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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
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Lowell, MA
-ACE- said:
That's just my advice after practicing this cg ever since magus created that thread. That thing is like a bible. It lays out basically everything.
Click to expand...
Yeah I really want to practice this on spacies. But there are not many good falcos in MA. The best is MDZ and he is hard to play because he is very busy. So until I can get that kind of practice consistently, I'm doing what I can to improve my chaingrabbing game.

That thread is really good. I've read through it many times. But I'm starting to find things it's missing.

For one, the reaction times are not there.

There is also not really an explanation for why to start jc grabs earlier than you have. I think the implication is the frame window is too tight to practically get the non jc grabs. But I'd like to see that for myself and lay it out for others.
 
F. Stein

F. Stein

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Fourstock him as Ganon and then switch to young link to destroy his hopes with bomb/boomerang camping :U
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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The back country, GA
Lost to kaike on stream, I'm now down 2-1 in sets. Then I lost to yoshi lmao. Got the woman to drive so I was extra wasted. Entered as prof sucks LOL
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
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Messages
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NE stream last night: "Ganon loses hard to ICs. Kage only wins because he hard reads every hit he gets in neutral."

I was triggered
 
Diosama

Diosama

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Montreal, QC
lmao that's the dumbest statement ever. Ganon maintains space in that mu almost as well as Marth, except every hit also separates them. Kage's neutral isn't even anything superb, idk why they made that connection.
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Lowell, MA
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrk1E9c-bAhXBjUSoK9VaISaqJik0eesu

New playlist I made for Ganon vs. Falcon in 2015 - present. RedmanSSBM RedmanSSBM add this to the video archives when you do work on that. It pretty much has every recent example of Ganon vs. Falcon with the top Ganons. Includes Falcons of all levels, ranging from S2J, Wizzrobe, Ghatzu, n0ne, and Gravy to the randoms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndSMVbsfRRw

The lost set of Eikelmann vs. Vish. Apparently it was too low quality for Gimr to upload. Guess he's still mad at him after that argument over getting into the salty suite back in 2014 lol.
 
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-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
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Messages
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The back country, GA
It's nothing but suck mango's **** nonstop and pretend east coast scar didn't exist. I met the guy like 10 years ago, he's a bonified ****boy lol, always will be. I just laugh at that ****.
 
F. Stein

F. Stein

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Can someone just like... Ganon him hard so he gets an attitude adjustment? lol A chaingrab from someone or an Utilt from bizz should do the trick.
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Lowell, MA
Finished the first section of data on Falco for the chaingrab breakdown I'm working on for spacies.

This is the first section of the data for the chaingrab on Falco. This phase of the chaingrab goes up to the percent where Falco can DI far away enough to force Ganon to dash jc grab.

This section breaks down what frames you need to react by to hit certain DI up to where it is no longer possible to grab Falco while standing if he DIs away. It includes the frame before Falco hits the ground on DI in, away, and no DI. It covers the latest frame you can stand grab, turn around grab, dash jc grab, backdash jc grab, and the latest frame you can react (my definition is make a decision and choose an input) to react to all DI. These frames are all the frames after Falco has taken damage from the throw.

I started this at 40 because I'm hypothesizing that it will be humanly impossible to do it under that. Later I'll fill in the blanks for all the impractical percents, including the really high percents once I get there.

N/As are there because backdash grab is impossible at those percents.

The percents are after the throw damage. So subtract 7 to get what the percent would be prior to throw damage.

You will also notice that there are a few percents where the last frames make a certain type of grab go down and then back up. This is because of the way Falco falls. At these percents, his hurtbox happens to flail so that his head is facing you instead of his feet, thus forcing you to react a frame quicker to hit the grab. I did a lot of checks to make sure I was seeing it right, but I'm very confident this is accurate. You can always go and test yourself if you don't believe it.

Final thing I want to talk about is the lack of reaction times in my data. I'm holding off on making assumptions about reaction time for now. The more research I'm doing the more I'm finding that it is very complicated to determine reaction time for choice scenarios. There is also some debate in academia as to whether choice reaction time revolves around log or power functions based on how many choices there are to make. However, I've found some formulas that can definitely be applied to Melee if I can find a way to approximate certain variables. For now, I'm taking pictures of Falco in hitstun for the first 10 frames out of the dthrow for DI behind, no DI, and DI away at every percent. By at least frame 10, I reason a noticeable visual cue for the DI should be apparent. Later, I'll edit the pictures for side-by-side comparisons at each frame to determine the actual frame for each percent you get a cue.

Enjoy the numbers peeps.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BneNGdlOQ1FetEVPQTPBL3L2LAs6tdoc-NtvPz7Urkw/edit?usp=sharing
 
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RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
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Sup guys. Just got back from Seattle. Actually got to play a bit of Melee, even though I didn't have my controller.

The only notable player you guys would be familiar with that I got to play was Eggz. He was a pretty cool dude to play and he's still pretty damn good. He also said he's really trying to get a stream going. His Fox is definitely all over the place, often falling from top platforms with a bair and then pushing me off stage from there. It was definitely fun to get to play him while I was there, and his Mario was really fun too haha. Everyone else there was pretty bad to pretty decent. The PRed players that were there that weren't SilentWolf or Bladewise I went pretty even with, or they were slightly better than me. Overall I played some pretty solid Melee while in Seattle. I got to practice a lot of edgeguarding on Eggz' Fox.

X WaNtEd X X WaNtEd X Yo sick data that you got there for Falco CG. It's a shame that my pure reaction time is like 30 frames for 4 different simuli, but it's around 20 frames if I'm just reacting to one thing, but I'd certainly like to give this more of an actual try to purely react to it instead of just free-balling it.

Also, I really want to see all of the Ganon videos I missed while I was gone. -ACE- -ACE- There was a TGL monthly this past saturday and you, spider sense, and Linguini went? I need the vids homie! :denzel:
 
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B

Bwmat

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665
Which Washington pr players did you play against? Bladewise/vino/iceman were over here in BC on sat
 
B

Bwmat

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Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
665
I played bladewise for like 30min in friendlies and got wrecked. Funny thing is that I did best in the first game as ganon on fd lol
 
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RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

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Bwmat said:
Which Washington pr players did you play against? Bladewise/vino/iceman were over here in BC on sat
Click to expand...
I played against OutTheCuts (10th) and Vino (3rd) a bit on Friday actually. I played Cuts a lot and found him to be pretty difficult at first, but then I started to go even with him later on. Against Vino I only managed to play like 3 games, in which I lost all of them, but I kept it close making sure it was down to the last stock.
 
L

Linguini

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Weston, Florida
Yeah vids should be up on youtube soon.

I got bodied by plup(i'm convinced sheik/ganon in 2016 is impossible). He doesn't miss chaingrabs, and sheik can get out of ganon's cg much more easily.

Lost to porkchops in a close set game 5. Was bodying him with ganon but we went to FoD twice (where I go marth) and lost. I didn't know you couldn't go back to a stage you won on 2-3 games before. DSR has changed since back then LOL I lost the set cuz of it.

Me and spidersense had a dope ditto that went to the 5th game...peep dat when it's out
 
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