Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Bwmat]

Ganon only has prediction tech chasing lol.

It's pretty funny when it works though

 

[X WaNtEd X]

when is ganon reaction techchasing happening?

Never. But positional reaction tech chasing is a thing

 

[-ACE-]

when is ganon reaction techchasing happening?

On platforms.

 

[spider_sense]

Went to GGL this Friday, lost to Camilo's Fox and Hungry Pigeon. Got 4th cause I played like dookie. I need to somehow break my 4th and 5th placing at these locals and monthlies, just don't know what I really need to work on. Did figure out some broken **** against Peach tho, Upsmash oos covers turnips throws if you time it right, if it's not a stitch face or a dotted eyes then the the hitboxes of Ganon's upsmash should negate any other turnip completely if done right, plus it'll keep you safe in neutral. Along with being able to catch a turnip. It looks like Peaches love to run away and camp so they can re-establish neutral, but if you're able to guess correctly; just simply throw out a hitbox (whether its a fair or tilt) in their general direction. I might have to go with z dropping her turnips more.

Also realized I need to mash out of grabs way more, so my question to you guys would be what would be the most practical way to mash out of grabs? (I heard rotating the control stick helps the game register multiple inputs as oppose to just going super ham on the stick) My decision making could be alot better, but I need to work on my patience, and keeping focused and attentive.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I'm kinda skeptical of the usmash oos. Are there vods/examples?

 

[spider_sense]

I'm kinda skeptical of the usmash oos. Are there vods/examples?

No one really messes with the tech since everyone here thinks its impractical, but I find it's very useful in certain situations and since its deceptive due to its bad startup but it has amazing recovery, so you can do the jab or tilt or even up-b os, it just takes an innovative mixup game to deal with certain situations. I did it a few times vs Gravy back when we played mad sets (I remember doing one on Pokemon to stuff an incoming nair approach) but as Peach, I'd say whenever she's floating about mid Ganon height, she'll want to punish the upsmash with a fair or nair or just let herself drop, all which means she can't be directly above you because of how hard of a punish it is. I really want you guys to explore that tech and not pass it off because this is meta pushing for Ganon, just think of this tech as another useful anti air if anything. Also, been messing with the c-stick buffer jumping. That really helps with Ganon's overall movement, but I don't see anybody else use it and it's one the methods Falcon's use to get pivot aerials out so quickly (refer to Gravy's demonstration vod about it) I actually been delving into this tech, and I'm probably the fastest Ganon when I use it correctly.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I did it a few times vs Gravy back when we played mad sets (I remember doing one on Pokemon to stuff an incoming nair approach)

I remember this. I did it against Gravy too and it randomly worked several times lol. Now I use it on Falcons that cross me up too much.

but as Peach, I'd say whenever she's floating about mid Ganon height, she'll want to punish the upsmash with a fair or nair or just let herself drop, all which means she can't be directly above you because of how hard of a punish it is.

So like right after she throws a turnip and then floats you might be able to catch her with usmash as she's coming to do some shield pressure? It always feels like the interval between the turnip and the nair is too short to do anything. But maybe I'm not looking close enough sometimes.

 

[spider_sense]

I remember this. I did it against Gravy too and it randomly worked several times lol. Now I use it on Falcons that cross me up too much.



So like right after she throws a turnip and then floats you might be able to catch her with up smash as she's coming to do some shield pressure? It always feels like the interval between the turnip and the nair is too short to do anything. But maybe I'm not looking close enough sometimes.

Yeah, it should work it's just a matter of timing. Obviously you have to be mindful of the turnips she's holding in her hand. Cause stitch faces and dots will outweigh any priority that up smash has. However, the recovery frames on up smash should give Ganon some additional plus frames to become active again. You don't necessarily have to commit to a move, but just have Ganon mobile and ready to react to your opponent should be good enough. Also, up smash oos is really good for punishing Peaches that like to down smash the second they land on platforms. If you're successful with the timing, it'll do more damage than a uair and offers better knock-back with the potential for a strong conversion. Plus you don't have to worry about jumping into the broken bull**** priority of downsmash. I strongly believe this move; if incorporated correctly, could be a destructive anti air, let alone the pressure of not wanting to get kicked in your ****. The worst case scenario is that they don't commit and you have to reestablish neutral; which is fine because its Ganon. This tech could be very useful for Marth/Falcons/Peach/Fox/Samus/Luigi/Shiek/Puff.

 

[Thomas Tipman]

mashing out of a grab fast by rotating the control stick as fast as possible while mashing buttons. that rotation makes all the difference.

 

[spider_sense]

mashing out of a grab fast by rotating the control stick as fast as possible while mashing buttons. that rotation makes all the difference.

Word, thank you Papo.

 

[spider_sense]

Going to Dave's to do a quick vod about the uses of upsmash oos and c-stick jump buffering. Expect vids to be upload later tonight.

 

[ForTheLulz]

I got a three stock comeback on a sheik
feels good

 

[Linguini]

Yo Jason I been doing upsmash oos for years now. Especially underneath platforms for techase mindgaming and catching people coming down from above. Up smash is more useful against peach than most characters...wait for d smash on a platform and dash into u smash for instant raype.

Sibe-b is alright, nowhere near as good as falcon's tho. I usually stick to grabs and aerials in terms of techasing due to the lag being a ***** if you miss with side or down b.

Starting to lose hope in the falcon matchup from the last couple times I played gravy. Took matches but couldn't get enough momentum to close out sets. Falcon has grab connects almost as punishing as sheik's, and he can cover pretty much any di with an extended punish or regrab. Idk until a ganon proves me otherwise i'm starting to think the matchup is almost as bad as sheik. Going to try marth or sheik vs falcon next time to analyze its difficulty in respect to ganon's/

Prolly gonna start playing marth/sheik against sheik from now on; and definitely marth for fod.

Yo jason/dayve i'll be at vs tom if you guys wanna come tru!

 

[Coastward]

got bodied by macd x_x

most aggressive peach i've played, oddly. tryna get top 32 tomorrow, hopefully i wont let you guys down.

 

[-ACE-]

Macd always makes the first move.

 

[-ACE-]

tm vids on SunsetSmash YouTube channel.

tm good stuff vs beach, vs Abu... More patience! Pretend puff is twice as big as she is, really space the bairs, ftilts, and reverse uairs. You can also yolo an occasional usmash against her approach for a great trade. Try to not over commit as much, he's def beatable. Hbox is the only puff that isn't.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Yo Jason I been doing upsmash oos for years now. Especially underneath platforms for techase mindgaming and catching people coming down from above. Up smash is more useful against peach than most characters...wait for d smash on a platform and dash into u smash for instant raype.

Sibe-b is alright, nowhere near as good as falcon's tho. I usually stick to grabs and aerials in terms of techasing due to the lag being a ***** if you miss with side or down b.

Starting to lose hope in the falcon matchup from the last couple times I played gravy. Took matches but couldn't get enough momentum to close out sets. Falcon has grab connects almost as punishing as sheik's, and he can cover pretty much any di with an extended punish or regrab. Idk until a ganon proves me otherwise i'm starting to think the matchup is almost as bad as sheik. Going to try marth or sheik vs falcon next time to analyze its difficulty in respect to ganon's/

Prolly gonna start playing marth/sheik against sheik from now on; and definitely marth for fod.

Yo jason/dayve i'll be at vs tom if you guys wanna come tru!

I think side-b is actually much more useful for using it like how Kage uses it, in that he directly punishes aerials that are just out of his space with side-b when they whiff. I did this yesterday against some Foxes and I got a lot of stock conversions off of them not over-shooting their nair or something. I'm getting that timing down a lot better. I definitely find myself using dsmash more than side-b when trying to tech-chase simply because it has less landing lag. Though I am getting way more into the habit of side-bing after I dair. **** is mad fun.

I think much like Marth v Falcon, for Ganon v Falcon you not only have to DI his moves away or down and away most of hte time, but I think you also have to SDI his moves to make it even harder for him. I'm still not fully convinced that Falcon is as hard for Ganon as Sheik is, cause I feel like Ganon has a lot more useful tools to stuff Falcon's approach than deal with Sheik's defensiveness. I'll be playing $mike's Falcon a bunch here soon enough and I can probably come up with something there, but he's not Gravy so of course he's gonna do things differently. I'm definitely thinking about using Marth vs Falcon on the bigger stages like PS, FD, and DL, since I feel like Ganon can still do pretty well vs Falcon on FoD, YS, and BF.

I've been studying a lot of Marth v Sheik stuff and I've been getting some practice here and there and I honestly really like how much control I feel like I have when I'm playing Marth. I was never really a fan of Sheik dittos. Give Marth more of a try, you've used it once vs Clay, why not make him more legit?

got bodied by macd x_x

most aggressive peach i've played, oddly. tryna get top 32 tomorrow, hopefully i wont let you guys down.

I just think it's hilarious that you managed to only get kills on MacD with down-b LOL

 

[RedmanSSBM]

tm Some things you definitely need to do more vs Puff is you need to CC/ASDI down her moves a lot more, and you also need to know to shield her aerials and when she is in the air, and roll when she is on the ground. A lot of the utilts to rest were because he got you to stay in shield long enough to land the utilt. You should be able to see that puff is just about to land and roll out of the way before she can even utilt.

A lot of the small hits puff does will be nullified if you CC, and especially if you CC jab or CC down-angled ftilt. You pretty much have to be expecting that the Puff will attack you with bair or whatever when she is in the air, and to get away from the ground or the spot you were in when she is about to land. Rolling is typically safe, but you can also full hop above her and try to come down with a dair to beat her doing an immediate utilt or whatever move she whiffs. If you want to fair her, you really don't want to DJ to do it. a short hop fair or even a full hop fair to cover a lot of space is really good when you have the space to do it. If you're getting Puff to shield on the ground because of your fairs then you're doing something right. You want to bait puff into shielding on the ground because she thinks you're gonna aerial her and then you grab her instead.

 

[-ACE-]

Watched first set just now, tm played better than he did in LF imo. A little bit more smart shielding would help against her pokey bairs. I wonder if ps ftilt could hit if they don't space/drift back perfectly...

 

[Bwmat]

http://www.twitch.tv/vanstreetbattle/v/67811714?sr=a

23:33 doubles

2:46:30 got wrecked by mike li

2:31:32 I played a friendly against him earlier, the end should be a gfycat, 4 Uairs in a row across battlefield, last one being a Tipman

Bonus: 3:42:50 tfw you switch from fox to ganon for a cp and it was all a terrible mistake (2-0'd him in winners with fox)

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Jason, I could definitely see up smash being useful vs a peach turnip throw. Up smash to negate the turnip and then you probably have time to run away and bair if she tries coming in with a fair. I'll need to try that! I need all the tricks I can get vs peach.

Falcon mu is tough, probably not as bad as sheik though and definitely more doable on certain stages. Though I would say FD is basically unwinnable. Probably best to go marth for that one.

Divinokage good set vs shroomed! I just wish you went falcon game one, who knows what would have happened. That comeback game two was goddddddlike

 

[-ACE-]

Sucks kage lost to Nintendude. That matchup is pretty even at that level imo.

 

[spider_sense]

Yo Jason I been doing upsmash oos for years now. Especially underneath platforms for techase mindgaming and catching people coming down from above. Up smash is more useful against peach than most characters...wait for d smash on a platform and dash into u smash for instant raype.

Sibe-b is alright, nowhere near as good as falcon's tho. I usually stick to grabs and aerials in terms of techasing due to the lag being a ***** if you miss with side or down b.

Starting to lose hope in the falcon matchup from the last couple times I played gravy. Took matches but couldn't get enough momentum to close out sets. Falcon has grab connects almost as punishing as sheik's, and he can cover pretty much any di with an extended punish or regrab. Idk until a ganon proves me otherwise i'm starting to think the matchup is almost as bad as sheik. Going to try marth or sheik vs falcon next time to analyze its difficulty in respect to ganon's/

Prolly gonna start playing marth/sheik against sheik from now on; and definitely marth for fod.

Yo jason/dayve i'll be at vs tom if you guys wanna come tru!

LOL Didn't you tell me a few months ago that I would get wrecked for upsmashing oos as Ganon? But yeah man, play around with it tonight. Also, don't think I can make VS, cause of work johns but I'll probably be there next weekend cause I get the time off for memorial day. Sorry about the vods, I didn't realize I wouldn't have enough time to make them, but I'll still make one with Dave later on, but we did manage to test some things out.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Did anyone catch n0ne vs hugs? Really sick set. Hugo adapted super well too, but a bit too late. Super sick ganon play by n0ne.

 

[tm]

when is ganon reaction techchasing happening?

never

Never ;_;
But why does ganons never use side b for techchases like falcon? Especially vs fox who has short rolls.

it's alright, but if you miss you get shine upsmashed and might just die against a good fox


n0ne is a ****ing god

also I won another local this week, only like 15 people but I was able to beat my training partner MB-Smash (I was like 3:30 W:L against him in sets... rough stuff). I went falco in winners and ganon in losers, both 3-2.

here are vids from last week
me vs Butch G (peach) WQF
me vs Prince Abu (puff) WSF
me vs Beach (sheik, fox) LQF
me vs Shady (marth) LSF
me vs Prince Abu (puff) LF

must be doing something right if I'm getting a sheik main to CP with his fox 2ndary lol.

 

[Oldiz]

I played really well at a big local (62 entrants) and placed 5th. I beat a falco which is ranked 6th in my country, but lost to a peach and sheik. Sadly the upset wasn't stramed ;_;

 

[ForTheLulz]

god damn none moves so fast that his movement is just one gigantic mixup

holy **** Hugs was so scared that entire time lmao

 

[-ACE-]

He beat hugs in those 2 mm's on mike haze's channel, not surprised. Big ups to him beating m2k

 

[Swagic]

HugS was WAY too scared of that Ganon.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Starting to lose hope in the falcon matchup from the last couple times I played gravy. Took matches but couldn't get enough momentum to close out sets. Falcon has grab connects almost as punishing as sheik's, and he can cover pretty much any di with an extended punish or regrab. Idk until a ganon proves me otherwise i'm starting to think the matchup is almost as bad as sheik. Going to try marth or sheik vs falcon next time to analyze its difficulty in respect to ganon's

What kind of setups was Gravy using to cover all your DI? When I played him I found some ways to get out of certain combos depending on the percent and positioning. But he might have changed the way he punishes Ganon since I last saw him.

 

[Linguini]

lol jason I never said that...

Obviously there's some things ganon can do vs falcon but he just has too much guaranteed stuff to make the effort bearable.

Wanted I did as well, but most of the time d throwing at lower percents to regrab or techase depending on ganon's di is simple to not mess up. Once ganon gets to mid/high percents flacon can uthrow uair regrab or uair into knee/more uairs.

 

[tm]

got some gfys
combo
good smash DI
missing an l cancel then doing something crazy

 

[Divinokage]

Sucks kage lost to Nintendude. That matchup is pretty even at that level imo.

I ****ed up really bad first 2 stocks game 5, double wobble without doing any dmg..

 

[Thomas Tipman]

can someone link those n0ne hugs vids?

 

[spider_sense]

lol jason I never said that...

Obviously there's some things ganon can do vs falcon but he just has too much guaranteed stuff to make the effort bearable.

Wanted I did as well, but most of the time d throwing at lower percents to regrab or techase depending on ganon's di is simple to not mess up. Once ganon gets to mid/high percents flacon can uthrow uair regrab or uair into knee/more uairs.

lol this n!gga, but yeah don't worry Pasta. I can help you out with the C.Falc mu the next time I see you. Gravy has some good setups, but you can definitely take him; you just probably need a refresher.

 

[-ACE-]

can someone link those n0ne hugs vids?

For real, I can't find n0ne m2k either

 

[-ACE-]

lol this n!gga, but yeah don't worry Pasta. I can help you out with the C.Falc mu the next time I see you. Gravy has some good setups, but you can definitely take him; you just probably need a refresher.

Yeah the new age is upon us. It's either SDI everything or get death combo'd.

 

[Diosama]

Got absolutely ****ing rekt at goml. Literally surrounded by sheiks, although it didn't feel like I was playing the matchup, more like I was just playing vs my opponents. It was clear that they were unfamiliar with the matchup, but we're able to work around me and get grabs where as I failed to do so.

Very disappointed in myself. But I still had a great time at my first major. Meeting top players, hanging out with the montrealers, 2$ moneymatch vs Coastward , and watching n0ne rip through loser's with Canada on his back. Makes me wanna play Falcon.

I'll see what I can do in terms of Shine at the end of August.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

must be doing something right if I'm getting a sheik main to CP with his fox 2ndary lol.

LOOOOOOOL get bodied. I'll check the vids.

Prepare for the return of pseudo at sns2, bizz will be there as well. Hopefully we can get some good friendlies in.

 

[-ACE-]

You should mm bizz!