Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[PseudoTurtle]

PseudoTurtle I kind of want to try instant ledgehop dj uair regrab after the Marth killer on a fireball.

Yoooo I never even thought of that. I usually just wait and try to decide between ledge drop up air or ledge hop up air. I wonder if ledge hop up air regrab would be a punish with fame advantage. If so, that's a game changer.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Coastward Yo I just got done recording a bunch of friendlies. I think there's some good stuff in there for the Ganon combo video. I have the raw files. You think you would be okay with that?

 

[Coastward]

Coastward Yo I just got done recording a bunch of friendlies. I think there's some good stuff in there for the Ganon combo video. I have the raw files. You think you would be okay with that?

yeah thats cool, how big is the file?

 

[RedmanSSBM]

yeah thats cool, how big is the file?

I have three files, 2.6 GB, 1.75 GB, and 5.82 GB. But not all of them have me playing as Ganon.
I could separate all of the videos and re-render them to just have Ganondorf if that would help you out.

 

[Coastward]

I have three files, 2.6 GB, 1.75 GB, and 5.82 GB. But not all of them have me playing as Ganon.
I could separate all of the videos and re-render them to just have Ganondorf if that would help you out.

yeah thatd make things A LOT easier cuz thats a **** ton of stuff to go through.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

yeah thatd make things A LOT easier cuz thats a **** ton of stuff to go through.

Okay so it's a total of 1 hour and 40 minutes of Ganon footage. Most of it is me being bodied by my Falco friend, but there are some golden nuggets in there that I think you can use.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Yo I don't know how y'all feel about music while playing. Personally I've tried a lot of different stuff in tournament but I've never been able to tell what was objectively the best for me.

Alyssa hess, gravy's gf, posted some cool stuff in my region's facebook page about how to find the optimal music/sounds to listen to while playing. It varies from person to person (some people play better with upbeat music, others with mellow music, and some are better with ingame audio). She studies something to do with neuroscience within esports so she's a credible source. Very interesting stuff.

Spoiler

So, this was my procedure:
First, gravy chose a move sequence - basically four different movements that were character specific and still relatively simple (shorthop nair, stuff like that. no crazy combos, but still technical movements). These movements would be done back to back in frame counter, i.e. they had to be frame perfect. If he did the first one perfectly, he could move on to the next one. If he messed up at all, he'd have to start over. Make sense?
Next, we chose four different style musics. First, we chose a classical song. Then, an upbeat electronica song. Third, a white noise track, and lastly, game sound. He listened to each of them for the same amount of time with the same headphones.
We chose a random order to do the music/game test. You have to do this for four days, or at least four pretty separate sessions, to get the full effect. Obviously, you'll be better at this by the fourth track than you were at the first. Make sure you do a different order every day!
What we found was that he was best with the game sound, but that sort of led him on a path to realize that the audio cues from the game were so critical, that he now does a splitter and headphones during every set. In case you didn't know, you react faster to audio cues than you do to visual ones, so if you can listen super hardcore to what's happening in-game, you can actually have faster reactions to certain things.
On the flip side, for some people, doing the game audio and headphones can feel like too much pressure, and they like disappearing into music or being able to hear the crowd one way or another (gahtzu likes to hear the crowd, for example). That's fine - just make sure you figure out what type of music works best for you.
After we did the four different types, gravy said it was pretty clear to him that the white noise was a no go, like absolutely not, and that of the music groups, he liked the classical best (and played best with classical). Just for what it's worth.

I think I'm going to try this with Ganon. Any recommendations on movement sequences to use? I also don't know the numbers for any frame perfect movement sequences, so if anyone could fill me in on that it would be helpful.

 

[Linguini]

At 20:15 I crush hungry pidgeon so disrespectfully
https://www.twitch.tv/vsgc/v/64061822

 

[-ACE-]

Lol nice. I swagged on him hard a few times game 2 when I played him but he played a lot better game 3. I'm hardly ever on stream tho lol

 

[spider_sense]

Yo I don't know how y'all feel about music while playing. Personally I've tried a lot of different stuff in tournament but I've never been able to tell what was objectively the best for me.

Alyssa hess, gravy's gf, posted some cool stuff in my region's facebook page about how to find the optimal music/sounds to listen to while playing. It varies from person to person (some people play better with upbeat music, others with mellow music, and some are better with ingame audio). She studies something to do with neuroscience within esports so she's a credible source. Very interesting stuff.


I think I'm going to try this with Ganon. Any recommendations on movement sequences to use? I also don't know the numbers for any frame perfect movement sequences, so if anyone could fill me in on that it would be helpful.

The only gripe I have with listening to music, is that it takes away from the adaption phase/learning aspect of melee, but it probably depends on the player.

 

[-ACE-]

I think the only time I'd really want music while playing is if I was somehow on a huge stage and the crowd was getting on my nerves (most likely it'll never happen). I really like using the in-game audio cues to my advantage.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I think the only time I'd really want music while playing is if I was somehow on a huge stage and the crowd was getting on my nerves (most likely it'll never happen). I really like using the in-game audio cues to my advantage.

I'm on the same page here. If there is a lot of distracting noise around me when I'm playing and I can't use my headphones to get in-game audio, then I'm just put on some music and hope for the best.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Eddie Footage!

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Well my tournaments are usually loud and often the tvs don't have volume or one tv is way louder than the others so I can't even hear the ingame music.

 

[-ACE-]

Ideally, I like the music to be faint but there, and the sound fx to be a good bit higher than normal.

 

[Thomas Tipman]

might see you at vs ace

 

[-ACE-]

might see you at vs ace

Having a b**r in the parking lot already looool

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I play with the music off on my setup, only sound effects.

 

[Divinokage]

How about the music of your soul?

 

[Diosama]

Went to my first tournament in 2 months last saturday.

Beat 2nd seed, lost to 4th seed in pools.

And Kage told me to kms.

FeelsBadMan

 

[Divinokage]

You asked for it! lol

 

[Diosama]

lol

Time to start practicing again. Let's play this wednesday at the weekly

 

[Bwmat]

Me vs dawreck (peach)
5:53:25 @ http://www.twitch.tv/vanstreetbattle/v/65162696?sr=a

Go Ganon games 2 & 3

How do I beat peach, other than sding less?

I rage hard at the end, ugh

 

[-ACE-]

One of these days I'll have Wi-Fi and a computer lol. Having nothing but a phone sucks for twitch. Honestly I think bair wrecks peach. And being able to get grabs. The rest is just having good spacing and decision making. It's one of those matchups where you have to focus the entire time like vs puff. It can be tedious. I have trouble beating peach players in my region despite 2-3 stocking them game 2 consistently on BF. My mentality needs work. I need to care more lol

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Me vs dawreck (peach)
5:53:25 @ http://www.twitch.tv/vanstreetbattle/v/65162696?sr=a

Go Ganon games 2 & 3

How do I beat peach, other than sding less?

I rage hard at the end, ugh

Peach is BY FAR my worst high tier matchup, so if you find out, let me know lol. I'm bad at the neutral game, I always seem to just get hit by moves. Anyway, your punish game could use some work. For example, since up air / fair won't kill, you should pretty much always go for another stomp after stomp, just because it's extra % and a potential tech chase. Fair is your best punish after a dthrow unless you wanna yolo it with upsmash (EARLY KILLS), no need to use up air.

Non character specific thing, but dawreck shielded a lot, so you should be punishing that. Like ace said, grabs are important in this matchup because you get your guaranteed punishes. Kinda like marth. Idk, I'm pretty bad at the matchup, so what I'm saying may not be true, but peach is a slow character, so I'd imagine she should be shielding a lot, which makes grabs pretty free. But I always lose anyway LOL so maybe not

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I just play Marth vs Peach now. I can control the pace of the match much better with Marth, not to mention recovering as Marth is a lot harder for Peach to cover than for Ganon. Of course I don't get much practice against Peach cause we have no active Peach mains here, but someone does have a pretty decent Peach secondary.

 

[Dorsey1]

@Jason- is that Olivia munn as your avatar?

@Locke- did you enjoy sucking nuts to become a moderator?

 

[RedmanSSBM]

[USER=334061]@Locke- did you enjoy sucking nuts to become a moderator?[/USER]

[COLOR=#00b300]If anything @-ACE- was the one who vouched for me to be mod. It took a while, but now that I have it I'm going to improve these boards so that the good information is more accessible for newer Ganons.

I could infract you both on that remark and on making an alternate account, but since I know you personally I'll let it slide for now. Just be wary, I won't take actual action unless you do something really rash or stupid. I know you're smarter than that though. [/COLOR]

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Me vs dawreck (peach)
5:53:25 @ http://www.twitch.tv/vanstreetbattle/v/65162696?sr=a

Go Ganon games 2 & 3

How do I beat peach, other than sding less?

I rage hard at the end, ugh

I think Peach is one of my better MUs. I have xp against Mafia, who is one of the best Peaches in the US.

First, you need to respect Peach's shield. Unless you fh dair her shield, dair is very unsafe. It has its place, mainly to catch her jumping (do fh dair if you read jumps and then tech chase) and to punish obvious dsmashes. And you should be spacing fair and bair so that Ganon's fist is what's making contact; avoid the arms.

Next, you failed to cover her air dodge many times when you had her trying to get back down to the ground. When she air dodges near the ground, you can often just grab her before she can do anything. You can also jab, obviously, but grab is better. You'd sometimes freeze up after whiffing an aerial on her airdodge and then she would just dsmash you or get out of there.

Speaking of grabs, you didn't grab enough in general. Watch how early a Peach shields when you are in the air spacing an aerial. If you notice that she stays in shield through a long time of your aerial drifting, you probably can get a tomahawk off. Just go for that more. Mix it up with wavelands facing both directions. Waveland backwards and turn around grab or just turn around grab out of an empty hop catches people offguard because the visual cue of you facing the wrong way makes the grab unexpected.

You need more of a ground game to beat things like dash attack. Just straight up wavedash ftilt and jab are great mixups you should try to work into your game. And when Peach does that thing where they fullhop float and then fast fall a fair when you approach you can beat fair with angled ftilt. Ftilt is great at beating floating peaches of all heights I think.

On the defensive side, you missed a lot of easy techs. General flubs like that need cleanup. You looked mad/tilted, so maybe that was all it was. If your shield is low, make sure you buffer roll when Peach does dsmash shield pressure. You got hit by that a bit. If you're really fast and have full shield, you can shield DI it away, let down your shield, and then dsmash to punish (ty based kage). I think you might be able to do other stuff too, but I've never been able to pull this off in tournament so I'm not sure. When she starts covering your rolls by not dsmashing after an aerial on shield, you then can start to do things like fair/bair/dair oos and wd oos. And if she tries to edgeguard you by grabbing ledge, getting up into dsmash, simply SDI down for just one of the hits so you get sent the opposite direction and not offstage.

e: Oh and final note, when you get a stomp, you pretty much always want to stomp again. Once she gets to about 50, you aren't going to get followups off stomp unless you get one from below the platform. And because you can't count on edgeguarding her like you can with other characters, damage > putting her offstage. Plus you get to tech chase off stomp from the air so you have the potential to put on more damage or possibly kill her depending on the percent.

e2: dammit i just notice pseudo said that.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

but peach is a slow character, so I'd imagine she should be shielding a lot, which makes grabs pretty free. But I always lose anyway LOL so maybe not

There are a lot of Peaches in Boston and every Peach I've played so far shields a lot. The difference between the bad Peaches and the good Peaches is that the good Peaches wait until the last second to shield and try to powershield often. And because they wait so long, it makes it tricky to tomahawk because you don't get that visual cue while you're in the air. Mafia actually covers my tomahawks by waiting to powershield a spaced aerial and then reacting when I don't aerial by either jabbing, dash attacking, or dsmashing. And then when you don't tomahawk you can get punished very easily off of powershields. Even without them, fc aerials oss definitely keep your shield pressure honest.

 

[-ACE-]

No one ever talks about it but there are quite a few peaches in SFL... Eliott, hungrypigeon, stockholm syndrome, Lex, hoodmelon.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Have any of them traveled? I feel like Eliott would do well out of state.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

-ACE- L Linguini spider_sense Thomas Tipman and any other Florida Ganons.

If enough of you confirm to go to CEO 2016, then I'll definitely try to make my way down there. I was pretty disappointed in how few Ganons there were at CEO 2015, only Ian and Bizz were there as far as I remember.

I'd mostly want to come down just to hang with you guys and have some beers. We don't even have to play Melee, I just want to hang with Florida people cause they are awesome.

 

[-ACE-]

Have any of them traveled? I feel like Eliott would do well out of state.

Eliott always makes it out of round 1 and loses somewhere in round 2 iirc.. Like top 128ish

 

[-ACE-]

RedmanSSBM idk unfortunately. Money is low until I go back to work in a few months and I have to save....

 

[tm]

I'm going to say that I don't think you should ALWAYS go for a 2nd stomp.
reason 1: when it doesn't actually combo, she does have a decent chance of airdodging away -> punishing, or hitting you with nair first (but bad peaches just try to jump / float away which won't work)
reason 2: keeping peach above you is better positioning, and can lead to more hits (and more good positioning, and more hits etc. (unless you are very bad at hitting peach on her descent or are getting outplayed a lot))

but I do like the double stomp when it's easy to space well or when it's guaranteed (not that often)

 

[Divinokage]

-ACE- L Linguini spider_sense Thomas Tipman and any other Florida Ganons.

If enough of you confirm to go to CEO 2016, then I'll definitely try to make my way down there. I was pretty disappointed in how few Ganons there were at CEO 2015, only Ian and Bizz were there as far as I remember.

I'd mostly want to come down just to hang with you guys and have some beers. We don't even have to play Melee, I just want to hang with Florida people cause they are awesome.

Thats because Ganon mains are poor and i think when we choose between CEO or EVO, we would choose EVO every time.

 

[Dorsey1]

[COLOR=#00b300]If anything @-ACE- was the one who vouched for me to be mod. It took a while, but now that I have it I'm going to improve these boards so that the good information is more accessible for newer Ganons.

I could infract you both on that remark and on making an alternate account, but since I know you personally I'll let it slide for now. Just be wary, I won't take actual action unless you do something really rash or stupid. I know you're smarter than that though. [/COLOR]

Lmao. It was a joke, but how about this: suck my **** kid, and it better be good since we know each other personally.

 

[Thomas Tipman]

Lmao. It was a joke, but how about this: suck my **** kid, and it better be good since we know each other personally.

post #4

 

[Dorsey1]

Banning and/or infracting me = kissing my ass that 4 stocked your ganon with ness.