Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[tm]

Good luck tm and bizz! And schminkledorf? Guessing he's a Ganon lol.

tm how was the zgetto set? I saw the set count but that doesn't tell any stories lol

Did alright. He was very good about always fighting from an advantageous position, and mixed up neutral options very well.

tm got 49th, lost 2-1 to kira. wonder if it was close.

first 2 games were pretty close, but 3 wasn't. He adapted pretty hard

VERY impressed tm took a game off of kira. Dude has that sheik matchup DOWN. Bizz vs duck was hilarious, nice job bizzy. Was DJ vs bizz recorded? I'd like to compare bizz and kage vs dj to see what they did differently.

Kira is fox now

I can't wait to see tm vs kira I must have been watching the wrong stream

not streamed or recorded

Just saw he got a free win vs Cyrain via DQ before kira. That would've been hard.

Yeah I actually didn't do **** lol.

So... with light shield what options would that give you to people that are crossing you up or giving you pillar/shine/waveshine pressure? I'd be down to implement it right away... could it hypothtically make D-smash or Uair or Dair out of shield hit more often? It may at least disrupt the perfect spacing that certain matchups rely on against Ganon.

No it won't give you options to attack out of shield, but it will physically move you farther away from the opponents attacks (so you could maybe wavedash OoS when you would usually get stuffed, or roll away OoS more safely)

reverse uair for everything.

haha of course. Thanks for the kind words dude ^.^

---------------------

Pound was sick. Got to hang with some really cool people, and got a very generous number next to my name lol (fraudulent as fk)
See you guys at CEO / Smash Con / Big House

 

[F. Stein]

So I placed 5th at a local this sunday and had one singles match streamed. My edgeguarding was horrible and movement wasnt too crisp.
https://www.twitch.tv/smashnorge/v/58388935?t=02h43m37s

GJ Man! Looks like you had some nice movement, my favorite part was at 44:30 when Falco followed you off and you stuff him with reverse Uair.

Also, tight match TM. Great edgeguards to watch ^^ helpful for someone at my level at least.

 

[ForTheLulz]

Played my falco friend today and got consistently 2-3 stocked. Implementing new stuff like cc is hard, especially when you're trying to be ambiguous with it. I missed the crouch timing and got hit by the laser very much

also ACE getting that smashboards premium and having a blue name

 

[-ACE-]

also ACE getting that smashboards premium and having a blue name

Someone actually gave the premium membership to me. A smash rookie no one knows that wishes to remain anonymous. Strange but I'll take it I guess lol. Still haven't given this place a single cent.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I want premium so I can change my name to my actual tag. My current username was my tag back when I was a brawl player in 09 lol

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

I think I figured out how to pivot ftilt consistently

 

[-ACE-]

Fuukk it's so good seeing "Thomas Tipman" on these boards lol

 

[Mr.Cochise]

I still need to get an actual practice setup lol. I feel like I'm doing fine just going to events and smashfests to improve/practice(since i've done it for SSF2 Turbo and other fighting games) but having a real practice setup would help me improve probably in a drastic interval for melee.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

dawg, i'm doing so ****ing many of em

 

[-ACE-]

dawg, i'm doing so ****ing many of em

Post a video young flamer

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

Post a video young flamer

im alone wait til my homies get here

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qPihngQanY -ACE-

 

[Bwmat]

The rubber fell off of my control stick, ugh.

I don't really want to get a new one...

And it was one of the smash 4 black controllers which was less than a year old

 

[DCW]

Posted this to the R&D group, but I think some of you guys don't read that so I'm posting it here too:

Why do we all suck so much at edgeguarding spacies? It feels like most Ganon sets I watch these days (even among the best Ganons when they're playing high level spacies) involve missing the majority of edgeguards and then getting kills in neutral or from the spacie trying to get back from the ledge. That's definitely not ok.

So I wanted to start a discussion on edgeguarding spacies. What do you think needs to be done to further optimize edgeguards? Have we hit our character's peak ability to edgeguard spacies and need to just get better at making reads based on the meta/player? Is it possible for Ganon to effectively cover every option in situations he currently doesn't? Or perhaps LRA Start Fox? Whatever your opinion is, I'd like to hear it.

This doesn't answer your question, but it does give a way to practice edgeguarding spacies outside of real matches. Some people made something called MeleeAI that creates relistic recovery behavior for spacey CPUs. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AACJrsBwW5k.

I've got it on an SD card, just like 20XX. You can build your own ISO via the Smashboards thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/meleeai-a-better-ai-for-ssbm-update-now-works-for-console.427984/

or just download a pre-made ISO (made by someone in my region): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8s5RCaS-j9RX2hrQ3MzSlkzZ3M/view

It's pretty cool! Waaaaaay better than the built in AI. You could use it to test out different edgeguarding techniques / flowcharts, since the CPU will often tech and go for optimal sweet spots.

 

[Plunder]

Yo what is the current usage and thoughts on SH Bair AC (non FF)

I've been using it a ton when I'm at kill percent or need something safe to keep them at bay, also to poke with and to help keep stage. Hits pretty dang low before you AC on the ground (if you don't FF). Has such great priority and the 10-15 hitbox covers SH approaches and grounded approaches.

It seems really versatile and as we all know Bair ACs 3 frames after the strong 16 damage hitbox ends; meaning it's pretty safe on sheild, and can lead quickly to dash attack, Ftilt, grab, or turn jab on confirm as well as a few other things. If you SH FF AC Bair the hitbox doesn't stay out as low and it can miss shorter opponents unlike the non-FF variant. You'd still have to mix up up of course; WL back, empty hop, Bair earlier / FF it not get predictable AKA you can't always go for the optimal Bair hitbox ending 3 frames before landing.

 

[-ACE-]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qPihngQanY -ACE-

Getting there bro. Nice. You just flicking or using a different technique?

Plunder it's underused. I don't use it enough myself. Although, in many of the matchups I often play the fp bair + immediate ff AC is probably better. I think the non-ff AC is generally better vs floaties. But vs a small character, if you have to ff on reaction for an approach, it probably won't AC since you don't know how/when it'll hit their shield, if at all. The immediate ff AC from fp bair puts hitboxes both high and low.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd love to hear your thoughts on how to properly manipulate the hitbox.

View attachment 103016

If they go high while they have the capability of going to the ledge from a high position, what's your best bet to cover more options in your opinion? If you cover the ledge, they'll see it coming while you set up and just go high and then you're back to square one. This is basically what I struggle with when I edgeguard Fox and what I see many other players struggle with as well.

On the subject of the tm video, I thought it was sick. At the same time, that spacie was really easy to read. I found myself calling out most of his recoveries in my head as I watched the set. Not to discredit tm, I just didn't learn too much from his edgeguards I guess.

You don't have to go for the tipman spike when edgeguarding Fox and Falco though. I find that standing facing the opponent is just as usefull. you have the option to reaction jab, f-tilt, u-air (Hard hit).
You should keep in mind that U-air is Ganondorfs fastest aerial and comes out at frame 6. It is great for punishing Fire Fox angles on reaction.

 

[-ACE-]

You don't have to go for the tipman spike when edgeguarding Fox and Falco though. I find that standing facing the opponent is just as usefull. you have the option to reaction jab, f-tilt, u-air (Hard hit).
You should keep in mind that U-air is Ganondorfs fastest aerial and comes out at frame 4. It is great for punishing Fire Fox angles on reaction.

They can sweetspot though. One thing you can do is fake like you'll Tipman spike, then ff empty land into pivot jab/tilt. Baits them away from the sweetspot attempt once you've played some games and you and your opponent are adapting to each other.

The rubber fell off of my control stick, ugh.

I don't really want to get a new one...

And it was one of the smash 4 black controllers which was less than a year old

http://m.ebay.com/itm/2-GRAY-2-YELL...TRI-WING-SCREWDRIVER-/381345794891?nav=SEARCH

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I've been going for powershield ac bair lately. It's good for punishing crossups.

 

[Bwmat]

Shipping is more than $15 rip. Wonder if I could get that somewhere locally...

 

[-ACE-]

Shipping is more than $15 rip. Wonder if I could get that somewhere locally...

Search "GameCube controller replacement joystick" there are cheap auctions for one control stick and one c-stick with free shipping. Look around lol

Also that auction is I linked is less than $9 total not bad considering it comes with a tri-wing.

 

[Coastward]

so many new ganon posters jesus christ

 

[Swagic]

Guys guys guys- what if we played Ganon like Pikachu?
(I'm pondering picking up a pocket Pika)

 

[spider_sense]

I still need to get an actual practice setup lol. I feel like I'm doing fine just going to events and smashfests to improve/practice(since i've done it for SSF2 Turbo and other fighting games) but having a real practice setup would help me improve probably in a drastic interval for melee.

Trying to get some games in? I'm the second best Cody in SFL.

 

[spider_sense]

LOL, check out this set. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1TdrQAsMvA @Thomas Tipman

 

[Oldiz]

PM ganon still has horrible grab range smh...

 

[ForTheLulz]

Guys guys guys- what if we played Ganon like Pikachu?
(I'm pondering picking up a pocket Pika)

Nair does jack **** for approaching, and instant uair doesn't gimp, our recovery's 3 times worse.

We're also not fast like that yellow squirrely rat

 

[-ACE-]

LOL, check out this set. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1TdrQAsMvA @Thomas Tipman

haven't watched yet, but it reminds me of the only time I beat prof in tournament. He went mewtwo and got double 3 stocked LOL. Then later he ran into Jason in losers. Salt central lol

 

[Mr.Cochise]

Trying to get some games in? I'm the second best Cody in SFL.

Trying to toss rocks at me breh?
Unfortunately I retired from playing sf4 back in late 2014 after 4 years of playing it competitively(I have not touched the game since). I personally hate the game now in retrospect, but fighting cody is not fun with the characters I played.

 

[Swagic]

Nair does jack **** for approaching, and instant uair doesn't gimp, our recovery's 3 times worse.

We're also not fast like that yellow squirrely rat

Yeah, but the general philosophy of Pika is "run in and get a hit, then run away" and we can't exactly combo...

 

[Swagic]

Also, anybody got any advice for practicing tech chasing in 20xx?

 

[Deleted member]

Also, anybody got any advice for practicing tech chasing in 20xx?

D-air techchase or D-throw techchase?

If I want to practice D-throw techchasing I play against CPU Captain Falcon on FD/Dreamland in training mode, so they keep the random DI, but they won't try to kill you.

 

[Divinokage]

I just thought if you crouch near the ledge when Falco is on the ledge you can pretty much shut down all his options while CCing and getting ready to power shield a move because if he decides to laser you dont need to press the shield button, im thinking you have time to react to a move if he wants to throw out an aerial. If you get good at powershielding move, you can auto-kill a Falco that way I think. It's a little risky though if you are not good at reacting to his moves. I say that because most Falcos do not perfect waveland on the stage, all of them have a good chance to throw out a move.

 

[spider_sense]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAAZsWnFve0 <---Ganondorf vs Bowser death battle.

 

[Deleted member]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAAZsWnFve0 <---Ganondorf vs Bowser death battle.

Bowser didn't really have a chance against Ganon. It would be more fair with King Dedede vs Bowser.

 

[Oldiz]

I just thought if you crouch near the ledge when Falco is on the ledge you can pretty much shut down all his options while CCing and getting ready to power shield a move because if he decides to laser you dont need to press the shield button, im thinking you have time to react to a move if he wants to throw out an aerial. If you get good at powershielding move, you can auto-kill a Falco that way I think. It's a little risky though if you are not good at reacting to his moves. I say that because most Falcos do not perfect waveland on the stage, all of them have a good chance to throw out a move.

You need to be spaced so that he doesn't reach you initially from the ledge, human reaction time is about 10 frames at best.

 

[-ACE-]

I just thought if you crouch near the ledge when Falco is on the ledge you can pretty much shut down all his options while CCing and getting ready to power shield a move because if he decides to laser you dont need to press the shield button, im thinking you have time to react to a move if he wants to throw out an aerial. If you get good at powershielding move, you can auto-kill a Falco that way I think. It's a little risky though if you are not good at reacting to his moves. I say that because most Falcos do not perfect waveland on the stage, all of them have a good chance to throw out a move.

As long as there's no platform for them to ledgehop to or wL/edge cancel on. And yeah the ledgedash shine (porkchops would ledgedash shine when I'd troll him crouching by ledge lol). I've seen you retreat on the platform after hitting them offstage, then drop and approach ledge again. This little mini retreat often baits out ledgehop options for an easy cc against lasers. CC'ing ledgehop fair is possible but tough sometimes.

 

[spider_sense]

I just thought if you crouch near the ledge when Falco is on the ledge you can pretty much shut down all his options while CCing and getting ready to power shield a move because if he decides to laser you dont need to press the shield button, im thinking you have time to react to a move if he wants to throw out an aerial. If you get good at powershielding move, you can auto-kill a Falco that way I think. It's a little risky though if you are not good at reacting to his moves. I say that because most Falcos do not perfect waveland on the stage, all of them have a good chance to throw out a move.

It's definitely doable, it just depends on what the Falco chooses to do at the ledge. Kinda what Ace said, I think the only moves that can contest Ganon's CC would probably be dair and potentially his fair. I'd like to do more research with the fair, because I try to react to the first kick and immediately smash A and CC while other times it won't work and I'll get hit with shine or whatever. Power-shielding is a great option since you're able to react instantly oos. The only problem would be to know which move he throws out and guessing correctly with your shield. It could be a timing thing as well, but I don't have 20xx so I can't lab this out. Can someone test this out with Falco's fair with CC vs Power-shielding?

Trying to toss rocks at me breh?
Unfortunately I retired from playing sf4 back in late 2014 after 4 years of playing it competitively(I have not touched the game since). I personally hate the game now in retrospect, but fighting cody is not fun with the characters I played.

lol, I know it's not 3rd strike, but it has it's appeal. 50/50 mixups on wakeup (ST.HP with a CH into cr.p into ruffian fadc > ultra 1 = 650 dmg/700 stun or some bs like that lol) I'm trying to get into SSFV, but I got other priorities to deal with atm, but I'm looking to get a stick and maybe learn Karin or Cammy whenever I get the chance to sit down and actually play the game.

Bowser didn't really have a chance against Ganon. It would be more fair with King Dedede vs Bowser.

That's to be expected when the match-up is 70/30. All hail Ganondorf!

 

[Mr.Cochise]

lol, I know it's not 3rd strike, but it has it's appeal. 50/50 mixups on wakeup (ST.HP with a CH into cr.p into ruffian fadc > ultra 1 = 650 dmg/700 stun or some bs like that lol) I'm trying to get into SSFV, but I got other priorities to deal with atm, but I'm looking to get a stick and maybe learn Karin or Cammy whenever I get the chance to sit down and actually play the game.

I actually hate 3rd strike but I'll play sf4 over it any day.3rd strike is super overrated in my opinion. We had a super solid cody up in the Cleveland area he played cody exclusively from when he got put in Super until sf4 died .I mained bison but I also did use dee jay for certain matchups/players and I used hakan exclusively for the guile matchup(since bison and dee jay get pooped on by guile in 4.) I personally am more excited for KoF XIV at this current juncture.

 

[spider_sense]

I actually hate 3rd strike but I'll play sf4 over it any day.3rd strike is super overrated in my opinion. We had a super solid cody up in the Cleveland area he played cody exclusively from when he got put in Super until sf4 died .I mained bison but I also did use dee jay for certain matchups/players and I used hakan exclusively for the guile matchup(since bison and dee jay get pooped on by guile in 4.) I personally am more excited for KoF XIV at this current juncture.

I LOVE KOF! But you need the tech skill of God, Buddha and Busta Rymes to execute those ridiculous inputs.