Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Linguini]

Lol he told me he'd actually MM you for any amount.

haha alright i'll beat him next time just for you jason. After I finish school next week I'm going to have a lot of time to get back into the game.

lol last time played seibrik was more than 2 years ago dorsey.

 

[Manondorf]

Sup ganons. Can you guys share with my your thoughts on ganon and corneria?

 

[Sasha]

You never hear about 1233 anymore, but his Ganon is still too f***ing good http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvRi9i9-CM4&playnext_from=TL&videos=4z8s6DBpDHc&feature=sub

Meh. Fox was playing badly. "I know how to waveshine but I don't know how to play intelligently." It's always good to see Ganon **** Fox though.

 

[Divinokage]

Sup ganons. Can you guys share with my your thoughts on ganon and corneria?

Probably worst stage ever, but nothing to worry about since its always banned now.

 

[Manondorf]

Probably worst stage ever, but nothing to worry about since its always banned now.

lol. A friend told me it was still a counter-pick. No need to worry about it then I guess.

 

[-ACE-]

Nah, corneria's gone. Thank goodness.

 

[Dart!]

Probably worst stage ever, but nothing to worry about since its always banned now.

putting it mildly kage?

jesus christ could you imagine waveshine upsmash bs? ganon cannot escape combos nearly, so i'd imagine him dying about as easily as puff would on yoshis

 

[Bl@ckChris]

it's really a shocking thing when I look back at my vids and realize how horrible some of my decisions and spacing is. even in my most recent vids, now that i understand how to analyze vids and what to look for, and what this game SHOULD look like, I really wonder how on earth i was winning matches and even sets.

I'm now sorry for being up in this thread talking about how much better i've gotten, and trying to subject you all to watching and critiquing my vids. even though i've gotten better technically and somewhat spacing, just watching the first 30 seconds of one of my vids inspired me to make this post.

hopefully i'll be able to fix my mental habits so that i can actually be a good ganon. now that i see the gap in where i am, and where i can be, and where i need to be, i'm a little embarrassed. this ganon will rise, and hopefully by the time TO6 comes around, i'll really have a good understanding of the mental aspect, and be able to place well.

till then, i'll keep needing some of your help.

 

[Divinokage]

You won't be surpassing me! =)

But keep going, it's good! Link me vids!

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

I recently surpassed Kage. Get at me.

 

[Divinokage]

Lolll, not even in 1000 years!

 

[Daniel_the_Seraph]

I just wanna say.

This is the best thread on all of smashboards.

 

[Linguini]

^^^ This is probably true haha

Jason, I gave you what you wanted yesterday lol

 

[Divinokage]

^^^ This is probably true haha

Jason, I gave you what you wanted yesterday lol

Wow I didn't know you liked it, that way..

 

[spider_sense]

^^^ This is probably true haha

Jason, I gave you what you wanted yesterday lol

lol Yay, yeah man I saw and the vids are up.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=275540

 

[Bl@ckChris]

placed 5th in NCs tourney today. Of course pp, lozr, and many of nc notables weren't there, but it was a fairly solid 16 man bracket.

I still can't touch sheik. It's really becoming a problem.

 

[-ACE-]

placed 5th in NCs tourney today. Of course pp, lozr, and many of nc notables weren't there, but it was a fairly solid 16 man bracket.

I still can't touch sheik. It's really becoming a problem.

Good **** on placing 5th Chris. Sounds like your 2-2 tourney streak is over haha.

Are we going to see some vids of you vs Sheik? Who beat you?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

unfotunately, no vids.

I only went 3-2 though lol. Small karnfest.

I beat ocean, snap, and dr. Neo. Lost to dj rome and cam.

cam beat dj rome. I almost beat cam first round. But when I played dj's sheik, the whole first game, I got like 60% on him. This is why I get frustated. I'd be embarrassed to show vids even if they did exist.

but I'm starting to know why. I don't understand sheiks options, and since idk her options, I don't know how to counter them either. It's not a linear approach like almost every other matchup.

falcons nair vs ganon uair/cc jab/bair
marth fair/nair vs bair
fox nair/dash attack/shine vs ganon retreating uair/cc jab
peach turnip stuff vs catch turnip/uair/wizard foot if they hover too low
falco lasers vs ganon jab/wizard foot if they're shooting head height.

I know that list is simplified matchup stuff but I'm just saying that there's nothing like that for sheik. It's just everything sheik has vs spacing everything ganon has. But sheik controls my space it seems, so it becomes problematic.

/sheik rant

 

[Dorsey]

hmm I suck in sheik dittos chris, so I went ganon against DJ in tourney 2nd round at that one duke. I had him 4 stocks to 2 and he came back and 1 stocked me..... I felt like I could have had it but I CP'd him on cruise and it ended up gaying me in the long run.

good job man. My best guess for the main thing you should practice: work on getting grabs and capitalizing on them. By capitalizing I mean DJ should be sketchy about going within your grab range because it could result in death or a lot of damage... which should prevent him from getting more grabs.... in addition to not attacking his shield all the time.

My sheik is a lot different than his...... i don't go for grabs like he does c/c-ing all the time... so it's hard for me to give any advice even though i've went sheik against your ganon before.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

primary problem is that sheik can crouch out of ganons grab range. So she can approach ganon out of his grab range. Which means if she's wavedashing into my grab range and I even think about grabbing, I get dtilted and then either grabbed, or other tilt'd. I don't want to john or just propose ways of me getting owned, and I guess there's no easy answer, but...is there any answer?

 

[Ace55]

Last few pages of this thread make me feel like a true Ganon main

 

[-ACE-]

primary problem is that sheik can crouch out of ganons grab range. So she can approach ganon out of his grab range. Which means if she's wavedashing into my grab range and I even think about grabbing, I get dtilted and then either grabbed, or other tilt'd. I don't want to john or just propose ways of me getting owned, and I guess there's no easy answer, but...is there any answer?

If he's getting predictable (always dtilting after he fairs your shield) you should be able to throw him off by buffering a spot dodge or roll when he thinks you'll go for the grab. And always try to DI away if you think the dtilt may hit you, so that she actually has to work somewhat to get a decent combo on you. Try to play just as gay as the sheik is; don't always feel like you're the one that has to attack. Remember how important the ground game is, as Tipman said, and use your aerials (uair and bair mainly) to keep pressure on her.

A good bit of this matchup is centered around winning exchanges (moreso than most other matchups). If Ganon gets hit, the consequences can be devastating.. but basically the same thing goes for sheik. This is why moves like jab, uair, ftilt, and bair are so important; they are faster and have a good amount of range. AS TEMPTING AS IT CAN BE to go for that killer dair > grab, with sheik it's often better to stick to your safest options. I wish we could play some dude

 

[spider_sense]

If he's getting predictable (always dtilting after he fairs your shield) you should be able to throw him off by buffering a spot dodge or roll when he thinks you'll go for the grab. And always try to DI away if you think the dtilt may hit you, so that she actually has to work somewhat to get a decent combo on you. Try to play just as gay as the sheik is; don't always feel like you're the one that has to attack. Remember how important the ground game is, as Tipman said, and use your aerials (uair and bair mainly) to keep pressure on her.

A good bit of this matchup is centered around winning exchanges (moreso than most other matchups). If Ganon gets hit, the consequences can be devastating.. but basically the same thing goes for sheik. This is why moves like jab, uair, ftilt, and bair are so important; they are faster and have a good amount of range. AS TEMPTING AS IT CAN BE to go for that killer dair > grab, with sheik it's often better to stick to your safest options. I wish we could play some dude

lol Don't you two live in the same area?

 

[-ACE-]

lol Don't you two live in the same area?

Yeah, if you consider Tallahassee close to Key Largo.

I'm at the easternmost point of NC. Chris is over 6 hours west

 

[Linguini]

but I'm starting to know why. I don't understand sheiks options, and since idk her options, I don't know how to counter them either. It's not a linear approach like almost every other matchup.

falcons nair vs ganon uair/cc jab/bair
marth fair/nair vs bair
fox nair/dash attack/shine vs ganon retreating uair/cc jab
peach turnip stuff vs catch turnip/uair/wizard foot if they hover too low
falco lasers vs ganon jab/wizard foot if they're shooting head height.

I know that list is simplified matchup stuff but I'm just saying that there's nothing like that for sheik. It's just everything sheik has vs spacing everything ganon has. But sheik controls my space it seems, so it becomes problematic.

/sheik rant

When I was learning match ups thats how I looked at them too, like this-counters-this. As you learn them though, that way of playing will fade away naturally as it becomes instinct.

Seems like you just need some solid sheik practice, that's probably the only reason you feel clueless.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah that's probably all it is. NC just has one sheik really, and it's the one that's fourstocking me in tourney.

yeah ACE, I'm back in wilmington for the summer but I'm still not sure how far you still are from here.

 

[-ACE-]

yeah ACE, I'm back in wilmington for the summer but I'm still not sure how far you still are from here.

Haha, only 5 hours now! I'll be coming down there at some point this summer I'm pretty sure. If so I'll definitely get up with you.

 

[Daniel_the_Seraph]

Is there any time it's necessary/ useful to use Ganon's JC grab?

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

Is there any time it's necessary/ useful to use Ganon's JC grab?

Yes because it's faster than his dash grab. However, you get more forward and backward range from the dash grab

 

[Bl@ckChris]

chaingrabbing. i also use it whenever i'm running and want a grab...makes it a little less punishable, and comes out earlier, if i'm not mistaken.

any time i look for jab -> grab combos, i usually use JC grabs.

 

[spider_sense]

chaingrabbing. i also use it whenever i'm running and want a grab...makes it a little less punishable, and comes out earlier, if i'm not mistaken.

any time i look for jab -> grab combos, i usually use JC grabs.

Guini rarely jc grabs, but I do especially when it comes to chaingrabbing. Dunno if there's any benefit, but sometimes it's a good idea to just do a regular grab against someone who likes to to spot dodge jc grabs, since it is in fact laggy.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

is there any use for the frontside hitbox of bair?

it seems kind of useful for creating shieldstun if you're falling right on top of them, and since it cancels pretty fast, if they try to jump oos afterwards, you could get a jab in, unless they roll behind. but idk if there are better options, such as just landing and grabbing or using a falling uair instead

 

[-ACE-]

If you land jab or ftilt and they don't DI it away, you can usually get a jc grab off.

JC grabs are beyond useful. Many times, it's the only way you can get a grab off... and a grab can mean a stock...

I've never thought of using the frontside hitbox of the bair in hopes of a followup attack. Sounds really situational, but maybe I'm overlooking something. I've used it before as a KO move (from a dthrow usually), and sometimes as a last ditch effort to hit someone's shield before I land in front of them (when it's too late to fair and you need more shieldstun than uair).

 

[DippnDots]

When I was at SMYM earlier this year I accidentally did a sweet combo with the frontside hitbox on the bair. This fox was around 30 percent, popped him up wit a dair, hit him with my chest bair, he went off to the left of the stage and I was able to combo into a fair just by running the platform and falling off into it. It lined up perfectly. It totally shocked me too :O <3 yoshi's story

 

[LoOshKiN]

Now what I would really like to know is what percent D-throw -> Fair works on Sheik, and if it works, is it really a true link?

 

[spider_sense]

Now what I would really like to know is what percent D-throw -> Fair works on Sheik, and if it works, is it really a true link?

At high percents, I also know uthrow works fairly well too, but they have to be DIing away from you.

 

[Linguini]

At high percents, I also know uthrow works fairly well too, but they have to be DIing away from you.

gayson go to zp tonight!

 

[-ACE-]

Now what I would really like to know is what percent D-throw -> Fair works on Sheik, and if it works, is it really a true link?

It's a true combo above about 120% or so (Magus?). I use it quite often.

At high percents, I also know uthrow works fairly well too, but they have to be DIing away from you.

You mean DI behind? That does give you a free bair but I like to stick with dthrow for the most part unless I'm fthrow/bthrow'ing her offstage, or uthrowing her onto a platform.

 

[spider_sense]

It's a true combo above about 120% or so (Magus?). I use it quite often.



You mean DI behind? That does give you a free bair but I like to stick with dthrow for the most part unless I'm fthrow/bthrow'ing her offstage, or uthrowing her onto a platform.

Well yeah, that's the idea. I just think it's good at higher percents because they can potentially DI the bair. A fair just makes it harder for them to do anything about it.

 

[Ace55]

Any thoughts on shield drop upair? I'm trying to work it into my game and it seems extremely useful.