2 with the emphasis on the Sephiroth Challenge and whatnot. It would feel odd to me to make such a big deal out of this iconic boss character in Smash and emphasize that role for him only to turn around and do it a second time. A bit arbitrary, but those are my hangups with Eggman and why I believe Tails would get precedent.
TLDR: I think Tails has a pretty good shot because of SEGA's current absence from FP2 and the precedent of adding characters from companies and series that Nintendo has already worked with in regards to Smash. We'll see how it pans out - I still feel pretty lost as to where we can go from here - but Tails is currently one of my more confident picks and falls pretty neatly into place within my expectations.
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Peripuff
Smash Journeyman
Oh hey Louie, I certainly hope you’re right in your assertion that Sega is getting a character, and I even moreso hope you are right in that it pretty much comes down to Arle and Tails (considering those two are my first and third MWs respectively), though, while my gut is telling me that we are likely getting another Sega, I think it would be best to not be too presumptuous over this possibility. Let’s not forget that Capcom did not get content in FP2 until literally earlier this month. In regards to what that means for Sega, while it is looking good at this point in my opinion, that is something that can change very quickly.
That being said, the absence of Tails from the base game in a lot of ways (including being outprioritized by Knuckles in Assist Trophy selection), has been something of an eyebrow raiser for me since the launch of the game. It’s definitely not anything concrete, but I suppose that is something to think about. While the same would apply to Eggman, I can only hope it has something to do with a potential stage boss presence he may inhabit, (just because I think that would be really cool, nothing against Eggman or anything.)
Regardless, I do agree that Tails would most likely be the one chosen over Eggman based on past precedent, but I have to admit that we don’t know if Sakurai’s view on this has changed over time. The last time a character of this caliber was added to my recollection is Palutena, and while that is fairly recent, the surge of villains that have been added to roster in Ultimate may be something to keep in mind. I do agree they probably aren’t doing Eggman in FP2, just based on how much emphasis they placed on Sephiroth’s villain status (if you need a reminder, rewatch his Sakurai Presents, it’s everywhere).
That’s overall how I’m thinking, I feel as though Arle also has a pretty decent shot, and if my dreams were reality they would both be in FP2 but who knows I suppose. I’m excited to see how the rest of the pass goes down.
Now, speaking of Tails’s potential inclusion. I must ask, what stage would you all hope or expect to see coming alongside him? Sonic has so many locations with such a wide variety in terms of visuals, and yet we have two green hill-esque stages. I would hope that the stage would be representative of the more mechanical aspect of the Sonic series, though a specific example escapes me at the moment. One idea I had recently was Tropical Resort, I think it would be pretty amazing. Imagine if Eggman was able to speak through the speakers to comment on the match like he does in Sonic Colors, similarly to how Azurda does in the Cloud Sea of Alrest. Perhaps he may even interrupt the battle himself at certain points, assuming hazards are turned on of course. It would also guarantee Tropical Resort’s theme, and that is one that I really enjoy listening to.
Thanks for reading my enormous block of text
That being said, the absence of Tails from the base game in a lot of ways (including being outprioritized by Knuckles in Assist Trophy selection), has been something of an eyebrow raiser for me since the launch of the game. It’s definitely not anything concrete, but I suppose that is something to think about. While the same would apply to Eggman, I can only hope it has something to do with a potential stage boss presence he may inhabit, (just because I think that would be really cool, nothing against Eggman or anything.)
Regardless, I do agree that Tails would most likely be the one chosen over Eggman based on past precedent, but I have to admit that we don’t know if Sakurai’s view on this has changed over time. The last time a character of this caliber was added to my recollection is Palutena, and while that is fairly recent, the surge of villains that have been added to roster in Ultimate may be something to keep in mind. I do agree they probably aren’t doing Eggman in FP2, just based on how much emphasis they placed on Sephiroth’s villain status (if you need a reminder, rewatch his Sakurai Presents, it’s everywhere).
That’s overall how I’m thinking, I feel as though Arle also has a pretty decent shot, and if my dreams were reality they would both be in FP2 but who knows I suppose. I’m excited to see how the rest of the pass goes down.
Now, speaking of Tails’s potential inclusion. I must ask, what stage would you all hope or expect to see coming alongside him? Sonic has so many locations with such a wide variety in terms of visuals, and yet we have two green hill-esque stages. I would hope that the stage would be representative of the more mechanical aspect of the Sonic series, though a specific example escapes me at the moment. One idea I had recently was Tropical Resort, I think it would be pretty amazing. Imagine if Eggman was able to speak through the speakers to comment on the match like he does in Sonic Colors, similarly to how Azurda does in the Cloud Sea of Alrest. Perhaps he may even interrupt the battle himself at certain points, assuming hazards are turned on of course. It would also guarantee Tropical Resort’s theme, and that is one that I really enjoy listening to.
Thanks for reading my enormous block of text
Wario Wario Wario
Smash Legend
My Tails stage of choice would be pretty much any zone from the Classic trilogy or Mania. The Classic games need a bit more rep in Smash IMO, especially when it comes to music. If I had to choose just one it'd either be Press Garden or Sonic 1 Special Stage. Chemical Plant or Casino Night would make more sense objectively speaking though.
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Otoad64
Smash Lord
I have always thought Chemical Plant made the most sense for a Tails stage, it's basically the 2nd major Zone after Green Hill, but Casino Night would also be cool. Either one would definitely stand out from the other 2 Sonic stages visually
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Peripuff
Smash Journeyman
Chemical Plant and Casino Night are two great choices, I often associate both of those with Tails so I suppose it would make a lot of sense. A Mania stage like Press Garden would be great to see, I hope to see as much music shoved into his pack as possible.
Wario Wario Wario
Smash Legend
With music I'd want more Sonic R songs; some Knuckles' Chaotix songs; Dilapidated Way and Casino Park; and, if it's not too much of a copyright hastle, Ice Cap Zone.
Otoad64
Smash Lord
I would like to think Nintendo's budget is high enough to get Ice Cap, but seeing the omissions in the other DLC packs makes me not so sure
Louie G.
Smash Hero
This is very important to acknowledge, there's certainly room for doubt. I do think the situations are a bit different since Capcom had content explicitly being held off, while Sega has already dumped its returning load back in FP1 and brought new Mii Costumes to boot. So if anything my hesitation comes in the form of wondering whether or not that's deemed "enough" for Sega and they're simply all dried up. I would hope not since there's a lot that they haven't covered yet.
As for stages, I think Chemical Plant would be pretty much ideal for Tails, probably the next most iconic and frequently used classic locale after Green HIll Zone itself and it's from the game that Tails originated from. I think it also sets the stage for Eggman to have some stage role, which would be ideal - having both Tails and Eggman in prominent roles would make Sonic feel a lot more complete. I could see the stage being inspired by the place where you fight Robotnik in Sonic 2, with the flipping panels underneath.
I've been thinking that we could get something from Sonic Adventure though, maybe Station Square or Emerald Coast? I dunno, I feel like that's something they could lean into with a Tails pass since Sonic Adventure doesn't have too much in Smash as is and... it's speculatory, but Sonic's recent anniversary stuff portraying Adventure as its own unique era has me believing they may have some things in store. I'd be pretty cool with that, I have a very clear mental picture of how this stage could look and it's warmed me up on the idea.
I made a songlist a few days ago where I tried to take both of these ideas into account and create a pretty satisfying spread, let me know what you guys think!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvlGwKHNoKMpyR9ReOLxQZSzV5pSVP6gJ
I really agree with this too. I will say if Sonic's Smash representation succeeds at anything it's how it actually manages to represent a good chunk of the series' history from beginning to present. Fitting in songs from all those games though means we're pretty much stuck with a bunch of main themes rather than some really cool and iconic additional tracks. It makes Sonic's music lineup feel pretty surface level and underwhelming even though he's got a pretty good amount.
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Otoad64
Smash Lord
I think this is a decent selection for representing the Classic/Adventure era, if you're assuming they can't get the rights for the Sonic 3 music than there isn't too much missing, but I would throw in Hill Top or Casino Night. Sky Sanctuary should be doable though so I would put that in, and if he's coming with Knuckles's and Amy's themes then Eggman's from SA2 would be appreciated. Also the final boss theme from Sonic Heroes
there are a few songs from the Modern games I would put in but focusing on Adventure and Classic this is good.
Peripuff
Smash Journeyman
That's certainly a solid selection, and the abundance of Sonic Adventure songs would make the Sonic Adventure fangirl inside of me jump with glee. I can't imagine the more modern games would be absent from selection, however, especially considering how they picked Tropical Resort of all songs to come with Sonic upon his entrance into Puyo Puyo Tetris 2.
Edit: I would also really like to see Pleasure Castle/Twinkle Park in the game, especially if we get some sort of Casino-type stage
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SonicMario
Smash Master
I'll admit this post certainly raised my hopes slightly though even putting all this into account. It sort of makes Tails the Waluigi of Mii costume upgrades. Where yeah if, and it's a BIG if, it happens whether we have an Assist promoted to Playable within the game or a Mii costume especially a DLC 3rd party Mii Costume (Granted one of the oldest ones since unlike in Smash 4. Tails and Knuckles were like literally the fastest (No pun intended) DLC costumes to return) promoted to playable then there's a good shot. But of course the problem is still the big if. It's just safer to assume we'll have to wait another day (AKA the next game) for what will certainly be the strongest case yet for more Sonic characters next time.
Though I would feel sorry for those of you who are Arle fans hoping for their shot as well. ^^' (Goodness knows what the reaction of the Puyo Puyo twitter would be if another Sonic character made it into the pass after they posted the sad Arle after some DLC characters made it in lol)
dont be ridiculous, there arent nearly enough tails memes by self entitled fans
SonicMario
Smash Master
I meant mostly in "If (A promotion from an already established role other then a base game spirit (Min-Min & Pyra/Mythra)) happens, they're one of if not the strongest possibility." Again I'll stress this is a big, big, chasm, of an if no matter what. But yeah
i was only teasing
KirbyWorshipper2465
Smash Legend
So, now that people like Aaron Webber are running the franchise, will it make negotiations for Sonic stuff in Smash simpler in the long run, or not?
who's he?
Wario Wario Wario
Smash Legend
The guy who used to run the Sonic Twitter.
Otoad64
Smash Lord
maybe, but I think he said that Knuckles or Shadow should be the 2nd Sonic rep, so might not be good for Tails specifically
KirbyWorshipper2465
Smash Legend
Maybe, but getting a second Sonic character would be better than none at all, so it'd already be an improvement from things barely budging since Brawl.
In the meantime, I guess we may have to wait for the next five years or so before we find out for sure.
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kaithehedgefox
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2017
- Messages
- 1,454
I can already imagine Tails having nightmares of himself getting turned into an assist trophy! At least Tails not being an assist trophy would be respectful. I think Sakurai wanted to respect Crash Bandicoot, which is why Crash didn't get turned into an assist trophy.
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Otoad64
Smash Lord
I mean, I would be cool with almost any Sonic character, but getting Knuckles or Shadow before Tails or even Eggman would sting a little
kaithehedgefox
Smash Lord
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As I mentioned above, at least Sakurai respected Tails for good.
7NATOR
Smash Master
- Joined
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- 4,075
That's the downside of having a 4-way character warfare
Even if Nintendo picks Sonic as a franchise to get a new character, you have a 1/4 chance of your favorite character getting picked, since these 4 all have merits to be playable. Of course this is only if you want a Specific character and not just want a Sonic rep in general
Otoad64
Smash Lord
that's... not why he wasn't an assist trophy lol.
at least it's better than the Zelda fanbase
KirbyWorshipper2465
Smash Legend
Yeah, though there's always weirder options.
Knuckles and Shadow are at least expected (plus I got a guilty pleasure of wanting to see if Shadow can run over fighters with his bike).globalsmashroster.com
Doc Monocle
Smash Ace
Was there any rationale given behind the saying that Knuckles or Shadow would be first?
Otoad64
Smash Lord
that's inaccurate. In fact Tails has since surpassed Eggman Edit: actually just checked and Eggman has now surpassed Tails by one vote
I think it was just that he thought they would work better as fighters
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How did that happen?
kaithehedgefox
Smash Lord
- Joined
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- 1,454
For characters who belong on the roster, not being an assist trophy will respect them at least.
Wario Wario Wario
Smash Legend
That's the exact opposite of why ATs are added. ATs are added out of respect for those characters, not as "haha lets watch the babies cry"
Otoad64
Smash Lord
no, characters are given Assist Trophies in order to respect them if they can't be fighters for one reason or another
edit:
'd
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Doc Monocle
Smash Ace
How did what happen?
KirbyWorshipper2465
Smash Legend
Sorry, I was just quoting the only
-related Global Roster collage I know of.At any rate, us Tifa fans didn't mind
getting over her this time, so it would be nice for the Sonic series supporters to show this level of humility if anyone got in as the second rep. Except if it's one of the Deadly Six, in which case we'd at least just have another face to punch.
7NATOR
Smash Master
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2016
- Messages
- 4,075
And at least those Two fanbases are better than Pokemon. I feel bad for anyone wanting 1 specific Pokemon
He just said he thinks it makes the most Sense...that's really it
Global Smash Roster
It's almost neck and neck, but currently, Eggman is up by one vote
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Also I just felt like posting this but
This video has 182 Million views. That means at least 182 Million people are familiar with Tails, Eggman, Shadow.
I haven't seen videos with Sephiroth that were that big. I only say this because I know the idea of Another Sonic character is undermined, but I think people Sometimes forget that Eggman, Tails, Shadow, & Knuckles are well known characters that people have been wanting to see in Smash for a long while now, especially the latter 3. Eggman being this popular is more recent though, but I'm not gonna get on him considering how important he is to Sonic, plus with him being in the movie
how did the guy in charge of the sonic twitter feed end up in charge?
Doc Monocle
Smash Ace
I wish I knew. I have difficulty keeping up with popular culture. I imagine few people know all the details anyway, but I may be wrong for saying that. Shifts in management could be without widely known reasons(?).