Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Renth]

streaming random NES/SNES games come chat with me about Ganon

www.twitch.tv/Lunacy_Renth

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@Bizzarro Flame also recently beat both PL Spirit and HuGs back to back at Kings of Cali 4. He's probably know as well.

 

[Duel]

Does anybody have any idea how to fight Samus? I lost to Esam and got super frustrated with her nair tactics. Ganon has no answer for it. I've tried every single aerial and it either trades or gets flat out beaten. Also, does anybody know the percent Ganon gets knocked out of his cc?

I feel your pain, I hate this matchup also. I always seem to get outspaced, and approaching is tricky.

 

[Duel]

Alright I haven't posted here much but I have some general Ganon questions if you guys could help me out.

1. When should I opt for a Full Jump Dair instead of a Short Hop Dair?
2. Is there a solid way to avoid getting shine spiked by Fox? I was thinking using up airs as a way to scare fox from approaching?

I am not a noob, but I have a long road ahead of me!

 

[Superspright]

1. FH Dair is good to beat some SH approaches, and grabs, and dash attacks [some of them]. I would use this sparingly. SH dair is good for everything else like shield-poking, or catching peach out of her dsmash (she squats too low when you FH).
2. If you're off stage, no. If you're on stage you can DI in and grab the ledge. Time it so you can immediately ledge-dash back on. Just get back to stage as fast as you can. You're not going to take over the world while hanging on a ledge.

 

[Duel]

1. FH Dair is good to beat some SH approaches, and grabs, and dash attacks [some of them]. I would use this sparingly. SH dair is good for everything else like shield-poking, or catching peach out of her dsmash (she squats too low when you FH).
2. If you're off stage, no. If you're on stage you can DI in and grab the ledge. Time it so you can immediately ledge-dash back on. Just get back to stage as fast as you can. You're not going to take over the world while hanging on a ledge.

Alright, thanks man, I have started to FH Dair into a 2nd jump Dair too often lately, i guess once I learned I could do it I liked catching locals with it off guard.

 

[Superspright]

No problem. Feel free to always ask questions here. Everyone likes to help.

 

[Coastward]

so peach and falco are definitely my worst MUs.

gotta work on dealing with shield pressure more and play more defensively since i keep forcing stupid approaches.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i'm drunk, but i just wanted to say that i love all of you guys. even you fellow ganondorf players that are lurking this thread right now and reading this post. i feel like ganondorf players have such a unique bond as players, although i can't really describe it. most mains of other characters aren't super tight specifically because of the character that they play, but there's a bond between us all that exists because we're smashers, and because we play this manly, awesome ****ing character.

i might love ganondorf too much, but every time i see someone play this character, it warms my heart; regardless of skill, because even someone that just started playing this character can get me excited. my ears perk up the instant i hear the name "ganondorf" on the ****ing character select screen. it's that bad guys.

so yeah. love all you *****s. even superspright, dude is knowledgable as **** and might as well be magus 2.0. if i could make a wish from a magic genie lamp, it'd be to have every single one of you attend the same tournament as me so we could all get to know each other and ****. how awesome would that be?

just quoting this so any of the new niggas joining can see it.

so peach and falco are definitely my worst MUs.

gotta work on dealing with shield pressure more and play more defensively since i keep forcing stupid approaches.

those are my two best matchups. we need to have a talk at bh4.

 

[Coastward]

just quoting this so any of the new niggas joining can see it.



those are my two best matchups. we need to have a talk at bh4.

YESSSSSS

i can give you life tips because my smash tips suck.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

YESSSSSS

i can give you life tips because my smash tips suck.

i'm not sure what life tips i'd need, but you're on.

 

[Duel]

Why do I seem to struggle L Canceling my Dairs consistently as opposed to every other move in the game?
That being said, is there any way to practice L canceling against shields while playing the computer?

 

[Superspright]

Because he moves his legs upwards and it changes his landing based on the timing, and the hitstun is massive. L-cancels have to be done 6 frames before you hit the ground. It doesn't carry over in hitstun otherwise it would be easier to do. You have to focus on the leg extension and when you're going to hit the ground. If you had an AR you could see his stage contact box moving around during dair.

 

[Duel]

Because he moves his legs upwards and it changes his landing based on the timing, and the hitstun is massive. L-cancels have to be done 6 frames before you hit the ground. It doesn't carry over in hitstun otherwise it would be easier to do. You have to focus on the leg extension and when you're going to hit the ground. If you had an AR you could see his stage contact box moving around during dair.

What do you mean it doesn't carry over in histun?

 

[Superspright]

Okay, if you were going to land in 6 frames but because you hit someone you are now in X amount of hitstun. So you're going to have to add the hitstun to the time in the air. If you are going to be in the air for 20 frames you know how it feels just before you hit the ground. But if you hit someone with a dair you will be stuck up there for about an extra 14 frames. If you tried to L-cancel as you were in hitstun you won't get the L-cancel. You have to wait until after hitstun to land it.

 

[Duel]

Okay, if you were going to land in 6 frames but because you hit someone you are now in X amount of hitstun. So you're going to have to add the hitstun to the time in the air. If you are going to be in the air for 20 frames you know how it feels just before you hit the ground. But if you hit someone with a dair you will be stuck up there for about an extra 14 frames. If you tried to L-cancel as you were in hitstun you won't get the L-cancel. You have to wait until after hitstun to land it.

Ah thanks man, this totally explains my problem, I am good at L Canceling everything else, but I am kind of terrible with Dair.

 

[Exdeath]

To be clear, when you hit someone and there is a delay in movement, it's called "Hitlag."

 

[Superspright]

I thought I was clear about that. I explained it two times.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

ganondorf dittos are the easiest matchup to get jv 5 stocks in. just confirmed this at a tournament today.

 

[MosthatedinNC]

I'd Johnny-5 anyone in the ganon ditter

 

[Coastward]

how do you guys stop yourselves from auto-piloting? i seem to always do it and stop myself when it's already too late to fix it. its really damaging my decision making since im not even thinking about what im gonna do next.

 

[Master Raven]

How often do you play people better than you? I only autopilot when I'm against bad players. Playing people who are better than you will force you to be more conscious of the matches.

 

[Renth]

ganondorf dittos are the easiest matchup to get jv 5 stocks in. just confirmed this at a tournament today.

Don't be a ****** like me and waveland all over the universe once your opponent is off stage. Grab the damn ledge, reverse up air, or whatever aerial you like and just hit him. This match up one where one HIT can change an entire match, It is by far the most frequent match where I see someone about to get 4 stocked be able to come back and win the match.

quoting my match up break down thread

 

[Coastward]

i usually play more better players than worse players. i just play, and then after a couple of minutes i realize im doing so many wrong things but its too late to come back from a deficit. i guess i gotta be super focused. i think i need to start playing with headphones again, i placed really well the last time i was listening to my groove tunes.

 

[-ACE-]

lol I do that too coast. I get caught up in the fun of the game and forget stuff. then I'm like, oh ****, maybe I should try to beat this guy. lmao

 

[Superspright]

ganondorf dittos are the easiest matchup to get jv 5 stocks in. just confirmed this at a tournament today.

Funny. I've done that too. So easy to get a JV5 against Ganondorf.

 

[Clocked]

Once you lose momentum in the mirror, for some reason it's just so hard to get it back. Probably because of the 3-4 hit gimps you can get sometimes.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

So I today I tried out some new things in friendlies.

• Run-up jab has a good use. I experimented with it a bit and found that jab into run-up jab is really quick and can put pressure on your opponent. Jab > run-up grab is pretty common, but with jab > run-up jab, you can deal damage if they decide not to shield. Also, if you're just running at your opponent, sometimes run-up jab works pretty well.
• Getting on platforms and shield-dropping through during a dash-dance or just really quickly to do a quick bair has helped me a lot. I hit some of my friends who are good multiple time by just dropping through the platform and bairing.
• Fake-out wavelands are the best.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Funny. I've done that too. So easy to get a JV5 against Ganondorf as Ganondorf.

fixed.

you better fuкn go to big house you fuк

• Getting on platforms and shield-dropping through during a dash-dance or just really quickly to do a quick bair has helped me a lot. I hit some of my friends who are good multiple time by just dropping through the platform and bairing.

**** like this is good vs falco imo

 

[tm]

Tied for 5th in singles, got 3rd in doubles at an MI tournament today, and got on stream a lot.

Doubles:
vs Duck + Ryejew
vs Ginger + Beach
vs Juggleguy + KJH

Singles:
vs Shibbypod (Doc)
vs Hellsing (Marth)
vs 1der ft. collusion (Falcon, Mario, Marth)
vs Beach (Sheik)

Rip me apart
if you just want to pick one, the sheik vid is probably best for pointing out mistakes of mine.

EDIT: Results thread
EDIT 2: hyperlinks

 

[Renth]

TM with all the vids. also don't be proud of collusion will break one down sooner or later cause I enjoy doing that

 

[MosthatedinNC]

I've only watched a few so far, but tm, did you take a map off both the teams that placed above you in doubles? Good going.

 

[tm]

I've only watched a few so far, but tm, did you take a map off both the teams that placed above you in doubles? Good going.

Yeah we went to game 3 (of 3) against the team that won, and went to game 5 against the team that got 2nd. (We're 1 for 3 sets lifetime against them [Juggleguy & KJH])

 

[Duel]

Tied for 5th in singles, got 3rd in doubles at an MI tournament today, and got on stream a lot.

Doubles:
vs Duck + Ryejew www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme/b/556254509?t=38m42s
vs Ginger + Beach www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme/b/556254509?t=1h21m5s
vs Juggleguy + KJH www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme/b/556254509?t=1h35m43s

Singles:
vs Shibbypod (Doc): http://www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme/b/556347199?t=1h2m55s
vs Hellsing (Marth): www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme/b/556347199?t=2h2m55s
vs 1der ft. collusion (Falcon, Mario, Marth) www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme/b/556347199?t=2h22m
vs Beach (Sheik) www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme/b/556347199?t=3h11m55s

Rip me apart
if you just want to pick one, the sheik vid is probably best for pointing out mistakes of mine.

EDIT: Results thread http://smashboards.com/threads/body-city-2-results-michigan-melee-summer-circuit-finale.364003/

Good job dude, you are giving me something to strive for. After you gave me a couple of tips on the falco matchup (Rolling away), I took 2 money matches from CAM's falco and became instantly stronger against him!

 

[MosthatedinNC]

I go to NEOH every 2-2.5 months. Let me know when you want some ganon dittos. I'll be there in october.

@ Duel , who is CAM's falco? We have a falco main in NC, Cam, who has been power ranked in our top 5 for years haha

 

[Coastward]

lab time for two weeks. gonna practice movement and stuff like shield drops and powershields, an hour a day for everyday.

gonna make sure im well prepared for big house.

 

[Duel]

I go to NEOH every 2-2.5 months. Let me know when you want some ganon dittos. I'll be there in october.

@ Duel , who is CAM's falco? We have a falco main in NC, Cam, who has been power ranked in our top 5 for years haha

Lol that's not him, this Cam is not ranked in Michigan, but he is considered the 2nd best player in the Central area of Michigan, and normally wrecks me.

 

[MosthatedinNC]

haha yeah I know it's not him, I was just curious.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@ tm For the Sheik matchup, you almost need to master that chain-grab. You can 0-death Sheik with a chain-grab as long as you don't mess up and just practice it on your own. I'm almost of thinking of taking to Sheik to Dreamland or even FD so that the CG is easier. Also, grab the edge and do the same up-air from grabbing the ledge like you did on Hellsing's Marth. That covers the trajectory that Sheik has to go and you can do it out of invincibility. You can get out of Sheik's chaingrab. Don't panic and don't try to tech roll on a platform cause that's easy for Sheik to follow up on. If you can jump out of Sheik's CG, then don't dair, cause the Sheik will see you got out of her CG, and she'll probably shield, you'll hit her shield and she'll start her CG again. Instead, do a tomahawk and grab her instead, turning the tables on her. Ganon's chain-grab on Sheik becomes completely reactable at like 30% and you don't need to start pivot jump-cancel grabbing Sheik in the CG until she's like at 50% or something, and if she DI's behind. Jump-canceled grabs are very important to keep your chain-grab going no matter what. She really can't get out of that ****, and once she gets to 100%, the next down-throw should be followed up with an F-smash that is guaranteed to hit even if she DI's behind you, and she will die off the top unless it's Dreamland (Making me think FD might be a better pick for this specific reason, hence the lower ceiling)

I cannot stress enough how important it is to get grabs on Sheik and CG her to death. You will scare the **** out of Sheik players when you start doing that.

Also finally my name got changed, woot.

 

[MosthatedinNC]

Definitely don't CP a map based off your experiences with the cg. And JC grabbing isn't the crucial component of chain grabbing, it's the easy part. You can never JC grab and still CG better than the majority of ganon mains.