Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Bwmat]

Keeping track of percentages midgame is like impossible for me, except for really small ones at the start of their stock, all my concentration goes to hitting them /not getting hit, so I try to react to everything lol

How do you guys practice this (& how do you remember what to do at each percentage under pressure ). Seems really hard

On that note, I have to try and 'think' more when playing, my brain turns off most of the time (like, not even aware of the stock count sometimes and am surprised when I win/lose, I've rage quit with extra stocks tons of times unintentionally lmao)

 

[-ACE-]

B Bwmat yeah it can be difficult to add to your focus if you're not used to it, but it certainly helps. It's free info at your disposal. I think I made it a habit years ago practicing chaingrabbing and it slowly became second nature.

 

[Diosama]

Ace, bless you for that video. Never knew upthrow was so good, opened up a new way of thinking for me too. We really appreciate everything you do for these boards and Ganon's meta.

 

[F. Stein]

wow, Upthrow traps. Never thought about them. I mean i've tossed people onto platforms before but I never thought about things this indepth.

 

[Swagic]

Maybe fp? Someone test this in 20xx?

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Loved the video ACE. I've never really had a name for this before. I like the sound of uthrow trap.

I also want to point out that throwing out jabs out of dthrow at low percent instead of tech chasing is good sometimes because it builds guaranteed damage to get past cc percent, making your neutral much easier. And you can do things like low percent dthrow jab grab. People often buffer shield.

Anyway, I think it's good to constantly mix up whether you're putting on guaranteed damage or tech chasing off your low percent dthrows. It seems to make tech chases easier, since people aren't sure whether they will get jabbed into a 50/50 or tech chased.

Oh and when a ffer is around 45 where uthrow chaingrab doesn't work yet, you can still turnaround jab or (my personal favorite) turn around dsmash for that mutli option coverage if they don't tech on the platform. So it's well worth it to go for the uthrow trap even when it's not completely guaranteed cause you still get a good tech chase opportunity in the worst case scenario.

 

[-ACE-]

Thanks guys. I'm going to make more videos since y'all liked that one. Should've done this long ago. I know probably my biggest strength in smash is teaching/explaining stuff clearly and concisely, but nothing beats a visual example. I'll do a sequel to this video to cover what I missed most likely and start making shorter videos as I think of what to do next. Already have some ideas.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I think it would be cool if some of us did ganon round table discussion over Skype or something and recorded it.

But yeah, do more vods

 

[-ACE-]

Btw, my phone is being a twitch b|tch currently otherwise I would've watched the vids you guys posted ( F. Stein , X WaNtEd X ). Maybe it'll work later. Today I think I'm going to record some friendlies with porkchops before he leaves for another cfl tourney. I need work on my chaingrabbing of spacies, if you don't practice it constantly it's hard to maintain the necessary level of mental focus to do it consistently/punish optimally.

 

[tm]

Note: I really think you can't regrab fox at 135-140ish until like 170 something if they DI full behind (dthrow cg). I know this goes against the magus bible but that **** seems impossible to me.

I can do behind until ~155% (dash grab). I get them as high as possible (so like 155) then bair or uair. I've had them live from uair at like 135 before so after that I said **** it. And I think reacting with downB / regrab behind is too hard

Keeping track of percentages midgame is like impossible for me, except for really small ones at the start of their stock, all my concentration goes to hitting them /not getting hit, so I try to react to everything lol

How do you guys practice this (& how do you remember what to do at each percentage under pressure ). Seems really hard

On that note, I have to try and 'think' more when playing, my brain turns off most of the time (like, not even aware of the stock count sometimes and am surprised when I win/lose, I've rage quit with extra stocks tons of times unintentionally lmao)

Just gotta pay attention. Glance at it every once a while in neutral. Your and their % should STRONGLY affect what each of you are going for. Also try playing doubles without looking at % lol

 

[-ACE-]

tm I forgot about dash grab, thanks for the reminder. Such a habit to instant dash +jc grab.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

X WaNtEd X , you've definitely leveled up. Good follow ups and move placement is getting there. I think you still have a bit to work on in regards to your defensive game - patience is key with ganon and holding center stage is his single greatest strength in neutral. And when you're hit with drill, you should be attempting to SDI it every time, which you can do on reaction. Both sticks on reaction (even if you're crouching before) should get you out before he can shine you.

Dave, that video was super informative. I absolutely love the tech traps with up throw, and use it all the time. Off the top of your head, do you know the % on DL? I kind of just go by "feel" on most of the percents and it works ok, but raw numbers are best. Next vid, I vote for falcon. Bizz does this thing where he can almost 100% guarantee a follow up after grab. Chain grab until DI behind with dthrow, chain grab until DI away with up throw.

 

[-ACE-]

PseudoTurtle nah not sure for the DL plats, but the 55-85% is in regard to DI behind off uthrow only, ignoring platforms. That percent range works for Fox, Falco, and falcon. It's actually slightly lower than 55% but it's demanding. It's higher than 85% also, and even more (probably 2% more) if you have the higher port.

 

[F. Stein]

I think it would be cool if some of us did ganon round table discussion over Skype or something and recorded it.

But yeah, do more vods

That would be such a great idea.

 

[BraveGrunt]

abcdefghij

 

[Swagic]

It occa helps get the second hit of the usmash, sometimes it can snap you out of the way when someone is approaching. I've never intentionally used it, but the jank is nice for screwing with people trying to approach.

And I'm definitely down for a roundtable.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

It's viable and I know I've mentioned it before. It CAN get you the second hit of upsmash, though I wouldn't use it in neutral or for any gimmicky reasons like trapping peach / puff etc.

What it IS good for is comboing at low%. While we're on the topic of up throws, at low%, up throw under the plat, up smash as a tech chase. If you hit, that's over 40% and likely to lead into another aerial because the % is so low AND second hit upsmash has lower knockback than first hit.

Dave, so what you're saying is, hypothetically, on FD, that will get you a guaranteed regrab? Good to know... Once they start DI'ing away, easy, reactable tech chase.

 

[-ACE-]

Dave, so what you're saying is, hypothetically, on FD, that will get you a guaranteed regrab? Good to know... Once they start DI'ing away, easy, reactable tech chase.

Yeah that's right. If you're in someone's head getting reads you can cg falcon hard till almost 90% on fd.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Thanks pseudo. I was too drunk to actually be thinking about SDIing drill. But I'm trying to do it more consciously until I can make it habitual.

 

[-ACE-]

Thanks pseudo. I was too drunk to actually be thinking about SDIing drill. But I'm trying to do it more consciously until I can make it habitual.

It takes some conscious practice to implement it but I pretty much always have success when I hold c-away and quickly double tap away on the control stick.

 

[ForTheLulz]

I have opened my eyes to how much I suck.

Played some qualifier matches to determine rank on netplay ladder. Mostly played Silver and Gold people. Lost every single set. Bronze II Kappagasm lmao

 

[-ACE-]

I just discovered some sick sh|t vs falcon, grab punish-wise. A few days and I'll make a video (there will be other stuff too, and this time I won't wing it).

 

[-ACE-]

I have opened my eyes to how much I suck.

Played some qualifier matches to determine rank on netplay ladder. Mostly played Silver and Gold people. Lost every single set. Bronze II Kappagasm lmao

Lol I've never played netplay. Ganon is already lagged to begin with rofl. My entire punish game would be ruined with even a tiny bit more lag. Don't worry about it.

 

[spider_sense]

Preferred beers of the G-mains? -ACE- Omw now bro. Should be there in 20 min.

 

[-ACE-]

Preferred beers of the G-mains? -ACE- Omw now bro. Should be there in 20 min.

Anything light

Rofl I thought this was a pm. Guess that's why I said light lmao

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Preferred beers of the G-mains? -ACE- Omw now bro. Should be there in 20 min.

Drinking long trail green blvze ipa rn. I love vermont beers

My favorite beer is probably backseat burner. Mostly I go for ipas. I like white beers a lot too.

 

[-ACE-]

I was going to play porkchops today but evidently he needed his beauty sleep (big surprise).

This is from before Christmas but still great examples of what my recent video described.


http://youtu.be/zx76cahyNxY?t=7m05s
^^ this was all reaction, option select.

http://youtu.be/zx76cahyNxY?t=17m58s
^^ also option select via cg, then mid-air uair on reaction for his plat tech roll IN. Had he rolled away, ff dj uair to cover it.

http://youtu.be/zx76cahyNxY?t=19m40s
^^ prime example of uthrow trap and the coverage of plat techroll away

X WaNtEd X I'm a hop-head too! Favorites= Sculpin IPA by ballast point (san diego), two hearted ale by Bell's brewing (comstock/kalamazoo, MI, and Racer 5 by Bear Republic (forget where it's from). They're all hoppier than Spud Webb on a pogo stick and still smoother than silk covered in warm vaseline. Check em! I also like anything with citra hops.

Edit: LINKS ARE FIXED LOL

 

[Diosama]

Preferred beers of the G-mains? -ACE- Omw now bro. Should be there in 20 min.

Water's pretty good

 

[-ACE-]

I was going to play porkchops today but evidently he needed his beauty sleep (big surprise).

This is from before Christmas but still great examples of what my recent video described.


http://youtu.be/zx76cahyNxY?t=7m05s
^^ this was all reaction, option select.

http://youtu.be/zx76cahyNxY?t=17m58s
^^ also option select via cg, then mid-air uair on reaction for his plat tech roll IN. Had he rolled away, ff dj uair to cover it.

http://youtu.be/zx76cahyNxY?t=19m40s
^^ prime example of uthrow trap and the coverage of plat techroll away

X WaNtEd X I'm a hop-head too! Favorites= Sculpin IPA by ballast point (san diego), two hearted ale by Bell's brewing (comstock/khalamazu (sp? too lazy to look), MI, and Racer 5 by Bear Republic (forget where it's from). They're all hoppier than Spud Webb on a pogo stick and still smoother than silk covered in warm vaseline. Check em!

Edit: LINKS ARE FIXED LOL

PseudoTurtle the 3rd link in this post gives a pretty good idea as to what percent is necessary to trap them on DL. Looks like it might start around 68-69%, and although regrabs stop before 90% (against falco it might work all the way to 90 if you have the higher port, not sure), there's obviously always guaranteed follow-ups for DI behind off uthrow above that. Right now I'm brainstorming.... You could uair, but is nair possible?? If it is, and creates a platform techchase situation, that's good.

 

[Swagic]

PseudoTurtle the 3rd link in this post gives a pretty good idea as to what percent is necessary to trap them on DL. Looks like it might start around 68-69%, and although regrabs stop before 90% (against falco it might work all the way to 90 if you have the higher port, not sure), there's obviously always guaranteed follow-ups for DI behind off uthrow above that. Right now I'm brainstorming.... You could uair, but is nair possible?? If it is, and creates a platform techchase situation, that's good.

That sounds like it could work (first hit), but it might need to be fp... Could you do it earlier before he can tech the platform to force an earlier techchase situation? With how bad his recovery is, a uair at 45 to knock him offstage on a techchase could lead to an early gimp. Not certain it would work, though.

 

[-ACE-]

That sounds like it could work (first hit), but it might need to be fp... Could you do it earlier before he can tech the platform to force an earlier techchase situation? With how bad his recovery is, a uair at 45 to knock him offstage on a techchase could lead to an early gimp. Not certain it would work, though.

I was thinking pivot approaching nair when they DI uthrow behind at 90%, percent is probably too high though. Uair could create an edgeguard opportunity.... Probably best to just dthrow cg lol

Edit: I'm really going to have to grind some friendlies with the author or another good spacey main before this tourney today. I wish I could punish like I did in those links every time lol

 

[Swagic]

Given how bad our tools are for neutral and how good our edgeguard tools are... Maybe we should start looking at potential early edgeguard opportunities more. Stuff an approach once and turn it into an edgeguard. It would make us much scarier if we could do it.

 

[-ACE-]

Given how bad our tools are for neutral and how good our edgeguard tools are... Maybe we should start looking at potential early edgeguard opportunities more. Stuff an approach once and turn it into an edgeguard. It would make us much scarier if we could do it.

That's been my philosophy for a while now, but I allowed myself to go overboard and get overly aggressive at times. Currently working on that.

 

[Swagic]

That's always the temptation with such a powerful character. All his moves have pretty good startup times, but terrible ending lag. They're all designed as punishes it seems. And in most matches I've been watching, it seems like most losses come from overextending or forcing approaches when really all you need to do is wait. I know this has been discussed before, but feigning approaches seems like our best option. Cover a lot of space and look threatening. Empty sh wl, DD, platform games, all that. I think that's part of why shield dropping can benefit Ganon so much. Suddenly even being trapped on a platform is threatening. Be scary.

Sometimes I feel like our main theorycrafter...

 

[Coastward]

-ACE- that uthrow video was sick, i learned new things yay

 

[-ACE-]

Sometimes I feel like our main theorycrafter...

Yo you got competition with tipman, tm, and the ACE



And yeah shield dropping is super good.

 

[Swagic]

Nah, you three are actually capable of doing the things. I can't test them, I just throw them out there for other people to steal.

 

[-ACE-]

Got bopped by druggedfox on stream, sick fox lol

 

[-ACE-]

Well Jason almost 2-0'd gravy but barely lost. I couldn't stay away from the bar lol. Got a nasty 3 stock on hoodmelon's peach but lost 2-1, then lost 2-1 to the author's Falco. Go Ganon! Played one match with gravy too and got 2 stocks off him. Coulda done better, falcon matchup isn't that bad imo just hard to learn like falco.

 

[F. Stein]

I think i'm going to play shiek for a while, try to learn some different things and get off my salty tilt. Might feel good to have auto combos on people for once lol.