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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

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Linguini

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
4,698
Location
Weston, Florida
Wait dorsey is ace's bro? LOL it all makes sense now

btw i'll prob be at CEO, Evo is way too far and I have no desire to go to vegas...

going to cali memorial day weekend, might try to hit up a tourney if I have time
 
F. Stein

F. Stein

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
237
Location
Wyoming
I'm still giving some serious thought to going to evo, depends on what i get for work during the summer. Would be cool to go and see everything happening.
 
L

Linguini

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
4,698
Location
Weston, Florida
Considering i've partied all over the us(and europe) I know vegas has nothing to offer me lol...music scene is terrible and that's what i'm about. Miami has a better party/music scene already. Plus CEO is a 3 hr drive fo me
 
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RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
1,744
Location
Greensboro, NC
Dorsey1 said:
Banning and/or infracting me = kissing my *** that 4 stocked your ganon with ness.
Click to expand...
That was like two years ago. Damn time flies. Next time I see you and there's Melee around we'll do a rematch for sure. I still remember what you told me on Facebook in the days after that party. Man that was something else. Still can't believe how drunk I got.
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
Location
Lowell, MA
tm said:
I'm going to say that I don't think you should ALWAYS go for a 2nd stomp.
reason 1: when it doesn't actually combo, she does have a decent chance of airdodging away -> punishing, or hitting you with nair first (but bad peaches just try to jump / float away which won't work)
reason 2: keeping peach above you is better positioning, and can lead to more hits (and more good positioning, and more hits etc. (unless you are very bad at hitting peach on her descent or are getting outplayed a lot))

but I do like the double stomp when it's easy to space well or when it's guaranteed (not that often)
Click to expand...
Just tested and it goes into the late 30s if platforms don't get away. However, you have to be increasingly frame perfect the nearer you get to 40. Peach stays in hit lag for a very long time out of dair.

I think whether you do double dair or not depends on location and percent. If you are below a platform and do uair off the dair at a low percent, for example, you might not be able to set up for a good juggle. But at higher percents relative to the range this is guaranteed, uair or fair are probably better bets.
 
D

Dorsey1

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
10
People go to Vegas to gamble. The casinos are bigger, nicer, **** ton of stuff to do on the side, etc. That being said, just hit up that hard rock you can see from 95 near ft Lauderdale, lol.
 
D

Dorsey1

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
10
Locke Robster said:
That was like two years ago. Damn time flies. Next time I see you and there's Melee around we'll do a rematch for sure. I still remember what you told me on Facebook in the days after that party. Man that was something else. Still can't believe how drunk I got.
Click to expand...
CRAZY. I can't believe it either. Locke was so drunk that he lost to me. So unexpected!
 
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F. Stein

F. Stein

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Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
237
Location
Wyoming
xD free drinks... sounds like a bad idea.

Went to a weekly today in a better scene then mine, won two games which is my goal down there lol. How does one learn to play campy, like super laser campy but then look at you innocently and ask "what do you mean I'm camping?" roflmao.
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
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Location
Lowell, MA
Just tested some ways to punish Fox usmash on shield:

Distance / Direction to Fox / Shield DI / OOS Option

Close / Toward / In / Up-b
Close and Medium / Away / In / FF bair

I think people already knew these ones, but I just wanted to see for myself. There are more combinations that work for these, this was just what I decided to test tonight.

Close / Away / In / Dair
Close / Away / None / Dair

Not sure if this is old news or not, but dair is possible, but it has to be frame perfect. You should hit it on frame 40 (for Fox), literally the frame right before he goes back into wait.

I tried to see if I could get it with consistency irl by having my friend usmash my shield and then buffer his own shield. As I suspected, fp dair oos isn't that bad on usmash. If you use c stick to buffer your jump out oos and flick it down, you can get dair out fp. There are a good number frames of shield stun, plus Ganon's got a long ass jump squat. That's a lot of frames to react.

I didn't have time to test all the other distances and directions of shield DI. My suspicion was dair would work facing away because the hitbox in the back is slightly larger. But given I could get it off without shield DI at a close distance, I think it might work at a medium distance too and maybe facing forward close up.
 
T

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,349
X WaNtEd X said:
Not sure if this is old news or not, but dair is possible, but it has to be frame perfect. You should hit it on frame 40 (for Fox), literally the frame right before he goes back into wait.
Click to expand...
To me it seems you should be able to hit the dair frame 39 of foxes upsmash, which would leave 3 frame window for dair OoS to work.

Frame 7: upsmash hits shield. 10 frames of stun
8-17: shieldstun
18-23: jumpsquat
24-38: 15 frames of dair startup.
39: dair hits.

Foxes upsmash is 41 frames long according to the framedata thread, so if that's correct, he shouldn't be able to shield before frame 42. Also if the upsmash is staled at all, it'll deal only 9 frames of stun.
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
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Location
Lowell, MA
tauKhan said:
To me it seems you should be able to hit the dair frame 39 of foxes upsmash, which would leave 3 frame window for dair OoS to work.

Frame 7: upsmash hits shield. 10 frames of stun
8-17: shieldstun
18-23: jumpsquat
24-38: 15 frames of dair startup.
39: dair hits.

Foxes upsmash is 41 frames long according to the framedata thread, so if that's correct, he shouldn't be able to shield before frame 42. Also if the upsmash is staled at all, it'll deal only 9 frames of stun.
Click to expand...
So for me, dair was coming out on 39, but it took another frame to drift in for it to actually hit. I'll have to test again to see if I could save a frame somehow.

Also I did this for stale usmash for the most part. But I think I did it fresh once or twice by accident. Again, I'll go back and differentiate.
 
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PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
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Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
I almost exclusively wd oos pivot grab now if I'm facing away. I used to do jab because it was guaranteed, but I legitimately have yet to have a fox NOT shield when I'm facing away. I'm not sure what it is, maybe because I've previously conditioned them to shield the jab?

If I'm facing toward, I'll fair them. There are a few more frames to mess around with for fair, as opposed to dair. Still have problems with hitting shield, but I'd like to perfect it. Shoutouts to tm for letting me know that that's a thing. I should probably just wd oos and grab though lol, they're shielding anyway and grab is generally a better punish.
 
RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

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Couldn't you just hold in the direction you wavedashed in, and as the frame that you start turning around you press just Z, you'll do a grab in the other direction? That's at least the easiest way I know of. It comes down purely to a matter of timing at that point.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
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Messages
11,536
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The back country, GA
Locke Robster said:
Couldn't you just hold in the direction you wavedashed in, and as the frame that you start turning around you press just Z, you'll do a grab in the other direction? That's at least the easiest way I know of. It comes down purely to a matter of timing at that point.
Click to expand...
You won't get a smash turn will you? I think you need to flick the stick and return to neutral and grab immediately for a true pivot grab. You definitely can't jc grab by holding a direction, unless you slam the stick like a frame before the last move ends
 
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RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
Joined
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Messages
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Greensboro, NC
-ACE- said:
You won't get a smash turn will you? I think you need to flick the stick and return to neutral and grab immediately for a true pivot grab. You definitely can't jc grab by holding a direction, unless you slam the stick like a frame before the last move ends
Click to expand...
Nope. You can do a normal turning grab without having to do a smash turn on the first frame of your turning animation. This only works with grab and attacks, as jumping and shielding will still turn you back to your original position, unless you smash turn.
 
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Divinokage

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
X WaNtEd X said:
Just tested some ways to punish Fox usmash on shield:

Distance / Direction to Fox / Shield DI / OOS Option

Close / Toward / In / Up-b
Close and Medium / Away / In / FF bair

I think people already knew these ones, but I just wanted to see for myself. There are more combinations that work for these, this was just what I decided to test tonight.

Close / Away / In / Dair
Close / Away / None / Dair

Not sure if this is old news or not, but dair is possible, but it has to be frame perfect. You should hit it on frame 40 (for Fox), literally the frame right before he goes back into wait.

I tried to see if I could get it with consistency irl by having my friend usmash my shield and then buffer his own shield. As I suspected, fp dair oos isn't that bad on usmash. If you use c stick to buffer your jump out oos and flick it down, you can get dair out fp. There are a good number frames of shield stun, plus Ganon's got a long *** jump squat. That's a lot of frames to react.

I didn't have time to test all the other distances and directions of shield DI. My suspicion was dair would work facing away because the hitbox in the back is slightly larger. But given I could get it off without shield DI at a close distance, I think it might work at a medium distance too and maybe facing forward close up.
Click to expand...
Ya i've done downair before but you have to be really close to Fox, it doesn't happen often from a Usmash.
 
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