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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

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Parks

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 21, 2016
Messages
37
could anybody give me the overview for ganon's gameplan. I find im feeling lost while playing
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,535
Location
The back country, GA
Parks said:
could anybody give me the overview for ganon's gameplan. I find im feeling lost while playing
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All matchups are different and require a different game plan.

One of the biggest things holding Ganons, and almost all melee players back, is that they get good at a certain matchup or two, find success with the way they play, and subconsciously use this same strategy on other matchups and get bodied. Being able to change the way you play from matchup to matchup is extremely important and makes adaptation less of a challenge.

What matchups you talking about?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
@Oldiz and I made it to 9th at a tournament this weekend
Brackets: http://smashnorge.challonge.com/SOPROmelee

Lost to Kriz (Marth) and Sealmore (IC) but both matches were really close.
I feel i should have won against Sealmore seeing I have one of Norways best IC mains as practice partners. Do you guys have any good advice when fighting Ice Climbers?

Pretty wack tourney. It was hosted at a museum so we played under an airplane.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
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The back country, GA
Lol had to play my training partner first set. Jason was supposed to be seeded differently but someone didn't add him to bracket in time. Usually I don't get the chance to play a Ganon God (always barely lose to a good player). Never played Zidane before, I started to adapt some but I just flubbed **** left and right which made it not as close as it could have been. He's def good vs Ganon.

Edit: beat a sheik 2-0 heavily and lost to Orp's fox 2-1.
 
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RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
1,744
Location
Greensboro, NC
I've been playing Melee for 3 years now to the day.

I still think Ganondorf is the coolest and most fun character, despite me not playing him anymore.

I've essentially "quit" Melee in that I'm not going to be practicing the game anymore, watching streams (unless it's a really big tournament or Ganondorf on stream), following people on Twitter, studying videos, or really even using Smashboards much anymore. I'll still want to play this game for fun in my city, but I'm not traveling for Melee anymore. I'll just be going to fests and tournaments in Charlotte.

I want to focus more on college and working towards my passion and career in Game Development. I might even be picking up speedrunning soon, but I'm gonna essentially be done with Melee for quite a while.

I'll probably pop my head in here every once in a while to day hi. You guys are pretty cool and I like that this is still one of the most active forums on the boards.

Keep punching faces, Ganons.
 
spider_sense

spider_sense

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
2,295
Location
Miami, FL (Ives Dairy)
It was fun getting bodied last night, didn't get alot of time to warm up. Haven't been playing all that well recently, but Dave and Saucy got in my ass royally. Hopefully I can get this second job so I can finally save up to travel. -_-
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,535
Location
The back country, GA
spider_sense said:
It was fun getting bodied last night, didn't get alot of time to warm up. Haven't been playing all that well recently, but Dave and Saucy got in my *** royally. Hopefully I can get this second job so I can finally save up to travel. -_-
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Lol it was a sloppy set for us, be real. 2nd job bro? Pm me
 
ForTheLulz

ForTheLulz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
104
Location
Maryland
-ACE- said:
All matchups are different and require a different game plan.

One of the biggest things holding Ganons, and almost all melee players back, is that they get good at a certain matchup or two, find success with the way they play, and subconsciously use this same strategy on other matchups and get bodied. Being able to change the way you play from matchup to matchup is extremely important and makes adaptation less of a challenge.

What matchups you talking about?
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This is why marth's hard at a high level, no?

I got netplay to ****ing work at 60fps on my potato. Somehow. Pixellated as ****. Played an ICs on ranked.
How do you safely do moves without getting grabbed (like I did)?
 
Swagic

Swagic

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
406
Location
Indianapolis or South Florida
Spacing, mostly. The problem is that they have a great wd-grab game, then the REALLY good ones will get a wobble going based off that. So you can either space yourself outside their wd range or immediately spot-dodge/roll as soon as an attack ends (which they will probably pick up on). Or you could separate them and kill Nana (stomp is REALLY good for that). Oh, also, jab stuffs them trying to wd in for an approach.

Wait... Does ftilt reach from that range?
 
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F. Stein

F. Stein

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
237
Location
Wyoming
lol @ Eikelmann

In the peach matchup, I recently got pushed from second to third because a peach played super defensive. Stayed in shield a lot, abused her fast shield grab, threw turnips and if she ever got knocked onto a platform she just spammed downsmash. I got locked out on game four in a best of five because I got stuck fighting on final destination. What exactly should I do or what should my gameplan be when a Peach goes defensive on a stage that favors her survivability like FD or dreamland?
 
Diosama

Diosama

Stand User
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
309
Location
Montreal, QC
Edgeguarding will be tough meaning it might just be better to go for the raw KO. Rack up that damage and toss her around til she dies. You'll outlast her and trading is always in your favor. Catch dem turnips, and better react to her dumbass downsmash.
 
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Linguini

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
4,698
Location
Weston, Florida
lol jaysun I feel your pain, I was also playing like ****, although i was testing out using more wavedash oos and shieldrops so I was getting punished for them a lot.

Big tourney this coming weekend so i'll be sure to be on point for that one...cheezus is now retired....guini back
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,535
Location
The back country, GA
Linguini said:
lol jaysun I feel your pain, I was also playing like ****, although i was testing out using more wavedash oos and shieldrops so I was getting punished for them a lot.

Big tourney this coming weekend so i'll be sure to be on point for that one...cheezus is now retired....guini back
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Yo I'll try to pimp your sticks before that tourney so you'll body extra hard.

BTW, I saw your use of wd oos and shield drops. Versus is a good place to practice that. Keep the normal guini style strong and slowly incorporate it. We should practice sometime soon.
 
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Linguini

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
4,698
Location
Weston, Florida
Don't worry about that dayve, just bought a new one. Jason you're coming to tgl right? lol even if we get bodied just us 3 ganon og's chillin is too much fun
 
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-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
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Location
The back country, GA
Linguini said:
Don't worry about that dayve, just bought a new one. Jason you're coming to tgl right? lol even if we get bodied just us 3 ganon og's chillin is too much fun
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Lol Damn. Well let me know if it sucks somehow, in which case I got you. And yeah the Ganon crew is unbeatable :denzel:
 
PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
2,162
Location
Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
Only marth I've really felt bodied by was colbol and he probably knows the ganon matchup better than I know the marth matchup... Add in that he's a much better player than me and it makes sense. I've played the moon, cactuar, swiftbass and the LEGENDARY crimson blur, and kept it even-ish or at the very least respectable... Though I beat blur lmao. Oh and sago has yet to take more than one career game vs me as marth and he took one from LORD CHEEZUS at an apex or something.

Only other marth to body me is dart and I've been closing the gap super hard recently. Kels's marth is also his only character that I've beaten in a serious setting, and that thing is no joke - it's the only character he can beat froot loop with.

TL;DR - marth isn't hard at high level, even kage and linguini made noticeable, however small, mistakes vs the moon. And I'm a fraud that only knows one matchup and I brag about it super hard.
 
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-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Swagic said:
Well, if you know the mu that well, how about a write up?
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Jump start on the basics.

You have to maintain the perfect distance from Marth most of the time in neutral, which is slightly less space than you should give puff. Utilize some dd and aerial baits. DD baits them because most people see Ganon's DD as trash, but it's not. You just can't treat it like it's Falcon's or marth's. Fully space your bair against his aerial approaches, Fair must be spaced even more. You can dd grab his approaching nair if you're maintaining proper space. If he likes approaching with early fair, you can murk him with side-b on reaction or, if you're closer to him, instant uair oos. WD oos is good for punishing shielded fsmash (as long as it's not a tipper) and great for resetting neutral, especially when he crosses you up (wd oos forward). Grabbing his ledgedash often works unless he's really keeping it INV. CC dtilt works on decently spaced late fair approach. CC jab/grab can also work, but won't work well against a well spaced nair approach. If he nairs close in you can yolo side-b as a read, as the reward is huge. Respect his dd dtilt if he's good at abusing it. When you're getting regrab techchase'd, you usually want to roll toward center stage or throw in tech in place if you're already there. Don't worry so much about getting regrabbed multiple times, stage control is important and rolling to ledge can get you bodied. They usually miss a regrab at some point if you're constantly switching it up. If you fail at spacing at any point in neutral, be ready to SDI away (recognize when you'll be hit and slam the stick). Edgeguard with Marth killer whenever possible, and when he lands onstage be able to ledgehop grab vs ledgehop turnaround grab (whatever the situation calls for). If you absolutely know he'll be landing onstage, you can stop ASDI'ing outward for auto-ledgegrab and switch to inward, so you never grab ledge and he lands right beside you (stomp him at ko%). Bair him at ledge if you think he won't/can't sweetspot at the moment, or else obviously Tipman spike. Fastfalling the Tipman spike makes the glorious hitbox at frame 16 more disjointed, and you must space it according to marth and not the ledge (don't let him up-b beside ledge, drift over and grab it). When you get grabs you can basically always uair, nair him onto a plat, or bair (DI behind). Dthrow fair starts working around 80%, and dthrow usmash works at a fairly wide range of percents (buffer dthrow to limit his DI options). From 0% you can get 2 regrabs (cg) if you don't pummel, and many more if he DI's behind. Nair is also good if you stomp him at super low% and he doesn't DI. Putting him on a plat is great. It's a fairly simple zoning matchup once you get used to it. Techchase him from the plat (aerial him offstage) and edgeguard him. It's that simple. Techchasing on the plat with grab is great also and is a good time to abuse NIL instant dash jc grab. Marth will land on the plat and tech at an obscene range of percents before you can uair him from dthrow (you'll whiff). He needs to be around 90ish-low90's if you want to aerial him before he can tech, and at least 109-110% for DL64 plats (remember you can NIL on these also when he's at mid%). Shieldpoke the top of his head with approaching bairs (but immediately drift away) or stomp so that your heel hits his foot. Maintain stage control! First person offstage=RIPeroni.
 
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-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Messages
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Swagic

Swagic

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Joined
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406
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Indianapolis or South Florida
I remember something about poorly spaced fair/nair approaches can be shield grabbed for Marth, too.

For the aerials, do you mean space them so you're barely not getting the phantom? Or just so it's only the farthest hitbox hitting?
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
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Messages
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Yeah you can def shieldgrab too situationally. Holding down and in while shielding a fair helps.

Space according to his approach, bair can beat anything except a perfectly spaced marth fair. Try to beat that ****. Spacing is super important.

Also you can roll after shielding early approaches that you can't uair oos or shieldgrab.
 
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