I propose all M2K bracket sets in the future be played as best of 5.

[Anth0ny]

Bo5 just means less variance. Obviously logistics becomes a problem but that's up to the TO to figure out. Bo5 for all matches determining payout seems reasonable.

DING DING DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER

I would like to see Bo5 for all bracket matches, but that of course would require a ****ton of setups to finish in time (depending on attendance of course).

Or, people would have to be willing to give up stuff like crew battles. Bo5 for the entire bracket could have most likely happened at Pound, but it would have been cutting it close.

 

[Lawlb0t]

The same reason why a skilled hacker can get into your grandma's computer within 5 minutes, but doesn't think 5 minutes is enough to hack into NASA.

The better the opponent, the more time is required to adapt.

It's quite simple really, the more matches played, the clearer it becomes who's the better player.

Lol NASA. They would get *****.

Too many matches thats almost double the matches.

 

[Mew2King]

nihonjin that isn't true. Someone can be overall worse than someone else but better at adapting but that doesn't mean the one that's better at adapting is better at Super Smash Bros. Melee. Say player A is overall better than player B by a bit, but B started to beat A after B learned A's style. This doesn't make B better than A overall that's why that's not fair. You could do what DSF does in Brawl and just sandbag to learn people's styles and do better against that person but not as well universally vs <insert random player>. I think the person with a universally better style is better.

Cactuar is a really good player, but it's obvious that I'm better than him overall.

Amsah by your logic, Cactuar is better than me because he learns people better. That's not true.

Being able to adapt just shows how smart you are in the aspect of having good short term memory and being smart enough to (which isn't hard if you remember what they did last time) doing the appropriate counterattack. It doesn't mean you're better at the game overall.

 

[ETWIST51294]

winner semi's, winner finals, loser finals, loser semi's, and the loser quarters (so basically the sets where the loser comes in 7th and 5th place) should all be Bo5.

grand finals bo7

who agrees?

I like this even though it would take forever but it's not like MBR listens to us anyways...

 

[TheManaLord]

MLG did Bo5 for all bracket sets, then Bo7 for finals. That was awesome and good.

All TO's should follow methods of previous success. MLG brought us some of the most memorable and genuine smash melee experiences there are.

Bo5 for all bracket matches is so much more fitting. Especially after you filter through 300 people in pools.

 

[TheLake]

nihonjin that isn't true. Someone can be overall worse than someone else but better at adapting but that doesn't mean the one that's better at adapting is better at Super Smash Bros. Melee. Say player A is overall better than player B by a bit, but B started to beat A after B learned A's style. This doesn't make B better than A overall that's why that's not fair. You could do what DSF does in Brawl and just sandbag to learn people's styles and do better against that person but not as well universally vs <insert random player>. I think the person with a universally better style is better.

Cactuar is a really good player, but it's obvious that I'm better than him overall.

Amsah by your logic, Cactuar is better than me because he learns people better. That's not true.

Being able to adapt just shows how smart you are in the aspect of having good short term memory and being smart enough to (which isn't hard if you remember what they did last time) doing the appropriate counterattack. It doesn't mean you're better at the game overall.

What does it mean than?

Can you go into detail m2k?

Like how does cactuar adapt better than you do O_o dont you usually place higher than him?

 

[TheManaLord]

M2K is just better in every other way. When he gets combos he doesn't mess up, he doesn't mess up edgeguarding. He's saying that Cactuar picks up on others peoples habits better than himself. M2K is just very very good at execution, but he still loses to players around his skill level who have better adaptive skills.

 

[Moooose]

personally i think adaptation should be rewarded more than execution of set patterns as a quality =x.

 

[TheManaLord]

They are both factors, among many other things. One does not outclass or overrule the other.

 

[strawhats]

I guess the overall adaptive abilites have advanced the metagame further than m2k's style of efficient robotic play style (especially his marth in his prime). Hence why he cant beat Mango/ Armada (although I think m2k will beat him next time they play). HUNGRYBOX IS REALLY SMART but if hugs can beat him than so can m2k. (Im not implying anything) just saying that m2k is getting closer to figuring out Hungrybox's playstyle...unlike everyone else m2k takes longer to adapt.

 

[Mew2King]

who says I can't beat armada? I just choked last stock like I always do cuz I'm stupid. I love armada and all, but to be quite honest he wasn't figuring anything out last stock, it was just me getting nervous and playing a lot worse because of it. Mango I can't beat when he's playing his best though, but for some reason I do just as good vs most other people as he does (better vs most people but he still beats everyone by the majority a little bit). He's obviously the best by far because he wins every tourney. I'm probably quitting smash soon anyway, (whenever MK gets banned if he does no more smash travel; it's not profitable or very enjoyable to me anymore [feels like a chore] and I don't have time for it anymore) so I don't think I have a chance of beating them now anymore

 

[HugS™]

You choked at the end but you weren't adapting to his dodging habits earlier either. It shouldn't have been close enough for you to choke to begin with if you improved on your ability to adapt, Jason.

 

[Mew2King]

I don't know how to play adaptive. I know how go make a good style based off getting experience from other people. If I just played my normal game from start to end it would have been fine, but last stock I played nothing like the other ones it was ugly.

I appreciate when people say I can beat him next time, but I just don't feel like playing melee anymore it lost the fun it used to have. Maybe/hopefully I'll change my mind in the future but I only want to play it at big tourneys now and I doubt I'll do good anymore. Esp. after getting DQed from teams after practicing with Jman for it so much, it put me in such a bad mood towards this game I would almost say I unfairly hate it now.

 

[strawhats]

don't quit Jason...not now. You're getting so close. I only wish you could still pay with marth like before

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIUdUvA_Xwc

I swear the **** you did at 1:33 in the vid was matrix like and unreal. (moonwalk to stiky walk>Epic FSMASH)

trust me if you play with your marth with as much precision as you did back then you would probably beat Armada/possibly even **** him a few times.


Remember Who You Are... Only Kings where Tiaras
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIYn3TtRr_w&feature=related

 

[Kite91]

don't quit Jason...not now. You're getting so close. I only wish you could still pay with marth like before

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIUdUvA_Xwc

I swear the **** you did at 1:33 in the vid was matrix like and unreal. (moonwalk to stiky walk>Epic FSMASH)

trust me if you play with your marth with as much precision as you did back then you would probably beat Armada/possibly even **** him a few times.


Remember Who You Are... Only Kings where Tiaras
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIYn3TtRr_w&feature=related

Nicely said, i agree his marth would be his best shot against mango and i think he could deff take armadas peach. But yeah marth would be best for mangos puff, you make the tippers so easy.. all you need to to practice spacing, when ken played mango idk i think it was EVO...he had very good spacing not saying he would beat mango today but still he knew his spacing ether was Mangos puff is ***** to fight,,but i have faith in M2K

 

[DAlegendarysamus]

Lol People Saying Old ****

goddammit.

More Seriously, What I'm Saying Is That Future Tournaments With Such A Huge Attendance Should Just Do Best Of 5 For All Bracket Matches, Especially When 1st Round Sets Could Be Grand Finals For Any Regional Tournament, And You Get Progressively More Ridiculous Matches Into The Bracket That Get Played As Best Of 3 That Really Need To Be Played As Best Of 5.

I Don't Know, Just Makes More Sense To Me. Or Someone Tell Me Why I'm Wrong.

Its Funny How Ppl Talk About Old **** Back In The Old Gauntlet Days During Melee We Use To Make It Best Of 5 For Semis Winners Finals And Grand Finals Should Be Best Of 7
Thats How It Suppose To Be. Or What We Did For Like 2 Gauntlets Is Once We Get Our Top 10 Ppl We Would Then After That Take Those Top Ten Players And Put Them Into A Round Robin And The Person With The Best Record Would Win The Whole Thing. Thats A True Mans Tournament Ever Top Play Fights Ever Top Player. But Alot Of These Tournaments Ppl Weasel Their Way Past People That They Probably Would Lose To 1st Round Cause Of The Way Brackets Are Made. My Motto Is If You Guys Arent Teammates,crewmembers, Really Good Friends/traning Partners Then You Shouldnt Be Seeded At All From Anyone.

 

[strawhats]

Nicely said, i agree his marth would be his best shot against mango and i think he could deff take armadas peach. But yeah marth would be best for mangos puff, you make the tippers so easy.. all you need to to practice spacing, when ken played mango idk i think it was EVO...he had very good spacing not saying he would beat mango today but still he knew his spacing ether was Mangos puff is ***** to fight,,but i have faith in M2K

this is exactly my point I watched some matches of m2k vs. mango marth/puff mathup from SCC and Pound and noticed that m2k did good when he was aware of his spacing and didn't try to go for any cute kills off the stage. He just played the matchup right even if he lost a match he did what he was supposed to do. I think if KDJ was still around along with Ken M2K would have more drive to ****. He didnt like Ken at all and wanted too prove him wrong (hahaha reminds you of a certain mango/hungrybox relationship) and KDJ pushed m2k farther than any other competitor did maybe more than even PC Chris.


I just realized something in m2k's combo vid ALL KINGS WEAR TIARAS...it really is true that all of the Kings of Smash in this game's history main characters that are floaties and WEAR TIARAS. Ken and M2K both main marth(he wears a tiara), mango mains puff (wears a tiara), and foreshadowing of the future king hopefully is that Armada mains Peach (SHE wears a tiara and is a princess...the second coming of marth lol). Notice all of them main floaties too.


@ DAWES..come back to melee man, we miss you. And your right manly tounraments need bo7 GFs.

 

[Wumbologist]

Why would it show more precision? Some might argue that the one who's able to learn his opponent quicker or simply outplaying his opponent before both are extremely used to eachother is more skilled than the one who can first win when he knows his opponent from playing him for a long time (like 2 friends who've played eachother for ages 1 might usually beat the other, but do worse in tournies because he doesn't adapt fast enough, then who's better?). There should be a balance point somewhere. bo5 might be better for that too i don't know. But i don't think you can just say that playing the same person more times makes the result reflect "real skill" better since that is relative.

And the top5 for pound4 seems pretty accurate to what you would consider the 5 best players from that tourney.

Then why is bo3 too short if someone *can* adapt that fast? Or do you consider adaption to adaption so you think people should adapt multiple times a match?

I do think that playing someone more reflects real skill. And placings in a tourney is a bad example, there are multiple things that can happen, like one person got CP'd and the other didn't, bad match-ups, one played a really high-level player while the other got a scrub. I know what you're trying to get at but a tournament setting is hardly the kind of place to decide how two friends compare to each other (unless there is a BIG difference in placing, then I understand completely). Besides, just because one person is better than another doesn't mean that they're better against others. The point of the longer sets is to get a better idea of how the skill between two players compare to each other, not how two players match up against a slew of others. Take the M2K ADHD Ally triangle for example. M2K is worse than ADHD, who is worse than Ally, who is worse than M2K. Who do you pick for a better player?

Hmm. I'm gonna go out on a limb and use Halo 3 for MLG as an example. In their Championship series, the best of 11 wins.
Would you say that it would show more precision over best of three? Of course you would. It's just logical. The more something is tested, the more precise the results are.

The person who adapts to win will win for a reason. If the enemy can not overcome that, then they are not better against that player.

 

[Mister Cadaver]

I agree with all the people that say it would take too long.

 

[Zephynazo]

I like how Mew2king still keeps saying he played scrubbish vs Armada at last stock etc etc.

Armada was quite at his best as well u know? =/

IMHO i thought Armada was going to win this. And i do think he will win the next big upcoming tournaments

Also, adaptive skill is prolly as important as over skill is. But its def more important and better when playing in tournies.

 

[Zeu$]

who says I can't beat armada? I just choked last stock like I always do cuz I'm stupid. I love armada and all, but to be quite honest he wasn't figuring anything out last stock, it was just me getting nervous and playing a lot worse because of it. Mango I can't beat when he's playing his best though, but for some reason I do just as good vs most other people as he does (better vs most people but he still beats everyone by the majority a little bit). He's obviously the best by far because he wins every tourney. I'm probably quitting smash soon anyway, (whenever MK gets banned if he does no more smash travel; it's not profitable or very enjoyable to me anymore [feels like a chore] and I don't have time for it anymore) so I don't think I have a chance of beating them now anymore

have you ever realized the absurdity of trying to provide a living through smash. Play for fun, this isn't a job.

 

[gm jack]

But when major tournament cost a lot to travel to, you need to either have a lot of money spare or expect to make it back. For example, Armada would not have gone to Genesis if he really didn't think he wasn't going to place well. It would cost too much just to play a load of americans.

 

[slikvik]

I disagree with this too.

Being able to adapt fast is what's most important in the game, in my opinion this game is all about learning your opponents habits and capitalizing on them.

My point is, that at higher level play, a best of 3 is simply too short. And because of that it gives people who aren't as good at the game a chance to beat people known to be better than they are.

So I'm all for best of 5's.

agreed. I always thought semis should be best of 5 because of this.

have you ever realized the absurdity of trying to provide a living through smash. Play for fun, this isn't a job.

I don't see what absurd about it. Smash is one of the largest gaming competitive scenes. There's plenty of money to be made by top players. It can definitely be considered a job. Jason is currently putting himself through college with his smash earnings, and making more income than some people with "regular" jobs

 

[Zodiac]

Well, I have to agree that best of five for LATER in the bracket is a good idea, like final 8 or 16, err, nevermind not final 16 but top 8, just because I think it does show more skill when both players have each other figured out.

 

[Jem.]

The problem is a lot of Brawl national tournaments are already not ending on time -- getting kicked out of the venue, and deciding whether top 2-3 just split all the money, or play it out at a hotel room or something. Adaption is a key to competitive gaming, and until its best of 5 you better be ready to adapt. It's part of the game. Anyone can win, so why not win?