Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

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So ftilt comes out on frame 9-11 and you are in cool down animation until frame 29. So you're comitting to 29 frames, but you're on the ground so it's so much better. You say it's good at pressuring near the ledge. What about straight up just running at someone and throwing it out? Like dash forward, dash backward for 1 frame but pivot back to the direction you initially dashed into to pivot ftilt. And honestly the same with jab and dtilt as well. How useful would that actually be? Much safer and less comital than trying to control space with a fair/bair.
but if what you say is true about ftilt leaving you with 29 frames of vulnerability same goes for aerials in a sense since they have 30 frames lcancel lag if im not mistaken. give a take a few frames depending how long it takes you to land ganons ground game is technically more safe then his aerials for nuetral.
 

Divinokage

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PewPewU doesn't know how to play vs Ganondorf for shiiiiit. If PewPewU knew how good dtilt was against Ganon then it would be so much harder for Kage.
It almost sounds like you want me to lose or something. PewpewU definitely knows the matchup, he beat me before clean at one of the BH. In crews however, usually lower tiers have a greater chance to win and also I had the mental advantage through out most of the players playing. That's always my main weapon vs opponents. Even Mang0 admitted he didnt want to play vs me in crews and that Lucky would get mauled lol.

I'll elaborate. I can basically write a paragraph worth of mistakes for almost any Ganon video out there.

The Ganon metagame is STILL behind.

We need to be ground game Guru's. Pivots, crispy wd's oos, intelligent DD'ing, tipper hitboxes, FP SHFFL'd aerials (out of pivot), and CC/ASDI monsters (graaaaaabs).

It kills me to see kage's accidental bthrows/fthrows on sheik.... This is just asking for a loss.

Punish with a KO setup in mind whenever possible. Don't punch him to reset neutral, don't give yourself a pat on the back for getting a read, JUST GO HAM.

In neutral, literally EVERY MOVE YOUR OPPONENT MAKES, you should be reacting to. Reads aren't just for punishes and edgeguards, you have to read his zoning and zone yourself accordingly, and CONSTANTLY, otherwise you'll find yourself cornered due to Ganons speed and size. You must always try to stay a half step ahead in neutral, and promote situations where if an exchange were to take place, your opponent will be met by the most disjointed hitbox you have available at the moment (When you're up against top level spacing - other levels you can think about punishment and maybe choose a move that will lead to more follow-ups, but at top level winning the exchange means a lot more).

PUNISH SHEIK WITH GRAB. Pretend the matchup is Marth vs Fox on FD if you have to. I swear, a noob that can cg and perfect wL grab could beat sheiks that beat some of us. You guys already know grab is best so this may sound like "blah blah blah" but we aren't doing it enough. Grab when she runs up to you, run up to her and grab, aerial her shield then dash jc grab, etc. CC/ASDI grab like a MF. Start throwing in grabs in situations where you often don't. It's our only chance.

Edit: Kage also ledgehopped a little too much when edgeguarding sheik. Be selective with ledgehop and only use it when you have to. Regular stand-up is better. Just learn the timing so that you can edgehog AND punish landing lag, or else you risk giving sheik the ledge for free.
Ya those stuff happened before BH5 about throwing the character the wrong way and I was stubborn about switching controllers even when I knew that my controller has a few issues atm. I did learn shield dropping but my controller isnt good at doing it. But seriously im done using Ganon vs the highest Sheik level. The footsies are just too hard overall, to win that matchup you have to play out of your mind to get 3 wins. I also played A LOT vs Armada Fox and I got bodied every single game for hours.. even S2j probably beat Armada 1 game out of 30, Im not sure how to get that consistency level but damn... I think it's absolutely required to play the game 40h a week if you ever want to stand a chance at the top. If you cant do that then its not worth trying to become the best because these guys are doing exactly that. So ya I think it's time for a new controller and Ill think about probably either using Falcon or Falco vs Sheik all the time now.. expect maybe on FoD.

Edit: There's just too many Sheiks at the top level now, you need another character for sure if you want to stand a chance. Every top level player has an alt now.
 
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Эикельманн [РУС]

Ей 22. Она красивая, стройная леди.
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What happened that Eikel can't play?
Moved to Denver, working 60+ hours a week and I plan on going to school during this as well. My goal is have my degree in criminal justice and to have a substantial sum of money saved up in, at the latest, 4 years from now. By the time I'm 30, I want to be a full time police officer with the Denver PD, so Melee sadly has little place in my life at the moment. The trip to Europe that I did was meant to be like a final bout because I knew this would happen.

Maybe I can still make it out to EVO, though.
 
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Divinokage Divinokage Do you think a secondary is necessary for Fox at the highest levels?

Also how was the summit? I watched all your recorded matches. And I heard a lot of shade was being thrown at you behind the scenes. But obviously a lot goes down the viewer isn't aware of.

Moved to Denver, working 60+ hours a week and I plan on going to school during this as well. My goal is have my degree in criminal justice and to have a substantial sum of money saved up in, at the latest, 4 years from now. By the time I'm 30, I want to be a full time police officer with the Denver PD, so Melee sadly has little place in my life at the moment. The trip to Europe that I did was meant to be like a final bout because I knew this would happen.

Maybe I can still make it out to EVO, though.
I'm sorry to hear you're out of melee, cause you're definitely one of the ganons I'm always looking for videos of. But I'm glad you're pursuing your real goals. Good luck!

but if what you say is true about ftilt leaving you with 29 frames of vulnerability same goes for aerials in a sense since they have 30 frames lcancel lag if im not mistaken. give a take a few frames depending how long it takes you to land ganons ground game is technically more safe then his aerials for nuetral.
But with the aerials you are also vulnerable when you are jumping. The jumpsquat animation is long for ganon. And you might as well be in lag before you put a move out because you're such a big target in the air. Of course you can ac bair to get past the landing lag, but the startup is still a bigger problem.
 

PseudoTurtle

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It almost sounds like you want me to lose or something. PewpewU definitely knows the matchup, he beat me before clean at one of the BH.
Locke has a tendency to come off like he's not giving credit where it's due when critiquing other ganons. Don't take it personally, I'm sure he didn't want you to lose and he realizes what an accomplishment it is.

And for all those wondering, PewPewU and bizz played on an almost weekly basis at the foundry for nearly a year. Kage is probably a bit better at the matchup than bizz, but it's not like ppu was going in blind, like he is vs, say, axe.

In crews however, usually lower tiers have a greater chance to win and also I had the mental advantage through out most of the players playing. That's always my main weapon vs opponents. Even Mang0 admitted he didnt want to play vs me in crews and that Lucky would get mauled lol.
I agree that ganon can do well in crews, absolutely. He's really good as a counterpick to a certain player because you get to go to yoshi's, but once you win, your opponent (likely fox because 20XX) takes you to FD and it's GG. I think it's beyond stupid that crew battles don't allow character switches mid crew like they used to. The point of a crew battle is that you're playing against the collective group of players, not the players' characters. In a true test of who has more skill in melee, they should be allowed to use other characters if necessary.

/end rant
 
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Bwmat

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Personally I just use fox against good foxes these days, Ganon is too frustrating in that matchup.

Still go Ganon against most falcos though.

Shunsuke showed up at a weekly today, kind of a coincidence since I was watching a kage/Shunsuke set on the bus, and holy crap how did you beat his fox so bad, it's so good.

I won like 2 friendlies against his fox with ganon (out of like 10 games) but he destroyed me in bracket.

Also, I agree totally about being able to switch characters in crews, it should really work like a normal set, the new guy picks stage, the previous victor chooses character, then the new guy picks his character. Not having it that way just punishes anyone who doesn't play a top tier.
 
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Duel

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Moved to Denver, working 60+ hours a week and I plan on going to school during this as well. My goal is have my degree in criminal justice and to have a substantial sum of money saved up in, at the latest, 4 years from now. By the time I'm 30, I want to be a full time police officer with the Denver PD, so Melee sadly has little place in my life at the moment. The trip to Europe that I did was meant to be like a final bout because I knew this would happen.

Maybe I can still make it out to EVO, though.
You are making the right choice, good luck.
 

RedmanSSBM

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Yeah you're right PseudoTurtle PseudoTurtle , I tend to be hard on all the Ganons when it comes to critiquing because I always feel like there is some factor that could have been improved upon, from both sides, and that it is important to remember what your opponent was not doing that could have made the match harder. Knowledge is power.

Of course I wanted Kage to win, and I was pretty stocked to see him beat PewPewU in crews, and also **** all over Alex19 and even give S2J some trouble. I definitely have to give credit to how Good Kage is in crews, as that mindset and Warrior Spirit really come in handy.

I think there's just a certain style of play that I am looking for in Ganondorfs and so far from everything I have seen, the only person to come even close was L Linguini .
 

spider_sense

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Yeah you're right PseudoTurtle PseudoTurtle , I tend to be hard on all the Ganons when it comes to critiquing because I always feel like there is some factor that could have been improved upon, from both sides, and that it is important to remember what your opponent was not doing that could have made the match harder. Knowledge is power.

Of course I wanted Kage to win, and I was pretty stocked to see him beat PewPewU in crews, and also **** all over Alex19 and even give S2J some trouble. I definitely have to give credit to how Good Kage is in crews, as that mindset and Warrior Spirit really come in handy.

I think there's just a certain style of play that I am looking for in Ganondorfs and so far from everything I have seen, the only person to come even close was L Linguini .
I personally pride myself with having a similar style to Linguini's but I'm more of a hybrid mix of Him/Tipman. You'd be hard pressed to find a player with the same exact playstyle.
 
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I personally pride myself with having a similar style to Linguini's but I'm more of a hybrid mix of Him/Tipman. You'd be hard pressed to find a player with the same exact playstyle.
youre linguini and i if we were on a coke binge and had flawless technicals. IMO you are the son of synikal. you are both the most technically advanced players ive met.
 
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Also look: a tournament match of me!


Critique away!
I have a metric ****-ton of matchup experience, and that Peach doesn't even look as good as my friend's TBH. When I get home after work today I will give a critique. You did a lot of good stuff, but you made a lot of flubs. Namely fsmashes on platforms and stuff. We need to get rid of that kind of stuff in our gameplay. Ganondorf's margins are too tight for technical execution errors. When Fox/Falco/Peach does it it doesn't hurt as much because you probably aren't able to react to the flub. Whereas with Ganondorf a lot of his flubs are REACTABLE--even if they respect you as a player and won't **** with you in Y position if you just make a single mistake they can see it, recognize it, and punish it before you even get a chance to do anything. But yeah I'll write something more expository later.
 

Bwmat

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Yeah, unintentional smashes on platform are a disaster for Ganon, so punishable. And for some reason it's started to happen MORE to me lately fml
 
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RedmanSSBM

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RedmanSSBM RedmanSSBM the commentators acted like you had no chance, wtf? So biased
I said before that I really sucked vs Peach but neither of them mentioned that at all, so I do think there was bias. Plus Weilin is 9th on the PR, so that contributed a lot actually. It's probably cause they don't respect Ganon as a character since both of the commentators are Falcon mains. *shrug* It doesn't matter to me that much, all I care is that I actually did well against the second best Peach in our state, despite me being notoriously bad at that matchup.
 
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"Ganon's aerials are too slow to challenge turnips. But falcon can just Nair through them."

Lmao but their aerials are the same speed. Classic commentators that don't know a character but have too much pride to admit it.
 
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