Mr.Cochise
Smash Cadet
tm made it out of his pool in losers
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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
https://www.twitch.tv/wyosc/v/58262323
Minute 18 till finish is my best set ever against a spacey. I'm finally starting to get it among my misinputs. Getting my mindset calmer has helped so much, I'm just forcefully trying to rotate between what I see in Kage, Eikel and Bizz vids. But I at least bodied this fox this week, made 4th and was onyl narrowly pushed out by a chaingrabbing sheik.
Minute 18 till finish is my best set ever against a spacey. I'm finally starting to get it among my misinputs. Getting my mindset calmer has helped so much, I'm just forcefully trying to rotate between what I see in Kage, Eikel and Bizz vids. But I at least bodied this fox this week, made 4th and was onyl narrowly pushed out by a chaingrabbing sheik.
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Gotem City Vigilante
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Gotem City Vigilante
BIZZ WITH THE 2-0 over DUCK!!!
SNAPPIN NECKS AND CASHIN CHECKS
SNAPPIN NECKS AND CASHIN CHECKS
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
No schminkeldorf is a Marth/fox from CT.
Coastward
Smash Lord
tm got 49th, lost 2-1 to kira. wonder if it was close.
Coastward
Smash Lord
bizz lost to dj nintendo 
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Gotem City Vigilante
Damn. Get on kage's level with the cc game.bizz lost to dj nintendo
Good **** to both tm and bizz tho. Solid
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
VERY impressed tm took a game off of kira. Dude has that sheik matchup DOWN. Bizz vs duck was hilarious, nice job bizzy. Was DJ vs bizz recorded? I'd like to compare bizz and kage vs dj to see what they did differently.
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Gotem City Vigilante
I can't wait to see tm vs kira I must have been watching the wrong stream
ForTheLulz
Smash Apprentice
Duck tried for the NIL every time he was on the ledge but he didn't know we do that **** too so it was hopeless for him, DAYUM.
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
What a weird ass tournament. It was cool seeing Bizz beat Duck tho. I'm excited to see tm's vods too :D
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Gotem City Vigilante
Just saw he got a free win vs Cyrain via DQ before kira. That would've been hard.
Thomas Tipman
Smash Champion
damn missed all the good stream ****. oh well post vids any plz or links. wanna see bizz shenanigans, tm, n kage.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
I didnt go to Pound but I have newer vids.
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
I've been thinking about light shielding lately. Given that Ganon's oos options are limited, I think light shielding pressure is often a better defense against shield pressure. Get out of range and reset to neutral.
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Gotem City Vigilante
I've thought about it too but never explored it fully. You can shield drop out of light shield, which is cool.
So... with light shield what options would that give you to people that are crossing you up or giving you pillar/shine/waveshine pressure? I'd be down to implement it right away... could it hypothtically make D-smash or Uair or Dair out of shield hit more often? It may at least disrupt the perfect spacing that certain matchups rely on against Ganon.
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
Yeah I do that sometimes. People never expect shield drop out of light shield for some reason.
No you're not going to get aggressive punishes oos with it. It's more for getting you OUT of pressure. Too many Ganons hold shield hoping for a ****up where they can get a cheap shield grab or dair oos. While you should be looking for those openings, you should also be prepared to get yourself out of tight pressure.
Swagic
Smash Journeyman
It's actually REALLY useful for Falco pressure. His pressure is very horizontal on shield knockback, and a lightshield will usually get him to do a VERY unsafe dair/shine. Not certain you can get the wd in grab though. Maybe if you hit it on the shine, if he's autopiloting the pressure so you wd in during the dair and put the grab box out right as shine ends?
Other option- light shield, get pushed back, up-b oos
Other option- light shield, get pushed back, up-b oos
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Gotem City Vigilante
https://youtu.be/FcoP-S-WpY4
Don't be like me. Let falcon come to you more instead of blindly attacking. My DI was really off too.
Don't be like me. Let falcon come to you more instead of blindly attacking. My DI was really off too.
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
I haven't studied Ganon's oos options with light shield much. Because there's a lot more stun, I don't think you can do a lot of punishes out of it. I could be wrong, but that's just what it feels like from whenever I've tried doing things oos from a lightshield.
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
Not to say those weren't problems with your play, but I think you would've won the set, possibly 2-0ing that falcon if you didn't drop any edgeguards. Those seemed like the more decisive mistakes in that set to me.
Also I literally was triggered when you teched in place on the dthrow on that last stock. When you accidentally tech in place and get knee'd into death by Falcon it makes you want to vomit lol.
Swagic
Smash Journeyman
Question- CC vs shield, when is each better?
Also, how do you practice CC?
Also, how do you practice CC?
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
LOOOOOOOOL. Does anyone know who this guy is? He's about to get warlock punched IRL
Attachments
Yeah, when the shieldstun is over (depending on the level of lightshielding) your opponent should be in neutral getting ready for the next move and not in any kind of lag. I still think light shielding has its uses, especially on platforms when facing towards an edge
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Gotem City Vigilante
Lol so true. My Ganon kinda felt like trash that tourney tbh. After the falcon I beat a sheik player then barely lost to our resident Doc player in Doc dittos lmao. Never played that matchup before, just wanted to try it. I went in non-stop, got shield grabbed too many times, with better spacing I woulda had it. But seeing his face when I picked doc was worth it lol
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Found a Bizzaro match from Pound. It said I was the first viewer and comment :U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWlamvO475Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWlamvO475Q
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
Posted this to the R&D group, but I think some of you guys don't read that so I'm posting it here too:
Why do we all suck so much at edgeguarding spacies? It feels like most Ganon sets I watch these days (even among the best Ganons when they're playing high level spacies) involve missing the majority of edgeguards and then getting kills in neutral or from the spacie trying to get back from the ledge. That's definitely not ok.
So I wanted to start a discussion on edgeguarding spacies. What do you think needs to be done to further optimize edgeguards? Have we hit our character's peak ability to edgeguard spacies and need to just get better at making reads based on the meta/player? Is it possible for Ganon to effectively cover every option in situations he currently doesn't? Or perhaps LRA Start Fox? Whatever your opinion is, I'd like to hear it.
Why do we all suck so much at edgeguarding spacies? It feels like most Ganon sets I watch these days (even among the best Ganons when they're playing high level spacies) involve missing the majority of edgeguards and then getting kills in neutral or from the spacie trying to get back from the ledge. That's definitely not ok.
So I wanted to start a discussion on edgeguarding spacies. What do you think needs to be done to further optimize edgeguards? Have we hit our character's peak ability to edgeguard spacies and need to just get better at making reads based on the meta/player? Is it possible for Ganon to effectively cover every option in situations he currently doesn't? Or perhaps LRA Start Fox? Whatever your opinion is, I'd like to hear it.
Diosama
Stand User
Edgeguarding Falco is ez. Fox is the hard one.
I think we need a proper flowchart based on their position during recovery. I saw one for Marth a while ago, detailing what move to use where.
For the most part, I think upair should always be used for up b and low angle ftilt should always be used for side b. I also think most of us are too scared to go offstage and whack a flaming animal when they're just hovering in place. The last thing you want in this game is to be still.
I think we need a proper flowchart based on their position during recovery. I saw one for Marth a while ago, detailing what move to use where.
For the most part, I think upair should always be used for up b and low angle ftilt should always be used for side b. I also think most of us are too scared to go offstage and whack a flaming animal when they're just hovering in place. The last thing you want in this game is to be still.
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
Well the problem with low angle ftilt is that Falco can go under it. It's good for edgeguarding people unfamiliar with the matchup and scrubs, but good Falcos will not get hit by it.
So I placed 5th at a local this sunday and had one singles match streamed. My edgeguarding was horrible and movement wasnt too crisp.
https://www.twitch.tv/smashnorge/v/58388935?t=02h43m37s
https://www.twitch.tv/smashnorge/v/58388935?t=02h43m37s
Thomas Tipman
Smash Champion
edgeguarding spacies is the easiest thing ever period. reverse uair for everything. key is to make sure youre fast falling before you hit. reason being it disjoints your hitbox making you less likely to get a trade. other than that once spacies find your edge guarding has become strong they can learn that if they firefox toward the edge from above the stage and sweet spot itll force you to edge guard closer to the edge than normal to get a successful interception on the sweet spot. an other over looked edgeguard is back air. learn to space it cause it can cover some sweet spot.
if someoneone can post a pic of ganons uair at the final hitbox ill explain more about using fastfalling and aerial movement in general to manipulate the hitbox, why and when.
Thomas Tipman
Smash Champion
dude tm did amazing man. strong edgeguarding on spacies watch and learn he knows whtas up.
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
I'd love to hear your thoughts on how to properly manipulate the hitbox.
If they go high while they have the capability of going to the ledge from a high position, what's your best bet to cover more options in your opinion? If you cover the ledge, they'll see it coming while you set up and just go high and then you're back to square one. This is basically what I struggle with when I edgeguard Fox and what I see many other players struggle with as well.
On the subject of the tm video, I thought it was sick. At the same time, that spacie was really easy to read. I found myself calling out most of his recoveries in my head as I watched the set. Not to discredit tm, I just didn't learn too much from his edgeguards I guess.
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That isn't the final hitbox though.
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
You're right. I thought copying the gif would work, but didn't notice. Here's the full thing.
http://i.imgur.com/ngIHC.gif
http://i.imgur.com/ngIHC.gif
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Gotem City Vigilante
Frame 16 is the one. Pic in my edgeguarding thread.