Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[-ACE-]

Lol @Moy that Falco feared you so much he ran off the level half the set.

FC return was pretty bada$s. Good set vs ORLY tm. Almost had him after being down 1 stock vs 4 and 36% lmfao. I believe that set showcased just how momentum-based that matchup can be.

dmac's Ganon needs to go in more vs falco. More pressure.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

That tm set was so hype. Just goes to show that you basically cannot miss edgeguards as Ganon. If tm had nailed like one or two more missed edgeguards I feel as if he would've won the set. Fortunately, that is an easier problem to fix and he was doing other **** that many players do not get down nearly as precisely.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Man I suck at pivot ftilt. Basically it requires you to change the way you pivot. And my method of releasing the control stick is so strongly stuck in my muscle memory now that I'm not sure I'll easily be able to unlearn that. So what I'm trying to do is train myself to pivot as if I would do a jab or jump out of it, but I'm trying to do the ftilt really fast from a neutral position. So far I can do it almost as fast as a legit pivot ftilt. Once I get a little faster the difference will be negligible. Wish there was an easier way of doing this **** >.<

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Just watched ORLY vs tm. Holy **** dude, tm got SO much better at the falcon matchup. Amazing last match, too. That second zero to death I would have given Chris so much **** for losing that if he had lol.

As it stands, trail is the only ganon so far to be positive vs ORLY.

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah that dsmash worked out despite the platform lol, crazy.

He could've respected the nair more in his general spacing since orly likes to approach so much. Also saw a few spammed ftilts get punished. But he definitely played well.

I need to step my cc jab/asdi jab game up on falcons nair. **** is so good

 

[Superspright]

Is it really that good? I just use ftilt, but I know it's a really hard commitment sometimes.

Man I suck at pivot ftilt. Basically it requires you to change the way you pivot. And my method of releasing the control stick is so strongly stuck in my muscle memory now that I'm not sure I'll easily be able to unlearn that. So what I'm trying to do is train myself to pivot as if I would do a jab or jump out of it, but I'm trying to do the ftilt really fast from a neutral position. So far I can do it almost as fast as a legit pivot ftilt. Once I get a little faster the difference will be negligible. Wish there was an easier way of doing this **** >.<

I hear it's mainly timing/pressure related. Beside Tipman I do not think anyone has learned it with any level of tournament level proficiency. Anyone who does will be very scary in the neutral. Ganondorf's ftilt is very good, but awfully predictably usually. Most use it out of waveland which is bad, or as another way to pressure an opponent after a fully spaced aerial or something.

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah considering it can work at any %...

 

[Coastward]

@ tm @ RedmanSSBM you guys have any good clips i can throw into this combo video?

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Well watch out for me cause I'm getting there. I'm going to be the most technical Ganon there ever was. Sure, I say this as I'm drunk off my ass. But ik it will happen. Idc how long it takes.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

@ Coastward here's one

 

[Coastward]

@ Coastward here's one

KREYGASM

 

[PseudoTurtle]

While I'm at it, @ tm , I'm gonna do a critique on your set. I wanna start by saying good ****, and you do better than I usually do vs Chris, especially considering I know his habits etc. I've only won one set vs him, and the other 20+ sets have been in his favor, the majority of which were... not as close as yours, to say the least.

To business.

I wanna talk mostly about your edge guards, but there's a few more things you could polish up. You did a lot of dash dance --> dash attack. Your evasion was good, but ORLY put his shield up every time. I actually thought you were gonna go for the grab, but gave it up each time.

Watch this clip. Awesome stomp, great dsmash. No follow up. If you were quick, you could have hit him with an up air, nair, or, my follow up of choice, a grab. It looked like your problem was that you thought the down smash had more lag than it actually does- you seemed to kind of wait after it connected, but there were a couple of frames worth of time where you had free reign.

Don't do this. Lol ORLY plays with trail all the time, who only recently learned how to waveland onto the ledge. Trail's bread and butter was tournament winner mixups. Even if Chris didn't have that experience, that, IMO, is a gimmick at best. I do it way too often too, but the best thing to do after an accidental tournament winner is to either fade back to the ledge or fade back with a fair and double jump to the edge.

Ok, now check this out. Sick up air, amazing fair read on ORLY's bad double jump, time for a gimp. He didn't DI the fair well, so you had a lot of time to select a move to edge guard with. You chose fair. The only problem with fair is that it only covers one option safely. ORLY had the option to:
a) pull back
b) recover and eventually land on stage

You covered land on stage and to cover the pull back here, you'd have to go off stage with the fair, which presents the obvious problem of going off stage.

My ideal move set here would have been to wavedash forward and downward angled ftilt. It would cover both options and set you up for another edge guard.

See what I mean?

That's all I got for now, but I can do your other matches etc. if you / anyone else here wants me to.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

@ Coastward here's one

ORLY's face when the Bair hits lmao

 

[Coastward]

when a ganon main reads your double jump

 

[-ACE-]

Lmfaooooooo

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@ Coastward What do you need exactly? Do you need video files, gfycats, youtube videos?

 

[Wreckarooni]

when a ganon main reads your double jump

He seems to be thinking "ORLY?!"




.

 

[Coastward]

@ Coastward What do you need exactly? Do you need video files, gfycats, youtube videos?

youtube would be preferred

 

[Renth]

It's been a long time since I've lost to Moltov. Well done to him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O06HmiXTIf4

 

[Divinokage]

It's been a long time since I've lost to Moltov. Well done to him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O06HmiXTIf4

Sheik huh.. the bane. It looked like you failed a few crucial L-cancels and that you arent reacting to sheiks moves fast enough. I dont think playing too patiently in that matchup works well.

 

[-ACE-]

I was randomly watching Ganon vids and

https://youtu.be/hHkHVBhhe-s

1:55 get bodied @spider_sense

https://youtu.be/wK6cNwsQ4qc
^^10 month old set, spidey vs porkchops. Good one

 

[Renth]

Sheik huh.. the bane. It looked like you failed a few crucial L-cancels and that you arent reacting to sheiks moves fast enough. I dont think playing too patiently in that matchup works well.

What! Playing patiently is crucial in that match up. That's like the first time I've lost in like 7 weeks

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah you definitely can't push hard in neutral unless conditions are right. Good zoning takes a certain degree of patience, gotta bait her into situations that actually give you decent options.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

That set was gold. I don't understand how spider sense got those uairs on pork chops when he was on the top platform. Whenever I just straight up go for falco like that they drop through dair me to beat uair. Should I jump more to the side to bait out the dair but hit them with bair or a more horizontal aerial? How do you guys handle top platform falco?

 

[tm]

Man I suck at pivot ftilt. Basically it requires you to change the way you pivot. And my method of releasing the control stick is so strongly stuck in my muscle memory now that I'm not sure I'll easily be able to unlearn that. So what I'm trying to do is train myself to pivot as if I would do a jab or jump out of it, but I'm trying to do the ftilt really fast from a neutral position. So far I can do it almost as fast as a legit pivot ftilt. Once I get a little faster the difference will be negligible. Wish there was an easier way of doing this **** >.<

Yeah ****'s hard. Dtilt / jab so much easier... I haven't really messed with Magus' method though.

Just watched ORLY vs tm. Holy **** dude, tm got SO much better at the falcon matchup. Amazing last match, too. That second zero to death I would have given Chris so much **** for losing that if he had lol.

As it stands, trail is the only ganon so far to be positive vs ORLY.

I still get wrecked by Juggleguy, probably because he just dash dances but ORLY actually goes in. Except the first half of the poke match when I was just chasing after him mostly. And I still missed a bunch of potential grab follow ups.

@ tm @ RedmanSSBM you guys have any good clips i can throw into this combo video?

Yeah the last minute of my set vs ORLY, lol. Probably don't have much else but I'll skim through my other vids when I have a minute and let you know if I see anything.

Watch this clip. Awesome stomp, great dsmash. No follow up. If you were quick, you could have hit him with an up air, nair, or, my follow up of choice, a grab. It looked like your problem was that you thought the down smash had more lag than it actually does- you seemed to kind of wait after it connected, but there were a couple of frames worth of time where you had free reign.

Don't do this. Lol ORLY plays with trail all the time, who only recently learned how to waveland onto the ledge. Trail's bread and butter was tournament winner mixups. Even if Chris didn't have that experience, that, IMO, is a gimmick at best. I do it way too often too, but the best thing to do after an accidental tournament winner is to either fade back to the ledge or fade back with a fair and double jump to the edge.

Yeah lol, I did that wayyy too many times. Most of them were accidental from not releasing the joystick fully before doing ledgehop. What's funny is that I'm so certain that he'll try to uair me ASAP every single time lol. Funny how much that cost me.

Ok, now check this out. Sick up air, amazing fair read on ORLY's bad double jump, time for a gimp. He didn't DI the fair well, so you had a lot of time to select a move to edge guard with. You chose fair. The only problem with fair is that it only covers one option safely. ORLY had the option to:
a) pull back
b) recover and eventually land on stage

You covered land on stage and to cover the pull back here, you'd have to go off stage with the fair, which presents the obvious problem of going off stage.

My ideal move set here would have been to wavedash forward and downward angled ftilt. It would cover both options and set you up for another edge guard.

See what I mean?

That's all I got for now, but I can do your other matches etc. if you / anyone else here wants me to.

Yeah... I actually wasn't aware that he could avoid that fair. Kind of a weird spacing, but that fair and a few bairs / reverse uairs he avoided with the same kind of upB spacing during the set. My falcon edgeguards need more work than I thought, but it would have been wreck city if I hadn't missed them. Thanks a lot for the critique dude.

 

[-ACE-]

I can't stand accidental ledgejumps.

 

[-ACE-]

That set was gold. I don't understand how spider sense got those uairs on pork chops when he was on the top platform. Whenever I just straight up go for falco like that they drop through dair me to beat uair. Should I jump more to the side to bait out the dair but hit them with bair or a more horizontal aerial? How do you guys handle top platform falco?

I'd have to watch again but sh uair shield pokes a lot of characters on the top plat of YS.

If he's at high%, up-b.
low/mid%, fully spaced aerial, delayed aerial, wL grab.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i think it's important to be patient vs sheik, but also that there are specific times during the match where it's crucial to be aggressive and to pressure sheik, and that it's impossible to win without taking advantage of those moments.

 

[Divinokage]

What! Playing patiently is crucial in that match up. That's like the first time I've lost in like 7 weeks

Well he seemed to be throwing out a lot of stuff but if you only take defensive options out of the pressure it doesnt give you much. It means that if Sheik is aggressive then you need to also be aggressive but if shes more patient then you also have to play patient footsies. It means basically the Sheik is the one that forces the rhythm of the fight.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@ Coastward Here's some youtube videos of me. I didn't find any combos to my liking but maybe you can pick out some moments that would be useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx0nglYZ0N0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08j7plGURLo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKCcLCfSN6o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ivlyJeImmw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nsb4XqQ1Co4

 

[Renth]

Well he seemed to be throwing out a lot of stuff but if you only take defensive options out of the pressure it doesnt give you much. It means that if Sheik is aggressive then you need to also be aggressive but if shes more patient then you also have to play patient footsies. It means basically the Sheik is the one that forces the rhythm of the fight.

Right and her approach game is trash. What works for you may not work for me and vice versa. I've always done well vs. sheiks playing a more defensive reactionary some-what ground game. That set was just him playing better, honestly.. Why would I ever SLOW get up from the ledge to punish a recovery on stage? There were a lot of things that were just off.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

Right and her approach game is trash. What works for you may not work for me and vice versa. I've always done well vs. sheiks playing a more defensive reactionary some-what ground game. That set was just him playing better, honestly.. Why would I ever SLOW get up from the ledge to punish a recovery on stage? There were a lot of things that were just off.

TALK TO EM RENTH

 

[Divinokage]

Right and her approach game is trash. What works for you may not work for me and vice versa. I've always done well vs. sheiks playing a more defensive reactionary some-what ground game. That set was just him playing better, honestly.. Why would I ever SLOW get up from the ledge to punish a recovery on stage? There were a lot of things that were just off.

Ugh, thats not even the point. Its about the outline of the matchup. Lets stay calm here.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

LETS GET WILD BRUH!!!

 

[Coastward]

latest footage of moi

 

[tm]

I'm confirmed in Blea's pool for EVO, with @ PseudoTurtle on the other side.
Wish me luck.

 

[-ACE-]

I don't know who to fear more, machineelf or phazermuffin.

 

[Wreckarooni]

latest footage of moi

7:07

Counting with Ganondorf

Ready....GO!

1, 2, 3, dead.

Ah AH AH AH

 

[-ACE-]

Ledgehop jab is so ****ing sick. Just got porkchops (mid%) with invincible ledgehop jab, no tech, dair pop-up, bair offstage, tippy spike edgeguard.

His pressure is very solid at the ledge. They only have to get too close once though. Love that jab.

Also got a quad stomp and almost ended with WF lol, missed.

Maybe 5 gfycat worthy ko's in 90 mins of play, 3 of them 0-death. Some sick cg's too. I also got 4-stocked twice, lol.

I've started landing cc jabs on lhdl more often, and if nothing else I get a free dair at the top of falcos dj loool. Not much improvement on my cc grab game... Constantly working on zoning. You have to constantly set yourself up for success vs falco or you fail.

 

[Renth]

Ugh, thats not even the point. Its about the outline of the matchup. Lets stay calm here.

I wonder if it's the way I word things that come off angry or defensive to people. I didn't think I said anything out of my calm zone