I feel Soooooooo Predictable...

[XERAMPELINAE]

Ok, who feels the same? *Raises hand* I've been playing horribly as of late, and I can feel intense monotony of play-style from the beginning of the match to the end. My opponents know my Peach-- she is predictable as hell. They know a way around Dairs, spaced auto-cancelled fairs + jab/whatever, and to make matters worse, I'm losing faith on my turnip game.
Anyway, I know this is vague since I could be more specific about what I am doing and find mistakes, but the main point here is that I feel that I need to adopt a different style and feel fresh at every match. Is anyone a victim or has been subject to this situation? If so, what are some of the things you can do amplify your game?

 

[Sky`]

Have you tried Shffl Dairs? right when you jump, slam Down on the C stick. These jumping Dairs are great approaches, considering if they shield, you can DI backward to stay out of grab range, and if it hits, you can float.

Also, Dtilt ***** shields. Try auto canceling an Fair, to a Dtilt. Use the Dtilt strategically!
If the Dtilt hits, and you jump at the right time, you could Slide back, and do a half circle Fsmash. You see what I'm saying?

Dtilt + attack afterward = Sliding Peach. =D

And Forward B is an amazing attack.
Just Try glide tossing, to Forward B. Just do it. Just do it. XD

I hope this helps a little.

 

[SleeplessInKyoto]

I agree with the above ^^^^ Forward + B is really great for punishing rolling, and when you glide toss, they will either shield, roll backwards or forwards. If they shield, grab em and slap em. If they roll backwards, hit them with the peach bomber. If they roll forwards (towards you) then hit them with a D-Smash.

One of the things i did was i floated too much. It got predictable and soon my opponents starting spamming their U-Smashes or using their aerials. I fixed this by approaching from ground, or floating but rarely actually attacking, in order to play mindgames with them and make them paranoid.

There's a lot of potential with Peach. You just need to be creative. Luckily for us, Peach is a very versatile character that can switch things up when needed. But you just need to be creative in your combos.

 

[Niko_K]

Have you tried Shffl Dairs? right when you jump, slam Down on the C stick. These jumping Dairs are great approaches, considering if they shield, you can DI backward to stay out of grab range, and if it hits, you can float.

Also, Dtilt ***** shields. Try auto canceling an Fair, to a Dtilt. Use the Dtilt strategically!
If the Dtilt hits, and you jump at the right time, you could Slide back, and do a half circle Fsmash. You see what I'm saying?

Dtilt + attack afterward = Sliding Peach. =D

And Forward B is an amazing attack.
Just Try glide tossing, to Forward B. Just do it. Just do it. XD

I hope this helps a little.

Autocancel fair to dtilt is a really unsafe idea. You will most definitely be at the frame disadvantage, and it will most likely be countered by numerous OoS attacks. Autocancel fair to Ftilt is WAY safer, faster, and has longer range.

Glide toss to forward B is really stupid as well. Never assume your opponent is going to roll after a turnip hits their shield, if anything their going to attack OoS or shield grab. I don't want to wait 22 frames to do an unnecessary bomber when I can dash grab, nair or stutter step F-Smash in a lesser amount of time, while being more effective.

Also, try not to be too dependant on turnips. They really aren't that good. I would only use them for zoning reasons. Edrees and I can get into detail about this at a later time, possibly in the form of a thread.

It's all about spacing yourself SAFELY and QUICKLY. At low percents you want to dominate the middle stage while at higher percentages you want to force them off the edge for some edgeguarding or easy edgehopped bair/nair kills. D-Tilt and Bomber should be used for mixups more than anything else.

Also, approach with your shield once in a while. What I mean by this is anticipate your opponents attack, and shield it. The second you shield the hit input jump nair for a punish. Powershield everything if you can for guarenteed OoS attacks. With this being said, the best way to get off Footstool Bair, Nair, and fair is to get your shield hit and do the footstool OoS. Landing a Footstooled Fair before the footstool lag ends is probably one of the most "technical" things peach can do. It's also a guarenteed kill if you save your fair.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Great advice by Niko.

Also, switching it up is a simple way to stop being predictable. For example, say you glide toss to jab one time. The next time, glide toss to grab. Then the next time glide toss to down air. Don't fall into too much of a pattern if you notice them catching on. Some players cannot really follow patterns so feel free to abuse them for this but if you find them punishing you for patterns, mix it up to punish them back.

 

[Praxis]

I prefer to autocancel Fair to jab over anything else. You can then jab-grab and Mash A till they slide out, then attempt an ftilt.

Even if they don't get hit by the ftilt, you still refresh half your stale moves in the process.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I'll talk about one thing that I have not seen being covered in this thread. I am pretty sure you have fear when you play. You may usually be afraid to do things that might work. And you always want to play it safe. Which is cool and all but you can't be in fear of a match 24/7.

I use to be a coward when it came to edgeguarding. I would be too afraid I kill myself. So I would not be too reckless with it. But my enemy would usually make it back to the stage. And I got tired of it. So I decided to take some risk on it. be a lil more creative or agressive when it came to edgeguarding. And thanks to that, My enemy has a harder time coming back or I K.O them. You need to take risk but at the same time think about what you are doing. pros take risk all the time in tournaments. money is on the line, and when they feel they are in danger, they have to do w/e it takes to win. Cause what they are doing is not working so they have to do something risky or w/e that can turn the tables around.

Also when you do these things, it may not work. don't sweat it, can't be perfect all the time, but in time you will get better at it and see a change. Till the point where it will work more than fail. Just don't have fear when you play. Fear decreases your chances of winning a match by 50%

I am also sure you don't know what to do in matches. You don't have a plan. You need to learn what to look for in matches and how to go on about them. look at your enemy and figure out what he is doing. How to get close, when to get away. etc. You need to learn all the factors of a fighting game. Smash is not your regular fighting game. But it has factors that apply to one that a player needs to win. its not about going in and attacking. You have to kow when to attack and how.

Don't attack and hope it will hit. Make sure it will hit. game is not about luck. you need skills for this. Most people don't understand what it takes in fighting games. You needs a plan and strat from start to finish. i suggest you learn about what it takes to win in fighting games. it may help you, or just this game in general.

 

[Sky`]

Autocancel fair to dtilt is a really unsafe idea. You will most definitely be at the frame disadvantage, and it will most likely be countered by numerous OoS attacks. Autocancel fair to Ftilt is WAY safer, faster, and has longer range.

Glide toss to forward B is really stupid as well. Never assume your opponent is going to roll after a turnip hits their shield, if anything their going to attack OoS or shield grab. I don't want to wait 22 frames to do an unnecessary bomber when I can dash grab, nair or stutter step F-Smash in a lesser amount of time, while being more effective.

Also, try not to be too dependant on turnips. They really aren't that good. I would only use them for zoning reasons. Edrees and I can get into detail about this at a later time, possibly in the form of a thread.

It's all about spacing yourself SAFELY and QUICKLY. At low percents you want to dominate the middle stage while at higher percentages you want to force them off the edge for some edgeguarding or easy edgehopped bair/nair kills. D-Tilt and Bomber should be used for mixups more than anything else.

Also, approach with your shield once in a while. What I mean by this is anticipate your opponents attack, and shield it. The second you shield the hit input jump nair for a punish. Powershield everything if you can for guarenteed OoS attacks. With this being said, the best way to get off Footstool Bair, Nair, and fair is to get your shield hit and do the footstool OoS. Landing a Footstooled Fair before the footstool lag ends is probably one of the most "technical" things peach can do. It's also a guarenteed kill if you save your fair.

1. Fair knocks your enemy back, if they shield it. They are unable to respond if you cancel it into a Down tilt. I've done it before. If you knock them back far enough with Fair, your Dtilt should land right under their shield, or at least damage it. Sure, Ftilt in most cases is better, but I'm thinking of different options, not the norm. Saying this is a completely idiotic way to play is just telling me that you've never really tried it yourself. =/

2. Agreed. Although when glide tossing, usually I double slap, or just grab them. However when prediction catches on, I notice that after a few successful glide tosses, pressure kicks in and they roll away, assuming I'm going to land something. It's then, when I would Foward B. It's a great move, works wonders. Especially if you Jam back and then forward B, you do a little dashdance before you do it. Hehe.

3. I still think that Turnip Canceling is moar techy. But I've actually never seen a successful footstool- Fair. That's interesting.


I personally think the key to winning anything, is Toad. <3 I don't use him, but I really should.

It brings R.O.B's and GaW's to their knees, and mentally mind F*cks them up. So I'd just say, incorporate moar toad.

 

[Niko_K]

1. Fair knocks your enemy back, if they shield it. They are unable to respond if you cancel it into a Down tilt. I've done it before. If you knock them back far enough with Fair, your Dtilt should land right under their shield, or at least damage it. Sure, Ftilt in most cases is better, but I'm thinking of different options, not the norm. Saying this is a completely idiotic way to play is just telling me that you've never really tried it yourself. =/

2. Agreed. Although when glide tossing, usually I double slap, or just grab them. However when prediction catches on, I notice that after a few successful glide tosses, pressure kicks in and they roll away, assuming I'm going to land something. It's then, when I would Foward B. It's a great move, works wonders. Especially if you Jam back and then forward B, you do a little dashdance before you do it. Hehe.

3. I still think that Turnip Canceling is moar techy. But I've actually never seen a successful footstool- Fair. That's interesting.


I personally think the key to winning anything, is Toad. <3 I don't use him, but I really should.

It brings R.O.B's and GaW's to their knees, and mentally mind F*cks them up. So I'd just say, incorporate moar toad.

1. You just proved my point, it knocks the enemy back and if you didn't know, F-Tilts hitbox does a huge scoop, so big that if your standing on a platform of BF, the enemy directly below you will get it. F-Tilt has more range than d-tilt, is faster, and still hits the same spot that D-Tilt does. This is why I said D-Tilt is a good mix up. Mix ups are meant to keep you unpredictable. I never said it was idiotic, you're just throwing words in my mouth.

2. Again, this is why I said it was a good mix up. Though, what if they roll behind you? You're caught in the most obnoxious landing lag ever which, against many characters will lead to your death. Also, a competent opponent should be able to deal with pressure without retreating. I'm positive a number of characters can buffer grab the instant a turnip hits their shield before you can grab them.

3. Turnip cancelling only consists of three actions.

Dashing towards the edge(Forward A)
Pulling a turnip (Down B)
Dashing again (Forward A)

Footstool Fair is a lot more complicated.

You have to

Footstool (X)
Float (Down + X)
Retreat (Continue holding X + Back)
Fair (Forward A/C Stick Forward)

All before the footstool lag comes to and end. Just throwing this out there for those who don't know how to do either.

It kind of seems like you think I'm picking apart your post because of the silly PR list. I'm just justifying why I think your advice is a little bit unsafe and posted a couple of alternatives to help out. After all, the more advice the better.

 

[BentoBox]

Praxis, eventually your opponents will catch on and realise jab to grab isn't an actual combo. They can spotdodge right before you attempt a grab. Just saying. Though there is only one person in my crew who knows of this because I play him more regularly~ So I still abuse it just as much, but yeah~

@niko: do you need to powershield the attack for you to have enough time to footstool them? And I'm guessing you mostly use it against characters with short range or with severe lag on their aerial attacks (if they atk from the air) ? I don't quite see myself footstooling a marth for example, as they are never that close.

 

[Sky`]

1. You just proved my point, it knocks the enemy back and if you didn't know, F-Tilts hitbox does a huge scoop, so big that if your standing on a platform of BF, the enemy directly below you will get it. F-Tilt has more range than d-tilt, is faster, and still hits the same spot that D-Tilt does. This is why I said D-Tilt is a good mix up. Mix ups are meant to keep you unpredictable. I never said it was idiotic, you're just throwing words in my mouth.

2. Again, this is why I said it was a good mix up. Though, what if they roll behind you? You're caught in the most obnoxious landing lag ever which, against many characters will lead to your death. Also, a competent opponent should be able to deal with pressure without retreating. I'm positive a number of characters can buffer grab the instant a turnip hits their shield before you can grab them.

3. Turnip cancelling only consists of three actions.

Dashing towards the edge(Forward A)
Pulling a turnip (Down B)
Dashing again (Forward A)

Footstool Fair is a lot more complicated.

You have to

Footstool (X)
Float (Down + X)
Retreat (Continue holding X + Back)
Fair (Forward A/C Stick Forward)

All before the footstool lag comes to and end. Just throwing this out there for those who don't know how to do either.

It kind of seems like you think I'm picking apart your post because of the silly PR list. I'm just justifying why I think your advice is a little bit unsafe and posted a couple of alternatives to help out. After all, the more advice the better.

1. Well, you're a big dumb stupid pants. =D (agreed)

2.I love the adjective, Obnoxiously long. =D

3. Oh, I thought there was some other complex thingy. Like, foot stool Dair. I dunno, when I footstool, it auto floats if I just Slam X again. So, X, X, Back, continue holding X, then Fair.

And about those PR things. If It came down to it, I think I'm the dumbest peach player alive. My Tournament records say otherwise in terms of In-game performance, but with all this theoretical ****, I'm an idiot. so, I expect my posts to be picked apart, at least. And Since I see you as like, one of the best Peaches in the world, It's good for me, that you are picking apart my posts. Now I can only get better, right?

 

[Niko_K]

You don't need to powershield the attack. Just wait for the hitbox to end and footstool out of the shield. Footstool a marth is rather easy imo. Catch em double fairing into your shield = footstool. End of Forward B = footstool.

Its just something you need to work on in game. It becomes a reflex.

Sky you got it right . It's all constructive criticism. Stuff you're going to learn off of!

 

[Sky`]

I already did, watching your videos and stuff.

Haha. When are you going to come to a California tournament?

 

[Niko_K]

Actually fairly soon.

Especially if you can get someone to bid on one of my auctions.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=220302410087
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=220303195490
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=220303199042
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=220303203022

 

[XERAMPELINAE]

^Quite an array of interesting items, Niko. Since you always help out and contribute to my threads, I'll contemplate about your auctions.

In any case, I'd like to make full use of you guys's tips to revive my Peach. But I'd like to point this out from experience and then pose a question:

We (may) often underestimate our opponent's knowledge of Peach, and we (may) therefore abuse often-times bad habits right off the bat, especially with chars of equal or inferior matchup. But, I'm starting to think that if your opponent uses an even matcup char (e.g. Lucario, Wario), and he knows everything about Peach, then I'm in serious trouble. Is it the case that we often depend on the Peach ignorance of our opponent?

 

[Dark.Pch]

It depends on player skill. if you think that your enemy is not all that good, then you wont be worrying so much, and your bad habits they wont abuse as much as a more skillful player would.

 

[PrepareYourself]

It depends on player skill. if you think that your enemy is not all that good, then you wont be worrying so much, and your bad habits they wont abuse as much as a more skillful player would.

What he said. Dark.Pch abused every single one of my bad habits

But when you are fighting a noob, you can be as predictable as you want and what you see as predictable they see as unavoidable.

200th POST!

 

[XERAMPELINAE]

It depends on player skill. if you think that your enemy is not all that good, then you wont be worrying so much, and your bad habits they wont abuse as much as a more skillful player would.

I agree. But, you see, I think that your opponent's knowledge on Peach does play a crucial role. For example, I placed quite well on a recent tournament, and I faced a Snake (yeah, now we're dealing with uneven matchups) on one of my first rounds. The guy was known for being very good with Snake, etc. So I know the matchup, I win, and he claims that he didn't know how bizarre Peach could be. But then I head to my friend's house, and he mains Snake and seconds Peach. So, after playing 10 matches, I only win 1 or 2. What is wrong here? He knows everything about Peach and can immediately detect any pattern. He counters my air game by, yes, his own air game. So, I seem to analyze his pattern and try to counter it, but then I realized that he already knew that I had switched to plan B and then to plan C and back to A. And this can apply to pretty much any character from the cast, except that inferior matchups will have a harder time.
To sum everything up, I feel that my opponents can detect my patterns, but I can't adapt to theirs. And I feel that Peach can be subject to a very hard time with opponents that know everything about her.

 

[Dark.Pch]

T things happened here. you did not realize or expect him to know the match up better. You also did not know how to deal with how he played.

From what I have gathered based on what you are telling me, you dont have a clue on how to approach a match up. or abuse a persons habits. you are usually clueless or in fear.

Answer these questions for me.

- do you know your matchups?

- do you know how to zone in?

- do you know how to bait attacks

- do you know how to punish a persons mistakes?

 

[XERAMPELINAE]

^I find it hard to arrive at that conclusion since the info I've provided so far has been vague and ambiguous, and I don't plan to go into much detail. ;but I do admit that there is always some fear and a lot of "what if?"s. E.g.: "What if I try something seemingly stupid and end up getting KO'ed pathetically?" "What if I fail at edge-hogging?" etc.
To answer your questions: Yes to all of the above. Except that I'd like a different term or a clear definition for "Zoning in."

The real argument here is whether or not you're opponent's ignorance of Peach plays a big role or not. And this is where predictability comes in and seems to be hard to escape. Of course, I accept that there are mistakes obviously being committed from my part, but I'm so far skeptical about successfully escaping monotonous play style after following all of the advice written on this thread.

 

[Dark.Pch]

If your enemy does not know the match up, it just boosts your chances of beating them it does not always mean you will win. One can not know the match up and still win. and that is because the player is better than the other one.