I need professional in depth answers on how to defeat snake

[Barge]

Snake is one of my hardest match ups for me, I really need good answers and explantions on how to get pass his defense, how to approach, how to punish and how to edge guard him.
He's really aggravating to me, I play so many snakes everyday im surprised I can't read or understand him.
It'd be better if I got an indepth explanation from people who know what they're talking about.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Give me some specific problems you're having.

 

[lain]

You can cg past the nades, stay unpredictable at midrange so you can run in and grab them at an opportune time, juggle with uair since snake sucks at coming back down to the stage, when snake lands he's either going to pull a nade, bair, or airdodge. Most do option 2 or 3, so you can just stand their with your shield and grab when they land. Don't fall for them spamming tilts and jabs over and over -_-

that's the general outline to play, specific problems?

 

[B0mbe1c]

IBs > Nades.
That's about it.

 

[Nikwadtkhil]

throw uncooked nades back and Grab him for the lulz, if he's better ummmmmmmmmmmmm........

try and get behind him on the ground after a F-tilt and get him in the air and stay under him with those darling U-airs, but watch the c4 O.o

SH Blizzard if he's holding onto a grendade (to stop grabs from you) to mess him up



IMO

(reiterating ftw)

 

[smaci92]

what's your guy's favorite chaingrab on snake? I'm too lazy to test it right now...

 

[Diddyknight]

IB helps...try useing Sh IB to Sh blizz to Desync bliz + fair :3

 

[Barge]

Honestly I have trouble figuring out how to space with a very aggresive snake + what to do after a shielded ftilt

 

[momochuu]

You should learn the hobble. Don't Blizzard his grenades and look out for grenade stripping.

 

[SuSa]

Pick up someone else for Snake..

As a Snake player, I love this matchup. You getting a grab is almost impossible due to our stage control and broken hitboxes. (utilt and ftilt come to mind)

A smart Snake will cook their grenades.
Lain said a good Snake will bair/airdodge.... no... just no... not when we're getting juggled.

From higher up, we would B-Reverse grenades /c4, and use those as a safeguard and possibly blow ourselves up with a grenade to save ourselves. We'll have a grenade nearby very often, so if you do grab you better CG fast to get away from it.

CG us into our own mines, if we place them. I wouldn't worry about using IB to blow it up, just avoid it and CG us into it when you can.

This is a really tough matchup because of the IC's pretty short range on basically all of their moves but Blizzard and Ice Blocks.

I believe Snake can use his 'nades to escape a squall hammer.... haven't faced an IC that's actually used that against me xD so I think we can, so they don't use it...

Eh... <.< I still say pick up a secondary for this matchup (and possibly a few others)

 

[kevinw0w]

I never use Ic's against snake...

It's just too impossible for me.

 

[ignore the fire]

I second D3 so I usually resort to that if I'm having trouble.
The problem with the snake matchup is that there are multiple playstyles for snake, which makes it hard to help you out.
I use the dthrow>dthrow CG (fthrows are hard). This is difficult to do, though, because of snake's stage control. I would suggest a counter pick, because this match seems pretty one-sided.

(Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I've learned from experience.)

 

[Supernova757]

Well, we sort of need to know who you use before we can give you advice on how to beat him. It's different with each character.

 

[lain]

Yeah, actually, I'd EASILY go DDD in this matchup. I don't know how I'd lose.

 

[lain]

Lain said a good Snake will bair/airdodge.... no... just no... not when we're getting juggled.

Most snakes do. Obviously good snakes THINK and do that.

But yeah Havokk makes really good points, but I think what I said still holds value lol.

DDD is wayyyyy better in this matchup. I've never freely choose IC's first game unless they ***** my DDD LOL.

 

[Khaoz]

Yeah, I hate this match-up so much...

I've found the best way to approach snake in this match-up is to keep him in the air as much as possible, as difficult as that is. I personally learned the hard way not to pick his grenades up, because a good snake will strip them before you get to throw them back. Yeah desynced, IBs will interrupt his mine placing, but for the most part thats not a camp battle the Iceys can win.

At mid range most snakes will want to snake dash you to death. DO NOT make the mistake of trying to grab him at the end of this. As tempting and easy as it is, you'll simply get punished by a falling mortar every time (unless you can manage to chaingrab him out of the way in time, something I have never been successful at )

Close range is all about being unpredictable. Most snakes (well, I guess all characters) when fighting the ICs pretty much watch out for one main thing when we approach, the grab. This of course means they'll be shield dropping grenades left and right or cooking them whenever they feel in danger of a grab.Just be careful, bc if you miss a grab or fail with a punishable move, you're pretty much guaranteed to be eating a Ftilt with a side of about 20%, spacing you once again for the camp game...

If you do manage to get the opportunity to CG him, try to get him near the edge and Dthrow>Fair spike him and go for the snake gimp...

As far as counter pick stages go I am completely clueless...I sometimes try to go somewhere with a high ceiling to avoid death by Utilt or any of the explosives, like Jungle Japes.


I guess that was more of what not to do than what to do, but thats all I have...

 

[ignore the fire]

I agree with much of what Khaoz said.

Except counter-picking Jungle Japes. Becuase of snake's superior stage control game, a good snake would be able to keep you away from the middle section, reducing you to try to CG on one of the side platforms. Stationary CGs are somewhat difficult against snake, and you wouldn't be able to carry him away from explosives on the sides becuase, well, there's no where to go. Definitely watch out for Smashville, too, as the moving platform gives snake mobile explosives. I'm not sure how you would do on FD. FD is one of the ICs best stages, but it's also one of snake's best stages.

Again, I would suggest a counter pick if you play a snake in a tourney...

 

[8AngeL8]

Coming from the other side of this matchup, I wouldn't recommend playing IC's against Snake. It's too easy for him to prevent grabs and separate Nana. Unless you're Melee1, go with your secondary

 

[meepxzero]

camp camp camp camp.... ice blocks and blizzard are enough to stop his nades. If he tilts u hes asking to get grabbed. Just powershield the tilts and free grab.

 

[Z1GMA]

I cant understand why this matchup is in Snakes favour..
I shall get a vid up to show what I mean.

 

[FrozenHobo]

camp camp camp camp.... ice blocks and blizzard are enough to stop his nades. If he tilts u hes asking to get grabbed. Just powershield the tilts and free grab.

^^

this. he does have goddly tilts, but they're pretty much useless if you stay away from him. plus blizzard has even goddlier (is that a word) priority.

 

[SuSa]

Outcamping a Snake? With IC's?

Madness.....

Basically what 8angel8 said.

@ZIGMA
Unless you 3 stocked a good Snake, you're vids useless.....

 

[FrozenHobo]

i dunno... i'm tired and don't feel like thinking.... i know its a bad matchup, but what i can remember i only got ***** when the snake kept snake dashing across the stage repeatedly..... until i stopped him with an ice block and proceeded to **** him....

 

[lain]

Everything Meep and Frozen Popo said.

 

[B0mbe1c]

CP D3 or Falco.
Lasers > Nades, and Waddles/Gordo > Nades.
Also, they can CG snake to a possible death. :3

 

[SuSa]

CP D3 or Falco.
Lasers > Nades, and Waddles/Gordo > Nades.
Also, they can CG snake to a possible death. :3

Falco's CG > spike can be recovered from (or stage-teched)

But ya... **** Falco -.- *CP's Metaknight!*

 

[B0mbe1c]

Falco's CG > spike can be recovered from (or stage-teched)

But ya... **** Falco -.- *CP's Metaknight!*

Haha, dun be jealous!

 

[Z1GMA]

@ZIGMA
Unless you 3 stocked a good Snake, you're vids useless.....

Oh bummer :/ ... I 2-stock him.. And he is a very good Snake for that matter.

 

[l!nk_aut]

i don´t have much problems. the snakes i fight against like to spam grenades.
i use to approach with squall a lot and try to roll behind him when he´s jabing or tilting.
blizzard against the snakedash works REALLY well btw.

but thats just my point off view

 

[Diddyknight]

death in 5-7 grabs is amazing xD (assuming if you get a grab at 0%).
P D-throw
N F-air
P IB
N Charging Smash(doent mattar , funnier if its the lowest one)
Grab again during the smash

auto 30-40 %. Can be really consistent. IMO, this ***** snake.


i dont like this matchup. He controls too much of the ground. Try using IB to cover most of his mines and nades. Desync IB rush to Desync Sh Blizzard and try to keep him in the air....


>.<

Note: most snakes will keep their distance. Approaches are ***

 

[Magnawolf]

I ice block when he pulls out grenades and I also spam the **** out of him with blizzard. Make the most out of grabs and you should be fine.

 

[momochuu]

Holy crap, learn the footstool combo. I just bothered to actually start using it today and it works so well on him. Just look out if he drops a grenade.

 

[Baro]

l2grab plz

 

[Maniclysane]

l2grab plz

Lol no Snake is ever letting you in grab range. If you get more than three grabs on him he's a bad Snake player. Snake has lots options to keep you away. Cooking granades is he most obvious.

 

[Khaos]

IB helps...try useing Sh IB to Sh blizz to Desync bliz + fair :3

that's gotta be the geekiest comment i've seen man. lol

the hell does that mean man? geez

 

[momochuu]

that's gotta be the geekiest comment i've seen man. lol

the hell does that mean man? geez

Short Hop Ice Block to Short hop Bizzard to desynch blizzard to FAir. I dunno if that works though, lollz.

 

[Bnzaaa]

that's gotta be the geekiest comment i've seen man. lol

If that's the geekiest comment you've seen, then I guess that makes us all geeks .

Smash terminology. Most Ice Climber mains know what these mean.

Since I'm here, I'd like to say that I agree with everything Meep and Frozen said .

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Erg, such an annoyign matchup. I played against a snake at a tourney recently and GAAAAAH! the first match, I was waaaay too aggressive in and got horribly *****. (2 stocked). The second match I calmed down and played alot more patiently and campy. He still beat me but the match ended with my Solo Nana against his Snake. Both of us at high percents.

First match, I kept trying to grab him because I had just gone against his friend who was a Falco player and I managed to infinite him for most of the match. **** ensued.

The second match, I completely stopped trying to grab him and I Block/Blizzard camped HARD. I think IC excels in mid-range camping if this match-up. I Baired alot into blizzards and dash-attacked/grabbed out of desynch Blizzards when I was close. Keep Blzzard's hitbox around you at all times. More than anything, you want to keep snake in the air because of Uair's stupid priority.

Squall Hammer will work once, MAYBE twice, in this match because Snake's tilts will pretty much destroy you if the Snake catches on. So if you catch them in a squall, make the most of it. I usually desynch out of the squall and make the 2ndary Climber Usmash so that I can follow-up however(usually desynched Uairs).

Mid range is where you wanna be at all times. Close enough for Blizzard to make them cautious but far away enough so that using an Ice Block won't get you punished. If you're not using Blizzard, I'd suggest spamming blocks just to discourage DACUS.

IC dies from Utilt around 85%, I believe.

The snake I went against never directly punished Popo. He always C4 stuck him and then sometimes just let him go back to me. This resulted in the C4 constantly switching between the two of us . Pretty scary/annoying.


I dunno what else to say though. I'm not very good but I think IC's best chance of winning this match is pretty much being a gay, campy douche. Take what I say with a grain of salt. I don't place NEARLY well enough for you to take what I say as truth.

 

[Geekhead]

Holy crap, learn the footstool combo. I just bothered to actually start using it today and it works so well on him. Just look out if he drops a grenade.

what's the footstool combo? i may have missed it somewhere in the thread, but my friend (spudz) uses snake and yoshi. I would really like to know something good against him.

 

[B0mbe1c]

Dthrow -> Nana footstool -> IB -> grab and repeat.
Or check Hylians thread for the other *easier* version...