I argu Links recovery!

[Slowmoveguy]

I'm sorry, but having the bomb makes a big difference in Links recovery, and if this isn't taken into consideration, then so be it. But, because of Links bomb I've been spared Link's bad recovery. By using the Z-Air (Drop bomb into A attack) I've been able to have a bomb in hand all the time, and when I get thrown off the stage that bomb becomes so handy to get back on stage.

Do the math:

Link and 'Bad Recovery (whatever your reason for it being bad)= Link has a bad recovery.

But...

Link+Bomb+Bad Recovery+DL+Up B= Many possibilities.

Too make it simple. A good player would keep in mind the many possibilities, likewise for the many possibilities for Link's recovery.

Link's recovery deserves more thought before anyone tells me it sucks T.T

 

[Huggles828]

It is widely regarded that Link's recovery is the worst in the game. Now, personally, I think it's more versatile and useful than Ganondorf's overall after DI and the grappling hook (I second OldManondorf), because Link has more options, but the Old Man does in fact have a longer recovery.

The fact is, the bomb is taken into account when people say Link's recovery is awful. It takes 7 seconds for the bomb to explode. If you are hit hard offstage, double jump and then pull out a bomb, you will likely not have 7 seconds to live before falling to your death, or you would be able to get back onstage anyway. Bombs are used to help recover, but it is only useful in a few situations. If Meta Knight knocks you off stage, he's not going to just sit there taunting. He's going to chase your *** down and begin a torrent of attacks to keep you off the edge, and in that situation you will probably need your split second of time to do something other than pulling out and holding on to a bomb, since having a bomb in your hands limits your choices in defending against opponents hunting you down off the edge. Also, unlike Snake, you can't attack your own bombs to make them blow up in your face.

You can hold onto a bomb before you get launched off stage, but even with bombsmashing and Zair and using aerials, it limits what you can do, especially since you're just holding on to Link's best projectile instead of using it in the fight, and it's not like you'd be able to time when the bomb would save you either.

So yes, bombs can help Link's recovery, and good players do keep these possibilities in mind, but overall, it's only useful in certain situations, and even considering this, Link's recovery is undoubtedly very near, if not THE worst in the game. Sad, but true

 

[Slowmoveguy]

You reasoned well, so its reasonable to disagree that Link has the worst recovery in the game? :D

 

[Kitamerby]

You can disagree all you want, but you're still getting gimped.

 

[Scabe]

It's definitely a good idea at high percents to start having a bomb all the time and to play more safe and trying to live as long as possible while giving chip damage.

Link does get gimped when he gets puts in a bad position offstage. Opponent can harass him and push him out further which really wrecks Link. Gale boomerang helps alot to prevent people from coming offstage.

I don't get gimped too much, alot of players say that it's hard to gimp my Link. I find that I get gimped the most when I try to go for a gimp and fail.

But I do get gimped and it's usually by MK with his hax offstage game. DK get's me with his hax back air and how he can cargo down throw you offstage.

 

[Huggles828]

Assuming your opponent does absolutely nothing, Link's recovery is usually good enough to make it back, unless you missed DI'ing a semispike or something. The problem is Link has options but no margin for error when he's off the edge, so you have to play smart. One "advantage" is Link is going to know his options, and the opponent might not (Link ain't exactly a common tournament opponent), but this will eventually run out; then you'll have to outthink your opponent. That said, nothing is more satisfying than dumbfounding my friend who plays ROB when he can't gimp my Link

I have some trouble recovering against my brother's Fox though with the reflector ("Boomerang, why have you betrayed me?!"). Also, I think if I were to go to a tournament (I think I found a first one to go to BTW, I'm gonna play Link all the way!) I'd have to be careful since I tend to be lazy and abuse the airdodge -> hookshot.

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

Link's up b should just give him the Iron Boots and make him sink to the bottom to enable you to get back to fighting faster.

 

[Scabe]

^That's crazy, he falls down pretty fast so he doesn't even need them . Also I think he has one of the fastest fast falls in the game.

There's been a couple times where I get hit off stage and I pull out a bomb and I'd accidentally fast fall since I'm so use to smashing the control stick for all my inputs that I'll instantly know after that fast fall, I won't make it back. This happens quite a bit when I do Dair, I die a little on the inside whenever that happens.

Don't worry though in SSB4 Link will have his hover boots and random bat wings to make his recovery one of the best.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

People seriously underestimate Link's recovery. He has a lot more options to deal with attackers off stage b/c his projectiles push them away. There are only a few characters that I feel are very well equipped to actually gimp Link.

/agree with OP

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

ganon can gimp link and im dead serious

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I can say that about any character that isn't MK. I'm dead serious.

 

[Scabe]

People seriously underestimate Link's recovery. He has a lot more options to deal with attackers off stage b/c his projectiles push them away. There are only a few characters that I feel are very well equipped to actually gimp Link.

/agree with OP

Quoted for awesome truth.

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

im not sure if you believe me or not but 1 back sided up air from ganon makes it impossible for link to recover. If you do have a bomb and it goes off ganon will just spike you. There is a reason link is low. The only way to make you the winner in any match is to stay firmly on the stage and projectile spam and space with zair.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

LOL, throw the bomb at Ganon.

I also <3 the thread tytle tipo.

 

[Mota]

I've always thought this too. Sure it's still a pretty meh recovery but it isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

I usually SD when going for a gimp

 

[Scabe]

Ganon's Tipman is pretty deadly on Link. I don't really get gimped by Ganon, I just get obliterated and die by them before they have a chance to gimp me lol.

Just watch any good Link and you'll see that they don't get gimped that much.

I couldn't find any recent Link vs Ganon vids but I found a super old thread with some: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=217983

I'm sure that Link doesn't get gimped that much in these vids but I'm probably wrong since I only watched the first match

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

whatever you still beat ganon in the MU but you're gonna eat a curb stomp from ganon once you're over the edge

 

[Huggles828]

1. Link's recovery is garbage since it doesn't go very far
2. Link has plenty of options when it comes to recovering and fighting off people who gimp; boomerang, bombs, airdodge -> grappling hook, DI and momentum canceling (kick your scrawny legs, Link! KICK FOR YOUR LIFE!)
3. If you play Link, you either learn very quickly how to avoid being gimped or you stop playing Link. It's like priority number one for someone who plays Link

Link is "easily gimped" because it only takes one or two hits to finish him offstage, but that doesn't mean Link is gonna make it easy on you to get those hits in

And I agree with Mota, I get gimped most often after a failed dair or nair gimp myself

 

[Judo777]

I think olimars recovery is worse honestly and ivysaurs if definitely the worst. Links is bad no doubt but link has options get back on stage via projectiles and tethers and his up b can be hard to stop sometimes. If they catch u far offstage yea ur dead but so is alot of other characters.

I do however thinks ganons is better simply because ganons aerials are pretty good and he can use them to cover himself while recovering. Plus u always gotta worry about him ganonciding u.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

It is widely regarded that Link's recovery is the worst in the game. Now, personally, I think it's more versatile and useful than Ganondorf's overall after DI and the grappling hook (I second OldManondorf), because Link has more options, but the Old Man does in fact have a longer recovery.

The fact is, the bomb is taken into account when people say Link's recovery is awful. It takes 7 seconds for the bomb to explode. If you are hit hard offstage, double jump and then pull out a bomb, you will likely not have 7 seconds to live before falling to your death, or you would be able to get back onstage anyway. Bombs are used to help recover, but it is only useful in a few situations. If Meta Knight knocks you off stage, he's not going to just sit there taunting. He's going to chase your *** down and begin a torrent of attacks to keep you off the edge, and in that situation you will probably need your split second of time to do something other than pulling out and holding on to a bomb, since having a bomb in your hands limits your choices in defending against opponents hunting you down off the edge. Also, unlike Snake, you can't attack your own bombs to make them blow up in your face.

You can hold onto a bomb before you get launched off stage, but even with bombsmashing and Zair and using aerials, it limits what you can do, especially since you're just holding on to Link's best projectile instead of using it in the fight, and it's not like you'd be able to time when the bomb would save you either.

So yes, bombs can help Link's recovery, and good players do keep these possibilities in mind, but overall, it's only useful in certain situations, and even considering this, Link's recovery is undoubtedly very near, if not THE worst in the game. Sad, but true

You make a really good argument, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and agree with your reasoning. Maybe you don't have the greatest recovery, and maybe not the worst either, but personally, I think that Link is still an extremely character to gimp. Without techs and a fast-at-thought mind, Link is, without argument the character with the worst recovery. Even with the bomb technique, I think that he's still extremely easy to gimp, due to the heavy-weight and lack of height the recovery actually gives him.

Ivysaur's and Olimar's recoveries are bad, too. In my opinion, Marth's it even bad, too. Unfortunately, even Yoshi has no recovery (other then egg gliding) after Double Jump. Then there's DK and Bowser for debate. So.. I really don't know who I'd define as having the "worst recovery."

 

[Huggles828]

True, I hadn't thought of Ivysaur. His recovery probably is the worst. Actually, I think Olimar has a good (not great) recovery, considering his slow falling speed, huge second jump, and his B up actually pops him up almost as high as Link's second jump even if it doesn't grab the edge(and he can move around like normal during it), and he can whistle to get super armor. Yoshi has the fastest air speed in the game, and his recovery is also surprisingly hard to gimp. Marth's does go almost straight up, but I'm pretty sure he's invincible somewhere in there (does anyone know for sure?) and sweetspotted it's got hella knockback. DK and Bowser.... I'm not sure.

OK, you've convinced me. Link's recovery is poor, not garbage. And with proper ATs and whatnot, it is quite hard to gimp. Hooray! A moral victory! Link for middle tier!

The problem with Ganon's recovery is his B up is actually incredibly dangerous; ROB and Meta Knight, for example, can fair him immediately after getting hugged and semispike Ganon. So Ganon actually is better off TRYING to miss people with his B up.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

True, I hadn't thought of Ivysaur. His recovery probably is the worst. Actually, I think Olimar has a good (not great) recovery, considering his slow falling speed, huge second jump, and his B up actually pops him up almost as high as Link's second jump even if it doesn't grab the edge(and he can move around like normal during it), and he can whistle to get super armor. Yoshi has the fastest air speed in the game, and his recovery is also surprisingly hard to gimp. Marth's does go almost straight up, but I'm pretty sure he's invincible somewhere in there (does anyone know for sure?) and sweetspotted it's got hella knockback. DK and Bowser.... I'm not sure.

OK, you've convinced me. Link's recovery is poor, not garbage. And with proper ATs and whatnot, it is quite hard to gimp. Hooray! A moral victory! Link for middle tier!

The problem with Ganon's recovery is his B up is actually incredibly dangerous; ROB and Meta Knight, for example, can fair him immediately after getting hugged and semispike Ganon. So Ganon actually is better off TRYING to miss people with his B up.

Not middle tier. Nowhere near it, honestly. lol. Sorry to say, but Link is still bottom tier. Just something mains of a particular chracter have to deal with. I'm not fond of Yoshi's tier placement, but I deal with it and use it to my advantage. I do my best to work my way up, and become more talented.

 

[Huggles828]

Not middle tier. Nowhere near it, honestly. lol. Sorry to say, but Link is still bottom tier.

Hahaha, I know, I was just kidding, but a man can dream, can't he?

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

Hahaha, I know, I was just kidding, but a man can dream, can't he?

Well, in that case... Yoshi for top tier! Any voters? xD

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

mks would still **** you. why not put MK is g tier it doesn't really matter where you put him... unless we ban him

 

[SN Viper]

Link's up b should just give him the Iron Boots and make him sink to the bottom to enable you to get back to fighting faster.

Yeah this would make the match much more smooth and compared to his current up b this might work better. If nothing else it will spair both players the futile attempt link will make even knowing he has no chance to get the cliff

 

[Lawz.]

ganon can gimp link and im dead serious

And vice versa. Do your research, most Link players know how bad he is

 

[Mr-R]

if u pull out a bomb everything u get hit offstage ( assuming u got the time ) by slightly tilting the contol stick so u wont fastfall and throw ur boomerang at the oponnent who's trying to gimp u. then its pretty hard to gimp link. people nowadays are seriously underrating link, his tier placement is also very wrong imo

 

[Huggles828]

if u pull out a bomb everything u get hit offstage ( assuming u got the time ) by slightly tilting the contol stick so u wont fastfall and throw ur boomerang at the oponnent who's trying to gimp u. then its pretty hard to gimp link. people nowadays are seriously underrating link, his tier placement is also very wrong imo

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a large portion of tier placement based on tournament placings? There's no way Zelda is third from bottom; she's there because nobody ever plays her at tournaments. Link is the same way; there aren't many good Link players out there, so he is lower than he could be. Plus a lot of it is the perception of that character's weaknesses vs. their strengths; in general, people consider Link's poor recovery so overwhelmingly crippling that he can't even compete (which isn't quite true), so given that perception, it seems only natural to put him in bottom tier. If there were tons of successful Link mains, he would be higher because they would see his poor recovery as a setback, but one that can be overcome.

I think Link can probably jump up another 5 or 6 spots to upper F tier, but Link is just too slow on top of his poor recovery to move into mid tier IMO (of course, I can always hope I'm proven wrong)

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a large portion of tier placement based on tournament placings? There's no way Zelda is third from bottom; she's there because nobody ever plays her at tournaments. Link is the same way; there aren't many good Link players out there, so he is lower than he could be. Plus a lot of it is the perception of that character's weaknesses vs. their strengths; in general, people consider Link's poor recovery so overwhelmingly crippling that he can't even compete (which isn't quite true), so given that perception, it seems only natural to put him in bottom tier. If there were tons of successful Link mains, he would be higher because they would see his poor recovery as a setback, but one that can be overcome.

I think Link can probably jump up another 5 or 6 spots to upper F tier, but Link is just too slow on top of his poor recovery to move into mid tier IMO (of course, I can always hope I'm proven wrong)

I still believe that even if every character was evenly played, that Zelda would still be bottom tier. Same goes for Link, too.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

There's honestly not much to help Link's recovery.

In addition to his regular jumps and up+B Link can:
Hold a bomb [totally impractical without limiting yourself to a select few moves].
D-air incoming projectiles and characters [not a common opportunity considering how situational it is].

That's about it. Both options are totally impractical. Tell me again how Link's recovery isn't crap?

Oh- don't forget: using special moves in mid-air will reduce your aerial mobility.

 

[Rizen]

Bombs explode after 7 seconds and that's often too long a wait. Distance-wise Olimar without Pikmin or a single Ice climber has longer recovery. Link's recovery is based on momentum and he falls fast; an Nair or weak attack>edgehogging KO's Link at low %s off stage. Any character can gimp Link.

Link does have several options like airdodge>Zair, whiplash, spamming, bombs, and Spin attack, but he falls fast, is slow, and has terrible distance and side-air movement. Side recoveries kill Link.

Ivysaur's worse, and in some situations Ganon and Olimar are worse in recovering but not always.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

Bombs explode after 7 seconds and that's often too long a wait. Distance-wise Olimar without Pikmin or a single Ice climber has longer recovery. Link's recovery is based on momentum and he falls fast; an Nair or weak attack>edgehogging KO's Link at low %s off stage. Any character can gimp Link.

Link does have several options like airdodge>Zair, whiplash, spamming, bombs, and Spin attack, but he falls fast, is slow, and has terrible distance and side-air movement. Side recoveries kill Link.

Ivysaur's worse, and in some situations Ganon and Olimar are worse in recovering but not always.

After 7 seconds? Never knew that... Then with that being said, it IS too late, and it's only useful if you have the bomb before you DI to your location, and use of recovery. Could be useful, but highly doubted.

There's honestly not much to help Link's recovery.

In addition to his regular jumps and up+B Link can:
Hold a bomb [totally impractical without limiting yourself to a select few moves].
D-air incoming projectiles and characters [not a common opportunity considering how situational it is].

That's about it. Both options are totally impractical. Tell me again how Link's recovery isn't crap?

Oh- don't forget: using special moves in mid-air will reduce your aerial mobility.

You could always use the tech that Diddy users master. Which would be the item toss cancel for attacks... Doesn't always limit your moves.

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

Are you fricking kidding me?

Congrats everyone, you have managed to post up 3 pages of crap about common Link '08 metagame: Hold a bomb in hand.

What a useless thread.

 

[Anonano]

Ivysaur's recovery is only worse in the Link vs Ivy MU. Link has projectiles that gimp Ivysaur. On the whole, however, Link's recovery is worse.

Also, Ganon v. Link gimping MU: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQoWV-pxyRE
LolfailDI.

But it just goes to show that Ganon's recovery is really about as bad as Link's. The only reason most people don't think so is because Ganon's MC sucks, so he has less chances to prove how bad his recovery really is, lol.

Bowser and DK have far better recoveries than Link. They are NOT bottom tier recoveries. They both actually have distance and priority. Against MK's transcendental priority their own priority doesn't really matter, of course, but against any other character you'll almost certainly make it back to stage. Plus they are really heavy with good MC's and their only weakness happens to be if you land a spike on them, which should be somewhat rare. You see, DK and Bowser can actually have a chance to AVOID those situations, unlike Link, Ganon, and Ivy.

Holding a bomb is a good idea, but it really requires a lot of practice and skill to get used to that playstyle. Taking my own effort to develop that sort of playstyle into account, I think the normal and bomb-holding styles are about equal. They both have some advantages, but both have a lot of serious disadvantages.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

Ivysaur's recovery is only worse in the Link vs Ivy MU. Link has projectiles that gimp Ivysaur. On the whole, however, Link's recovery is worse.

Also, Ganon v. Link gimping MU: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQoWV-pxyRE
LolfailDI.

But it just goes to show that Ganon's recovery is really about as bad as Link's. The only reason most people don't think so is because Ganon's MC sucks, so he has less chances to prove how bad his recovery really is, lol.

Bowser and DK have far better recoveries than Link. They are NOT bottom tier recoveries. They both actually have distance and priority. Against MK's transcendental priority their own priority doesn't really matter, of course, but against any other character you'll almost certainly make it back to stage. Plus they are really heavy with good MC's and their only weakness happens to be if you land a spike on them, which should be somewhat rare. You see, DK and Bowser can actually have a chance to AVOID those situations, unlike Link, Ganon, and Ivy.

Holding a bomb is a good idea, but it really requires a lot of practice and skill to get used to that playstyle. Taking my own effort to develop that sort of playstyle into account, I think the normal and bomb-holding styles are about equal. They both have some advantages, but both have a lot of serious disadvantages.

Simply holding the ledge gimps Ivysaur... Link can still recover if one is holding the ledge.

 

[Huggles828]

Simply holding the ledge gimps Ivysaur... Link can still recover if one is holding the ledge.

If you're not right on time, though, "simply holding the ledge" is likely to result in both of you dying; Ivy will stage spike you with his B up. Link, and others with a tether recovery like Lucas, Samus or Toon Link, can use the hookshot, etc. to refresh their invincibility frames, improving their chances of gimping Ivysaur. Plus, if they get hit in the split second they're regrabbing the edge, they're currently grabbing on with their bodies level with/above the edge, making it less likely they'll bounce into the level and get stagespiked.

 

[demonictoonlink]

No one thinks Link has the worst recovery...lol

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

No one thinks Link has the worst recovery...lol

I do. Repeating what I said before LInk should just get the Iron boots to make him sink to the bottom and get back to the fighting faster

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Oh and Ike's F-smash is broken and I can't seem to avoid Zelda's Firey thingies.[/sarcasm]

Btw, DI up. It reduces a lot of the amount of distance you have to cover and gives you leway.