Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Mr.Cochise]

I LOVE KOF! But you need the tech skill of God, Buddha and Busta Rymes to execute those ridiculous inputs.

I honestly feel KoF out of any of the traditional fighting games has the best mechanics and characters. The really good KoF games and their respective balance updates like 98UMFE and 2k2UM are godlike.

 

[spider_sense]

Btw, @Mr. Cochise you're the first sf player that actually hates 3rd strike. lol You seem like a fighting game connoisseur. lol, How do you feel about Mvc2, SNK (2001) and Alpha then?

 

[spider_sense]

I honestly feel KoF out of any of the traditional fighting games has the best mechanics and characters. The really good KoF games and their respective balance updates like 98UMFE and 2k2UM are godlike.

If you manage to R. Kelly Rugal on the hardest setting, then I'll know you're legit. lmao. I've played some 2k2, didn't really get into that hardcore cause I so intimidated by it as a kid. So, I switch over to MvC2; I wouldn't mind picking the game up nowadays for sure; its just the scene KOF scene here is pretty much non-existent. The GGXRD scene, and Tekken scene is barely hanging on by a thread. lmao

 

[Mr.Cochise]

Btw, @Mr. Cochise you're the first sf player that actually hates 3rd strike. lol You seem like a fighting game connoisseur. lol, How do you feel about Mvc2, SNK (2001) and Alpha then?

I've never screwed with the marvel games but I definitely enjoy watching them. CvS2 is one of my favorite fighting games of all time and sf Alpha 2 is a fun game( I think that may be because Nash is so much fun in that game.) Top 5 fighting games for me in no order are Super SF2 Turbo, CvS2, Melee, KoF2k2um and Vampire Savior. Tekken has slowly been dying across the US because a lot of the players(who are mainly series)veterans are getting old and doing IRL ****.To top it off Harada-san still does the really outdated release model that kills the hype in the US.

 

[Mr.Cochise]

On that note with Melee, I've been struggling much harder against aggressive fast fallers since I started playing ganon in comparison to when I mained Zelda. Which stems from Zelda being able to punish people approaching her. The issue with ganon is I'm a little too willing to stay in shield and I get opened up for it against aggressive fast-fallers. What are some things I can do to break this habit? I know I could wavedash OOS or buffer roll or know when I can jab.

 

[-ACE-]

Shielding really isn't so bad vs Falco, especially with shield DI. If he starts shine grabbing you'll need that shield DI. But it's great for killing the effectiveness of his approaches otherwise. Making the correct decisions oos vs him is tough but really frustrates him. It takes a lot of patience, focus, and awareness of his options based on the micro-spacing of the approach. Still blows my mind how CHEEZUS picks the correct option almost every time. He's by far still the best at it... spider_sense uses wd oos better tho.

 

[Mr.Cochise]

I'd say I'm most comfortable against falco, but Fox and Falcon are where I'm struggling the most. I do love hitting the dthrow chaingrab on spaces(on average right now I believe I get 4 reps against falco ) especially if the person doesn't know about the cg against spacies.

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah shielding can get you bodied vs Fox and even worse by falcon. You have to let them come to you, but be close enough to go in when you can force an advantageous situation or directly punish something.

 

[Mr.Cochise]

Shielding really isn't so bad vs Falco, especially with shield DI. If he starts shine grabbing you'll need that shield DI. But it's great for killing the effectiveness of his approaches otherwise. Making the correct decisions oos vs him is tough but really frustrates him. It takes a lot of patience, focus, and awareness of his options based on the micro-spacing of the approach. Still blows my mind how CHEEZUS picks the correct option almost every time. He's by far still the best at it... spider_sense uses wd oos better tho.

What are some of the ways I should shield DI against Falco(in regards to certain approaches)? I know shield DI is really sick! An old school zelda main up in Cleveland is really good with that stuff. I've seen him shield DI peaches dsmash so he would get sucked in on the 1st and second hit and then punish with bair/fair OOS as zelda.

 

[Mr.Cochise]

If Falco tried dair on my shield i would try to shield DI up and to the right ? Or is that purely dependent on where he dairs in my example?Or is my intuition incorrect altogether?

 

[-ACE-]

If he hits the top of your shield with an early aerial, fulljump dair oos.

For later aerials and aerials that hit below the top of your shield...

If he's crossing you up without fastfall, shield DI forward and roll forward or bair oos. If he's fastfalling he can utilt you before you can bair him.

If he's well spaced, like if he just barely hit you, shield DI backwards and shieldgrab after shine or roll away.

If he's landing like right at your feet, shield DI behind him to get out of shinegrab range and continue shielding in case of another shine and roll forward. Depending on the exact spacing you might want to roll away. Judgement call.

Whether to roll or not also depends on your position on stage. You don't want to roll to the ledge usually.

 

[spider_sense]

On that note with Melee, I've been struggling much harder against aggressive fast fallers since I started playing ganon in comparison to when I mained Zelda. Which stems from Zelda being able to punish people approaching her. The issue with ganon is I'm a little too willing to stay in shield and I get opened up for it against aggressive fast-fallers. What are some things I can do to break this habit? I know I could wavedash OOS or buffer roll or know when I can jab.

wd oos shield against Fox's that like to double shine on shield, you can try shield grabbing, using an aerial oos. I'm trying to find a way to incorporate wds oos with pivot so ideally, it'd be like this. wd oos > ac bair > pivot jab

 

[Mr.Cochise]

wd oos shield against Fox's that like to double shine on shield, you can try shield grabbing, using an aerial oos. I'm trying to find a way to incorporate wds oos with pivot so ideally, it'd be like this. wd oos > ac bair > pivot jab

Yeah i'm just looking for other options that aren't shield grab because I don't want to depend on that since I could get blown up super hard for it if my opponent reads that I'm going for it. Even though you could say that about a lot of things.

 

[Swagic]

Realizing I have a pathological avoidance of shield for some reason. I couldn't tell you why, but I never shield. If I'm going to, I spot dodge instead. It's not working well...

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah I forgot to say you can obviously wd oos forward when they cross you up hard, and wd oos back sometimes when Falco's approach is fully spaced. Have to shield the shine first tho

 

[Divinokage]

It's definitely doable, it just depends on what the Falco chooses to do at the ledge. Kinda what Ace said, I think the only moves that can contest Ganon's CC would probably be dair and potentially his fair. I'd like to do more research with the fair, because I try to react to the first kick and immediately smash A and CC while other times it won't work and I'll get hit with shine or whatever. Power-shielding is a great option since you're able to react instantly oos. The only problem would be to know which move he throws out and guessing correctly with your shield. It could be a timing thing as well, but I don't have 20xx so I can't lab this out. Can someone test this out with Falco's fair with CC vs Power-shielding

Ya but if you are already crouched the downair would take longer to reach Ganon which would allow you to PS -> Jab.

 

[spider_sense]

Ya but if you are already crouched the downair would take longer to reach Ganon which would allow you to PS -> Jab.

True, it seems super situational imo, I'd just be worried about a double shine afterwards if the dair managed to hit your shield. I'm still feeling that PS'd on Falco's aerials tho, seems like it'd be a very optimal way of just keep him pressured by the corner. Hell, I think if you PS the dair you could maybe get a free up-b oos? Since the initial startup have the best priority plus it comes out instantly, not only that; you still have your jump, so you can take risks to go out there and edge guard or just bait out his recovery and choose to go back to the stage and still be relatively safe. I'm just theory-crafting right now. lol

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I think that's a good idea if you have a read on how they dair from the ledge. But keep in mind the falco could mix up the timings of dair to throw your power shield game off.

I think the punish you do out of powershield will depend on how he lands. Jab would be great most of the time. But if it crosses you up, maybe dair, bair, or up-b?

Also I'm not sure on the part about how most falcos don't ledge dash. I play plenty that do. Maybe you could react to it out of crouch? Like dash back out of crouch and then try to powershield their utilt, shine, or whatever?

 

[tm]

If you are too close to the edge, he can dair you on the way up. If not, and he doesn't laser, you can probably powershield on reaction to his position, and the powershield will most likely push you out of shine range anyway. PS -> jab is extremely fast anyway, it probably can't be shined most of the time

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Do you think you powershield on reaction to any timing Falco dairs? He could ledge hop in different ways and throw dair out at different times to throw you off. That's what makes me skeptical of it being possible to have a reaction time fast enough to do it regardless of how he dairs. But I can see how one could get good at doing it with amplified reactions.

 

[F. Stein]

So, what are the rules for repping tags at smaller events? Since I'm the resident Ganon, if I wanna use tags for Kage, Bizz or Eikelmann are there like any traditions to follow or is it cool to do that?

 

[Divinokage]

I think that's a good idea if you have a read on how they dair from the ledge. But keep in mind the falco could mix up the timings of dair to throw your power shield game off.

I think the punish you do out of powershield will depend on how he lands. Jab would be great most of the time. But if it crosses you up, maybe dair, bair, or up-b?

Also I'm not sure on the part about how most falcos don't ledge dash. I play plenty that do. Maybe you could react to it out of crouch? Like dash back out of crouch and then try to powershield their utilt, shine, or whatever?

If they want to wait longer on the ledge then theyll likely get killed because they wont have invincibility at all anymore.

Anyways like Ace said you cant just tunnel vision on one option on the ledge. You have to do it with your movement so in that way you can see what the opponent likes to do from the ledge. Everyone has patterns.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

So since we're talking about PS falco dair, I remember bringing up PS dair --> dsmash like a filthy peach main. Everyone said it's completely situational and I agree, but I got it completely by accident (tried to dair, but PS'd into dsmash).

This happened like a month or so ago and I forgot to tell everyone lawl. Haven't attempted it since, so 100% success rate. But seriously, I think this might work for a high dair. SDI back while you powershield and then dsmash. Comes out about 7 frames slower than grab and with falco's jump squat being so slow and no falco player shining for ONLY one frame, I'm pretty sure this would work if done perfectly given the falco shines for 2 frames. Might even work if perfect because of it being able to drag falco out of the air before he performs an aerial.

I know it sounds silly, but can someone better than me test this out? Could be more jank ganon ****

 

[-ACE-]

With dsmash it's hardly worth testing as it'll never be guaranteed. If you could somehow light shield and force a missed L-cancel that'd be sick

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Twitch.TV/intrinsicgamingspell

 

[Divinokage]

So since we're talking about PS falco dair, I remember bringing up PS dair --> dsmash like a filthy peach main. Everyone said it's completely situational and I agree, but I got it completely by accident (tried to dair, but PS'd into dsmash).

This happened like a month or so ago and I forgot to tell everyone lawl. Haven't attempted it since, so 100% success rate. But seriously, I think this might work for a high dair. SDI back while you powershield and then dsmash. Comes out about 7 frames slower than grab and with falco's jump squat being so slow and no falco player shining for ONLY one frame, I'm pretty sure this would work if done perfectly given the falco shines for 2 frames. Might even work if perfect because of it being able to drag falco out of the air before he performs an aerial.

I know it sounds silly, but can someone better than me test this out? Could be more jank ganon ****

Downsmash is actually like 19 frames.. lol There's no way you can actually punish Falco's safe moves.

 

[Swagic]

Is there any reason to not NIL or at least waveland straight down every jump (provided you aren't wavelanding off the platform)?

 

[-ACE-]

Is there any reason to not NIL or at least waveland straight down every jump (provided you aren't wavelanding off the platform)?

NIL is always faster, waveland in place can be easier though sometimes.

 

[tm]

Do you think you powershield on reaction to any timing Falco dairs? He could ledge hop in different ways and throw dair out at different times to throw you off. That's what makes me skeptical of it being possible to have a reaction time fast enough to do it regardless of how he dairs. But I can see how one could get good at doing it with amplified reactions.

Well, not exactly, but assuming that you're far enough away that he can't rising dair, he'll have to jump pretty high first, and he can't mix up timing at all until he's at the peak of his jump (and can fastfall). 90%+ of players are going to start the dair before they're inside your character. Combine that with the fact that the powershield has a 4-frame window on physical attacks. If they started to mix it up with super late dair, you could mix it up with uair / ftilt before they even hit you. So yes and no

 

[Swagic]

NIL is always faster, waveland in place can be easier though sometimes.

I mean both of those as opposed to just landing regularly.

 

[tm]

I mean both of those as opposed to just landing regularly.

your question was extremely vague. NIL is only possible in certain situations. It's probably the best option if it gets you where you want to go. Waveland/dash down is useless if you're ending your jump on the ground. Somewhat useful if done to land on a platform while rising through it (but inferior to NIL when applicable). Other use is retaining position from a jump out of dash, in which case it's not comparable to NIL or landing from a jump.

 

[Diosama]

Can we up-tilt this non-believer?

 

[-ACE-]

What a clueless scrub lol. I will beat him using nothing but stomp.

 

[F. Stein]

That feeling when you get laughed into third place and they hand you a spacies t-shirt for the prize. fml, didn't touch the thing.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

That feeling when you get laughed into third place and they hand you a spacies t-shirt for the prize. fml, didn't touch the thing.

i'll give you my 3rd place $5 for it

 

[Bwmat]

Sucked and died again today (lost to some random fox in loser's (guriguri?) , sd'd last game last stock... Again), but I took a game off fatgoku with ganon in winners, so at least there's that.

 

[-ACE-]

That feeling when you get laughed into third place and they hand you a spacies t-shirt for the prize. fml, didn't touch the thing.

You should save it. Find a Ganon shirt, and next tourney you're on stream, wear the spacies shirt over the Ganon shirt, and rip it off Hulk Hogan style in front of the camera (might want to pre-cut the collar and bottom seam, and put a little hole in the center to start from). Then do your best Ganon laugh before you sit down to play. LOL

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Sucked and died again today (lost to some random fox in loser's (guriguri?) , sd'd last game last stock... Again), but I took a game off fatgoku with ganon in winners, so at least there's that.

nice, he's good. you're from oregon?

i went to a tournament as well. found out that i actually forgot how to play melee and just barely got 2nd place lmao i ****ing suck so much c0ck now :^)

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

BUT, i was on stream a ton and so there will be vids. good vids.

 

[-ACE-]

nice, he's good. you're from oregon?

i went to a tournament as well. found out that i actually forgot how to play melee and just barely got 2nd place lmao i ****ing suck so much c0ck now :^)

You probably pulled an ACE and cast patience to the wayside as attacking non-stop is much less boring than playing good lmao