Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[RedmanSSBM]

I got bodied by plup(i'm convinced sheik/ganon in 2016 is impossible). He doesn't miss chaingrabs, and sheik can get out of ganon's cg much more easily.

I'm convinced the matchup is actually 70/30 in Sheik's favor. It's ridiculous. I'm learning Marth for the Sheik matchup and I find I have a lot more control.

 

[-ACE-]

WHAT... You can't go back to the same stage like that can you?? M2k would always go fd twice with Marth vs all Foxes....

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Yeah I felt like something was fishy when Clay went to FoD a second time even though he won on the first one. Pretty sure MDSR states that any stage you won on, you cannot counterpick back to unless agreed upon by the opponent.

 

[Divinokage]

I thought we knew already that Sheik at the top level is too ridiculous for Ganon but until then you can be usually fine vs high level Sheiks. That's why I'm never taking Ganon vs M2k again.

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah I felt like something was fishy when Clay went to FoD a second time even though he won on the first one. Pretty sure MDSR states that any stage you won on, you cannot counterpick back to unless agreed upon by the opponent.

Yeah, pretty sure that wasn't legit at all LOL.

 

[-ACE-]

LOL when me and saucy tho sat down to play porkchops and Plup, I looked at them and said "damn, I didn't know they started amateur bracket already!" They ****ing died laughing. Clays like "I ****ing love you Dave" and after they 2-0'd us I gave Justin a fist bump and said "yo... Sick Fox. You must have heard how good I am against sheik" never seen Plup laugh so hard lmao.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I'm convinced the matchup is actually 70/30 in Sheik's favor. It's ridiculous. I'm learning Marth for the Sheik matchup and I find I have a lot more control.

Prob 80-20. They say peach vs ics is 70-30 and that still occasionally gets won at high level... you don't see ganons beating shroomed / plup / m2k etc. But I suppose that's just semantics at that point. Matchup sucks balls.

 

[Coastward]

guys, cmon.

its definitely 120 - 0.

 

[-ACE-]

I feel like if you beat a sheik with Ganon, it basically means "I'm better than you. End of story" lol

 

[PseudoTurtle]

^ 100% agreed. Lol whenever a sheik johns about the matchup, I just give this bit of advice.

"I assume since you play sheik you know how to get grabs."
"yea..."
"Do that a lot."

 

[X WaNtEd X]

^ you're going to regret that

i treat sheik players like mushrooms. feed em **** and keep em in the dark.

 

[Diosama]

^ you're going to regret that

i treat sheik players like mushrooms. feed em **** and keep em in the dark.

Adding this to my sig

 

[Diosama]

goml is tomorrow my dudes. hbox is on the other side of my bracket, and I gotta play tranimal (sheik player from mtl) in round 2. Looks like a loser's bracket struggle for me. Should be smooth sailing for the warrior, so we'll have some ganon in top 96 fo sho

 

[F. Stein]

Get that tomahawk chaingrab to death down buddy, body that shiek.

 

[-ACE-]

Get that tomahawk chaingrab to death down buddy, body that shiek.

**** yeah. Space bair dangerously well, use different aerial baits, and pay attention to her habits:

Dash attack
Run in and shield
Run in and grab
Jab habits (ASDI grab)
Ftilt habits (asdi grab, proper DI... Pay attention to percent)
Aerial habits (free uair)

Shield needles! Percent means a lot!

 

[PseudoTurtle]

ESPECIALLY watch out for needles at 0%. Sheik's cg on you at 0% is not guaranteed. It's the one thing we have the slightest advantage on.

 

[-ACE-]

ESPECIALLY watch out for needles at 0%. Sheik's cg on you at 0% is not guaranteed. It's the one thing we have the slightest advantage on.

So true, 7% you tech, 8% you get regrabbed.

 

[Diosama]

It's an uphill battle, but when is the matchup ever not? I'll try not to disappoint you!

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Study tranimal. Definitely helps. And what you learn will be more valuable than any last minute practice you do.

If you haven't already, you aren't going to perfect the chaingrab in the next 24. So I'd figure out what percents you can get it consistently asap so you know what to go for. And even if you think you know, test yourself anyway just to be sure.

 

[Coastward]

got 9th at a weekly with a bunch of out of region talent, i lost to ****ing dunk today

improved on my neutral a ton, gotta work on my techchases now. i wish we had reaction techchases

when do you guys think i should be throwing out dash attack in neutral, as well as dair? i was experimenting with that stuff today and i didnt know exactly when i should just dair. im gonna try it out more in situations with like approaching falcons and foxes, but are there any solid situations for it?

 

[-ACE-]

True he won't learn the cg overnight, but remember you can TECHNICALLY not dash jc grab right cover DI behind up until 44% (those with 20XX can probably prove it's more), but if you don't grab at the right time, you can miss on certain frames due to her tumble animation. TM got me to start backdash +jc grabbing around 30 instead, and I like that, at least with my controllers that can backdash well. But if you're winging it, just turnaround grab until 44. GREAT chance you'll get the regrab. GL bro.

 

[-ACE-]

Coastward you play Ganon again?

Welcome back.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

got 9th at a weekly with a bunch of out of region talent, i lost to ****ing dunk today

improved on my neutral a ton, gotta work on my techchases now. i wish we had reaction techchases

when do you guys think i should be throwing out dash attack in neutral, as well as dair? i was experimenting with that stuff today and i didnt know exactly when i should just dair. im gonna try it out more in situations with like approaching falcons and foxes, but are there any solid situations for it?

3 weeks and 2 days it took ya to come back? Couldn't even last a month without the big man.

dash attack when you think the Fox or Falcon is dash dancing and won't expect you to suddenly try to get into his space. You have to be wise to when to use it in neutral, but it really helps you to get out of those tight corners, especially when you see an opening and the opponent isn't building a strong enough wall. Dair can be full hopped to cover them being on the ground, but you can also retreating dair to cover a Fox or falcon trying to come below you.

 

[Coastward]

-ACE- RedmanSSBM guys i dropped fox like, day 2 LMAO. **** everything other than ganon.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Ganon is the crack of melee. Once you get good enough with him you will be fiending for him whenever you try to quit lol

 

[Coastward]

i was legit fiending to play for weeeeeks. every time i come back from a break i feel like a better player. i just hope i dont get chaingrabbed out of bracket this weekend.

 

[Swagic]

I love the disjoint on the dair hitbox. It hits SO far behind and above. Great for attacking platforms.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

-ACE- RedmanSSBM guys i dropped fox like, day 2 LMAO. **** everything other than ganon.

HAHAHAHAHA I knew you couldn't stay away for more than a week.

 

[Swagic]

Having other characters is fun, being able to use multiple makes the game a LOT more interesting. But you just can't stay away from the King of Evil.

 

[F. Stein]

The mark of a true Ganon main, ditches a spacey and always comes back. lol

Anywho, Ian is coming up to a tournament up in the boonies where I live :U pretty stoked to subject everyone to Ganon rule. He's going to verse me up in dittos. I probably will have to play a ditto with the Ganon that lives 6 hours away on the other side of my state lol. I'm decent at the ditto chaingrab now but what should I do after it? not like the big man dies at 55%.

 

[-ACE-]

End the ditto cg with uair/bair and pressure immediately. You might put them on a platform, or high into the air if they survival DI so you can hit them again. I kinda like ftilt for DI behind too, I think it can surprise them if they're expecting an aerial.

 

[Oldiz]

Isn't straight up DI sheiks fastest option out of the cg? If so upsmash would cover that pretty solidly, and sets up for some juggles. And you really want to be below sheik.

 

[-ACE-]

Not sure if dthrow has enough stun around 60 when they jump out (unless you're perfect) to hit. Definitely works around 80ish tho. And I think the best way to get out on either side of the mu is to switch between slight forward and slight back, making it so the person chaingrabbing has trouble picking a direction.

 

[Oldiz]

It's faster than fsmash, should work.

 

[-ACE-]

It's faster than fsmash, should work.

Someone should test at 60%, after the sheik has entered a smash input during stun and buffered jump. But even if it worked, it wouldn't be as effective as it is vs peach/jiggs.

 

[F. Stein]

I have a freak talent for pivot upsmasj, does it have any uses?

 

[-ACE-]

I have a freak talent for pivot upsmasj, does it have any uses?

Lol yeah, after dthrow when they partial DI behind, and after dashing away and reading an approach. It's always good to trade the usmash c0ckblast with a spacey approach.

 

[Coastward]

when is ganon reaction techchasing happening?

 

[Oldiz]

Never ;_;
But why does ganons never use side b for techchases like falcon? Especially vs fox who has short rolls.

 

[-ACE-]

I use side b a lot lol