I still don't think we're heading in the right track here.

[HyperEnergy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMSsQuSa5no#t=3m33s

Meta Knight may not break the game, but he's getting pretty close...

This totally baffles me.

 

[Aurasmash14]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMSsQuSa5no#t=3m33s

Meta Knight may not break the game, but he's getting pretty close...

The video wont load... what happened in thar?

 

[Kitamerby]

Azen's playstyle is anything but advanced.

The dude doesn't know **** about any smash game, and his style doesn't have any sort of super secrets buried in it. The dude was just good at video games. <<

In short, this topic is about apparently using inferior tactics until people start punishing you for it, which I'm pretty sure what people are supposed to be doing right now. <<

 

[CRASHiC]

Guys, have you ever tried to steal other techs from other boards?

For instance. Snakes found that if they are holding a gernade, they can shield when they hit the ground on frame 1, as opposed to frame 6.

This works with Lucario as well.

Try to take other techs from the boards, and test it with Lucario.

 

[fonzi21]

Hmm, I watched the close combat video and it's some good stuff, but I was curious to know if your opponent can smash DI out of it?

 

[Mewter]

The video wont load... what happened in thar?

MK's Nado made G&W's bucket obsolete right there.
That lucky wolf.

Edit:
Basically, G&W used his full bucket on wolf and just as he went flying, he was caught in MK's tornado, and survived at 7(6?) percent.

 

[RT]

MK's Tornado went through G&W's bucket. It's ********.

 

[Ilucamy]

I want to contribute more to these boards since I'm sorta back now, but I don't understand what this thread is for (still spammy as always :D)

lol bucket >.>

 

[ScottiePippen]

I want to contribute more to these boards since I'm sorta back now, but I don't understand what this thread is for (still spammy as always :D)

lol bucket >.>

Lack of progression in new metagame discoveries and Force Palm Chaingrab and how it is still usefull. I think.

But in my un-educated opinion I think there are two kinds of Lucario players technical and smart players, technical players can pull off the good combos like close combat and jab cancels into other moves then there are the smart players who just know how to use the moves when they are needed but dont really string together anything special.

 

[RT]

It's more beneficial to be a smart player than being technical, at least from a Lucario standpoint. Lucario's not really techincal...

 

[D. Disciple]

Gotta be smarter than technical. You want technical, play Diddy.

 

[Trela]

Silly Lu Lu's.

My Lucario is a Diddy. That means it's technical. THAT means It's good. THAT means it's useful. THAT means Lucario>Diddy.

-Trela's Theory on Trela's Lucario

 

[Browny]

Diddy being technical? hahahaha

whilst he may be hard to use correctly, that by no means is a result of being technical, you dont need fast hands to glide toss, but to know which direction, and all the different follow ups depending on block/spacing etc is whats hard.

Full on de-synched IC's stuff is crazy technical

 

[RT]

Silly Lu Lu's.

My Lucario is a Diddy. That means it's technical. THAT means It's good. THAT means it's useful. THAT means Lucario>Diddy.

-Trela's Theory on Trela's Lucario

You're so silly Trela. Also, Gnes's Dedede. YEAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAA.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Guys, have you ever tried to steal other techs from other boards?

For instance. Snakes found that if they are holding a gernade, they can shield when they hit the ground on frame 1, as opposed to frame 6.

This works with Lucario as well.

Try to take other techs from the boards, and test it with Lucario.

Quoting for truth.

Speaking of which how is Lucario's Pivot grab?

 

[ScottiePippen]

Lucarios pivot grab is actually good it has a nice range on it, but the only way I see it being added into meta game is using it to throw opponents off stage at high percents for edguard opportunities

 

[fonzi21]

Lucarios Pivot grab is great mind-games. it extends his grab range by a lot, and leads into great lucario offense. Uthrow > Utilt > then pivot grab their aerial spot dodge on heavier characters. to Uthrow > Utilt again. nice little combo at lower percents, and if they start jumping then you get to combo them with Fair's and Nair's. Great way to punish people fast falling air dodges to shield. Also is awesome to catch Wario's into a grab release F-smash

Start charging aura spheres facing your opponent at a distance then if your opponent dashes at you, throw out a pivot grab can catch people off guard and leads into nice combo's.

Throw out an F-smash to ruin someones spacing then when they dash in to try and punish pivot grab, it has great range. catch them off guard.

Pivot grabs punish spot dodges very well, use that to your advantage. It works great on snake. especially the first combo i said. It also catches snake out of his mortar slide, which is a plus.

Punish rolls with it as well, especially on those heavies who just came back on a fresh stock, leads into combo's

Dash at someone and if they spot dodge keep going past them into a pivot grab,

There is TONS of uses for Pivot grabs in Lucario's game.

I use Jab to dash grab a lot on people, because 90% of the time their initial reaction is to shield after the first jab, once they start spot dodging I start pivot grabbing. its Extremely useful. if they start attacking u can either jab roll away or keep jabbing to send them back into their shield reaction. then the cycle starts over =D

 

[RT]

Pivot grabs are good. Just don't be overly flashy with them, because a regular grab is sometimes enough.

Pivot Force Palm grabs are totally unnecessary and completely not worth the risk of doing. But it's funny when you get someone, lol!

 

[Aurasmash14]

Pivot grabs are good. Just don't be overly flashy with them, because a regular grab is sometimes enough.

Pivot Force Palm grabs are totally unnecessary and completely not worth the risk of doing. But it's funny when you get someone, lol!

FP pivot grab isnt funny, its hilarious hahahahahahhhuhuhuheheh.......... ah whatever. to be serious, I do Pivot grab waaay more than dash grab or standing grab/shieldgrab, especially since a standing grab is near useless. There were waaay to many times i could have caught someone if he just had longer range. Lucario's pivot grab on the other hand, seems to draw them in or something lol. sometimes my arms dont even touch them and they somehow end up getting pummeled.

 

[Alus]

Normal grab is never enough wtf you talking about.

 

[phi1ny3]

I've used pivot grab very well in my game, and it's far more useful than some realize. People forget that lucario's throws are very good and that some have some strong stringing potential, while others have KO potential whether in themselves (fthrow, bthrow), or setup for some good moves out of them if the opponent tries to attack you (uthrow mindgames, etc.).

 

[Dark 3nergy]

I've used pivot grab very well in my game, and it's far more useful than some realize. People forget that lucario's throws are very good and that some have some strong stringing potential, while others have KO potential whether in themselves (fthrow, bthrow), or setup for some good moves out of them if the opponent tries to attack you (uthrow mindgames, etc.).

what kind of follow up strings are there for his throws?

theres a few i remember;

low % uthrow>utilt> either more utilt or uair
dthrow>fair
fthrow is a great kill move..so then that leaves bthrow

 

[phi1ny3]

bthrow is a killing throw on either small stages or at very high percents (usually in the 130-150, depending on weight), so if the lucario is initially behind this is actually a good option considering the damage the opponent is usually in. The advantage that bthrow has over fthrow is that bthrow has a tighter trajectory so it's harder for the opponent to DI to live at those percents, plus it ignores the percent lucario is in since it doesn't receive aura buffs.
dthrow and fthrow set up for aerial strings really well too. dthrow will only really work on heavies, or people who don't know how to DI it lol, but uthrow is also pretty good setups for aerials as well (I usually like to do uthrow -> a slightly retreated fair -> FF nair, there's the uthrow -> uair-> retreating nair or dair if they AD the uair, etc.)

 

[Dark 3nergy]

his grabs are underrated, but they're definitely a gold mine for combos and kills. Back when i still remember playing Lucario i do remember saving my fthrows sometimes exclusively for killing. Even back air too since i cant really string it like i can with Fairs.

I can see why some folks wouldnt want to grab since his grab range is pretty poor. But its still no excuse not to use them, they're pretty darn good.


And a response for the OP; i do believe that Lucario is a character in which you can plug in play different play-styles.

By that i mean, depending on the % your at should determine your level of aggression. Whether its just poking, or going all out.

The second thing i think is most critical is geting above 168% and staying there. God i remember the times i DI'ed so hard on Luc to stay about that % range. It was THE SEX OMG

Another thing that kinda bothers me with Lucario, is this; If you die first, on you first stock while your opponent is at like say 110% ish on their first stock...i would image'n it'd be difficult for the lucario to try and get the % lead back again....Is there ways he can gimp and kill at early % even if his kill power is poor?

ninja edit 2.0.1576:

welp phil nye guy, your a man of science right? One of the things scientists do best is ask questions. As long as Lucy mains continue to ask questions and dip into other characters meta games, i think they'll find something. Although not everyone will arrive to the same conclusion.

 

[RT]

Another thing that kinda bothers me with Lucario, is this; If you die first, on you first stock while your opponent is at like say 110% ish on their first stock...i would image'n it'd be difficult for the lucario to try and get the % lead back again....Is there ways he can gimp and kill at early % even if his kill power is poor?

This is one of Lucario's major problems. He has to be at a high percent/stock deficit in order to kill. So against certain heavy characters, like Snake or Dedede, you must get the first kill/gimp or you'll put yourself at an automatic disadvantage.

 

[phi1ny3]

Actually, thanks to that "stock behind" buff, he gets okay kill power in a typical/even some worst case scenarios at like 50%, which is enough to regain again in many instances.
@ D.E.'s last comment: yeah I've been experimenting with all sorts of other stuff that benefits other chars more, I've kinda like HAZEwalking for one and the pseudo-"naritake step" from sheik.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

This is one of Lucario's major problems. He has to be at a high percent/stock deficit in order to kill. So against certain heavy characters, like Snake or Dedede, you must get the first kill/gimp or you'll put yourself at an automatic disadvantage.

I guess thats one thing to look into. From my experience, when i was down a stock i had to get to 25% before my opponent on a ness, would finally die at 205%. As for a heavy...yea..that'd be a nightmare...its like falling off a mountain just to climb it back up...again while taking damage on the last stock.

Doing some research at what % you can finally kill with fsmash/bair/fthrow/dair would be beneficial. plus factoring in the opponent DIing as well.

Actually, thanks to that "stock behind" buff, he gets okay kill power in a typical/even some worst case scenarios at like 50%, which is enough to regain again in many instances.
@ D.E.'s last comment: yeah I've been experimenting with all sorts of other stuff that benefits other chars more, I've kinda like HAZEwalking for one and the pseudo-"naritake step" from sheik.

okay kill power? I mean i've looked at the aura buff chart..i thought it'd be better than just ok..

But the problem still exists if lucy gets one stock ahead right? man lucy for a kid with few AI's, a good few options, your aura power buff can be kinda situational for the better....or worse

oi

 

[phi1ny3]

It's a bit tricky for me to test, because I test this stuff on my younger brother, and he's not very good at DI, so if he DI'd the attack horribly, I'll usually give an estimate based on factors (which usually amounts to 15-30% difference). Also, you have to add in multipliers, including the stock difference.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

It's a bit tricky for me to test, because I test this stuff on my younger brother, and he's not very good at DI, so if he DI'd the attack horribly, I'll usually give an estimate based on factors (which usually amounts to 15-30% difference). Also, you have to add in multipliers, including the stock difference.

better to let someone test it offline with a knowledgable opponent. I too dont have the correct resources for testing it myself.

But a chart of low % kills using, finisher attacks, the whole rouster, with 3 tables for stock head, same stock, stock behind, plus the stage it was tested on

thats..thats alot of math!!

 

[phi1ny3]

tbh, I think the stock buff/debuff was actually a smart deal, especially considering the huge multiplier you're usually in when you're ahead anyways, and the debuff is small enough so that it pales in comparison to your damage multiplier, but when you're behind, it makes it count.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

very true, and hopefully the opponent wont totally capitalize on it when hes a few stocks ahead.

it makes you wonder if it'd be a better idea to just suicide your first stock LOL

 

[RT]

Lucario is beast in crew battles, lol.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Lucario is beast in crew battles, lol.

having never been in crew battles, how does lucario typically do with all that stock? you've got my curiosity now

 

[F1ZZ]

Guys I think it is time to stop discussing in this thread. I don't think it looks good if there is a thread titled, "I still don't think we're heading in the right track here." I say we move this to general discussion or the simple question thread.

 

[Kitamerby]

Guys I think it is time to stop discussing in this thread. I don't think it looks good if there is a thread titled, "I still don't think we're heading in the right track here." I say we move this to general discussion or the simple question thread.

I say you're wrong.


Lucario is indeed beastly in crew battles though, so long as he goes first.

 

[Timbers]

Iwhile others have KO potential whether in themselves (fthrow, bthrow)

this **** does not kill until like 220% on the ledge. lol, unless fthrow had some beast multiplier in which case kill sooner :\ every move in Luc's arsenal (save for fair and jabs) has more kill power than fthrow in regards to aura-base.

having never been in crew battles, how does lucario typically do with all that stock? you've got my curiosity now

if you go ahead and read about how crew battles work, you should figure it out by yourself.

 

[Browny]

o lol so i was messing around with pivot grabs

holy hell lucario has a MASSIVE slide if you time it right. Its bigger than falcos boosted pivot grab... I could only get it like 10% of the time though :/

 

[Aurasmash14]

o lol so i was messing around with pivot grabs

holy hell lucario has a MASSIVE slide if you time it right. Its bigger than falcos boosted pivot grab... I could only get it like 10% of the time though :/

Exactly how is it activated? (and what do you mean by timing it right? is there a certain part of the turnaround pivot?)

 

[Browny]

mmk its pretty simple.

Dash and hold that direction, the press Z and cstick in the opposite direction at the exact same time. there is a very noticeable difference in slide from a normal pivot grab. However, i could only ever get this to work while sliding left (therefore when i land the grab, im facing right). Out of 100's of tries i never got it to work once while sliding right :/

It seems to have the exact same range as marths boosted pivot grab, which is regarded as one of the best (behind falco obviously). Its also slightly better than the standard pivot grab which causes you to slide since the actual grab comes out much quicker, you can activate the grab the instant you dash, as oppose to waiting until you actually start moving to perform the grab.

 

[Aurasmash14]

mmk its pretty simple.

Dash and hold that direction, the press Z and cstick in the opposite direction at the exact same time. there is a very noticeable difference in slide from a normal pivot grab. However, i could only ever get this to work while sliding left (therefore when i land the grab, im facing right). Out of 100's of tries i never got it to work once while sliding right :/

It seems to have the exact same range as marths boosted pivot grab, which is regarded as one of the best (behind falco obviously). Its also slightly better than the standard pivot grab which causes you to slide since the actual grab comes out much quicker, you can activate the grab the instant you dash, as oppose to waiting until you actually start moving to perform the grab.

This seems useful. why dont you put it in the brainstorm thread?