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Just marth killer more like you said and it'll be a big improvement. Also, when you use side-b, try to punish fairs/nairs while he's sitill airborne so he can't CC/ASDI (early aerials are common in neutral). The timing window is tight but it's a great way to start a death combo off a very small mistake for marth.
So are you implying that you need to play a high level marth regularly in order to learn how to edgeguard Marth correctly? Well you're not totally wrong, but there are other ways to practice the motions by yourself without needing another high level Marth to practice against. You can even set a Marth cpu on a stage and just practice hitting your upairs and ledgehop upairs and whatnot. If you practice all of this stuff on your own, the next time you play vs a Marth, whether it be for practice or for tournament, you'll be a bit more ready for those situations. You don't even have to be hitting anything. You could just practice grabbing the ledge from a wavedash over and over and over again until you're comfortable or practice doing the ledge-drop upairs and recovering so that you get comfortable with doing them. Marth Killers are helpful too, and you can even practice those by yourself.
Well usually I go into 20XX in develop mode, get the victim to the right %, and just perform the frame perfect inputs for each character using Z to frame advance. In this case it was a bit more complicated because the amount falcon needs to drift is slightly different, so I simplified it. Since ganon is so big I made the assumption that regardless of DI, falcon will be able to reach ganon after the uthrow with some combination of jump / dash jump / turnaround dash jump + SH / FH + instant knee. Additionally, even when ganon can be out of stun before the knee hits, he might not have any way to avoid it. Airdodge doesn't give intangibility until frame 4, and you need to smash out of tumble or double jump out of tumble for at least 1 frame before you can input that. So even if you're out of stun for 4 frames before the knee 'hits', he still can't avoid it. Similarly, double jump simply does not move fast enough to avoid the knee if it is spaced well. So I took the maximum amount of frames that it would take falcon to dash + jump + knee, subtracted 4 from that, then tested at which %s falcon is actionable for that long before ganon gets out of hitstun. I might have been off by a frame due to counting mistakes, which would result in a few % higher.
Yes, that's a very good point. All of my testing was with falcon on P1 and ganon on P2. So this is best case lol. I always pick port 4 for this reason as well.
Doesn't that kinda dismiss who I am as a person? I'm a grinder, so I need to see the situation and practice that situation a lot before its something i can do consistently. Also The Moon prevented me going to the ledge pretty often, he didn't make it very obvious where he was going to. Whenever I played a good Marth, they make their recoveries pretty ambiguous. Anyways the Marth killer and the ledgedrop uair isnt something i can practice on my own because you literally have to press a couple of buttons to set it up, it's not hard to do but it's hard to read the proper edgeguard. You really think edgeguarding someone with Ganon is that easy? Why don't you show me how it's done then?
Alright then, Ill make note of it when i face Marths next time.
Fair is not always guaranteed. And if you pummel too long they will just mash out.
Gotta know how many pummels you can get. At this typical percent range 2 would most likely be given. Good mashers are no better than level 9's. If you're familiar with how many pummels you can get on a level 9, you'll know how many more you can get once you hear him start mashing.
Up b oos is fine. It's more of a gtfo me move, ironically, rather than a punish, so you won't get any good followups and will just end up resetting to neutral
I'd rather have a reset to neutral than try to deal with Marth's shield pressure.
Wavedash oos is still the best option as it provides you with many more options afterwards. Best case for up b would be a % lead and/or center stage control, so it definitely has uses.
