Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[RedmanSSBM]

Yeah not I don't think it's worth it. I still like playing sober just fine. It did help me see things differently though, which is helpful

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah not I don't think it's worth it. I still like playing sober just fine. It did help me see things differently though, which is helpful

Sometimes it'll calm you down and focusing on 1-2 things gets easier (not for extreme multi-tasking). Certain techs and even general spacing can get easier imo.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Sometimes it'll calm you down and focusing on 1-2 things easier (not for extreme multi-tasking). Certain techs and even general spacing can get easier imo.

I felt like my general reaction time and reads got better. I felt like I was getting some pretty ridiculous reads.

 

[-ACE-]

I felt like my general reaction time and reads got better. I felt like I was getting some pretty ridiculous reads.

If you have the tendency to overanalyze situations, it can sometimes allow you to see things more simplisticly which can lead to making sound decisions more quickly and more easily. It effects everyone differently though and like kage said it can be a double-edged sword.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

If you have the tendency to overanalyze situations, it can sometimes allow you to see things more simplisticly which can lead to making sound decisions more quickly and more easily. It effects everyone differently though and like kage said it can be a double-edged sword.

I'll have to look at the footage to see how much it affected my play.

 

[TheMentaculus]

My brother 100% plays better when high. There is no arguing it among our circle of friends. During one session while extremely high and fairly drunk, he was kicking all of our collective asses (like 3 and 4 stocks no one could take a game) and he claimed he was so focused and in the game he could actually see the frames. That night still lives in legend among those present to witness it. It was seriously 4 or 5 hours of him not losing a match. Of course we were fairly nooby at the time.

 

[-ACE-]

I find it much easier if you release the control stick back to neutral following the dash that's before you're going to do the pivot, and then at a moderate speed press towards the direction you want to f-tilt in and press A right after the stick is like 3/4 of the way there. If you dash attack in the direction you were already going then you pressed A too early, dash attack in the direction you wanted to f-tilt in you pressed it too late, and if you f-smash you moved the stick too quickly/didn't let it go to neutral before pivoting.

Releasing to neutral before doing the pivot actually makes it impossible to f-smash as long as there's a frame read between neutral and the dash threshold (even if you press A when it's fully to the side), which is pretty easy to do unless you press it rather quickly. The game registers a f-smash much easier if you instead go from the area of the control stick you used for dashing in the original direction straight into the pivot.

You could also flick and release the opposite direction to pivot into a neutral stance out of the dash and then go to do the f-tilt (or whatever else you want really), but the extra time it takes to move the stick back again to do the tilt makes it slow and not really useful this way imo.

I do the flick release to do pivot jabs though since obviously there's no delay for repositioning the stick after the pivot since it's already at neutral from doing the flick to turn around. I especially like doing this into gentlemans with Falcon, lol. Since I can easily get these pretty much every time and as an added bonus I sometimes get f-tilts this way anyway, I usually do this instead of actively trying to pivot f-tilt as I don't like dashattacking into people if my timing was slightly off.

Pivotting out of dash info dump.

 

[-ACE-]

Also seeing frames is easy. ff a bair, you'll see like 8 fists if you focus. Melee is a cartoon flip book going at 60 pages per second, lol.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Wow I was literally saying the same **** Magus was with the resetting to neutral except I didn't go over pivot ftilt.

That **** on pivot ftilt is super useful. Once I have mastered that I will have some insane neutral shinanigans that will answer a lot of problems I've been to solve in certain matchups

 

[megacrusher9999]

No one is better under influence

 

[-ACE-]

No one is better under influence

Nice troll buddy. You hardly warrant a response.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

It depends on the person. I play like absolute **** when I'm high. But when I'm tripping I play pretty well. I went to a tournament once while tripping and placed like how I usually placed. Didn't really play any better or worse, just different. I don't think I can describe it lol. When I'm drunk I'm either terrible or amazing. There's no in-between. I just get really aggressive and it either works out really well for me or I fall flat on my face.

Real talk, you shouldn't play while ****ed up too much. You don't want to grow a dependency on substances (as silly as that sounds) to play well. Just make sure you know what states you can play well in and avoid the ones you know you can't and you'll be fine. Like I REALLY tried hard to learn to play well while stoned, but I just couldn't do it. I'm the type of person that spaces out when I'm stoned, and it just doesn't work for smash. I've officially given it up. Which sucks, because ****ing everyone and their mom is smoking at tournaments lol.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

But adderall tho. That's the good stuff *licks lips*

 

[-ACE-]

On addy, no need to focus.... details just jump at you.

 

[-ACE-]

On the real though, someone should make a Ganon-specific magus post compilation thread. His advice was metagame-advancing **** and he was often ignored (I feel your pain magus LOL). Every time I re-read a few of his old posts I'm glad I did.

 

[Tribulation]

oh god wtf you've changed so much hahaha, can't wait to see you at evo. we all care about your progress here.

k so i'm watching now, gonna add what i see as it comes

up throw them and they DI behind? don't dash attack, do bair. if they're gonna land on platform, be ready to cover the whole platform with fair or bair.

https://youtu.be/3m_swE2jjYY?t=2m25s you do up throw, but do you know what would have happened if you did down throw? two things would have happened 1. he would have DI'd behind you which is a free angled down ftilt and at that percent would have likely led up to a kill 2. he DIs forward or neutral which is an easy regrab. in the moment that you know/feel that he will DI behind in most situations, you can do up throw instead of dthrow which will lead into followups on the platforms.

if you're going to be shield grabbing falco, you need to be ASDI'ing away while falco is pressuring your shield.

learn to shield drop. why? look at https://youtu.be/3m_swE2jjYY?t=3m10s and tell me how things would have been different if you implemented a defensive OR even an aggressive shield drop option.

https://youtu.be/3m_swE2jjYY?t=4m25s what are some other options that you think you could have used there? jab is one of them, and likely the best in situations where falco is using up b above the ledge at that angle. remember this.

amazing up smash to end game 2, remember that wait/option vs floaty characters, especially vs peach.

https://youtu.be/3m_swE2jjYY?t=7m38s opt for up air spike in this situation.

gotta stop critique for now, but overall i'm very very impressed with your improvements. ****'s crazy. work on your followups, edgeguarding, and knowing which throws to use and when.

I appreciate this. Some of these things I know, but knowing about it and doing it in a match are two different things. Like I know how to shield drop, ASDI, and crouch canceling, but I've been finding it hard to do it in the moment. I'm still learning percents where what throw is best and how to respond to the DI. Right now I'm putting most of my effort into edgeguarding better, but I never seem to get the timing right on the jab and I can only seem to get the up air spike when I get time to prepare for it. I just need to keep practicing it I suppose though.

Also, it makes me happy to know that I have improved enough to impress you.

 

[Renth]

As usual.. I'll be back when drug talk is over and melee chat begins.

 

[megacrusher9999]

I agree renth I feel the second hand smoke just from reading. Can you please notify me when it is over?

 

[Divinokage]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL65IMg9w1B_gyH8yuKzQnZzE99ICAyZE5 Videos from yesterday. Feels good to wreck Sheik so much. ^_^

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I appreciate this. Some of these things I know, but knowing about it and doing it in a match are two different things. Like I know how to shield drop, ASDI, and crouch canceling, but I've been finding it hard to do it in the moment. I'm still learning percents where what throw is best and how to respond to the DI. Right now I'm putting most of my effort into edgeguarding better, but I never seem to get the timing right on the jab and I can only seem to get the up air spike when I get time to prepare for it. I just need to keep practicing it I suppose though.

Also, it makes me happy to know that I have improved enough to impress you.

https://twitter.com/EikelmannRUS/status/615776553801101312

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

SPARK IT UP @ Renth :D

 

[X WaNtEd X]

As usual.. I'll be back when drug talk is over and melee chat begins.

>intense discussion over pivots occurs
>literally makes 5 minute video just for the discussion
>discussion is interrupted briefly over recreational drug discussion
>melee chat quickly resumes

 

[-ACE-]

>intense discussion over pivots occurs
>literally makes 5 minute video just for the discussion
>discussion is interrupted briefly over recreational drug discussion
>melee chat quickly resumes

Stay on topic.

http://smashboards.com/threads/im-sexy.223591/

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I agree. Let's talk about the correlation between sexiness and Ganon.

 

[megacrusher9999]

When sheikh is holding shield and I pressure with short hop punch I get grabbed sometimes even if I l cancel so I started doing it with back air instead to pivot jab or roll buffer. It s safer.

 

[-ACE-]

When sheikh is holding shield and I pressure with short hop punch I get grabbed sometimes even if I l cancel so I started doing it with back air instead to pivot jab or roll buffer. It s safer.

Why pressure her shield (and chance getting bodied) when you can tomahawk and take her stock? #1 punish vs sheik is grab son.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I had a great practice session today. Now I can get bair out on pokemon and yoshi from the bottom platform out of a running shield drop that I fast fall. I started practicing doing the running shield drop with fair on dream land and I can get it out sometimes in time. A few more practice sessions and I'll have that one down. Then it's bf and parts of fod.

I also got my left side pivots a lot more consistent out of dash. And then I started practicing pivot ftilt. I do it really slow right now. Like I'll input the pivot and then do the ftilt separately after as fast as I can. This feels almost as hard as when I first taught myself shield drops. It might take awhile :/

But anyway, I don't know about always doing tomahawks. Ganon/falcon have sort of fast grabs, but Sheik can just stuff with your grab with something oos if she sees it coming. She can't really do that to your jab or ftilt if you space them well. You gotta pressure her shield safely to condition her to stay in her shield and then tomahawk, I think.

 

[-ACE-]

True but if she's clearly the expecting the aerial there's a chance. The reward from grab is too big to overlook.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

After all these years, this is still one of my all time favorite things.

On a more related note, my grab game kinda sucks, which is funny because my up-b game is on point. I'm working really hard on it though and I seem to be landing a lot more grabs from stuff like tomahawks and fair on shield --> grab.

How do you guys usually get your grabs? The obvious dash dance into grab is classic and still works... Too bad ganon doesn't have anything remotely resembling a good dash dance lol so that **** is tricky.

@spider_sense ? You get some of the most baller grabs. What's your secret?
Dave, kage, anyone really, what sort of tricks and mix ups / set ups do you recommend here?

And Dave, that is some crucial info from Magus right there. Thanks for posting that, that's gonna make pivoting ftilt 10000000X easier.

 

[Divinokage]

Damn my current EVO pool has Blea, Kira and Abu. Gonna be interesting indeed.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

AHow do you guys usually get your grabs? The obvious dash dance into grab is classic and still works

CC grabs are now a big part of my game. If you're fast enough, you can ASDI hits that you normally couldn't CC grab (as in you would be hit too far away for the grab hitbox to connect even if you could cc said move or you would be stuck in too much hitstun because of multiple hitboxes, such is the case with fox's dair) in a direction so that the grab hitbox will hit. That's the **** I'm trying to perfect right now.

The way I've been getting my grabs for awhile has been through wavelanding into grabs. I'll do a few tilts/jabs from waveland and then start grabbing when they start shielding.

And of course, I'll sometimes grab when I'm set up to punish lag, like a Marth landing on stage or something. I noticed one trend that people are doing these days to edgeguard Falcon is to just grab the ledge, let him land right next to you by the ledge, ledgehop/dash grab, uthrow him onto the platform, aerial.

 

[Coastward]

so im gonna make another combi video, but this time i wanna put everyone in.

so if everyone can link me a **** ton of combos of them or stuff i could use, thatd be great.

i really wanna make this hugeeee.

 

[Divinokage]

so im gonna make another combi video, but this time i wanna put everyone in.

so if everyone can link me a **** ton of combos of them or stuff i could use, thatd be great.

i really wanna make this hugeeee.

I may have a few things from the weekly. ^_^

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

so im gonna make another combi video, but this time i wanna put everyone in.

so if everyone can link me a **** ton of combos of them or stuff i could use, thatd be great.

i really wanna make this hugeeee.

idk if I have any combos per se but I should have at least one thing that could fit in a combo video

I'll look through the 5 or w/e videos of me that exist after dinner tonight and send you some timestamps

 

[PseudoTurtle]

**** YES Kage vs. Blea! I've been waiting on that match for quite some time now. My bracket has a bunch of no-names in it, idk how Kage got stuck with Blea, Kira, and prince abu lolololol. They'll probably change it.

But, as it stands, tm and I are in the same pool on opposite sides of the bracket. GOTCHU

...Though there is a Mexican player in there and, if history is a good indicator, he is more than likely an overly technical fox main that probably goes for shine spikes more than he has to. Luckily, he's stuck on tm's side of the bracket

edit: @ Coastward I got you. Gimme a little bit of time and I'll send some **** your way.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Yeah I'm also really interested to see how Kage handles Blea after all the **** talk I've seen here. I hope they keep them together in that pool. Hopefully they'll move Kira to a different pool.

@ Coastward I'll be sending you a PM with a few select combos I have from recordings.

 

[Divinokage]

**** YES Kage vs. Blea! I've been waiting on that match for quite some time now. My bracket has a bunch of no-names in it, idk how Kage got stuck with Blea, Kira, and prince abu lolololol. They'll probably change it.

But, as it stands, tm and I are in the same pool on opposite sides of the bracket. GOTCHU

...Though there is a Mexican player in there and, if history is a good indicator, he is more than likely an overly technical fox main that probably goes for shine spikes more than he has to. Luckily, he's stuck on tm's side of the bracket

edit: @ Coastward I got you. Gimme a little bit of time and I'll send some **** your way.

Obviously its going to be changed, theres some pools with 1 top player while others have 4 of them even 5. lol

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@ Coastward I'll be looking through the footage that I got recorded likely tomorrow and see if there's any goodies in there of my Ganon

 

[Coastward]

if anyone can help me find older stuff from people like linguini and tipman thatd be cool too.

@ Renth @spider_sense @Bizzarro Flame @ -ACE- send me some **** too

 

[-ACE-]

Getting grabs gets easier as your zoning/neutral game gets better. You just find yourself in more situations you can grab because your neutral game promoted such scenarios to occur.

Like.....
sneaking up on them (let's say wL to shield) and having an aerial hit sooner, or maybe you shield DI the hit away and grab or even cc grab.

or, on the other hand, you are farther away than their approach can reach, and you get the free jab/tilt/grab.

Also....
Empty SH perfect wL is still a great grab-getter even in today's meta. Requires a read usually, so use it in matchups where grabs yield more profit.

Sniff out rolls with brief dash dancing and grab.

Shield DI semi-spaced approaches inward and grab (marth fair)

Grab out of stomp, dsmash, side-b.

Plat wL grab when they expect the uair

Grab when they know you'll jab

etc

Yeah I'm also really interested to see how Kage handles Blea after all the **** talk I've seen here. I hope they keep them together in that pool. Hopefully they'll move Kira to a different pool.

@ Coastward I'll be sending you a PM with a few select combos I have from recordings.

Blea has been off his game lately big time. He has is reasons. I'll be trying to bring his fire back shortly.

@ Coastward I can send you a few things but nothing great lol.