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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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I've never experimented with boost grab, not once. Does anyone have the hitbox data on that? A buddy of mine back in Chicago (another ganon) said you can chain grab falco with up throw at ~90% or so with boost grab (highly doubt this is true with full DI away).

Even though it's probably false, nobody to my knowledge has messed with it as ganon. If you can actually grab a crouching sheik with boost grab, it could potentially hugely change that matchup.
 
YvngFlameHoe

YvngFlameHoe

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PseudoTurtle said:
I've never experimented with boost grab, not once. Does anyone have the hitbox data on that? A buddy of mine back in Chicago (another ganon) said you can chain grab falco with up throw at ~90% or so with boost grab (highly doubt this is true with full DI away).

Even though it's probably false, nobody to my knowledge has messed with it as ganon. If you can actually grab a crouching sheik with boost grab, it could potentially hugely change that matchup.
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4real somebody get on that. RedmanSSBM RedmanSSBM stop talking about neutral for 5 mins and give us the answers
 
B

Bwmat

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Boost grab is dash attack cancelled into grab, right? I don't see why it would have different properties from the other grabs (it's either standing grab or dashing grab, right? I'm not sure exactly how it works)
 
LoOshKiN

LoOshKiN

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I'm just speculating here so this could mean ****-all but I think boost grab gets you a dragged and elongated (maybe) dash grab-box. Ganon's grab range is decent but we take whatever we can get so I'm gonna mess with it next time I play. He does get decent momentum off his dash anyway.

I've basically been retired and playing Marth, but I found out recently that Ganon is really all I have and all I need. I just love fisting people. So much.
 
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RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

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YvngFlameHoe said:
4real somebody get on that. RedmanSSBM RedmanSSBM stop talking about neutral for 5 mins and give us the answers
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I've had situations where doing a dash grab in the middle of a chaingrab helped to get people who drifted slightly behind me, but those would usually be accidental. I'm sure at higher percents doing a dash-grab or boost grab would help a bit, but again, a boost grab is only going to move you forward a tiny bit, and it takes a little bit longer than a dash grab cause you have to dash attack first. Idk, I'll have to experiment with that next time I play a Sheik, cause there have been some weird times where I swear my JC grab should have gotten her slightly behind me but it didn't.

-ACE- said:
I don't think Ganon has much hope against crouching Marth/sheik (****ers be spamming dtilt too).
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This is why down angled ftilt is a godsend. You're ASDI'ing down while you do it so you can CC their dtilt and then hit them away with that kick. Underused move for keeping low characters out, unless Marth is just godly with the dtilt spacing.
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

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Yeah so idk if yall were watching the summit, but Kage just beat Pewpewu 4 stocks to 4 stocks in the draft crews. A lot of interesting things were going on there. Kage went for a lot of hard reads on platform tech chases instead of the usual reaction uair for instance.
 
RedmanSSBM

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PewPewU doesn't know how to play vs Ganondorf for shiiiiit. If PewPewU knew how good dtilt was against Ganon then it would be so much harder for Kage.
 
Max?

Max?

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Hasn't PPU bodied Kage in bracket before? 4 stocks to 4 stocks in a crew battle for fun doesn't mean too much imo
 
PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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Bodied is a bit of a stretch, but yes, he has beaten him. FYI Locke, dtilt is good vs ganon, but like anything else that marth has, it really only covers a few options. If you notice marth is strong with the dtilts, your aerial game is opened up.

Marth doesn't have a lot of moves that completely 100% stuff ganon (like sheik / fox), which is why the matchup is so good comparatively.
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

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PseudoTurtle said:
Bodied is a bit of a stretch, but yes, he has beaten him. FYI Locke, dtilt is good vs ganon, but like anything else that marth has, it really only covers a few options. If you notice marth is strong with the dtilts, your aerial game is opened up.

Marth doesn't have a lot of moves that completely 100% stuff ganon (like sheik / fox), which is why the matchup is so good comparatively.
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I think Pewpewu should have been using dtilt more to edgeguard Kage. He kept trying to challenge up-b with fsmash.

And yeah, I agree on your analysis on dtilt. In the neutral, it isn't really that op against Ganon. I think Marth's grabs are the scariest thing to deal with in that matchup.

Max? said:
Hasn't PPU bodied Kage in bracket before? 4 stocks to 4 stocks in a crew battle for fun doesn't mean too much imo
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There was $1500 on the line, or $375 per person. Pewpewu was trying to beat him and he was trying beat Pewpewu. It was only one game, though. So it'd be interesting to see how the set would go.
 
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X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

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Also Kage managed to 3 stock Alex19 and took two stocks off S2J in the other crew battle. In challenge matches, he lost to Zhu and S2J 2-0 and beat Westballz 2-1. Unfortunately, West was going DK.

There were two things I picked up from watching the summit today that struck me. First, Kage played really close to the ledge against Alex19 when he had him cornered. I'm not sure if he was just confident Alex19 wasn't going to punish him or if he was trying to bait him, but it seemed really risky to me. And I saw him do a bunch of usmash oos on S2J with some actual success. What do you guys think of that as an option?

I'm glad Kage is doing well in crews where you can say there's at least money on the line. Hopefully he'll get a respectable win or two in the actual tournament. I think it's pretty despicable how much hate he's getting for pretty much no good reason.
 
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-ACE-

-ACE-

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Max? said:
Hasn't PPU bodied Kage in bracket before? 4 stocks to 4 stocks in a crew battle for fun doesn't mean too much imo
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Opinions don't matter much either, so here's some info from the reference section.

No one is saying Kage > PPU.

PPU absolutely sucked at edgeguarding Ganon.

PPU didn't respect Ganon's hitboxes enough in neutral.

PPU doesn't have ANY Ganon experience that would properly prepare him for Kage.

Kage's marth game isn't perfect but he's one of the best at it. The amount of experience he has is insane.

Kage won some exchanges, and got some grabs. His zoning and DI were really on point though, which makes it hard for marth to abuse his range or combo Ganon.

What could have been said is that PPU being the better overall player doesn't mean too much. This game is about matchups, and what happens on a particular day.

X WaNtEd X X WaNtEd X Kage spent the most time cornering Alex19 closely when he was on his first stock and low%. Cornering them that closely IS good when you have CC/ASDI options. There isn't much they can do and a jab can mean KO setup. Cornering anyone is usually good.

1:46:01 vs s2j.... He didn't DI the fair like a noob! Instant uair immediately after fair L-cancel.... stock son!!
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

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So I'm not really arguing that cornering itself was a bad idea. But you can still corner fox without being right on top of him at the ledge. From there, he could invincible shine you and start a combo off that. Or you could get caught be drill from the ledge, which you can't cc.
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

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Yeah man but do you? Alex19 is pretty legit and Kage didn't give him any respect at the ledge at all...and it worked! I think it's definitely a player to player thing and you gotta just recognize as Ganon when you don't have to respect someone's options.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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Well it's a small gamble, but when you're going against someone that doesn't have a lot of Ganon experience, and you're at low% it's a quick way to force a situation where chances of getting a KO are high. Kage would've adapted very quickly had he got punished.
 
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-ACE-

-ACE-

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Locke Robster said:
PewPewU doesn't know how to play vs Ganondorf for shiiiiit. If PewPewU knew how good dtilt was against Ganon then it would be so much harder for Kage.
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Well this sort of got overlooked, but marth DD tipper dtilt is so ****ing good, just requires great spacing. Ganon can't do anything but hate himself for not having the read, no punish options. If it hits, it often causes a tech and marth is on your @$$ with frame advantage even if he can't techchase. Safe and effective pressure.
 
tm

tm

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PseudoTurtle said:
I've never experimented with boost grab, not once. Does anyone have the hitbox data on that? A buddy of mine back in Chicago (another ganon) said you can chain grab falco with up throw at ~90% or so with boost grab (highly doubt this is true with full DI away).

Even though it's probably false, nobody to my knowledge has messed with it as ganon. If you can actually grab a crouching sheik with boost grab, it could potentially hugely change that matchup.
Click to expand...
it's literally the same as dash grab except you can get a little extra slide. As far as chaingrabbing goes, it would only extend the % in situations where they escape by DI'ing so far behind that you can't move horizontally enough to catch them (which is well beyond the % where they could just jump out).
 
tm

tm

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Correction: for spacies, that percent is actually before the percent they can jump out. But a perfect boost grab would probably only get you like one extra grab, and you can guaranteed kill them before that with bair anyway.
 
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